[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario

Sat Mar 23 10:45:55 UTC 2013

R.J.,
    I know you are well aware that the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users, for which I serve as president, is a division of the National 
Federation of the Blind; it has been since 1986. If the NFB were anti guide 
dog, would their leadership have authorized the formation of such a 
division? The assertion that the NFB is anti guide dog is nothing more than 
a lie promulgated by those in whose best interest it is to tell such lies! I 
have been a Federationist since 1984 and a guide dog user since 1987. I have 
never encountered anti guide dog sentiment from the Organization and am 
proud to be their representative voice on such issues.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
National Federation of the Blind
813-626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario


> I've heard that at one time NFB was aginst the use of guide dogs. Is this 
> a fact? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>
>
>> Good evening everyone,
>>
>>    Before we can talk about drawing up business plans, securing funding,
>> and building a facility we first need to discuss the issue among 
>> ourselves
>> something that has yet to happen during our national convention. It 
>> wasn't
>> through NAGDU that I learned about GDB'S initiative to employ blind 
>> persons
>> in its training department but rather I learned it from school
>> representatives staffing their table during the 2005 national convention.
>>
>>    This afternoon I checked the NAGDU Web site for any information as to
>> the status of guide dog-related issues and did not find any recent 
>> updates
>> nor did I find the most recent issue of "Harness UP" NAGDU's Newsletter. 
>> If
>> anyone has the most recent issue of Harness Up they can send I'd like to
>> read it.
>>
>>    Since I paid my NAGDU dues at last year's national convention I should
>> be receiving Harness UP but haven't gotten a single issue. If I was
>> receiving it like I should and discovered that there has been activity
>> concerning the issues we've been discussing I would have kept my mouth 
>> shut!
>> Marion if you could check to be sure I receive future issues of Harness 
>> Up
>> I'll appreciate that very much.
>>
>>    No guide dog school forces students to attend if they choose not too 
>> do
>> so. An NFB guide dog program would be no different. We have members who 
>> for
>> whatever reason choose to attend traditional centers instead of the NFB
>> centers and their choices are respected.
>>
>>    As for support from our national leadership the issue has never been
>> discussed at convention let alone receiving a vote of yes or no. I recall 
>> in
>> 1984 that a discussion of whether or not an orientation center should be
>> housed at our national headquarters. I was there and have recordings of 
>> that
>> convention item. In the end it was decided to continue to support efforts 
>> to
>> improve the type and quality of training offered by existing 
>> rehabilitation
>> programs and to assist states wishing to establish new programs. Since 
>> that
>> time three NFB training centers were established in Colorado, Louisiana, 
>> and
>> Minnesota. Several other state programs for the blind  have adopted the
>> Structured-Discovery Immersion Model and base their orientation and
>> adjustment programs on the NFB philosophy. Hawaii, Nebraska, and New 
>> Mexico
>> are examples of the latter case. All of the above-mentioned centers and
>> state programs have received approval from the National Blindness
>> Professional Certification Board (NBPCB.) No guide dog school has 
>> received
>> this agency approval certification.
>>
>>    Just as this discussion occurred in 1984 a similar item to discuss the
>> establishment of an NFB guide dog program needs to take place during the
>> national convention to permit all interested persons to be heard and to 
>> air
>> their views to determine what direction such an initiative should take if 
>> it
>> goes anywhere at all. This is how we'll find out how much support there 
>> is
>> for the creation of such a program and whether it will receive support 
>> from
>> the entire organization. Now to catch a few missed hours of
>> Bach-Around-The_Clock.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>
>>
>> Peter, I understand the concern but I forsee some isues with having an 
>> NFB
>> guide dog school. 1 Would national support such a project? 2 people 3 
>> Would
>> the school require the person to come there? Just my thoughts. RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>
>>
>>> Hello Kelby and everyone,
>>>
>>>    And that's fine. Just be willing to support the creation of a guide 
>>> dog
>>> program for those willing to make those kind of commitments. I wouldn't 
>>> be
>>> caught dead working in another sheltered workshop but this morning 
>>> signed
>>> our petition to urge Congress to adopt the legislation to end the 
>>> payment
>>> of
>>> subminimum wages to blind shop workers.
>>>
>>> If people are happy with the guide dog program they attend more power to
>>> them but they have no right to stand in the way of those desiring a 
>>> guide
>>> dog school that is more innovative and is willing to take guide dog
>>> training
>>> and placement to a new dimension.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Kelby Carlson" <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll echo what Cindysaid.  There isno way I would give up that
>>> much time for mobility training I already had purely for the
>>> purpose of getting a dog.  ZPeter said, I would go somewhere else
>>> straightaway.
>>>
>>> Kelby
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:56:01 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>
>>> When the NFB centers were started, many years ago, there was a
>>> real lack of
>>> quality training for blind people.  I don't really think that's
>>> the case
>>> with guide schools.  There are some schools which do things
>>> differently from
>>> others.  But, there are people who prefer one approach over
>>> another.  I
>>> don't really think that NFB needs to get involved with guide dog
>>> training.
>>>
>>> As for Peter's suggestion that students would go through the nine
>>> month NFB
>>> center training, first, this will severely limit the number of
>>> people
>>> choosing to have training from an NFB guide dog school, should
>>> one be
>>> started.  I don't know to many people who can give up a year of
>>> their life
>>> to get a guide dog.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:25 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog School, A Possible Scenario
>>>
>>> Good afternoon Julie and everyone,
>>>    Julie and I have had many conversations on this issue in the
>>> past so she
>>> knows where I'm coming from.  In line with her comments below I'd
>>> like to
>>> suggest a possible scenario for an NFB-run guide dog program:
>>>
>>>        Since we all ready have three orientation and adjustment
>>> centers for
>>> blind adults and youth there would be no need for a facility for
>>> housing
>>> students in training to be constructed.  Hold on folks.  Students
>>> wishing to
>>> obtain a guide dog from the NFB's program would be required to
>>> complete the
>>> 6-9 month program at one of the centers.  During the student's
>>> "Bootcamp
>>> training" the center has an opportunity to come to know the
>>> student
>>> inside-out and will be able to furnish lots of background
>>> information on the
>>> applicant to the guide dog unit.  Unlike current guide dog
>>> programs that must
>>> rely on references and other information that may be true or
>>> false the NFB
>>> guide dog program will have all ready had accurate information
>>> gathered for
>>> them by the training center and can be assured that the applicant
>>> is a
>>> suitable candidate for a dog.
>>>
>>>    This approach will also assure the guide dog program that the
>>> student is
>>> up-to-par with their cane skills and is capable of transferring
>>> them to the
>>> use of a dog.  Students that successfully complete the cane
>>> travel component
>>> of their immersion training would be eligible to receive a dog.
>>> This
>>> approach would also permit students receiving a dog to complete
>>> other
>>> aspects of their immersion training minimizing the wasted time
>>> students
>>> often experience when at guide dog training facilities.
>>>
>>>    Students undergoing guide dog instruction would be required
>>> to wear
>>> sleep shades as they do when taking other center classes and
>>> participating
>>> in designated center activities.  Like students who undergo cane
>>> travel
>>> instruction at our centers those training with dogs would be
>>> encouraged to
>>> travel on their own prior to completion of the training.  In the
>>> beginning
>>> they could be accompanied by an experienced guide dog
>>> user/trainer but would
>>> be expected to travel and complete "Monster Routes" entirely on
>>> their own
>>> using their dogs.
>>>
>>>    As for the dog component of the operation I imagine it would
>>> operate
>>> similar to those of current guide dog programs.  The program
>>> would operate
>>> its own breeding component or obtain suitable dogs from
>>> donations.  The usual
>>> period of socialization and puppy raising wouldn't be that much
>>> different
>>> than is done by current guide dog programs.  The dogs would
>>> return for a
>>> period of training when they're taught how to guide a blind
>>> person.  Once the
>>> dogs are ready to be pared with their future blind owner they
>>> along with an
>>> instructor would be sent to the center where the student
>>> receiving the dog
>>> will be trained.  Alternatively the NFB guide dog program could
>>> operate from
>>> one of our centers.  Those wishing to obtain dogs once their
>>> "Bootcamp"
>>> training is complete would transfer to that center for training
>>> with the
>>> dog.  Using all ready existing facilities to house students in
>>> training is
>>> one way to reduce the cost of training guide dogs.
>>>
>>>    The above is just one possible scenario of how an NFB-run
>>> guide dog
>>> program could work but I'm sure others would have additional
>>> ideas.  If it's
>>> to happen at all the discussion must continue at a cost of 0 to
>>> participants.  All the best.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:08 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the answer to protecting the dogs is two fold.  First I
>>> would
>>> like to see a more in depth background investigation of the blind
>>> applicant.  Do a criminal background check, require more
>>> references, ask
>>> the neighbors...whatever it takes.  Adoption agencies place
>>> children
>>> into homes surely we can figure out a way to more accurately know
>>> what
>>> sort of situation the dog will be placed into.  Secondly, I think
>>> there
>>> are already agencies in place for dealing with animal abuse, the
>>> police
>>> and animal control.  I don't see any reason why these agencies
>>> can't be
>>> used in cases of neglect or abuse.
>>>
>>> In regard to cost and the blind applicant absorbing the cost of
>>> the dog
>>> in order to own the dog outright is an extremely valid point.  We
>>> have
>>> to stop expecting everything for nothing.  I like the Seeing
>>> Eye's
>>> concept of charging the student.  I do wish that the cost had
>>> increased
>>> over the years with the cost of living.  It has been $150 since
>>> the
>>> beginning of the school in 1928.  I think that's the right year.
>>> $150
>>> was a very different sum of money then and now.
>>>
>>> I also think that guide dogs can be raised and trained for
>>> substantially
>>> lower sums of money than $60,000.  If you look at the various
>>> guide dog
>>> programs and how much each claims it costs to train a dog, the
>>> numbers
>>> vary widely.  All those buildings, fancy food, excessive
>>> equipment and
>>> other niceties cost money.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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