[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Fri Mar 22 20:46:33 UTC 2013

Peter, I understand the concern but I forsee some isues with having an NFB 
guide dog school. 1 Would national support such a project? 2 people 3 Would 
the school require the person to come there? Just my thoughts. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario


> Hello Kelby and everyone,
>
>    And that's fine. Just be willing to support the creation of a guide dog
> program for those willing to make those kind of commitments. I wouldn't be
> caught dead working in another sheltered workshop but this morning signed
> our petition to urge Congress to adopt the legislation to end the payment 
> of
> subminimum wages to blind shop workers.
>
> If people are happy with the guide dog program they attend more power to
> them but they have no right to stand in the way of those desiring a guide
> dog school that is more innovative and is willing to take guide dog 
> training
> and placement to a new dimension.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kelby Carlson" <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
>
> I'll echo what Cindysaid.  There isno way I would give up that
> much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
> purpose of getting a dog.  ZPeter said, I would go somewhere else
> straightaway.
>
> Kelby
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
> When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
> real lack of
> quality training for blind people.  I don't really think that's
> the case
> with guide schools.  There are some schools which do things
> differently from
> others.  But, there are people who prefer one approach over
> another.  I
> don't really think that NFB needs to get involved with guide dog
> training.
>
> As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the nine
> month NFB
> center training, first, this will severely limit the number of
> people
> choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog school, should
> one be
> started.  I don't know to many people who can give up a year of
> their life
> to get a guide dog.
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donahue
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
> Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
>    Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
> past so she
> knows where I'm coming from.  In line with her comments below I'd
> like to
> suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:
>
>        Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
> centers for
> blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for
> housing
> students in training to be constructed.  Hold on folks.  Students
> wishing to
> obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
> complete the
> 6-9 month program at one of the centers.  During the student's
> "Bootcamp
> training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the
> student
> inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background
> information on the
> applicant to the guide dog unit.  Unlike current guide dog
> programs that must
> rely on references and other information that may be true or
> false the NFB
> guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information
> gathered for
> them by the training center and can be assured that the applicant
> is a
> suitable candidate for a dog.
>
>    This approach will also assure the guide dog program that the
> student is
> up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring
> them to the
> use of a dog.  Students that successfully complete the cane
> travel component
> of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
> This
> approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
> other
> aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time
> students
> often experience when at guide dog training facilities.
>
>    Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
> to wear
> sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and
> participating
> in designated center activities.  Like students who undergo cane
> travel
> instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be
> encouraged to
> travel on their own prior to completion of the training.  In the
> beginning
> they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog
> user/trainer but would
> be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on
> their own
> using their dogs.
>
>    As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
> operate
> similar to those of current guide dog programs.  The program
> would operate
> its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from
> donations.  The usual
> period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much
> different
> than is done by current guide dog programs.  The dogs would
> return for a
> period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind
> person.  Once the
> dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they
> along with an
> instructor would be sent to the center where the student
> receiving the dog
> will be trained.  Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could
> operate from
> one of our centers.  Those wishing to obtain dogs once their
> "Bootcamp"
> training is complete would transfer to that center for training
> with the
> dog.  Using all ready existing facilities to house students in
> training is
> one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.
>
>    The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
> guide dog
> program could work but I'm sure others would have additional
> ideas.  If it's
> to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
> participants.  All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
>
> I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I
> would
> like to see a more in depth background investigation of the blind
> applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more
> references, ask
> the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place
> children
> into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately know
> what
> sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I think
> there
> are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the
> police
> and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies
> can't be
> used in cases of neglect or abuse.
>
> In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
> the dog
> in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.  We
> have
> to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing
> Eye's
> concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had
> increased
> over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since
> the
> beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.
> $150
> was a very different sum of money then and now.
>
> I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
> substantially
> lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various
> guide dog
> programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the
> numbers
> vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive
> equipment and
> other niceties cost money.
>
> Julie
>
>
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