[Blindtlk] learning Jaws

Fri Mar 22 14:24:15 UTC 2013

Lloyd, David and others,

    Thanks for this comprehensive and well  thought out e-mail to my
original posting! This was the posting that I was looking for in the
federal government employment is concerned anyways. I guess learn more
aboutt my existing screen reader, then Jaws and have both not just
focus on just one right? I don't have any real work experience just am
theoritical not that easy to implement theoritical stuff without real
work experience. By the way, I've already worked in the federal
government in Small Business Administration in Federal Triangle
Square, Red Stone Arsonal and etc but words like Data Analysis" throw
me off. Sorry for taking up you guys time but all of this still
confuses me.

Thanks,
Peter

On 3/22/13, David Evans <drevans at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> David R. Evans
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 20, 2013, at 7:24 AM, "Lloyd Rasmussen" <lras at sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>> At the National Library Service we primarily use Window-Eyes.  Because of
>> the need to get software upgrades approved through a lengthy process, most
>> of us are still on version 7.2, but 7.5 is coming soon.  We use JAWS for
>> some testing, and some of our staff members are more comfortable with
>> JAWS. I could write a lot about how JAWS came to have such a dominant
>> position, but I don't have time; I've got to go to work.
>>
>> Note that it isn't that hard to learn another screen reader.
>> Historically, Window-Eyes tried to have you use keystrokes and procedures
>> that Microsoft and other programmers had established, while Freedom
>> Scientific wrote a lot of scripts in their proprietary language to
>> minimize the number of keystrokes needed to accomplish certain tasks.
>> Scripts are harder to maintain; programs can change and the script needs
>> to be rewritten to some extent.  This philosophical difference has
>> diminished somewhat over the last 5 years.
>>
>> If you do data analysis in Excel, both screen readers should be very
>> capable.  I don't think Access is fully covered by either screen reader,
>> and Access is becoming old technology.  With Version 8, Window-Eyes is
>> trying to catch up with JAWS in web access, which has become very
>> important on and off the job.  And both screen readers have problems with
>> dynamic web pages that don't follow the guidelines developed by the
>> Worldwide Web Consortium.
>>
>> You can learn a new screen reader.  Get moving.
>>
>> I gotta go!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Wolfe
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:27 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] learning Jaws
>>
>> David and others,
>>
>>
>>   I'm disappointed in the rehabilitation that I was given cause they
>> should have splayed the negatives and positives of all assistive
>> technology to me as a student not the way they did it. I do have a
>> pessimestic point of view and will get on with it but feel like I
>> could change something with the inefficient and broken system in
>> rehabilitation. Can someone give me an example of Window-Eyes really
>> being used in the federal government? Honestly the CAP program whether
>> at the Department of Defense, IRS, Social Security and other agencies
>> have all reported using Jaws not even a whisper about Window-Eyes. In
>> fact, I was in Washington D.C with nobody even knowing about
>> Window-Eyes at all just saying from direct experience.
>>
>>
>>   Lastly, I am going threw the training and it won't take a mobnth
>> or two out of my life just wish there were more clearly defined
>> guidelines. More comprehensive research needs to be done in a
>> consistant format with the human resources department at the OPM too.
>> I wish all positions would give standard applications that are used
>> and if they are capable to use with existing assistive tech by
>> volunteer surveys of blind workers too. It could take only six months
>> for such measures to be finished and it would aid everyone to do so.
>> I've already e-mailed OPM with no word back. I want change and maybe
>> I'll be taken more seriously by the establishment as a worker.
>>
>>
>> sincerely
>>
>> On 3/19/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>> I use JAWS, and like it, but I do know some people who prefer
>>> Window-Eyes.
>>> I suspect your learning more than one screenreader is probably not a bad
>>> thing because while agencies such as the Internal Revenue Service
>>> purchase
>>> JAWS, you just never know when you might run into an employer who has
>>> blind
>>>
>>> employees who use Window-Eyes, and you will be grateful that you know
>>> it.
>>> So, may I gently suggest that you try to think differently about having
>>> learned Window-Eyes in the past, and instead of looking at it as a
>>> possible
>>>
>>> set up for failure, try to imagine that not only will it not hurt, but
>>> it
>>> might benefit you.  Just my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Andrews
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:08 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] learning Jaws
>>>
>>> Window-Eyes is not as bad as you make it out to be.  It is a good
>>> screen reader -- just not the market leader.  Unless you have no
>>> aptitude for computers, learning a new screen reader isn't the end of
>>> the world.  Many of the concepts and principles are transferrable.
>>>
>>> Don't set yourself up for failure -- just get on with it.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 10:13 PM 3/18/2013, you wrote:
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    YIn hine sight, Jaws is the more powerful screen reader with
>>>> numerous functionality and script writing that GW-Micro simply doesn't
>>>> have. I wish that my Vocational Rehabilitation counselors would have
>>>> informed me of this reality not allow me to learn it on my own.
>>>> Instead the assistive technology instructors at E.H Gentry in Alabama
>>>> being experimental just allowed me to blindly use window-eyes.
>>>> Honestly I feel like I was setup for failure cause at that time that
>>>> hardly anybody thought that I'd graduate from community college and
>>>> ultimately get a scholarship from a major four year university like
>>>> Auburn. I agree with all of your statements David that Window-Eyes for
>>>> all intensive purposes is like Apple for personal usage and Jaws is
>>>> better for professional usages so W.E is just a toy at this point in
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    How long do you guys or gals think it will take to learn Jaws with
>>>> skills enough for a entry level in the federal government? I'm a
>>>> pretty quick learner like four months is all it took for me to learn
>>>> braille literary I and II with contractions and that is pretty fast
>>>> for Gentry. I'm also the first blind student to come threw their halls
>>>> to pass the GED the first time too! I
>>>> 'm looking at perhaps a week of evaluation, four weeks of Jaws and
>>>> food preparation training with a little outside orientation and
>>>> mobility and perhaps a three month temporary work paid experience with
>>>> a federal agency whether Social Security, Veterns Administration,
>>>> Department of Treasury or Labor that could perhaps lead to a perminent
>>>> job with those agencies! Any ideas or suggestions on the screen reader
>>>> or programs to consider or what Windows application to master with
>>>> Jaws would be nice. I don't know whether to try to push the braille
>>>> display or if just the IRS TSR or other jobs only require it or what
>>>> the emphasis should be on. This is my challenge being blind that I
>>>> don't know without any clear guidelines of the usajobs.gov job
>>>> descriptions of what applications they use. However, I do know
>>>> Microsoft word, Excell and internet explorer are musts in any federal
>>>> job.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> On 3/18/13, David Thomas <david.w.thomas at me.com> wrote:
>>>> > I believe that learning jaws is paramount to a blind persons success.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes there is window-eyes but that is not the most popular screen
>>>> > reader.
>>>> > Jaws is used in the government and in most businesses.
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> cum laude Auburn University
>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> Peter Q Wolfe
>> "Stand up for your rights"
>> Bob Marley
>>
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>> Dear all am I use jaws but I do know something about monopolizes well and
>> many of the key commands are identical or very similar and it's not that
>> hard to learn the two of them I'm also starting to learn another
>> screenwriter if for if you're serious about working to find many of the
>> key commands for joyless from underlies virtually identical and so is NVDA
>> NVDA is of course a free screen reader it's not as powerful as Chaucer
>> window eyes but it's it's there for many people can't really afford the
>> thousand dollars charge I hundred dollars for window are the best thing is
>> to just get on with it and learn what you need to know that's all I've I
>> could suggest to you don't worry about it just move on and let what you
>> cannot because the scriptwriters are not that hard to learn the difference
>> I think that expecting it
>
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-- 
Cordially,
Peter Q Wolfe, BA
cum laude Auburn University
e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
"If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
Peter Q Wolfe
"Stand up for your rights"
Bob Marley