[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Fri Mar 22 18:34:03 UTC 2013

Hello Cindy and everyone,

    Again I ask you by whose standard? I for one am no longer willing to 
have the opportunity to leave campus accompanied by my dog in exchange for 
giving up immediate ownership of that dog upon successful completion of the 
training nor am I willing to attend a program that offers immediate 
ownership of the dog upon graduation but denies me the opportunity to meet 
my dog's puppy raiser in order to learn about its up-bringing. I'm also 
tired of being told by our own guide dog users to choose a school that best 
meets my needs when none of the current programs meet all of my 
requirements.

    You say no one would want to attend a center program and undergo the 6-9 
month immersion program prior to training with the dog? Produce the survey 
and study results no hear-say allowed! Center graduates would have all ready 
met the immersion requirement and could go directly in to guide dog training 
as would replacement students. This is no different than what applicants for 
NOMC Certification must fulfill to obtain an NBPCB NOMC Certificate. It 
would most certainly be worth the immersion training if the NFB guide dog 
program would meet my expectations and further enhances my independence.

Peter Donahue

what of the ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a real lack of
quality training for blind people.  I don't really think that's the case
with guide schools.  There are some schools which do things differently from
others.  But, there are people who prefer one approach over another.  I
don't really think that NFB needs to get involved with guide dog training.

As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the nine month NFB
center training, first, this will severely limit the number of people
choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog school, should one be
started.  I don't know to many people who can give up a year of their life
to get a guide dog.

Cindy

-----Original Message----- 
From: Peter Donahue
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
    Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the past so she
knows where I'm coming from. In line with her comments below I'd like to
suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:

        Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment centers for
blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for housing
students in training to be constructed. Hold on folks. Students wishing to
obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to complete the
6-9 month program at one of the centers. During the student's "Bootcamp
training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the student
inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background information on the
applicant to the guide dog unit. Unlike current guide dog programs that must
rely on references and other information that may be true or false the NFB
guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information gathered for
them by the training center and can be assured that the applicant is a
suitable candidate for a dog.

    This approach will also assure the guide dog program that the student is
up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring them to the
use of a dog. Students that successfully complete the cane travel component
of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog. This
approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete other
aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time students
often experience when at guide dog training facilities.

    Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required to wear
sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and participating
in designated center activities. Like students who undergo cane travel
instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be encouraged to
travel on their own prior to completion of the training. In the beginning
they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog user/trainer but would
be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on their own
using their dogs.

    As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would operate
similar to those of current guide dog programs. The program would operate
its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from donations. The usual
period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much different
than is done by current guide dog programs. The dogs would return for a
period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind person. Once the
dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they along with an
instructor would be sent to the center where the student receiving the dog
will be trained. Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could operate from
one of our centers. Those wishing to obtain dogs once their "Bootcamp"
training is complete would transfer to that center for training with the
dog. Using all ready existing facilities to house students in training is
one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.

    The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run guide dog
program could work but I'm sure others would have additional ideas. If it's
to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
participants. All the best.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup

I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I would
like to see a more in depth background investigation of the blind
applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more references, ask
the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place children
into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately know what
sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I think there
are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the police
and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies can't be
used in cases of neglect or abuse.

In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of the dog
in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.  We have
to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing Eye's
concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had increased
over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since the
beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.  $150
was a very different sum of money then and now.

I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for substantially
lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various guide dog
programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the numbers
vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive equipment and
other niceties cost money.

Julie

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy425%40verizon.net

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com 