[Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB Centers or Not?
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Sat Mar 23 00:08:54 UTC 2013
Kelby,
Thank you for these thoughts. Please feel free to give me a call at the
number below when you get a chance; I would like to discuss these
reservations with you, assuming you would be open to that, of course.
Chris
Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
Public Relations Committee
Maryland Association of Blind Students
Phone: (443) 547-2409
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of kelby
carlson
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 6:51 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB Centers or
Not?
My reservations are primarily attached to what I see as a "my way or the
highway" mentality. Despite protestations to the contrary, I get the
distinct feeling the NFB really believes it has found *the way* of
understanding and living with blindness. While the NFB's particular
methodology may work for some people--and has a good deal to commend
it--it's just not something I'm comfortable embracing. I also detect a kind
of insularity--a constant "looking in" if you will--that is unhelpful. It's
one thing to have a like-minded community, but I sometimes feel as if there
is a kind of feeling of superiority over sighted people--or even
non-Federationists! I have felt distinctly out of the loop and out of place
at some NFB events because I wasn't "plugged in", didn't know the lingo, and
didn't have the kind of personal history that most other federationists seem
to have. I cannot use these experiences to discourage anyone from joining
the NFB, nor do I wish to. As I said previously in this discussion, I am
uncomfortable with arguments based on anecdotal experience. This, then, is
not an argument for or against the NFB--it probably explains more about me
than the Federation. I hope that helps clarify a little.
On 3/22/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> A good soldier is not measured by how many bullets they fire, but by
> their dedication to the cause. And a warrior doesn't need to be on the
> battlefield to prove his worth to society.
>
> On 3/21/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Be a warrior. Be on the frong lines.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> kelby carlson
>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 5:52 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB Centers
>> or Not?
>>
>> My perspective is similar to Desiree's. I have every intention of
>> getting more involved in blindness advocacy in some way. However, I
>> have reservations about all of the organizations there are. (It's
>> totally possible those reservations will go away some day.) For now,
>> I want to figure out what's going to work best for me as a blind
>> person and do what I can individually to help others as well. There
>> is great value in collectivity--no mistake--I'm just at a place where
>> that isn't how I believe i can best function. I do hope to attend the
>> convention one of these years, though, and my mind could definitely
>> change!
>>
>> I know I may come across sounding antagonistic toward the Federation
>> at times. I need to work harder on moderating what I say and how I
>> say it. But believe me when I say I see a ton of value in the
>> Federation and a great deal that I like and agree with.
>> Fundamentally, my philosophy is very similar (I think) to the NFB
>> philosophy. How it is worked out practically is sometimes where the
rubber meets the road.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> While I won't speak for Peter, I'll give my own perspective on why I
>>> choose not to join the NFB or ACB.
>>> It's not about having a superiority complex. I don't consider myself
>>> to be better than anyone who is part of an organization. however, I
>>> like to draw my own conclusions, keeping politics and hidden agendas
>>> at arm's length. That's why my involvement only extends as far as
>>> listservs will take it. I feel that reading messages written by
>>> individual members is a much more unbiased, not to mention realistic
>>> view, of how the members of each organization live, work and
>>> interact in day-to-day life. At a meeting or convention, there's the
>>> expectation that one must carry themselves a certain way, say the
>>> right things, be inspired by all the right catch phrases. That's not
>>> limited to organizations for or of the blind, either, that's a fact
>>> of human nature. When you draw a large number of like-minded
>>> individuals together, and get them all to focus on one specific
>>> problem, proposition, or what have you, the people will either put
>>> their best or worst foot forward collectively. There is little time
>>> for individual thought processes, emotions, or personalities to take
>>> root and stand above the rest.
>>> I am, by nature, very reserved, maybe I could even be classified as
>>> a loner in a lot of ways. As I said, I think and draw conclusions
>>> best when there are no distractions, no bells and whistles so to
>>> speak. I take what is important to me, what fits in with my values
>>> and beliefs, and apply it to how I live my life. I don't honestly
>>> feel that I need to belong to anything to find my purpose, nor
>>> should I be told that I have no purpose unless I'm at the forefront
>>> of every high and low point in the organization's history. I am
>>> content with this, and I feel that I have a right to speak out about
>>> it, since it's a viewpoint which most who hold it would probably not
>>> be comfortable expressing for fear of being blamed and shamed.
>>>
>>> On 3/22/13, Gary Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello, Peter. I have not followed this thread, but I have looked
>>>> at one or two of your posts. I think it is a shame that you will
>>>> not join the American Council of the Blind or the National
>>>> Federation of the Blind.
>>>> I
>>>> suppose you believe there is some kind of superiority in being what
>>>> you might call an independent. Perhaps you are right, but my own
>>>> life experience indicates that having influence means joining with
>>>> others of like mind, exploring how you can understand them and get
>>>> them to understand you, and then acting together in a concerted way
>>>> to bring about the better world we all say we want. One popular
>>>> buzzword you can't help but hear if you listen to five minutes of
>>>> the news is the word infrastructure, but there is a lot to be said
>>>> for having a way to effect the change we want. For me this is the
>>>> National Federation of the Blind. For others it is the American
>>>> Council of the Blind. Though the organizations may disagree from
>>>> time to time, one thing most all of us share is that we have made a
>>>> commitment to blind people that extends beyond words. We are
>>>> willing to put our time, our energy, and our money into helping
>>>> you, whether or not you appreciate that we do so or ever raise a
>>>> finger to help us. Much distance remains for us to travel, and we
>>>> certainly can use a willing hand at the oars. Thanks for reading.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Peter Wolfe
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:52 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Adjustment to Blindness Training, NFB
>>>> Centers or Not?
>>>>
>>>> In fact, the best method that anybody can teach you is
>>>> improvization not technique persay. It doesn't matter where you get
>>>> any information from on these things whether NFB, ACB, AFB, Lion's
>>>> Club's or wherever as long as you get whatever information. Make-up
>>>> yoru own techniques and sell a book for all I care as long as it
>>>> works for you that is all that counts. I could careless as logn as
>>>> you share the information with fellow blind individuals that is my
>>>> thhing that it shouldn't matter what special interest group that
>>>> your apart of cause we should all work together in dealing with a
>>>> rotten situation to make it better. By the way, I'm never going to
>>>> be part of NFB, ACB, AFB or any of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sincerely,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/13, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>> Kelby,
>>>>>
>>>>> Your question is a fair one and I don't have a definitive answer.
>>>>> I can only tell you that I received training before there were NFB
>>>>> centers and I have been a reasonably successful traveler and have
>>>>> generally managed my life successfully. However, in the work I
>>>>> have done with BLIND Incorporated, I see that there are things I
>>>>> missed when I was trained. I think I have picked up much of what
>>>>> I missed primarily because of my association with others in the
>>>>> Federation. It has more to do with being confident enough to try
>>>>> new situations and knowing that I'll figure them out even if I
>>>>> don't know exactly how at the start, and less to do with how many
>>>>> inches I swing my cane left and right. In my opinion, and you may
>>>>> see this as a cop-out, it has less to do with comparing the
>>>>> quality of one's travel skills and more to do with whether one
>>>>> actually gets out and travels. These are not easy things to measure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you some via e-mail and I think we may have met in the
>>>>> past, but I don't know how well you travel, for example. What I
>>>>> do know is that most of us are affected by the general attitudes
>>>>> that surround us in a way that is hard to measure. Even though we
>>>>> have some idea of what our capabilities are, unless we are
>>>>> exceptionally confident, we are going to tend to believe it if we
>>>>> are uncertain how we would accomplish a given thing and someone
>>>>> tells us we can't do it. I believe there was a time when there
>>>>> was a clear dividing line between NFB training centers and many
>>>>> other centers. We believed that we have to affect one's attitude
>>>>> toward blindness and oneself while most other centers believed that
they need to concentrate on teaching techniques.
>>>>> The common belief among some other centers was that changing
>>>>> attitudes toward blindness was dictating a philosophy and was
>>>>> outside of their mandate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frankly, I think this has changed some over the years and that
>>>>> there is a more general acceptance of the notion that one's belief
>>>>> in oneself is probably as important as the techniques used so some
>>>>> of the lines are not as clear as they once were. Still, I am
>>>>> skeptical of how well attitudes can be changed in a couple of
>>>>> months, but of course, it depends some upon the starting point of the
individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was observed at one of our state conventions that we are not
>>>>> all good travelers. The person making the observation, who shall
>>>>> remain nameless, said that they felt a need to jump in and help
>>>>> but there were too many people to try to help all at once.
>>>>> However, they soon realized that good techniques or bad, people
>>>>> were getting where they needed to go without assistance, and that
>>>>> what appeared to be potentially frustrating to an observer was not
>>>>> the case for the traveler. This isn't meant to diminish the role
>>>>> of good travel techniques, only to make the point that there is
>>>>> more to travel than techniques. Having said all this, though, I
>>>>> also believe that what we have come to call structured discovery
>>>>> is a valid difference in how one learns to travel. In some ways,
>>>>> it takes longer to learn but provides a better base from which to
>>>>> work. Some of us who did not attend NFB training centers have
>>>>> adopted this approach on our own to some degree, but we would
>>>>> probably have adopted it more easily having had training in an NFB
center.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen somewhat of a pattern in a number of your messages.
>>>>> Often, you start rejecting a position that some of us have taken.
>>>>> Then, when you hear the stories that some have told, you seem to
>>>>> be more open to the possibility that there are sometimes reasons
>>>>> for positions we might have taken. I won't bore you with the
>>>>> details of the time I almost missed a flight because I allowed
>>>>> myself to be talked into waiting for a cart, only to have one not
>>>>> be available for close to an hour, and how the airline employee
>>>>> refused to tell me which gate I needed to get to. Anyway, some of
>>>>> what you are hearing here would have been a part of your training
>>>>> at an NFB Center. You would likely have been given the chance to
>>>>> interact personally with people who had similar experiences so
>>>>> that you could ask them questions. You can get some of this
>>>>> information here, of course, but what about the many experiences that
are not discussed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, I think it makes sense to be careful not to judge one another.
>>>>> My goal is not to convince you how bad your training was, because
>>>>> it might be all right. I feel pretty certain that there are
>>>>> things you didn't get that you would have gotten had you spent
>>>>> time in one of our centers as indicated above, but I don't really
>>>>> think that is the point. The point is how can we help you now and
>>>>> how can you help us and other blind people? Are there things you
>>>>> are not comfortable doing that perhaps someone else here is
>>>>> comfortable doing? We could even explore here some of the things
>>>>> that many of us have overcome as a result of the encouragement from
others.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, I'd like to have the words to make you see things exactly as
>>>>> I see them, isn't that always true? In the end, though, I don't
>>>>> care that much whether you believe there is a difference in
>>>>> training centers or not. I care more that you have what you need
>>>>> to get a job when you get out of college and that you are able to
>>>>> live as full a life as you can live, and I believe there are ways
>>>>> we can help you do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:09:07 -0500, Kelby Carlson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I keep hearing this in NFB literature and from federationists-that
>>>>>>my local training simply must have been far, far inferior to
>>>>>>anything the NFB has. I have as of yet seen no actual compelling
>>>>>>evidence for this claim, and no one I know well in the NFB has
>>>>>>offered me convincing reasons as to why the training I have is
>>>>>>bad. (Those who don't know me can't offer any reasons, as they
>>>>>>don't know my context.) If NFB mobility is so wonderful, I wish
>>>>>>they would allow people interested to pay for a little instruction
>>>>>>to get a sense of their methodology in real space time rather than
>>>>>>forcing people to commit to six to nine months.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Kelby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
>>>>>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu,
>>>>>>21 Mar 2013 23:56:35 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well we all need good mobility skills. A dog is not a replacement
>>>>>>for mobility skills. Whether you use a cane, sighted guide, or a
>>>>>>guide dog.
>>>>>>If you haven't been to an NFB School over the training you get
>>>>>>locally then you don't know what you are missing.
>>>>>>Never going to them myself. I have seen what someone with no
>>>>>>knowledge of any of the services or very little in there own
>>>>>>areas, and come back from our schools with the confidence and the
>>>>>>mobility and the other services that are given there.
>>>>>>If NFB is interested in forming a guide dog school on the NFB's
>>>>>>philosophy then it comes with the first steps in mobility and then
>>>>>>a dog. I have not been blind all my life. I lost my vision as an
>>>>>>adult, and I learned the mobility and cane skills, my dog doesn't
>>>>>>know when to cross the street, I have to give him the direction to do
so.
>>>>>>Know if I am mistaken in what is being said, I am the first to
>>>>>>mention when I am wrong, but there will be a day that we will
>>>>>>either not want to take our dogs places, by our own choice, or in
>>>>>>between a dog, or whatever the issues are. That I know the skills
>>>>>>to get me where I want to go whether it is with my Maxx or not.
>>>>>>Have a great night all.
>>>>>>Take care and god bless.
>>>>>>Whatever decision is met and decided should be done with kindness
>>>>>>to one another; and with the philosophy of the great organization.
>>>>>>Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel & Tourism
>>>>>
>>>>>>Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the Way
>>>>>>in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
>>>>>>Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>>>>>>Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
>>>>>>varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>>>>>>Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>>>>>Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
>>>>>>#1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>>>>>>Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser
>>>>>>for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other
resources.
>>>>>>Any vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6,
>>>>>>2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than
>>>>>>12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
>>>>>>Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and
>>>>>>friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
>>>>>>affiliate as well. You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org,
>>>>>>just book through us.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:18:49 -0500
>>>>>> From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll echo what Cindysaid. There isno way I would give up that
>>>>>>much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
>>>>>>purpose of getting a dog. ZPeter said, I would go somewhere else
straightaway.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kelby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent:
>>>>>>Thu,
>>>>>>21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>>>
>>>>>> When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
>>>>>> real lack of quality training for blind people. I don't really
>>>>>> think that's the case with guide schools. There are some schools
>>>>>> which do things differently from others. But, there are people
>>>>>> who prefer one approach over another. I don't really think that
>>>>>> NFB needs to get involved with guide dog training.
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the nine
>>>>>>month NFB center training, first, this will severely limit the
>>>>>>number of people choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog
>>>>>>school, should one be started. I don't know to many people who
>>>>>>can give up a year of their life to get a guide dog.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Peter Donahue
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
>>>>>> Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
>>>>>>past so she knows where I'm coming from. In line with her
>>>>>>comments below I'd like to suggest a possible scenario for an
>>>>>>NFB-run guide dog program:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
>>>>>>centers for blind adults and youth there would be no need for a
>>>>>>facility for housing students in training to be constructed.
>>>>>>Hold on folks.
>>>>>>Students
>>>>>> wishing to
>>>>>> obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
>>>>>>complete the
>>>>>> 6-9 month program at one of the centers. During the student's
>>>>>>"Bootcamp training" the center has an opportunity to come to know
>>>>>>the student inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of
>>>>>>background information on the applicant to the guide dog unit.
>>>>>>Unlike current guide dog programs that must rely on references
>>>>>>and other information that may be true or false the NFB guide
>>>>>>dog program will have all ready had accurate information gathered
>>>>>>for them by the training center and can be assured that the
>>>>>>applicant is a suitable candidate for a dog.
>>>>>
>>>>>> This approach will also assure the guide dog program that the
>>>>>>student is up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of
>>>>>>transferring them to the use of a dog. Students that
>>>>>>successfully complete the cane travel component of their
>>>>>>immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
>>>>>>other aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted
>>>>>>time students often experience when at guide dog training facilities.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
>>>>>> to wear sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes
>>>>>> and participating in designated center activities. Like students
>>>>>> who undergo cane travel instruction at our centers those training
>>>>>> with dogs would be encouraged to travel on their own prior to
>>>>>> completion of the training. In the beginning they could be
>>>>>> accompanied by an experienced guide dog user/trainer but would be
>>>>>> expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on their
own using their dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
>>>>>> operate similar to those of current guide dog programs. The
>>>>>> program would operate its own breeding component or obtain
>>>>>> suitable dogs from donations. The usual period of socialization
>>>>>> and puppy raising wouldn't be that much different than is done by
>>>>>> current guide dog programs. The dogs would return for a period
>>>>>> of training when they're taught how to guide a blind person.
>>>>>> Once the dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner
>>>>>> they along with an instructor would be sent to the center where
>>>>>> the student receiving the dog will be trained. Alternatively the
>>>>>> NFB guide dog program could operate from one of our centers.
>>>>>> Those wishing to obtain dogs once their "Bootcamp"
>>>>>> training is complete would transfer to that center for training
>>>>>> with the dog. Using all ready existing facilities to house
>>>>>> students in training is one way to reduce the cost of training guide
dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
>>>>>> guide dog program could work but I'm sure others would have
>>>>>> additional ideas. If it's to happen at all the discussion must
>>>>>> continue at a cost of 0 to participants. All the best.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold. First I
>>>>>>would like to see a more in depth background investigation of the
>>>>>>blind applicant. Do a criminal background check, require more
>>>>>>references, ask the neighbors...whatever it takes. Adoption
>>>>>>agencies place children into homes surely we can figure out a
>>>>>>way to more accurately know what sort of situation the dog will be
placed into.
>>>>>>Secondly, I think there are already agencies in place for
>>>>>>dealing with animal abuse, the police and animal control. I
>>>>>>don't see any reason why these agencies can't be used in cases
>>>>>>of neglect or abuse.
>>>>>
>>>>>> In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
>>>>>>the dog in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.
>>>>>>We
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to stop expecting everything for nothing. I like the Seeing
>>>>>>Eye's concept of charging the student. I do wish that the cost
>>>>>>had increased over the years with the cost of living. It has
>>>>>>been $150 since the beginning of the school in 1928. I think
>>>>>>that's the right year.
>>>>>> $150
>>>>>> was a very different sum of money then and now.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
>>>>>> substantially lower sums of money than $60,000. If you look at
>>>>>> the various guide dog programs and how much each claims it costs
>>>>>> to train a dog, the numbers vary widely. All those buildings,
>>>>>> fancy food, excessive equipment and other niceties cost money.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%4
>>>>>> 0satx.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy425%40
>>>>>> verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlso
>>>>>> n%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandma
>>>>>>xx%40hotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlso
>>>>>>n%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobs
>>>>>>on%4
>>>>>>0visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%4
>>>>> 0gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cordially,
>>>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>>>> cum laude Auburn University
>>>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>>>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>>>> Peter Q Wolfe
>>>> "Stand up for your rights"
>>>> Bob Marley
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earth
>> link.ne
>>>> t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.
>> com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40
>> gmail.c
>> om
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams
>> 2%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g
> mail.com
>
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail
.com
More information about the BlindTlk
mailing list