[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Fri Mar 22 04:59:01 UTC 2013
No wheelchairs. Absolutely not. I make that abundantly clear. I'm not
riding in no wheel chair.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Freeman
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:52 AM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
My rule is that if assistance is offered and can be there in less than five
minutes, I'll take it (as long as it's in the form of an arm -- I won't use
a wheelchair in that I don't need it). If the assistance takes longer than
five minutes to arrive, I ask directions and take off on my own. I've been
in situations when waiting for a cart would have meant missing my
connection.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kelby
Carlson
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:19 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
I aam traveling in airport more, so suggestions on getting from gate to gate
would be very helpful. Perhaps it is that I don't know the correct kinds of
questions to ask. What do you do if your connection time is really short?
It would seem in that case it might be better to have assistance.
Kelby
----- Original Message -----
From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 22 Mar 2013
09:48:04 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
I am here to give advice from someone who has been there and done that, I
have traveled many times by myself with and without my guide dog, which I am
a graduate of GDF, and they give you the option of ownership as soon as you
graduate of the school which I have they also have if you want them to be
involved as well.
In either case, living on long island, about 10 minutes from the school, I
have the best of both worlds. I have the school vet there, and I can board
my dog if I am traveling and don't want to take my dog with me while I am
traveling.
Because in my eyes that my dog is only one mobility tool of an arsenol of
tools I use, such as sighted guide and cane.
Getting back to it. Being a travel professional, I need to travel to
destinations and different airports, yes sometimes I wait for the assistance
of another person to get me to the luggage area or where to pick up my
shuttle or limo service, especially if my husband is not going with me,
since he is not blind.
But getting from one gate to another gate at an airport, or getting across
the street or where ever I am going it up to us to decide what our
preferences are. I am not sure if you listened to the whole hour of what
the speech had said.
But again, have a great day, we are here to help you. Whether you belong ot
the NFB or not, I was just offering suggestions of if you cannot go to one
of our schools due to the constraints of being there for months, then maybe
local NFB members can help you. We don't force you to join us. That is not
what we are all about.
I want to wish all over you a Good Pesach if you celebrate Passover, which
we do, and Happy Easter, which we do as well.
Love with respect your sister in the NFB Cheryl Echevarra, PresidentNFB
Travel & Tourism
Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the Way in
Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel Advocate!Cheryl
Echevarria,
Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
#1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation of
the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and
vacation must be traveled no later than
12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends
resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well. You
do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:13:56 -0500
From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
I have, in fact, called NFB centers before about receiving some limited
structured discovery training. I have been given the consistent message
that that is not possible and that I would have to do the comprehensive
program. I am not a federationist, but I am on some of the lists for
informational purposes.
To be perfectly frank, that attitude and action by President Maurer seems
foolish and unnecessarily hostile. I'll certainly have to look at the
link, but I would far rather wait for a few minutes for assistance than get
putentially lost in a large, unfamiliar airport.
Kelby
----- Original Message -----
From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Fri, 22 Mar
2013 07:30:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
Well I said not going to the school I have learned from friends and
family. Since the NFB is also family to me, we may not agree on
everything, but that was family is.
You also have to remember that not everyone has gone to them, since the
schools themselves are not that old. But if you are a member of a chapter
or an affiliate, or go to a state or national convention, you can ask
people that have gone there to help you.
Kelby are you a member of the NFB of just on our talk lists, and have you
called and asked the schools to see if you can come and visit. I know
Father John Sheehan here in NY, who is not blind, but the Chairman of the
Xavier Society for the Blind, he is also the Chaplain for the National
Association of Blind Veterans can help you or give you advice as well about
going to the schools and learning there mobility skills.
He went to one of our schools, I think for a month or less, I forget, I am
sure if anyone on this list knows Father John, has heard the story either
at convention or personally speaking to him, Father John not being blind
himself, when to one of our schools, and when he was there, was do an
experiennce he stayed there with sleepshades or blinders on, either way he
didn't use his sight, he learned how to use a cane and do other things as a
blind person would. He still has the cane the school has given him, and
walks the streets of Manhattan with them, or at a convention he will put
them on and use the cane.
I have learned search and discover with cane travel from those that have
gone to the school. At most training places, they just show you how to
work a certain route and that is it, they don't teach to find your way in
case the area is not safe for whatever reason, they are working on the
roads or there is something going on where you cannot find your way.
It forces you to find alternative ways of getting where you need to go.
Like since I travel alot instead of having someone take me by the arm and
take me there, I would ask, okay from this point do I go straight left,
right turn around.
There is a great speech from our National President Dr. Maurer gave at
the National Convention in 2007 in Atlanta, GA, which by the way was my
first National Convention that stuck in my head ot this day, I will give
the link below, but he was at the airport, and the people at the airport
insisted that he wait for assistance he refused and took off, and they
yelled after him you are going the wrong way, well he said thank you turned
around and went the other way.
Here is the 2007 Banquet Speech by our National President Dr.
Maurer.
Expanding the Limits: The Uncertainty of Exploration
https://nfb.org/Images/nfb/Audio/BanqSpeech/BSP-2007.mp3
It was very powerful to someone who had just joined this organization and
was overwhelmed by the people in a good way, I am what organization has 3
and 4 year olds running around with canes in there hands, running mind you,
and falling down and laughing and getting back up. Just like the sighted
kids. I knew I was in the right place for me.
Now I am not saying that every state has issues with there mobility
instructors and trainers, in fact, the NFB has a program and certification
courses that award Vocation Rehabs or state commissions for the blind for
doing the right thing and have used the NFB trainings in there own state.
If someone can correct me on this, I think Dr. Schroeder, President of
Virginia is with this program. I don't remember the program organization
etc.
In any case, I would suggest you contact Blind Inc in Minnesota, Colorado
Center for the Blind or the Louisiana Center for the Blind.
Have you asked them to see if you can come out and check it out.
Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the Way in
Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel Advocate!Cheryl
Echevarria,
Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST
-
#1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation
of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and
vacation must be traveled no later than
12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends
resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well.
You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:09:07 -0500
From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
I keep hearing this in NFB literature and from
federationists-that my local training simply must have been far,
far inferior to anything the NFB has. I have as of yet seen no
actual compelling evidence for this claim, and no one I know well
in the NFB has offered me convincing reasons as to why the
training I have is bad. (Those who don't know me can't offer any
reasons, as they don't know my context.) If NFB mobility is so
wonderful, I wish they would allow people interested to pay for a
little instruction to get a sense of their methodology in real
space time rather than forcing people to commit to six to nine
months.
Kelby
----- Original Message -----
From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:56:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
Well we all need good mobility skills. A dog is not a
replacement for mobility skills. Whether you use a cane, sighted
guide, or a guide dog.
If you haven't been to an NFB School over the training you get
locally then you don't know what you are missing.
Never going to them myself. I have seen what someone with no
knowledge of any of the services or very little in there own
areas, and come back from our schools with the confidence and the
mobility and the other services that are given there.
If NFB is interested in forming a guide dog school on the NFB's
philosophy then it comes with the first steps in mobility and
then a dog. I have not been blind all my life. I lost my vision
as an adult, and I learned the mobility and cane skills, my dog
doesn't know when to cross the street, I have to give him the
direction to do so.
Know if I am mistaken in what is being said, I am the first to
mention when I am wrong, but there will be a day that we will
either not want to take our dogs places, by our own choice, or in
between a dog, or whatever the issues are. That I know the
skills to get me where I want to go whether it is with my Maxx or
not.
Have a great night all.
Take care and god bless.
Whatever decision is met and decided should be done with kindness
to one another; and with the philosophy of the great
organization.
Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNFB Travel & Tourism
Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible
Travel Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@eche
varriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST
-
#1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser
for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other
resources. Any vacation package booked between November 6
2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than
12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families
and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
affiliate as well. You do not need to be a member of the
NFB.org, just book through us.
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:18:49 -0500
From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible
Scenario
I'll echo what Cindysaid. There isno way I would give up that
much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
purpose of getting a dog. ZPeter said, I would go somewhere
else
straightaway.
Kelby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible
Scenario
When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
real lack of
quality training for blind people. I don't really think that's
the case
with guide schools. There are some schools which do things
differently from
others. But, there are people who prefer one approach over
another. I
don't really think that NFB needs to get involved with guide dog
training.
As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the
nine
month NFB
center training, first, this will severely limit the number of
people
choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog school, should
one be
started. I don't know to many people who can give up a year of
their life
to get a guide dog.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Donahue
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
past so she
knows where I'm coming from. In line with her comments below
I'd
like to
suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:
Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
centers for
blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for
housing
students in training to be constructed. Hold on folks.
Students
wishing to
obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
complete the
6-9 month program at one of the centers. During the student's
"Bootcamp
training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the
student
inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background
information on the
applicant to the guide dog unit. Unlike current guide dog
programs that must
rely on references and other information that may be true or
false the NFB
guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information
gathered for
them by the training center and can be assured that the
applicant
is a
suitable candidate for a dog.
This approach will also assure the guide dog program that
the
student is
up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring
them to the
use of a dog. Students that successfully complete the cane
travel component
of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
This
approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
other
aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time
students
often experience when at guide dog training facilities.
Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
to wear
sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and
participating
in designated center activities. Like students who undergo cane
travel
instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be
encouraged to
travel on their own prior to completion of the training. In the
beginning
they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog
user/trainer but would
be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on
their own
using their dogs.
As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
operate
similar to those of current guide dog programs. The program
would operate
its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from
donations. The usual
period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much
different
than is done by current guide dog programs. The dogs would
return for a
period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind
person. Once the
dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they
along with an
instructor would be sent to the center where the student
receiving the dog
will be trained. Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could
operate from
one of our centers. Those wishing to obtain dogs once their
"Bootcamp"
training is complete would transfer to that center for training
with the
dog. Using all ready existing facilities to house students in
training is
one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.
The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
guide dog
program could work but I'm sure others would have additional
ideas. If it's
to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
participants. All the best.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold. First I
would
like to see a more in depth background investigation of the
blind
applicant. Do a criminal background check, require more
references, ask
the neighbors...whatever it takes. Adoption agencies place
children
into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately
know
what
sort of situation the dog will be placed into. Secondly, I
think
there
are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the
police
and animal control. I don't see any reason why these agencies
can't be
used in cases of neglect or abuse.
In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
the dog
in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.
We
have
to stop expecting everything for nothing. I like the Seeing
Eye's
concept of charging the student. I do wish that the cost had
increased
over the years with the cost of living. It has been $150 since
the
beginning of the school in 1928. I think that's the right year.
$150
was a very different sum of money then and now.
I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
substantially
lower sums of money than $60,000. If you look at the various
guide dog
programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the
numbers
vary widely. All those buildings, fancy food, excessive
equipment and
other niceties cost money.
Julie
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