[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Kelby Carlson kelbycarlson at gmail.com
Fri Mar 22 04:09:07 UTC 2013


I keep hearing this in NFB literature and from 
federationists-that my local training simply must have been far, 
far inferior to anything the NFB has.  I have as of yet seen no 
actual compelling evidence for this claim, and no one I know well 
in the NFB has offered me convincing reasons as to why the 
training I have is bad.  (Those who don't know me can't offer any 
reasons, as they don't know my context.) If NFB mobility is so 
wonderful, I wish they would allow people interested to pay for a 
little instruction to get a sense of their methodology in real 
space time rather than forcing people to commit to six to nine 
months.

Kelby



 ----- Original Message -----
From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:56:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Well we all need good mobility skills.  A dog is not a 
replacement for mobility skills.  Whether you use a cane, sighted 
guide, or a guide dog.
If you haven't been to an NFB School over the training you get 
locally then you don't know what you are missing.
Never going to them myself.  I have seen what someone with no 
knowledge of any of the services or very little in there own 
areas, and come back from our schools with the confidence and the 
mobility and the other services that are given there.
If NFB is interested in forming a guide dog school on the NFB's 
philosophy then it comes with the first steps in mobility and 
then a dog.  I have not been blind all my life.  I lost my vision 
as an adult, and I learned the mobility and cane skills, my dog 
doesn't know when to cross the street, I have to give him the 
direction to do so.
Know if I am mistaken in what is being said, I am the first to 
mention when I am wrong, but there will be a day that we will 
either not want to take our dogs places, by our own choice, or in 
between a dog, or whatever the issues are.  That I know the 
skills to get me where I want to go whether it is with my Maxx or 
not.
Have a great night all.
Take care and god bless.
Whatever decision is met and decided should be done with kindness 
to one another; and with the philosophy of the great 
organization.
Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel & Tourism

Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible 
Travel Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria, 
Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012 
Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST - 
#1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National 
Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser 
for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other 
resources.  Any vacation package booked between November 6 
2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than 
12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.  
Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families 
and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the 
affiliate as well.  You do not need to be a member of the 
NFB.org, just book through us.


 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:18:49 -0500
 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible 
Scenario

 I'll echo what Cindysaid.  There isno way I would give up that
 much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
 purpose of getting a dog.  ZPeter said, I would go somewhere 
else
 straightaway.

 Kelby



  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
 To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible 
Scenario

 When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
 real lack of
 quality training for blind people.  I don't really think that's
 the case
 with guide schools.  There are some schools which do things
 differently from
 others.  But, there are people who prefer one approach over
 another.  I
 don't really think that NFB needs to get involved with guide dog
 training.

 As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the 
nine
 month NFB
 center training, first, this will severely limit the number of
 people
 choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog school, should
 one be
 started.  I don't know to many people who can give up a year of
 their life
 to get a guide dog.

 Cindy

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Peter Donahue
 Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

 Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
     Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
 past so she
 knows where I'm coming from.  In line with her comments below 
I'd
 like to
 suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:

         Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
 centers for
 blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for
 housing
 students in training to be constructed.  Hold on folks.  
Students
 wishing to
 obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
 complete the
 6-9 month program at one of the centers.  During the student's
 "Bootcamp
 training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the
 student
 inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background
 information on the
 applicant to the guide dog unit.  Unlike current guide dog
 programs that must
 rely on references and other information that may be true or
 false the NFB
 guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information
 gathered for
 them by the training center and can be assured that the 
applicant
 is a
 suitable candidate for a dog.

     This approach will also assure the guide dog program that 
the
 student is
 up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring
 them to the
 use of a dog.  Students that successfully complete the cane
 travel component
 of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
 This
 approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
 other
 aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time
 students
 often experience when at guide dog training facilities.

     Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
 to wear
 sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and
 participating
 in designated center activities.  Like students who undergo cane
 travel
 instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be
 encouraged to
 travel on their own prior to completion of the training.  In the
 beginning
 they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog
 user/trainer but would
 be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on
 their own
 using their dogs.

     As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
 operate
 similar to those of current guide dog programs.  The program
 would operate
 its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from
 donations.  The usual
 period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much
 different
 than is done by current guide dog programs.  The dogs would
 return for a
 period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind
 person.  Once the
 dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they
 along with an
 instructor would be sent to the center where the student
 receiving the dog
 will be trained.  Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could
 operate from
 one of our centers.  Those wishing to obtain dogs once their
 "Bootcamp"
 training is complete would transfer to that center for training
 with the
 dog.  Using all ready existing facilities to house students in
 training is
 one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.

     The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
 guide dog
 program could work but I'm sure others would have additional
 ideas.  If it's
 to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
 participants.  All the best.

 Peter Donahue




 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
 To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup


 I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I
 would
 like to see a more in depth background investigation of the 
blind
 applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more
 references, ask
 the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place
 children
 into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately 
know
 what
 sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I 
think
 there
 are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the
 police
 and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies
 can't be
 used in cases of neglect or abuse.

 In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
 the dog
 in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.  
We
 have
 to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing
 Eye's
 concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had
 increased
 over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since
 the
 beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.
 $150
 was a very different sum of money then and now.

 I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
 substantially
 lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various
 guide dog
 programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the
 numbers
 vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive
 equipment and
 other niceties cost money.

 Julie


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