[Blindtlk] Response to Peter Donahue

Kelby Carlson kelbycarlson at gmail.com
Fri Mar 22 13:14:00 UTC 2013 

Marion,

As someone on the sidelines, I appreciate your response.  As a 
very happy graduate of GDB, I am just curious to know which 
programs you consider closest to the NFB philosophy.  I will also 
look over the bill of rights you've attached with interest!

Kind regards,

Kelby



 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:04:17 -0400
Subject: [Blindtlk] Response to Peter Donahue

Peter,
    It is very easy to criticize what our organization is not 
doing to meet
our individual expectations while ignoring the many initiatives 
that are
making a global difference.  As a case in point, I submit to you 
our Guide
Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights that our membership passed 
unanimously in 2011
that is attached to this message.  We are making progress on 
these issues,
albeit not the speed at which you expect us to make.  It is very 
easy to
criticize our decisions from the sidelines.  It is far more 
difficult to roll
up one's sleeves and get in the trenches to remove the 
barricades.
    As for an NFB-style guide dog training program, I have been 
hearing of
your desire to create this program for several years.  What have 
you done to
make this a reality? Have you formed the corporate structure to 
raise the
funds to build it? Have you even written a business plan to guide 
its
creation? It seems to me your desire is to have someone else do 
the work and
they, again, are not meeting this expectation.  I believe there 
are a couple
of existing programs that are very close to what I would envision 
from such
a program and, rather than reinventing the wheel, I prefer to 
work with the
currently existing pretty good wheel to make it the really great 
wheel.
Leveraging the structure that is already in place is so much more 
efficient!
    Though there is not - and never will be - a perfect guide dog 
training
program, we are shifting the paradigm and getting really close to 
the
critical mass of consciousness that will create the shift very 
soon! Rather
than being so quick to criticize, perhaps it would be good to 
join us in
unity of purpose and action.  Angry rhetoric and absolutistic 
thinking
neither welcomes dialogue nor encourages participation.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
National Federation of the Blind
813-626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG




----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:29 PM
Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School


 Hello Cheryl and everyone,

    I've discussed this with Marion privately and suggested that 
an item
 concerning the creation of an NFB-run guide dog program be put 
on the
 NAGDU
 agenda to no avail.  I was at last year's NAGDU Meeting and was 
very
 disgusted with the reaction of the audience when Marion 
addressed the
 group
 concerning the continued practice of ownership retention by 
guide dog
 programs.  Few if anyone applauded his remarks and there was 
hardly any
 call
 for a more aggressive response to ending this practice.  If 
things have
 changed when I see picket lines go up in front of the grounds of 
guide dog
 schools that still retain ownership of the dogs it places with 
its blind
 students than I'll know there is a new spirit of concerted 
action within
 NAGDU.  I'll be watching the Braille Monitor for this year's 
NAGDU Agenda
 to
 see what new item will be included or if it's going to be the
 same-old-same-old!

 Peter Donahue


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
 To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup


 The only way any of this is going to happen is to come to 
national
 convention and come to the NAGDU meeting and work on it 
together.  We are
 an
 organization, and we should all work together, and if that 
doesn't work
 then
 you get the people in that division that will do it.

 Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
 Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible 
Travel
 Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
 
Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
 Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
 Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST 
-
 #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National 
Federation
 of
 the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
 http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources.  
Any
 vacation
 package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and 
vacation must
 be
 traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings 
will go to
 the
 affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches 
for families
 and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the 
affiliate
 as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just 
book through
 us.


 From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:04:07 -0400
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup

 No, pamper the dogs.  They work hard and they deserve it.  I 
like the
 other
 stuff you said though.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Julie J.
 Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:08 AM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup

 I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I 
would
 like to see a more in depth background investigation of the 
blind
 applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more 
references, ask
 the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place 
children
 into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately 
know what
 sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I 
think there
 are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the 
police
 and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies 
can't be
 used in cases of neglect or abuse.

 In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of 
the dog
 in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.  
We have
 to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing 
Eye's
 concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had 
increased
 over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since 
the
 beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.  
$150
 was a very different sum of money then and now.

 I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for 
substantially
 lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various 
guide dog
 programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the 
numbers
 vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive 
equipment and
 other niceties cost money.

 Julie


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