[Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup

Peter Donahue pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
Thu Mar 21 22:50:58 UTC 2013 

Hello Kelby and everyone,

    The retention of ownership, the school's refusal to employ blind persons 
in its training department (Something GDB has attempted to change), being 
confined to the grounds in off hours, not being permitted to work the dog 
off campus prior to graduation even during organized trips, being separated 
from my wife during meals (We both attempted to train in the same class in 
1986 but Mary did not complete the training through no fault of GDB),and 
being bullied and harassed by other students when these deficiencies in the 
program were pointed out to school staff. But the most damming issue of all 
is the unwillingness of NFB guide dog users to fight the continued use of 
ownership retention by guide dog schools and other guide dog 
training-related issues with the same enthusiasm as that being exerted to 
end the payment of subminamum  wages to blind shop workers. If there's an 
inconsistency in how we address issues we're on record of opposing such as 
the retention of ownership by guide dog schools (Since 1976 I should add.) 
We might not like the organization's stand on a particular issue but if 
we're going to be members of this organization we're bound by its policies 
and positions taken on matters addressed during our national convention. 
There are several resolutions that address the guide dog ownership issue and 
the schools employing blind training staff. Resolution 1986-30 puts us on 
record of supporting the training and employment of blind guide dog trainers 
and class instructors. The author of that resolution is writing this 
message. Hardly anything has changed in this respect since the adoption of 
this resolution. This is all the more the need for serious consideration 
being given to creating an NFB guide dog program. Hope this answers some of 
your questions. Now to enjoy Bach's Goldberg Variations and have dinner with 
the wife.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup


What left "much to be desired"? I'm honestly curious, as I usually
bristle at patronization or paternalism, and i didn't feel that I
encountered it.



On 3/21/13, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> Maybe by your standards but not by everyone's. This comes from someone who
> once had a guide dog from GDB. Their dogs were well-trained but the way 
> they
>
> treated their students left much to be desired. Again this comes from one
> with direct experience with that school. At least SE is more progressive
> with how it treats its students and alumni. Now imagine how much better 
> the
>
> blind themselves could do at operating a guide dog program.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelby Carlson" <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
>
> I'll weigh in a little on this discussion, as I am a new dog user
> and a member of several guide dog lists.
>
> I work with Guide Dogs for the Blind, and I think their ownership
> policy is quite reasonable.  As someone who cares a great deal
> about these dogs, I think this is a good step to ensure that the
> dogs are well cared for and being used.  Guide Dogs hast strict
> standards of how its dogs are to be handled; I can say from
> personal experience that training is rigorous and expectations
> are high.  I can say with equal candor that it is a good thing
> most Guide Dog schools cover the costs, as it would be extremely
> difficult for an individual blind person to do it themselves.  I
> certainly never felt like a "charity case" at Guide Dogs, nor did
> I feel that my blindness was portrayed negatively.  Quite the
> contrary: getting a guide dog was one step in empowerment and
> independence for me, and that is how they treat it.  I have seen
> what seems to me to be a certain anti-guide dog sentiment in the
> NFB sometimes, and it makes me uncomfortable as my school and my
> dog have been great sources of help, encouragement and improved
> independence.
>
> Kelby
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:59:20 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
> Oh,  Not really.  I don't have that many pieces of exercise
> equipment at my
> house, and I am in good shape.   I'm not saying they shouldn't
> have it, but
> they could improvise.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Julie J.
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:34 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
> I wasn't talking about numerous buildings, fancy food and
> expensive
> equipment for the dogs.  I meant that stuff was for the people.
> Sure it's
> nice to have a computer room, exercise equipment, a garden with
> manicured
> paths, food prepared by a chef and all the other perks, but are
> those things
> necessary?  I don't think they are.
>
> Julie
> On 3/20/2013 11:04 AM, justin williams wrote:
>  No, pamper the dogs.  They work hard and they deserve it.  I
> like the
>  other stuff you said though.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Julie J.
>  Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:08 AM
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
>  I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I
> would
>  like to see a more in depth background investigation of the
> blind
>  applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more
> references,
>  ask the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place
>  children into homes surely we can figure out a way to more
> accurately
>  know what sort of situation the dog will be placed into.
> Secondly, I
>  think there are already agencies in place for dealing with
> animal
>  abuse, the police and animal control.  I don't see any reason
> why
>  these agencies can't be used in cases of neglect or abuse.
>
>  In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
> the
>  dog in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid
> point.  We
>  have to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the
> Seeing
>  Eye's concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost
> had
>  increased over the years with the cost of living.  It has been
> $150
>  since the beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the
> right
>  year.  $150 was a very different sum of money then and now.
>
>  I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
>  substantially lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at
> the
>  various guide dog programs and how much each claims it costs to
> train
>  a dog, the numbers vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy
> food,
>  excessive equipment and other niceties cost money.
>
>  Julie
>
>
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