[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog Program

Wed Mar 20 05:18:31 UTC 2013

Peter and others,

    Why don't you guys get together to sign a petition to the NFB or
all of these seeing eye or guide dog schools then? I don't know nearly
enough about this movement of yours just seems like not much gets done
individually with blind people. Everyone feels like their advocacy
group represents then that simply isn't the case. I honestly feel this
way with the ACB and NFB on working together not apart of one another
for trading information and the alike as well.

On 3/19/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> There are other options besides the established guide dog schools.
> training your own guide dog is an option.  It's also possible to have a
> dog trained privately by a trainer for you.
>
> Both of these options cost more and are more labor intensive than going
> through an established guide dog program.  They do have their benefits
> though.  The big one is that you are in charge all the way through and
> you make all the decisions about how things are done.  the down side is
> that you are in charge all the way through and have to make all the
> decisions. *smile*
>
> Julie
>
>
> On 3/19/2013 1:06 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>> Hello Danielle and everyone,
>>
>>      Even The Seeing Eye's policies are no longer up to my expectations
>> of
>> how a guide dog program should treat its blind students and alumni. I have
>> a
>> problem with an organization that still believes that guide dog puppy
>> raisers and their blind graduates are incapable of managing their own
>> desires to communicate with each other and the graduates of such programs
>> buy in to this kind of nonsense! SE along with many other guide dog
>> programs
>> have yet to include blind persons in their training departments as guide
>> dog
>> trainers and class instructors. And there's those awful long periods of
>> down-time!Someone like myself would fail miserably at a course in inmate
>> 101. I could not stand the confinement. Guide dog programs need to give
>> all
>> students in training opportunities to leave the school grounds with their
>> dogs on their own to reinforce the idea that they can travel anywhere any
>> time with their dogs and can do it with absolute confidence. I was
>> fortunate
>> to receive in-home training when I received Johnny in 2007 thank God! At
>> home I was able to be with my wife and work on the computer and could
>> work
>> Johnny in our immediate area prior to completion of the training. I was
>> able
>> to go grocery shopping and a few other places prior to termination of the
>> training and knew in my heart that Johnny and I were a great team. This
>> is
>> the kind of belief that guide dog programs need to instill in their
>> students
>> before they leave for home. One can bond just as easily visiting Ground
>> 0,
>> or shopping in downtown Morristown by themselves or with other class
>> members
>> rather than sitting around the school dorm twiddling their thumbs, having
>> fantasies about falling in love with girls from other schools for the
>> blind
>> that they know from Eve and who probably wouldn't be interested anyway.
>> This
>> is what I call a waist of time and public contributions.
>>
>>      The use of sleep shades by guide dog programs for students in
>> training
>> is next to nonexistent. None of them base their programs on the
>> Structured-Discovery Model nor do they operate them based on the NFB's
>> philosophy. But the saddest thing of all is that to the best of my
>> knowledge
>> none of our guide dog programs    has signed on to the NFB's Guide Dog
>> User's Bill of Rights and graduates of these programs are not doing
>> enough
>> to persuade them to do so. They make much ado over the need to protect
>> the
>> welfare of their dogs but fail to recognize that the blind persons they
>> serve are consumers and also have rights to be honored and expectations
>> these programs should meet and exceed. Given the state of our guide dog
>> programs it's not likely that I'll seek another dog unless drastic
>> changes
>> in the way guide dog programs conduct their training and treat consumers
>> of
>> their services occur. I know other blind people who felt the same way and
>> decided not to obtain replacement dogs.
>>
>>      It's for this reason that I and I'm sure others would like to see
>> the
>> NFB create its own guide dog program. Before going on some history is in
>> order. Those familiar with the history of The Seeing Eye know that the
>> school began in 1929 the same year the stock market crashed plunging our
>> nation in to the Great Depression of the 1930s. Yet despite the bleak
>> economic outlook of those years The Seeing Eye was able to raise the
>> capital
>> it needed to construct training and residential facilities and operate
>> its
>> programs. It was a classic case of when the going got tough the tough got
>> going and the school thrived despite the state of the U.S. economy in the
>> 1930s.
>>
>>      The NFB has developed alternatives to just about every type of
>> program
>> or service a blind person would want so why not a federation-run guide
>> dog
>> program? Of course it wouldn't be open for business next week, but the
>> ball
>> must begin rolling somewhere. Our Jernigan Institute took a number of
>> years
>> to construct and a capital campaign was needed to raise the needed funds
>> for
>> its construction and startup. The creation of an NFB guide dog program
>> would
>> be no different. If there are those wishing to undertake such a program
>> without taking funds away from our other programs and activities their
>> efforts should be supported and encouraged.
>>
>>      On numerous occasions I've suggested to the president of the
>> National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users and to others that this subject be given
>> air
>> time during the national convention but have repeatedly been told that
>> the
>> guide dog programs we now have meet our needs just fine. My answer to
>> such
>> rubbish is "By whose standards?"Certainly not mine! We're tired of our
>> requests for discussion of the establishment of an NFB guide dog program
>> during our national convention falling on deaf ears!I'd like to be proven
>> wrong this summer.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Danielle Antoine"<singingmywayin at gmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>>
>>
>> Peter, Amen and Hallelujah! the seeing Eye's policies just fit my
>> personal philosophy. It is why after doing much extensive research and
>> consideration I always go back to TSE! I view the ownership and
>> mandatory follow-ups by most of the schools as degrading and akin to
>> workshop pay. something is wrong with this lack of trust in in the
>> quality they put out. graduates should be treated as the grown adults
>> they are not as grade-schoolers where ththey must be checked up on and
>>   graded so to speak. TSE never ever checks up on its grad and they
>> only come when and if you ever need them....providing honest and fair
>> assessments. Only way I'll ever go anywhere else is if they should
>> ever refuse me service or my health requirements dictate.
>>
>> Sometimes, circumstances beyond our control interferes with a team and
>> shortens the working relationship and that should be taken into
>> consideration by the schools retaining ownership. JMO and personal
>> experience!
>>
>> On 12/16/12, Mike Freeman<k7uij at panix.com>  wrote:
>>> Money money money!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Diane
>>> Graves
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:13 AM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>>>
>>> Now that would be a good idea. After all, we have a strong O&M program
>>> run
>>> by our own for cane users. Why *not* have a guide dog program? I like
>>> that
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> Diane Graves
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>>> Donahue
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:49 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>>>
>>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>>
>>>      I'm increasingly becoming convinced that some of this
>>> misunderstanding
>>> is being generated by our own guide dog users and not just those outside
>>> the
>>> federation. This came clear to me judging from the reactions of those
>>> attending this year's NAGDU Meeting in Dallas last summer concerning
>>> several
>>> issues being discussed.
>>>      For years the NFB has been trying to convince guide dog schools to
>>> end
>>> the practice of retaining ownership of their dogs and adopt a policy
>>> similar
>>> to that of The Seeing Eye. Put simply as Lucas Frank said last summer
>>> "We
>>> have no (Ownership policy)! When students complete training they leave
>>> the
>>> school with their dog and it is there's."We also know that a number of
>>> schools that retain ownership have wrongfully taken dogs from their
>>> handlers
>>> with no explaination of why. We just picketted Amazon last Wednesday.
>>> I'll
>>> retract this belief concerning the use of guide dogs when NAGDU
>>> organizes
>>> pickets of guide dog programs that wrongfully take dogs from their blind
>>> handlers to bring public awareness to this shabby practice.
>>>
>>>          Likewise I worked with several NAGDU Members to craft a "Guide
>>> Dog
>>> consumer Bill of Rights." During the NAGDU meeting schools at the
>>> convention
>>> were asked to indicate whether or not they would "Sign on" and recognize
>>> the
>>> rights of the blind consumers they serve. Some refused to comment.
>>> Others
>>> side-stepped the issue all together and still others wanted to
>>> "Negotiate."
>>>
>>> I shure hope we don't go down the negotiation path and allow these
>>> outfits
>>> to water down this document. As far as I know not one guide dog program
>>> has
>>> signed on to the Guide Dog Consumer Bill of Rights.
>>>
>>>      Going back to the matter of ownership retention when Marion
>>> Gwizdala
>>> and
>>> a few others spoke out strongly against the beliefs of guide dog
>>> programs
>>> that ownership was necessary pittifully few in attendence applauded. Yet
>>> these same people joind others to help bring the house down when it came
>>> to
>>> cheering on those that spoke in opposition to the continued payment of
>>> subminamum wages to blind shop workers! If you asked me something is
>>> very
>>> wrong with that picture!
>>>
>>>      If the NFB was more agressive in addressing these matters we would
>>> be
>>> more visible and people would know that we do indeed recognize one's
>>> choice
>>> to use a guide dog for independent travel and are a force in the affairs
>>> of
>>> guide dog users. If folks find this offensive I'll gladly retrack what I
>>> said when the following conditions are met:
>>>
>>> 1. Greater publicity is given to the practice of ownership retention of
>>> dogs
>>> by guide dog schools.
>>> 2. All schools recognize the NFB'S Guide Dog Consumer Bill of Rights as
>>> it
>>> was originally drafted.
>>> 3. More is done to urge all guide dog programs to employ blind persons
>>> as
>>> guide dog trainers and class instructors.
>>> 4. (This is the big one.) We entertain discussion concerning the NFB'S
>>> establishing its own guide dog program; a program operated by guide dog
>>> users for guide dog users!
>>>
>>>      I have repeatedly suggested such a discussion to President
>>> Gwizddala
>>> but
>>> to date it has not been an item for discussion during the NAGDU Meeting.
>>>
>>>      If there are still folks that think we're anty guide dog we should
>>> look
>>> within our organization to see if there are actions and lack of actions
>>> that
>>> are still perpetuating this myth. Persuing more agressive solutions to
>>> the
>>> issues I've discussed above could put us further down the road to ending
>>> this misunderstanding. All the best.
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Cordially,
Peter Q Wolfe, BA
cum laude Auburn University
e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
"If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
Peter Q Wolfe
"Stand up for your rights"
Bob Marley