[Blindtlk] 2 cents
Peter Wolfe
yogabare13 at gmail.com
Mon Mar 25 12:46:52 UTC 2013
Ericka,
For what its worth that I hope that you accomplish your goal of
your career ambitions. I'm not like the rest of you on list cause I
have several mental disorders that stem to well before my blindness
that I don't want to get to on list okay? I agree having a positive
mindset can help some people out, however, not all of us contend with
just blindness like post-dramatic stress disorder, acute depression
and past suicidal attempts that I'm unlike lots of other blind people.
Good luck,
Peter
On 3/25/13, Ericka J. Short <ericka.short at att.net> wrote:
> Peter
>
> Mike's eloquent response might seem really crazy but as a middle of the road
>
> person in philosphiies of the blind I totally agree with him! A positive
> attitude and the willingness to ask someone how you can make your dream
> come true are essential. While I'm not "living the dream" as of yet, I'm
> working towards it. I'm doing case management under a wonderful sighted
> boss who has the NFB ideas but doesn't know it. Every experience is a way
> to learn about yourself and become more confident in what your dream is.
> Keep active and don't give up. My dream? To be working as a social worker
>
> for those in hospice or an run my own counseling center that gives more
> focus to the disabled than the nondisabled (we'd take anyone though to pay
> bills)!
>
> Ericka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:25 AM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: blindtlk Digest, Vol 81, Issue 48
>
> Send blindtlk mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Professions on list? (Bryan Schulz)
> 2. Re: Professions on list? (Mike Freeman)
> 3. Re: My 2 Cents (Mike Freeman)
> 4. Re: My 2 Cents (Mike Freeman)
> 5. Re: Professions on list? (Mike Freeman)
> 6. Re: Professions on list? (Carly Mihalakis)
> 7. Re: My 2 Cents (David Andrews)
> 8. Re: My 2 Cents (Diane Graves)
> 9. Re: Professions on list? (Diane Graves)
> 10. Re: Professions on list? (Peter Wolfe)
> 11. Re: My 2 Cents (Peter Wolfe)
> 12. product advice (sarah harris)
> 13. Re: product advice (Peter Wolfe)
> 14. Re: Professions on list? (justin williams)
> 15. Re: Professions on list? (justin williams)
> 16. Re: Professions on list? (Peter Wolfe)
> 17. Re: My 2 Cents (Carly Mihalakis)
> 18. Re: My 2 Cents (Carly Mihalakis)
> 19. Re: Professions on list? (Marion Gwizdala)
> 20. Re: Professions on list? (cheryl echevarria)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:16:18 -0500
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <BE40F63D29B14F78B7C16D6F05B63DFF at HP8730notebook>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> hi,
>
> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine work
> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years
> because
> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as popular
> or important than white collar jobs.
>
> Bryan Schulz
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
>
>> Peter:
>>
>> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy and
>> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor becomes
>> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again. I
>> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
>> might
>> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
>> about
>> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
>> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
>> worries
>> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
>>
>> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
>> asking
>> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within the
>> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of us
>> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers and
>> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone else,
>> you
>> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
>> interests
>> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
>> whatever
>> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that
>> you
>> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might not
>> be
>> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the case
>> and
>> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a blind
>> man
>> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
>> electricians,
>> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
>> blind
>> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I met a
>> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day job
>> but
>> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department employed
>> him
>> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the misfortune
>> of
>> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
>> water
>> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
>> couldn't
>> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his hobby
>> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
>> since
>> that I didn't get the guy's name.
>>
>> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this one
>> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind person.
>> Or
>> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while, Federation
>> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
>> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind person
>> and
>> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
>> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high school
>> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a while
>> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
>> that
>> query.
>>
>> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
>> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
>> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies to
>> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
>> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat here
>> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
>> recognize
>> this.
>>
>> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
>>
>> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of the
>> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that there
>> is
>> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
>> misguided
>> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools and
>> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
>>
>> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
>> least
>> at first, but there it is.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>> Wolfe
>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>> cheryl,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
>> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
>> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
>> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
>> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
>> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
>> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
>> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
>> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
>> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
>>
>>
>> I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
>> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
>> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
>> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
>> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
>> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
>> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
>> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
>> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
>> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
>> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
>> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
>> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
>> the real economy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good morning all:
>>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college graduate
>> of
>>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
>>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help me
>>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the things I
>>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
>>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
>>> hearing
>>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also good
>>> knife skills.
>>> The business part always helps in any profession.
>>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an office/sales
>>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
>>> 2001
>> as
>>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
>> company
>>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due to
>>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
>>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained by
>>> the
>>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to be
>>> a
>>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked as a
>>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other testing
>>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
>> 2009,
>>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have been
>>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY as
>> well
>>> as by Governor Cuomo.
>>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do it.
>>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight for
>> all
>>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
>>> Cheryl
>>>
>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>>>
>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation
>> of
>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
>> vacation
>>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
>>> must
>> be
>>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to
>> the
>>> affiliate. Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
>>> families
>>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
>>> affiliate
>>> as well. You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
>>> through
>>> us.
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>
>>>> Peter,
>>>> There is a wealth of information available on various professions
>>>> blind
>>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
>>>> challenging
>>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have not
>> yet
>>>>
>>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional musician
>>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
>>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
>>>> saddam
>>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas employment
>>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in Psychology
>>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. I
>>>> am
>>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
>>>> though
>> I
>>>>
>>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
>>>> Director.
>>>> When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
>> Health
>>>> &
>>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com) I
>>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. I
>>>> share
>>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use all
>> your
>>>>
>>>> assets as you network with others!
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> 813-626-2789
>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
>>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
>>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
>>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood.
>>>> > I
>>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list
>>>> > are
>>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
>>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history
>>>> > and
>>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
>>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself
>>>> > out
>>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thank you,
>>>> > Peter
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> > blindtlk:
>>>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
>> l.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> cum laude Auburn University
>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> Peter Q Wolfe
>> "Stand up for your rights"
>> Bob Marley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:56:07 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <013901ce28d2$025919c0$070b4d40$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Peter:
>
>
>
> Have you checked out the "how-to" videos on the Washington State School for
> the Blind <http://www.wssb.wa.gov/> web site? Also, have you looked at
> http://www.blindhow.com <http://www.blindhow.com/> for tips and tricks?
>
>
>
> In seeking to learn techniques, please bear in mind that, despite what some
> authorities may tell you, there is no standard technique to do particular
> activities as a blind person. There is a general consensus that there are
> certain efficient ways to do things but in the end, you do what works for
> you as long as it is efficient. As a trivial example, I know rehab teachers
> who have heart-attacks watching me plug something into an outlet, believing
> that I am courting a shock. Yet I don't think I've been bitten more than
> anyone else has.
>
>
>
> On another topic, some statistics packages work better than others using
> screen-reading technology. You'd ask on the GUI-Talk, NFBCS or NABS-L lists
> which are, the Graphical User Interface, NFB in Computer Science and NFB
> student lists, respectively, and get an answer with greater expertise than
> you'd get here.
>
>
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Wolfe
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:54 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
>
>
> Julie,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you so very much for the most thought provoking e-mail that
>
> I've recieved in quite sometime now! I'm not just saying that either
>
> cause I don't give flattery just compliments as they are warranted.
>
> You gave a comprehensive indepthed analysis that I was looking for.
>
> Not only was I thinking that this strategy was for me but exactly my
>
> experience has shown me as well.
>
>
>
>
>
> I'd like to refine a point or two that you made on
>
> experimentation. Realizing that your blind that your expectations
>
> shouldn't be that everything will work at any given point of time.
>
> I've failed in many things that I've tried even selling a house as a
>
> rent-to-own property cause of having the house stripped. However, I
>
> learned that somethings are easier than others without sight and
>
> geography plays a huge role in this endeavor as well. Relying on
>
> others to accomplish tasks doesn't work as well, so always having a
>
> backup plan like your doing is the way about success. Out of everyone
>
> on list to date that I admire you the most. By the way, I'm interested
>
> in how you get statistical software to work using a screen reader like
>
> Jaws or Window-Eyes cause I see this as something that I need for my
>
> profession. Some people on the Social Sciences e-mail list think that
>
> I need to start working, then consult with them to know better what to
>
> do that just simply the way that I operate though.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lastly, I cannot express my level of gratitude to your post
>
> enough! It was a fabulous beautiful and amazing work of art that
>
> illustrates strength and something that all blind people should strive
>
> for against adversity. I've thought about making my own business with
>
> extra money like how about an online service for blind people like an
>
> how-to video/audio set that teaches cooking, cleaning, etc? Honestly
>
> this would save lots of people time and money instead of these
>
> rehabilitative programs that many don't want to do instead of
>
> retirement, schooling or whatever. Maybe this something you or someone
>
> else can create for blind people cause I'd pay for a program like
>
> that.
>
>
>
>
>
> sincerely,
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 3/24/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Peter,
>
>>
>
>> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult. Perhaps you, or
>
>> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
>
>>
>
>> From a young age, I wanted to work with animals. I started training dogs
> in
>
>>
>
>> high school. I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot. I decided to go to
>
>> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.
>> At
>
>> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction. I was
>
>> never taught a single alternative skill. I didn't even know about CCTV's
> or
>
>>
>
>> large print. This was before computers were mainstream.
>
>>
>
>> I didn't do so well in college. Partly that was because I lost a major
>
>> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
>
>> skills. But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready
>> for
>
>> college or at least not the classroom part! I was 17 when I started
>
>> college. I had lived a fairly sheltered life. My parents didn't go out
> of
>
>>
>
>> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
>
>> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
> I
>
>>
>
>> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how. I could have
> taken
>
>>
>
>> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.
> I
>
>>
>
>> isolated myself.
>
>>
>
>> I gave up on veterinary technology. Sometimes I regret this, but mostly
>> I
>
>> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had. If I had
> not
>
>>
>
>> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would
> not
>
>>
>
>> be where I am now. I love my life. If I could go back and change
> anything,
>
>>
>
>> I don't think I would. I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I
> could
>
>>
>
>> learn and grow.
>
>>
>
>> I'll fast forward a few years. I met a lot of people in college, made
> many
>
>>
>
>> friends, one of them being my first husband. I had figured out that
>> there
>
>> were services for blind people, by accident. I was starting to see
>
>> possibilities.
>
>>
>
>> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for
>> me
>
>> to finish my associates degree in sociology. Still no mainstream
>
>> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
>
>> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks. My rehab counselor was my
>> gateway
>
>> to all things blindness related. I didn't know a single blind person.
>
>>
>
>> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
> changed
>
>>
>
>> dramatically. Now it was no longer about getting by or making do. I
> needed
>
>>
>
>> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else. I
>
>> learned Braille and cane travel right away. My rehab counselor and
> teacher
>
>>
>
>> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
>
>> cane. they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools. But when
> they
>
>>
>
>> left I practiced like a mad woman. I was only given the first ten
>> letters
>
>> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back
>> I
>
>> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
>
>> think of with those ten letters. I took my cane when I went places. I
>
>> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
>
>>
>
>> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on. these
>
>> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops. I
> met
>
>>
>
>> other blind people. I soaked up everything like a sponge. I
>> eavesdropped
>
>> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could
>> help
>
>> me. My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly. Before I met
>
>> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
>
>> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher. After I met blind
> people
>
>>
>
>> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
> and
>
>>
>
>> mothers I had hope for myself.
>
>>
>
>> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
>
>> sociology. I had no job prospects. My husband wanted to finish his
> degree
>
>>
>
>> in the same town where the state residential training center for the
>> blind
>
>> was located. So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
> training.
>
>>
>
>> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for
> the
>
>>
>
>> blind. they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
>
>> choices. I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
>
>> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
>
>> students.
>
>>
>
>> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
>
>> much time out of my life if I could at all help it. From the first day I
>
>> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
>
>> months. I asked what I needed to do to make that happen. No delaying,
>> no
>
>> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
>
>> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months. I read
>
>> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
> evenings
>
>>
>
>> on my own. I pushed myself hard. I finished in three and a half months.
>
>>
>
>> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
>
>> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor. I started
>
>> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training. It was a
>
>> good job. It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
>
>> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck. However it also
> showed
>
>>
>
>> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized. I needed to
> work
>
>>
>
>> more directly with people. I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
>
>> it.
>
>>
>
>> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as
>> a
>
>> student. I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in
>> mental
>
>> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
> invested,
>
>>
>
>> causing myself way too much stress. I got divorced and became a single
> Mom.
>
>>
>
>> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
>
>> roommates.
>
>>
>
>> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
>
>> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
>
>> government. I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to
> manage
>
>>
>
>> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in. I had
>
>> basic skills I felt I could apply. I had good connections with other
> blind
>
>>
>
>> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the
> skills
>
>>
>
>> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do. The most valuable
> skills
>
>>
>
>> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
>
>> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself. Some good basic
>
>> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support
> you
>
>>
>
>> are also important.
>
>>
>
>> To answer your specific questions...
>
>> *How did you know the right skills or technologies
>
>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? *
>
>>
>
>> My answer, I didn't.
>
>> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
>
>> skills. I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
> could.
>
>>
>
>> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
> the
>
>>
>
>> park. The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
>
>> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit
>> different.
>
>> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
>
>>
>
>> *How did you overcome or continue to
>
>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>
>> economy and other adverse situations? *
>
>>
>
>> My answer. I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
>
>> illustrate how I have managed.
>
>> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded. this means
> it
>
>>
>
>> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
>
>> year to the next. I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
>
>> uncertainty. Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
> decent
>
>>
>
>> amount of job security. After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
>
>> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money. I attend the
>
>> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better. I have applied
> for
>
>>
>
>> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs. I started an
>
>> adult diversion program that is fee based. Last year our grant was cut.
> I
>
>>
>
>> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut. However because
>> I
>
>> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
>
>>
>
>> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year
> that
>
>>
>
>> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
>
>> justice in Nebraska. I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
>
>> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from. It
>
>> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected
>> at
>
>> work. I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
>
>> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
>
>>
>
>> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business. It will
>> take
> a
>
>>
>
>> good year for it to be fully functional and making money. If all goes
> well
>
>>
>
>> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
> something
>
>>
>
>> to fall back on. I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio. I
>
>> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
>
>> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one
>> basket.
>
>>
>
>> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go. Since I've
>> started
>
>> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and
>> to
>
>> our statistical reporting. It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
>
>> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
> There
>
>>
>
>> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people. It has taken
> four
>
>>
>
>> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
>
>>
>
>> I just bought an iPad late last summer. I have never had any training on
>
>> how to use it. I know from other blind people that it would be
>> accessible
>
>> out of the box. The first few days were frustrating because it is so
>
>> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it. I have
>
>> learned how to use it by trial and error. When I get stuck I ask the
>> nice
>
>> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
>
>> devices. I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
>
>> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
>
>>
>
>> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
>
>> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it. I figure if I do
>
>> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year. If I try something,
> I
>
>>
>
>> have the chance to better myself. I might not make the right decision or
> do
>
>>
>
>> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if
>> what
> I
>
>>
>
>> learn is what doesn't work.
>
>> All my best,
>
>> Julie
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> blindtlk mailing list
>
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
>> blindtlk:
>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cordially,
>
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>
> cum laude Auburn University
>
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>
> Peter Q Wolfe
>
> "Stand up for your rights"
>
> Bob Marley
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> blindtlk mailing list
>
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:58:50 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <013e01ce28d2$6332cd40$299867c0$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Peter:
>
> You're obsessing about the word "consumer" too much. In using that word,
> both rehab and most blind persons merely mean a designation of someone
> receiving services and, if we are honest, it's also a way to avoid the word
> "client" which some of us hate. Frankly, I don't care what you call me as
> long as you call me for dinner. (grin) Our state department of services for
> the blind calls those whom it serves "customers".
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Wolfe
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:43 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>
> Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
> rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
> inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
> Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
> demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
> things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
> looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
> deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
>
>
> sincerely,
> Peter
>
> On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> Diane,
>>
>> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
>>
>> Mark Tardif
>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Diane Graves
>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>>
>> Good Evening,
>>
>>
>>
>> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
>> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
>> having
>> deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize in
>> advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
>> just
>> in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
>> baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share
>> my
>> sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
>>
>>
>>
>> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one participant
> in
>> the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
> that
>> we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept
>> the
>> fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
>> individual is saying that we need to come together to fight
>> discrimination
>> against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, then
>> why
>> should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
>> discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
>> unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
>> fits
>> all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any more
>> than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are
>> sighted
>> people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the people
>> skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be
>> the
>> CEO of a corporation. That CEO might not have the athletic prowess to
>> fight his way out of a cardboard box. That doesn't make either one of
> them
>> inferior. They're just different.
>>
>>
>>
>> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> can't
>> perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
>> varied in our abilities as the sighted.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> have
>> a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of blind
>> people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply
>> because
>> they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have trouble
> at
>> times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
> skills
>> are not excellent and far above mine.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
>> to
>> any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
>> listen
>> to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
>> certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
> when
>> actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb mobility
>> skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
>> different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
>> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> their
>> money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
>> about
>> programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do it,
>> doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I hear
>> this person telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while
>> at
>> the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
>> severely
>> limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
>> Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
>> those
>> who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that you
>> could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight the
>> discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
>> believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard as
> it
>> relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
>> organization
>> at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> take
>> my dreams.
>>
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
> .com
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:00:14 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <013f01ce28d2$95412200$bfc36600$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Peter:
>
> This sort of sophistry ill-becomes you.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Wolfe
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:31 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>
> Diane,
>
>
> Thanks for pointing me out to your possy on the NFB-Talk list that
> is quite becoming of NFB insulated double-speak. I rise to the defense
> to acknowledge the positive statements that I've already mentioned in
> prior posts that are commendable and worthy of mention. Did I or did I
> not mention some professions that blind people have and continue to
> pursue despite their odds? The answer just to spoon feed everyone is a
> definint affirmative not the pessimestic view that your trying to
> paint my posts as being.
>
>
> Secondly, why would I seek to equalize the playing field for
> inferior blind people vs superior normal undsabled sighted folks? I do
> it cause humans are set aside apart from the Kingdom of Animalia or
> lifeforms for this particular nack of the capacity of civility and
> rational characteristics. We're far more than simple creatures who
> would kill off the weaker for the benefit of the pack like lower
> lifeforms like wolves or lions or whatever creature in a nihilistic
> world view. Moreover, its the place in a world of 21st century
> technology and medicine with civil democracy to care for the
> vulnerable in a global economy that attracts a vibrant economy by a
> diverse and cultured worlk-force. Lastly, I'd mention that one day
> that we will all become disabled not even seniority is granted to some
> people in their lives, yet disability whether in sickness or
> disability afflicts all of us in one stage or another in our
> lifetimes.
>
> Thirdly and lastly, my views are within lines of my experiences
> not NFB's, yours or anybodies on the list that has some evidense to
> prove it. I could honestly careless of what you think of me nor my
> objective facts as to how I see the world. I'd mention that NFB
> centers foster such one-way configurations of long-cane travel, Nfb's
> policy against universal tactical currency, protestive aggressive
> extremist or whatever and not to mention lack of inclusion lik the
> aCB. Neither group whether ACB or NFB are inline with reality that is
> my view that is how I see it that is the real deal to me.
>
>
> sincerely,
> Peter
>
> On 3/23/13, Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good Evening,
>>
>>
>>
>> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
>> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
>> having
>> deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize in
>> advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
>> just
>> in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
>> baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share
>> my
>> sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
>>
>>
>>
>> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one participant
> in
>> the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
> that
>> we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept
>> the
>> fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
>> individual is saying that we need to come together to fight
>> discrimination
>> against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, then
>> why
>> should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
>> discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
>> unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
>> fits
>> all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any more
>> than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are
>> sighted
>> people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the people
>> skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be
>> the
>> CEO of a corporation. That CEO might not have the athletic prowess to
>> fight his way out of a cardboard box. That doesn't make either one of
> them
>> inferior. They're just different.
>>
>>
>>
>> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> can't
>> perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
>> varied in our abilities as the sighted.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> have
>> a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of blind
>> people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply
>> because
>> they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have trouble
> at
>> times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
> skills
>> are not excellent and far above mine.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
>> to
>> any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
>> listen
>> to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
>> certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
> when
>> actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb mobility
>> skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
>> different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
>> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> their
>> money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
>> about
>> programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do it,
>> doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I hear
>> this person telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while
>> at
>> the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
>> severely
>> limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
>> Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
>> those
>> who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that you
>> could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight the
>> discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
>> believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard as
> it
>> relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
>> organization
>> at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> take
>> my dreams.
>>
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:03:34 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <014001ce28d3$0ca7ff30$25f7fd90$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Peter:
>
> I hold a B.A. and M.S. in physics. When I got out of school, contrary to
> the
> situation when I started college, physicists were a dime a dozen so I and
> many of my sighted colleagues went into computer programming. I also faced
> discrimination in applying for physics jobs but there weren't many
> protections to job-seekers back when I was looking for employment.
>
> I've also played classical piano professionally -- I played Gershwin's
> Rhapsody in Blue with the Oregon Symphony and had to join the AFM to do so.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Wolfe
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:58 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
> Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
>
>
> What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
> lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
> vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
> of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood. I
> believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list are
> far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
> topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history and
> advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
> so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself out
> of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
>
>
> Thank you,
> Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:14:45 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: blinddog3 at charter.net,Blind Talk Mailing List
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>, "'Blind Talk Mailing List'"
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130324160116.01c498a0 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Good Sunday afternoon, Steve,
>
> i read your post with some interest as I am also into social
> work. And, if I may, wish to remind you of something that most
> likely, you already know, keep on volunteering and doing such
> meaningful work! You don't need to saddle yourself or in other ways
> impede your service to people, So you need not rush into a family.
> Look at how there are relatively few servants of people, to the
> number of folks per suing a family. So, what I'm saying is, don't
> rush it. When it's supposed to happen, I'm certain it will.
> for today, Car
>>Peter, I have been reading these threads for quite some time now, and
>>decided to finally chime in.
>>
>>I too lost my sight later in life, well, sort of but at the age of 22. Up
>>until that point, my career goals were already starting to fall in place
>> as
>>I had graduated from a program where I was already working as a registered
>>x-ray technologist (radiologic technologist), but then decided to pursue
>>another field within diagnostic medicine, diagnostic medical Sonography
>>(ultrasound). It was during this time, actually at the end of the first
>> of
>>2 internships that I became gravely ill, and ended up withdrawing from the
>>program only to lose my sight within 4 months after that. After receiving
>>
>>a
>>very successful kidney/pancreas transplant, I finally got back on my feet
>>only to get my first dog guide, enroll at a State University and pursue a
>>BS in Community Health Education, and eventually my Master's. With my
>>skills and background in the medical field, it would be a sheer waste to
>>not
>>take those skills and use them in another fashion. I ended up reentering
>>the job market a couple of years later, and was now working in the Human
>>Service Field which I see as a subset of the broader medical umbrella, and
>>worked for our regional Independent Living Center as an Independent Living
>>Specialist. I was fortunate to coordinate many programs and projects
>> while
>>employed with this agency, and even ended up working in the employment
>>field
>>for 6 years under a Federal Grant program called the Disability Navigator
>>Program working through our State's Job Center System. After this grant
>>ended, I knew it was time to move on, and began working for county
>>government, as a Social Service specialist and more specifically, with the
>>ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) which works with adults with
>>physical and developmental disabilities as well as frail elders in making
>>sure that they remained in the community and received the programs and
>>services they needed in order to remain in their homes and not nursing
>>facilities. Since that time almost 4 years ago, I have taken on a new
>>challenge within county government as of this past September, and now work
>>in the Child Protective Service section doing CPS intake as well as intake
>>and I&A for persons who have AODA backgrounds as well as mental health
>>issues. I am also a self-taught JAWS user, and am very proficient in
>> using
>>this program as we are accessing many databases and tools for ever report
>>we
>>take as we are essentially starting the investigation process in finding
>>more about the alleged maltreaters so the workers can have more insight as
>>to what these individuals' backgrounds have been like. In a nutshell,
>> this
>>has all been done in the past 22 years since my transplants, and I have
>>accomplished more in this time as a person who is totally blind than in
>> all
>>of the years previously as a sighted person. Like so many, I have gone
>>from
>>the benefit roles to the payroles, have purchased a home, continue to do
>>all of those things I had when I was sighted including continuing to be an
>>avid outdoorsman, e.g. hunter/fisher. I attended no training program for
>>the blind, and have done everything I have because of my attitude. I used
>>the skills I learned as a sighted person, and simply, transferred them to
>>that of being blind. My reputation and integrity has always been
>> something
>>I will not compromise, and continue to be involved in multiple volunteer
>>organizations outside of my 40 hour week, but choose those things that are
>>passionate to me, and those things that I know that there needs to be
>>representation from the larger disability community. At one point, I was
>>involved in approximately 26 additional commitments outside of work, but
>>have since cut that down to those things truly important to me, and those
>>things that I know are not a waste of my time, and more importantly,
>>others'
>>time. Note: I am pretty sure that my passion for being involved with so
>>many things may have been a slight barrier to achieving one of my other
>>life
>>goals, and that is to settle down and get married:) But I assure you that
>>this one I still continue to work on. (grin)
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:25 AM
>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>>Peter,
>>
>>I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult. Perhaps you, or
>>someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
>>
>> From a young age, I wanted to work with animals. I started training dogs
>>
>> in
>>high school. I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot. I decided to go to
>>college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse. At
>>this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction. I was
>>never taught a single alternative skill. I didn't even know about CCTV's
>>or
>>large print. This was before computers were mainstream.
>>
>>I didn't do so well in college. Partly that was because I lost a major
>>portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
>>skills. But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
>>college or at least not the classroom part! I was 17 when I started
>>college. I had lived a fairly sheltered life. My parents didn't go out
>>of
>>
>>their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
>>However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
>>I
>>also feared doing many things because I didn't know how. I could have
>>taken
>>the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.
>> I
>>isolated myself.
>>
>>I gave up on veterinary technology. Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
>>am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had. If I had
>> not
>>lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would
>> not
>>be where I am now. I love my life. If I could go back and change
>>anything,
>>I don't think I would. I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I
>> could
>>learn and grow.
>>
>>I'll fast forward a few years. I met a lot of people in college, made
>> many
>>friends, one of them being my first husband. I had figured out that there
>>were services for blind people, by accident. I was starting to see
>>possibilities.
>>
>>We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
>>to finish my associates degree in sociology. Still no mainstream
>>computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
>>talking books and RFB&D for textbooks. My rehab counselor was my gateway
>>to all things blindness related. I didn't know a single blind person.
>>
>>Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
>>changed
>>dramatically. Now it was no longer about getting by or making do. I
>>needed
>>to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else. I
>>learned Braille and cane travel right away. My rehab counselor and
>> teacher
>>brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
>>cane. they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools. But when
>> they
>>left I practiced like a mad woman. I was only given the first ten letters
>>of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
>>had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
>>think of with those ten letters. I took my cane when I went places. I
>>wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
>>
>>I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on. these
>>weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops. I
>> met
>>other blind people. I soaked up everything like a sponge. I eavesdropped
>>on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
>>me. My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly. Before I met
>>other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
>>would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher. After I met blind
>>people
>>who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
>>and
>>mothers I had hope for myself.
>>
>>I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
>>sociology. I had no job prospects. My husband wanted to finish his
>> degree
>>in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
>>was located. So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
>>training.
>>
>>I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for
>> the
>>blind. they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
>>choices. I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
>>through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
>>students.
>>
>>The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
>>much time out of my life if I could at all help it. From the first day I
>>was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
>>months. I asked what I needed to do to make that happen. No delaying, no
>>messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
>>homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months. I read
>>Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
>>evenings
>>on my own. I pushed myself hard. I finished in three and a half months.
>>
>>As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
>>connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor. I started
>>working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training. It was a
>>good job. It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
>>understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck. However it also
>> showed
>>me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized. I needed to
>>work
>>more directly with people. I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
>>it.
>>
>>In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
>>student. I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
>>health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
>>invested,
>>causing myself way too much stress. I got divorced and became a single
>>Mom.
>>
>>I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
>>roommates.
>>
>>Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
>>started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
>>government. I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to
>> manage
>>all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in. I had
>>basic skills I felt I could apply. I had good connections with other
>> blind
>>people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the
>> skills
>>and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do. The most valuable
>>skills
>>a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
>>problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself. Some good basic
>>training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support
>> you
>>are also important.
>>
>>To answer your specific questions...
>>*How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
>>know which fields to go into being blind? *
>>
>>My answer, I didn't.
>>I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
>>skills. I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
>>could.
>>
>>I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
>>the
>>park. The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
>>listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
>>I learned to problem solve on the fly.
>>
>>*How did you overcome or continue to
>>overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>>economy and other adverse situations? *
>>
>>My answer. I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
>>illustrate how I have managed.
>>My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded. this means
>> it
>>is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
>>year to the next. I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
>>uncertainty. Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
>>decent
>>amount of job security. After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
>>Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money. I attend the
>>training workshops on grant writing so I can get better. I have applied
>>for
>>and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs. I started an
>>adult diversion program that is fee based. Last year our grant was cut.
>> I
>>lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut. However because I
>>had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
>>
>>There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year
>> that
>>could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
>>justice in Nebraska. I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
>>year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from. It
>>causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
>>work. I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
>>supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
>>
>>In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business. It will take
>>
>>a
>>good year for it to be fully functional and making money. If all goes
>> well
>>it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
>>something
>>to fall back on. I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio. I
>>have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
>>another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
>>
>>As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go. Since I've started
>>my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
>>our statistical reporting. It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
>>charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
>>There
>>are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people. It has taken
>> four
>>years, but finally everything is working as it should.
>>
>>I just bought an iPad late last summer. I have never had any training on
>>how to use it. I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
>>out of the box. The first few days were frustrating because it is so
>>different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it. I have
>>learned how to use it by trial and error. When I get stuck I ask the nice
>>folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
>>devices. I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
>>internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
>>
>>I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
>>what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it. I figure if I do
>>nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year. If I try something,
>> I
>>have the chance to better myself. I might not make the right decision or
>>do
>>the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what
>>
>>I
>>learn is what doesn't work.
>>All my best,
>>Julie
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindtlk mailing list
>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>blindtlk:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne
>>t
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindtlk mailing list
>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindtlk:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 18:33:36 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <auto-000102265356 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Rehab traditionally called the persons receiving services
> clients. However, for some, myself included, this word evokes a
> medical or one-way social services model, and gives power to the
> rehab folks. So, the terms consumer, or customer came into
> use. They both lean towards the person being able to choose to take,
> or not to take services, have some control over what those services are
> etc.
>
> There isn't a perfect word -- but to me, either customer, or consumer
> is preferable to client.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:43 PM 3/23/2013, you wrote:
>> Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
>>rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
>>inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
>>Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
>>demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
>>things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
>>looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
>>deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 21:01:49 -0400
> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIZZxuAcXbBMjwXShRiTFiICgQAAEAAAABLnFiYaAKFLm/XZY80CHo4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'm not quite sure how to respond to your version of logic accept to
> challenge you to consult that dictionary again. The word "consumer" does
> not
> refer to someone who is nonproductive or isn't expected to produce.
>
> I have heard insurance providers, the medical profession and any number of
> other service providers refer to their patrons as "consumers."
>
> If I go shopping at Wal-Mart, I am most commonly referred to as a customer,
> but might also be referred to as a consumer.
>
> Diane Graves
>
>
> Diane Graves
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Wolfe
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:08 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>
> Diane,
>
>
> Do you know anything in business like in the sense of terms? My family
> has owned three business with numerous contractual and business ventures
> and
> this consumer vs producer relationship is unique the disabled community. In
> a normal business, you are considered a customer meaning that you consum
> but
> assume the producer element with that status as well. A consumer title is
> meant to degrade and defile the blind to a status that assumes that we
> never
> have produce, won't produce or will find great difficulty in producing in
> the process of being trained or being hired and even employed. Yes, the
> client is a perminent relationship with a counselor like case management
> that is of a hierarchical nature not of what I speak about in general terms
> at all. Alas, I'd mention that linking the two consumer and producer more
> described than in Consumer reports that is to say that certain populations
> need protection that implies a status to it. In our case, we don't have the
> freedom of being disabled or not, so I could quote numerous rehabilitation
> staff whether in Washingtion D.C in Washington Center, E.H Gentry Technical
> Facility in Talladega Al or Lion's World Center in Little Rock Ark with
> this
> philosophy and that isn't just limited to those institutions by no means.
> BTW: I've also lived in Texas, New Mexico, Nevada and have worked in SBA
> and
> Red Stone Arsonal as well.
>
> On 3/23/13, Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Blind people are considered consumers in this arena because they are
>> being provided a service. That service may be blindness skills
>> training or it may be educational services. It may also be job placement.
>>
>> Whatever the case may be, they are clients/consumers. The words are
>> one in the same. An attorney, for example might choose to call his
>> clients consumers of his services.
>>
>> If a sighted person applies for financial aide to go to school, they
>> are a consumer.
>> The word consumer doesn't mean that you aren't producing or can't
>> produce.
>> I
>> challenge you to find a dictionary definition which links the two
> concepts.
>>
>> Diane Graves
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>> Wolfe
>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:43 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>>
>> Why are blind people considered consumers in much of rehabilitation?
>> They
>> aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed inferior even by fellow
>> blind professions who work at such facilities.
>> Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
>> demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
>> things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
>> looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
>> deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
>>
>>
>> sincerely,
>> Peter
>>
>> On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>> Diane,
>>>
>>> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
>>>
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Diane Graves
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>>>
>>> Good Evening,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
>>> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
>>> having deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I
>>> apologize in advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject
>>> line on purpose, just in case there were others doing the same.
>>> However, tonight I am up late baking and have read a number of the
>>> posts, and feel compelled to share my sentiments on a few things, or
>>> the facts as I see them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one
>>> participant in the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I
>>> hear him saying that we in the federation need to "wake up and smell
>>> the coffee" and accept the fact that blindness does make us inferior.
>>> On the other hand, this same individual is saying that we need to
>>> come together to fight discrimination against the blind. If you,
>>> yourself, believe that you are inferior, then why should society stop
>>> discriminating? In fact, how can they stop discriminating? Why should
>>> employers hire us, and lessen that 70% unemployment rate, if we
>>> aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one
>>> size fits all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a
>>> like any more than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike.
>>> There are sighted people who are excellent construction workers, who
>>> do not have the people skills business prowess and any number of
>>> other skills necessary to be the CEO of a corporation. That CEO
>>> might not have the athletic prowess to fight his way out of a cardboard
> box.
>>> That doesn't make either one of them inferior. They're just different.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
>>> can't perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are
>>> just as varied in our abilities as the sighted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but
>>> also have a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a
>>> number of blind people who can run circles around me in the mobility
>>> arena, simply because they have the benefit of that good hearing. The
>>> fact that I have trouble at times, doesn't mean that they face the
>>> same drawbacks and that their skills are not excellent and far above
> mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer
>>> Braille to any other media, whereas there are other blind people who
>>> prefer to listen to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good
>>> enough that I could certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just
>>> get more out of a book when actively reading it myself. Some of those
>>> people with the superb mobility skills may not have the same prowess
>>> in Braille that I do. We are all different.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
>>> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
>>> their money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start
>>> talking about programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact
>>> that I can't do it, doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I
>>> hear this person telling us that we are a cookie cutter
>>> organization, while at the same time cutting his own cookies by
>>> telling us that we are all severely limited.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We
>>> have Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes
>>> and those who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any
>>> variation that you could think of. What unites us is our desire and
>>> our intent to fight the discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist
>>> who believed that there was only one way of doing things and one
>>> standard as it relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra
>>> of the organization at all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you
>>> can't take my dreams.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Diane Graves
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roa
>>> d
>>> runner.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> cum laude Auburn University
>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> Peter Q Wolfe
>> "Stand up for your rights"
>> Bob Marley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
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>> 40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> blindtlk:
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>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
> l.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 21:18:17 -0400
> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIZZxuAcXbBMjwXShRiTFiICgQAAEAAAABJTIbuqe7ZHqzQ8PM6bnHoBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Julie,
>
> Thanks so much for sharing your story. I'd be interested in hearing about
> your web based business. Can you talk some about that? What type of book
> are
> you writing?
>
> Diane Graves
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:25 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
> Peter,
>
> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult. Perhaps you, or
> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
>
> >From a young age, I wanted to work with animals. I started training dogs
>>in
> high school. I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot. I decided to go to
> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse. At
> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction. I was
> never taught a single alternative skill. I didn't even know about CCTV's
> or
> large print. This was before computers were mainstream.
>
> I didn't do so well in college. Partly that was because I lost a major
> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> skills. But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> college or at least not the classroom part! I was 17 when I started
> college. I had lived a fairly sheltered life. My parents didn't go out
> of
>
> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
> I
> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how. I could have
> taken
> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid. I
> isolated myself.
>
> I gave up on veterinary technology. Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had. If I had not
> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> be where I am now. I love my life. If I could go back and change
> anything,
> I don't think I would. I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> learn and grow.
>
> I'll fast forward a few years. I met a lot of people in college, made many
> friends, one of them being my first husband. I had figured out that there
> were services for blind people, by accident. I was starting to see
> possibilities.
>
> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> to finish my associates degree in sociology. Still no mainstream
> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks. My rehab counselor was my gateway
> to all things blindness related. I didn't know a single blind person.
>
> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
> changed
> dramatically. Now it was no longer about getting by or making do. I
> needed
> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else. I
> learned Braille and cane travel right away. My rehab counselor and teacher
> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> cane. they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools. But when they
> left I practiced like a mad woman. I was only given the first ten letters
> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> think of with those ten letters. I took my cane when I went places. I
> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
>
> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on. these
> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops. I met
> other blind people. I soaked up everything like a sponge. I eavesdropped
> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> me. My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly. Before I met
> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher. After I met blind
> people
> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
> and
> mothers I had hope for myself.
>
> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> sociology. I had no job prospects. My husband wanted to finish his degree
> in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> was located. So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
> training.
>
> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> blind. they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> choices. I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> students.
>
> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> much time out of my life if I could at all help it. From the first day I
> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> months. I asked what I needed to do to make that happen. No delaying, no
> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months. I read
> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
> evenings
> on my own. I pushed myself hard. I finished in three and a half months.
>
> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor. I started
> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training. It was a
> good job. It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck. However it also showed
> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized. I needed to
> work
> more directly with people. I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
> it.
>
> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> student. I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
> invested,
> causing myself way too much stress. I got divorced and became a single
> Mom.
>
> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> roommates.
>
> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> government. I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in. I had
> basic skills I felt I could apply. I had good connections with other blind
> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do. The most valuable
> skills
> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself. Some good basic
> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> are also important.
>
> To answer your specific questions...
> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> know which fields to go into being blind? *
>
> My answer, I didn't.
> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> skills. I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
> could.
>
> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
> the
> park. The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
>
> *How did you overcome or continue to
> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> economy and other adverse situations? *
>
> My answer. I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> illustrate how I have managed.
> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded. this means it
> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> year to the next. I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> uncertainty. Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
> decent
> amount of job security. After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money. I attend the
> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better. I have applied
> for
> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs. I started an
> adult diversion program that is fee based. Last year our grant was cut. I
> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut. However because I
> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
>
> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> justice in Nebraska. I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from. It
> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> work. I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
>
> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business. It will take
> a
> good year for it to be fully functional and making money. If all goes well
> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
> something
> to fall back on. I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio. I
> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
>
> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go. Since I've started
> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> our statistical reporting. It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
> There
> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people. It has taken four
> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
>
> I just bought an iPad late last summer. I have never had any training on
> how to use it. I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> out of the box. The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it. I have
> learned how to use it by trial and error. When I get stuck I ask the nice
> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> devices. I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
>
> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it. I figure if I do
> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year. If I try something, I
> have the chance to better myself. I might not make the right decision or
> do
> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what
> I
> learn is what doesn't work.
> All my best,
> Julie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
> l.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:36:25 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np0LH3a6SFX6HY4urY5Buo4MVeqL5Do8E4LQ+s8VPd8jYA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Mike,
>
>
> Thanks for your e-mail even if it assumes things that I don't
> believe in or have stated! Much of what you said that I covered in my
> questions e-mail! Anyways, I do appreciate the sincere effort and have
> heard of oddities of feats of some blind people that can have multiple
> reasons not just one reason like having vision prior like a medical
> doctor in ACB in Houston, Texas just a small example with former sight
> or whatever.
>
>
> What type of computer programming do you do Mike or have done in
> your past jobs? I'm curious cause this is something that is a hobby of
> mine and something that I've become rusty in as well. My thing is that
> I don't know nemeth code and was openly discouraged by the Principle
> of American School for the Blind and was openly referred to get my GED
> not my high school diploma because of that conversation that we had. I
> also wonder with shifting software that has it become easier in your
> jobs or harder to keep up especially with unfamilar technology
> unaccessible to the blind? I wonder how flexible the employers whether
> private or public have been in such scenarios?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
> On 3/24/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
>> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine
>> work
>> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years
>> because
>>
>> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as
>> popular
>> or important than white collar jobs.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>>
>>> Peter:
>>>
>>> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy and
>>> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor
>>> becomes
>>> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again. I
>>> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
>>> might
>>> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
>>> about
>>> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
>>> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
>>> worries
>>> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
>>>
>>> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
>>> asking
>>> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within
>>> the
>>> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of us
>>> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers and
>>> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone else,
>>> you
>>> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
>>> interests
>>> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
>>> whatever
>>> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that
>>> you
>>> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might not
>>> be
>>> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the case
>>> and
>>> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a blind
>>> man
>>> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
>>> electricians,
>>> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
>>> blind
>>> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I met
>>> a
>>> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day job
>>> but
>>> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department employed
>>> him
>>> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the
>>> misfortune
>>>
>>> of
>>> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
>>> water
>>> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
>>> couldn't
>>> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his
>>> hobby
>>> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
>>> since
>>> that I didn't get the guy's name.
>>>
>>> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this
>>> one
>>> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind
>>> person.
>>>
>>> Or
>>> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while, Federation
>>> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
>>> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind person
>>> and
>>> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
>>> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high
>>> school
>>> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a
>>> while
>>> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
>>> that
>>> query.
>>>
>>> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
>>> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
>>> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies to
>>> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
>>> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat here
>>> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
>>> recognize
>>> this.
>>>
>>> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
>>>
>>> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of
>>> the
>>> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that
>>> there
>>>
>>> is
>>> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
>>> misguided
>>> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools and
>>> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
>>>
>>> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
>>> least
>>> at first, but there it is.
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>>> Wolfe
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>
>>> cheryl,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
>>> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
>>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
>>> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
>>> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
>>> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
>>> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
>>> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
>>> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
>>> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
>>> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
>>> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
>>> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
>>> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
>>> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
>>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>>> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
>>> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
>>> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
>>> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
>>> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
>>> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
>>> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
>>> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
>>> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
>>> the real economy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Good morning all:
>>>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college
>>>> graduate
>>> of
>>>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
>>>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help
>>>> me
>>>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the things
>>>> I
>>>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
>>>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
>>>> hearing
>>>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also
>>>> good
>>>> knife skills.
>>>> The business part always helps in any profession.
>>>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an office/sales
>>>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
>>>> 2001
>>> as
>>>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
>>> company
>>>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due to
>>>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
>>>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained by
>>>> the
>>>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to be
>>>> a
>>>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked as
>>>> a
>>>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other testing
>>>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
>>> 2009,
>>>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have
>>>> been
>>>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY as
>>> well
>>>> as by Governor Cuomo.
>>>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do it.
>>>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight for
>>> all
>>>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
>>>> Cheryl
>>>>
>>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
>>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>>>>
>>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
>>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
>>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>>>> Federation
>>> of
>>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>>>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
>>> vacation
>>>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
>>>> must
>>> be
>>>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go
>>>> to
>>> the
>>>> affiliate. Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
>>>> families
>>>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
>>>> affiliate
>>>> as well. You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
>>>> through
>>>> us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
>>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>> There is a wealth of information available on various professions
>>>>> blind
>>>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
>>>>> challenging
>>>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have not
>>> yet
>>>>>
>>>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional
>>>>> musician
>>>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
>>>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
>>>>> saddam
>>>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas employment
>>>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in
>>>>> Psychology
>>>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. I
>>>>> am
>>>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
>>>>> though
>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
>>>>> Director.
>>>>> When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
>>> Health
>>>>> &
>>>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com) I
>>>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. I
>>>>> share
>>>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use all
>>> your
>>>>>
>>>>> assets as you network with others!
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>> 813-626-2789
>>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
>>>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
>>>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
>>>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood.
>>>>> > I
>>>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list
>>>>> > are
>>>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
>>>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history
>>>>> > and
>>>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
>>>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself
>>>>> > out
>>>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thank you,
>>>>> > Peter
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> > for
>>>>> > blindtlk:
>>>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
>>> l.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cordially,
>>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>>> cum laude Auburn University
>>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>>> Peter Q Wolfe
>>> "Stand up for your rights"
>>> Bob Marley
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:41:41 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np3YK9j6ONqwg3KojwSopzsx0oKTqK1uMoskuAj=MTStvw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Mike,
>
>
> What is for dinner? I just disagree with the labels of disabled
> people or in fact the world disabled in the first place. What is
> fundamentally broken by a blind person? I don't like handicapped,
> disabled, consumer, client or any of it. I'd rather have participant
> or customer would be okay as well just not consumer. It implies a
> causality that and it reduces you to a number.
>
>
> First and foremost that we're all individuals right? I've had a
> local taxi company in Auburn of my former college city call me "Blind
> Pete". Can you imagine how enraged that they wouldn't change me for
> two years just tcontiniously calling me "Blind Pete" even saved in
> their contacts as that name too. Its like people attempt to turn you
> into a object that dcan be treated less than a normal homo sapien.
> Anyone else with similar experiences? This drives me insaine that way
> don't usually ever gets to me but lately not as easy to do.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
> On 3/24/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Peter:
>>
>> You're obsessing about the word "consumer" too much. In using that word,
>> both rehab and most blind persons merely mean a designation of someone
>> receiving services and, if we are honest, it's also a way to avoid the
>> word
>> "client" which some of us hate. Frankly, I don't care what you call me as
>> long as you call me for dinner. (grin) Our state department of services
>> for
>> the blind calls those whom it serves "customers".
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>> Wolfe
>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:43 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>>
>> Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
>> rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
>> inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
>> Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
>> demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
>> things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
>> looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
>> deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
>>
>>
>> sincerely,
>> Peter
>>
>> On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>> Diane,
>>>
>>> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
>>>
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Diane Graves
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>>>
>>> Good Evening,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
>>> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
>>> having
>>> deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize in
>>> advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
>>> just
>>> in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
>>> baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share
>>> my
>>> sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one participant
>> in
>>> the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
>> that
>>> we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept
>>> the
>>> fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
>>> individual is saying that we need to come together to fight
>>> discrimination
>>> against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, then
>>> why
>>> should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
>>> discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
>>> unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
>>> fits
>>> all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any more
>>> than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are
>>> sighted
>>> people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the
>>> people
>>> skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be
>>> the
>>> CEO of a corporation. That CEO might not have the athletic prowess to
>>> fight his way out of a cardboard box. That doesn't make either one of
>> them
>>> inferior. They're just different.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
>> can't
>>> perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
>>> varied in our abilities as the sighted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
>> have
>>> a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of blind
>>> people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply
>>> because
>>> they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have trouble
>> at
>>> times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
>> skills
>>> are not excellent and far above mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
>>> to
>>> any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
>>> listen
>>> to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
>>> certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
>> when
>>> actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb
>>> mobility
>>> skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
>>> different.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
>>> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
>> their
>>> money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
>>> about
>>> programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do it,
>>> doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I hear
>>> this person telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while
>>> at
>>> the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
>>> severely
>>> limited.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
>>> Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
>>> those
>>> who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that you
>>> could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight the
>>> discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
>>> believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard as
>> it
>>> relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
>>> organization
>>> at all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
>> take
>>> my dreams.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Diane Graves
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date:
>>> 03/21/13
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> cum laude Auburn University
>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> Peter Q Wolfe
>> "Stand up for your rights"
>> Bob Marley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:48:20 -0500
> From: sarah harris <sarahandfamily at live.com>
> To: "blindtlk at nfbnet.org" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindtlk] product advice
> Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS15580836867CA1A40392490B7D70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Good evening. I recently sold a Pac Mate omni and am considering all my
> options. would it be better in the long run to buy a notetaker, or should I
>
> just buy a braille display I can use with apple devices or a pc? what would
>
> be the best device to use in an employment setting if i needed to take
> notes? Thank you.
> Sarah Harris
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:23:13 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] product advice
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np1YtmJL2CBFEDi1CkWg_8b2vRx5Hq4srMd44tC16YS8HQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> What type of work are you planning on doing with this notetaking
> device? A profession to me determines the appropriate tools that and
> your personality type as well. In general, the notetaker is preferable
> not for me but for the majority that it suffices. I choose to blend in
> with existing technology that I don't need to modify as much to
> instantly share my devices, information with compatable formats or to
> show visually with nonforeign technology with my peers that is just
> me. I don't want to call attention to my blindness not adding to it in
> a job setting. Hope this gives you another prospective cause I've used
> Braille Note M-Power 32 saille and undergone training in IRS that has
> a SEAT standard of working with braille displays so it helps to know
> more info the help out with questions like this.
>
>
> hope this helps,
> Peter
>
> On 3/24/13, sarah harris <sarahandfamily at live.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good evening. I recently sold a Pac Mate omni and am considering all
>> my
>> options. would it be better in the long run to buy a notetaker, or should
>>
>> I
>> just buy a braille display I can use with apple devices or a pc? what
>> would
>> be the best device to use in an employment setting if i needed to take
>> notes? Thank you.
>> Sarah Harris
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 02:33:16 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: <blinddog3 at charter.net>, "'Blind Talk Mailing List'"
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <00ac01ce2859$782a46c0$687ed440$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Go get them. Steeve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
> Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
> Peter, I have been reading these threads for quite some time now, and
> decided to finally chime in.
>
> I too lost my sight later in life, well, sort of but at the age of 22. Up
> until that point, my career goals were already starting to fall in place as
> I had graduated from a program where I was already working as a registered
> x-ray technologist (radiologic technologist), but then decided to pursue
> another field within diagnostic medicine, diagnostic medical Sonography
> (ultrasound). It was during this time, actually at the end of the first of
> 2 internships that I became gravely ill, and ended up withdrawing from the
> program only to lose my sight within 4 months after that. After receiving
> a
> very successful kidney/pancreas transplant, I finally got back on my feet
> only to get my first dog guide, enroll at a State University and pursue a
> BS in Community Health Education, and eventually my Master's. With my
> skills and background in the medical field, it would be a sheer waste to
> not
> take those skills and use them in another fashion. I ended up reentering
> the job market a couple of years later, and was now working in the Human
> Service Field which I see as a subset of the broader medical umbrella, and
> worked for our regional Independent Living Center as an Independent Living
> Specialist. I was fortunate to coordinate many programs and projects while
> employed with this agency, and even ended up working in the employment
> field
> for 6 years under a Federal Grant program called the Disability Navigator
> Program working through our State's Job Center System. After this grant
> ended, I knew it was time to move on, and began working for county
> government, as a Social Service specialist and more specifically, with the
> ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) which works with adults with
> physical and developmental disabilities as well as frail elders in making
> sure that they remained in the community and received the programs and
> services they needed in order to remain in their homes and not nursing
> facilities. Since that time almost 4 years ago, I have taken on a new
> challenge within county government as of this past September, and now work
> in the Child Protective Service section doing CPS intake as well as intake
> and I&A for persons who have AODA backgrounds as well as mental health
> issues. I am also a self-taught JAWS user, and am very proficient in using
> this program as we are accessing many databases and tools for ever report
> we
> take as we are essentially starting the investigation process in finding
> more about the alleged maltreaters so the workers can have more insight as
> to what these individuals' backgrounds have been like. In a nutshell, this
> has all been done in the past 22 years since my transplants, and I have
> accomplished more in this time as a person who is totally blind than in all
> of the years previously as a sighted person. Like so many, I have gone
> from
> the benefit roles to the payroles, have purchased a home, continue to do
> all of those things I had when I was sighted including continuing to be an
> avid outdoorsman, e.g. hunter/fisher. I attended no training program for
> the blind, and have done everything I have because of my attitude. I used
> the skills I learned as a sighted person, and simply, transferred them to
> that of being blind. My reputation and integrity has always been something
> I will not compromise, and continue to be involved in multiple volunteer
> organizations outside of my 40 hour week, but choose those things that are
> passionate to me, and those things that I know that there needs to be
> representation from the larger disability community. At one point, I was
> involved in approximately 26 additional commitments outside of work, but
> have since cut that down to those things truly important to me, and those
> things that I know are not a waste of my time, and more importantly,
> others'
> time. Note: I am pretty sure that my passion for being involved with so
> many things may have been a slight barrier to achieving one of my other
> life
> goals, and that is to settle down and get married:) But I assure you that
> this one I still continue to work on. (grin)
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:25 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
> Peter,
>
> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult. Perhaps you, or
> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
>
> >From a young age, I wanted to work with animals. I started training dogs
>>in
> high school. I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot. I decided to go to
> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse. At
> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction. I was
> never taught a single alternative skill. I didn't even know about CCTV's
> or
> large print. This was before computers were mainstream.
>
> I didn't do so well in college. Partly that was because I lost a major
> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> skills. But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> college or at least not the classroom part! I was 17 when I started
> college. I had lived a fairly sheltered life. My parents didn't go out
> of
>
> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
> I
> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how. I could have
> taken
> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid. I
> isolated myself.
>
> I gave up on veterinary technology. Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had. If I had not
> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> be where I am now. I love my life. If I could go back and change
> anything,
> I don't think I would. I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> learn and grow.
>
> I'll fast forward a few years. I met a lot of people in college, made many
> friends, one of them being my first husband. I had figured out that there
> were services for blind people, by accident. I was starting to see
> possibilities.
>
> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> to finish my associates degree in sociology. Still no mainstream
> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks. My rehab counselor was my gateway
> to all things blindness related. I didn't know a single blind person.
>
> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
> changed
> dramatically. Now it was no longer about getting by or making do. I
> needed
> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else. I
> learned Braille and cane travel right away. My rehab counselor and teacher
> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> cane. they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools. But when they
> left I practiced like a mad woman. I was only given the first ten letters
> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> think of with those ten letters. I took my cane when I went places. I
> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
>
> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on. these
> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops. I met
> other blind people. I soaked up everything like a sponge. I eavesdropped
> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> me. My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly. Before I met
> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher. After I met blind
> people
> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
> and
> mothers I had hope for myself.
>
> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> sociology. I had no job prospects. My husband wanted to finish his degree
> in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> was located. So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
> training.
>
> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> blind. they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> choices. I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> students.
>
> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> much time out of my life if I could at all help it. From the first day I
> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> months. I asked what I needed to do to make that happen. No delaying, no
> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months. I read
> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
> evenings
> on my own. I pushed myself hard. I finished in three and a half months.
>
> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor. I started
> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training. It was a
> good job. It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck. However it also showed
> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized. I needed to
> work
> more directly with people. I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
> it.
>
> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> student. I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
> invested,
> causing myself way too much stress. I got divorced and became a single
> Mom.
>
> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> roommates.
>
> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> government. I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in. I had
> basic skills I felt I could apply. I had good connections with other blind
> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do. The most valuable
> skills
> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself. Some good basic
> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> are also important.
>
> To answer your specific questions...
> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> know which fields to go into being blind? *
>
> My answer, I didn't.
> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> skills. I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
> could.
>
> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
> the
> park. The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
>
> *How did you overcome or continue to
> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> economy and other adverse situations? *
>
> My answer. I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> illustrate how I have managed.
> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded. this means it
> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> year to the next. I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> uncertainty. Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
> decent
> amount of job security. After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money. I attend the
> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better. I have applied
> for
> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs. I started an
> adult diversion program that is fee based. Last year our grant was cut. I
> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut. However because I
> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
>
> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> justice in Nebraska. I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from. It
> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> work. I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
>
> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business. It will take
> a
> good year for it to be fully functional and making money. If all goes well
> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
> something
> to fall back on. I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio. I
> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
>
> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go. Since I've started
> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> our statistical reporting. It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
> There
> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people. It has taken four
> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
>
> I just bought an iPad late last summer. I have never had any training on
> how to use it. I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> out of the box. The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it. I have
> learned how to use it by trial and error. When I get stuck I ask the nice
> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> devices. I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
>
> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it. I figure if I do
> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year. If I try something, I
> have the chance to better myself. I might not make the right decision or
> do
> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what
> I
> learn is what doesn't work.
> All my best,
> Julie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> t
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
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> il.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 02:41:19 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <00db01ce285a$982e1e50$c88a5af0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Wow, Julie, You're kind of, well sort of just a little bit awesome.
> Determination, Tanacity, and ferocity all roled into one. What a career.
> Next drink I have, I'll be raising one to you.
> Cheers.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:25 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
> Peter,
>
> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult. Perhaps you, or
> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
>
> >From a young age, I wanted to work with animals. I started training dogs
>>in
> high school. I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot. I decided to go to
> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse. At
> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction. I was
> never taught a single alternative skill. I didn't even know about CCTV's
> or
> large print. This was before computers were mainstream.
>
> I didn't do so well in college. Partly that was because I lost a major
> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> skills. But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> college or at least not the classroom part! I was 17 when I started
> college. I had lived a fairly sheltered life. My parents didn't go out
> of
>
> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
> I
> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how. I could have
> taken
> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid. I
> isolated myself.
>
> I gave up on veterinary technology. Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had. If I had not
> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> be where I am now. I love my life. If I could go back and change
> anything,
> I don't think I would. I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> learn and grow.
>
> I'll fast forward a few years. I met a lot of people in college, made many
> friends, one of them being my first husband. I had figured out that there
> were services for blind people, by accident. I was starting to see
> possibilities.
>
> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> to finish my associates degree in sociology. Still no mainstream
> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks. My rehab counselor was my gateway
> to all things blindness related. I didn't know a single blind person.
>
> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
> changed
> dramatically. Now it was no longer about getting by or making do. I
> needed
> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else. I
> learned Braille and cane travel right away. My rehab counselor and teacher
> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> cane. they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools. But when they
> left I practiced like a mad woman. I was only given the first ten letters
> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> think of with those ten letters. I took my cane when I went places. I
> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
>
> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on. these
> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops. I met
> other blind people. I soaked up everything like a sponge. I eavesdropped
> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> me. My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly. Before I met
> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher. After I met blind
> people
> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
> and
> mothers I had hope for myself.
>
> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> sociology. I had no job prospects. My husband wanted to finish his degree
> in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> was located. So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
> training.
>
> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> blind. they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> choices. I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> students.
>
> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> much time out of my life if I could at all help it. From the first day I
> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> months. I asked what I needed to do to make that happen. No delaying, no
> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months. I read
> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
> evenings
> on my own. I pushed myself hard. I finished in three and a half months.
>
> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor. I started
> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training. It was a
> good job. It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck. However it also showed
> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized. I needed to
> work
> more directly with people. I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
> it.
>
> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> student. I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
> invested,
> causing myself way too much stress. I got divorced and became a single
> Mom.
>
> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> roommates.
>
> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> government. I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in. I had
> basic skills I felt I could apply. I had good connections with other blind
> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do. The most valuable
> skills
> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself. Some good basic
> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> are also important.
>
> To answer your specific questions...
> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> know which fields to go into being blind? *
>
> My answer, I didn't.
> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> skills. I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
> could.
>
> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
> the
> park. The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
>
> *How did you overcome or continue to
> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> economy and other adverse situations? *
>
> My answer. I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> illustrate how I have managed.
> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded. this means it
> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> year to the next. I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> uncertainty. Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
> decent
> amount of job security. After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money. I attend the
> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better. I have applied
> for
> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs. I started an
> adult diversion program that is fee based. Last year our grant was cut. I
> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut. However because I
> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
>
> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> justice in Nebraska. I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from. It
> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> work. I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
>
> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business. It will take
> a
> good year for it to be fully functional and making money. If all goes well
> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
> something
> to fall back on. I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio. I
> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
>
> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go. Since I've started
> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> our statistical reporting. It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
> There
> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people. It has taken four
> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
>
> I just bought an iPad late last summer. I have never had any training on
> how to use it. I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> out of the box. The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it. I have
> learned how to use it by trial and error. When I get stuck I ask the nice
> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> devices. I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
>
> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it. I figure if I do
> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year. If I try something, I
> have the chance to better myself. I might not make the right decision or
> do
> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what
> I
> learn is what doesn't work.
> All my best,
> Julie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gma
> il.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:46:44 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np3h3hq=mzkOqeiouSOHcbsoxzQbvRxs0yxW3K3knX1Uhw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Steve,
>
>
> Thanks for this story cause it helped shed some light on anotther
> prospective of rehabilitation for others like me. I still have lots of
> questions on your decision process of being employed and choosing your
> major post-blindness within your field. You had to think rationally
> that you can't do what you formerly did, so picked the next best thing
> with blindness. So, I wonder what all did you put into consideration
> in that transition and what helped you prepare for jobs?
>
>
> What stops lots of blind people including me is the word "Database
> in any requirements that we think that we cannot do as well as others.
> I also want to prepare for the requirements not said in the posting,
> so continue seeking employment and all even with private companies
> like h insurance companies and the alike. I am going for training for
> Jaws but haven't recieved my software. I guess the narrative is the
> scary part is being on my own like I once was with my sight. If I fail
> then there is no social support net like others on here like me. My
> family is out of the picture in any financial or social commitment
> towards me so that makes my decisions weigh that much for it. Hard to
> explain the challenges cause its hard to find a job with my degree of
> poli sci.
>
>
> Lastly, if any of you have any ideas just feel free to share them
> with me. I realize poli sci isn't a turminal degree so thought about
> human resources, financial aid advisor,, Veterns Administration,
> Social Security representative or something else. I have also lost the
> ability of normal application process of normal sighted people in this
> tribulation too. I don't know how even normal people unskilled like me
> can meet the requirements of the job. Maybe perhaps none of this makes
> any sense to you guys just feel so insecure with the future. I've
> already had three jobs not lead to a career and hard not to feel
> discouraged by this point.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
> On 3/24/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Go get them. Steeve.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
>> Johnson
>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:22 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>> Peter, I have been reading these threads for quite some time now, and
>> decided to finally chime in.
>>
>> I too lost my sight later in life, well, sort of but at the age of 22.
>> Up
>> until that point, my career goals were already starting to fall in place
>> as
>> I had graduated from a program where I was already working as a
>> registered
>> x-ray technologist (radiologic technologist), but then decided to pursue
>> another field within diagnostic medicine, diagnostic medical Sonography
>> (ultrasound). It was during this time, actually at the end of the first
>> of
>> 2 internships that I became gravely ill, and ended up withdrawing from
>> the
>> program only to lose my sight within 4 months after that. After
>> receiving
>> a
>> very successful kidney/pancreas transplant, I finally got back on my feet
>> only to get my first dog guide, enroll at a State University and pursue
>> a
>> BS in Community Health Education, and eventually my Master's. With my
>> skills and background in the medical field, it would be a sheer waste to
>> not
>> take those skills and use them in another fashion. I ended up reentering
>> the job market a couple of years later, and was now working in the Human
>> Service Field which I see as a subset of the broader medical umbrella,
>> and
>> worked for our regional Independent Living Center as an Independent
>> Living
>> Specialist. I was fortunate to coordinate many programs and projects
>> while
>> employed with this agency, and even ended up working in the employment
>> field
>> for 6 years under a Federal Grant program called the Disability Navigator
>> Program working through our State's Job Center System. After this grant
>> ended, I knew it was time to move on, and began working for county
>> government, as a Social Service specialist and more specifically, with
>> the
>> ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) which works with adults with
>> physical and developmental disabilities as well as frail elders in making
>> sure that they remained in the community and received the programs and
>> services they needed in order to remain in their homes and not nursing
>> facilities. Since that time almost 4 years ago, I have taken on a new
>> challenge within county government as of this past September, and now
>> work
>> in the Child Protective Service section doing CPS intake as well as
>> intake
>> and I&A for persons who have AODA backgrounds as well as mental health
>> issues. I am also a self-taught JAWS user, and am very proficient in
>> using
>> this program as we are accessing many databases and tools for ever report
>> we
>> take as we are essentially starting the investigation process in finding
>> more about the alleged maltreaters so the workers can have more insight
>> as
>> to what these individuals' backgrounds have been like. In a nutshell,
>> this
>> has all been done in the past 22 years since my transplants, and I have
>> accomplished more in this time as a person who is totally blind than in
>> all
>> of the years previously as a sighted person. Like so many, I have gone
>> from
>> the benefit roles to the payroles, have purchased a home, continue to do
>> all of those things I had when I was sighted including continuing to be
>> an
>> avid outdoorsman, e.g. hunter/fisher. I attended no training program
>> for
>> the blind, and have done everything I have because of my attitude. I
>> used
>> the skills I learned as a sighted person, and simply, transferred them to
>> that of being blind. My reputation and integrity has always been
>> something
>> I will not compromise, and continue to be involved in multiple volunteer
>> organizations outside of my 40 hour week, but choose those things that
>> are
>> passionate to me, and those things that I know that there needs to be
>> representation from the larger disability community. At one point, I was
>> involved in approximately 26 additional commitments outside of work, but
>> have since cut that down to those things truly important to me, and those
>> things that I know are not a waste of my time, and more importantly,
>> others'
>> time. Note: I am pretty sure that my passion for being involved with so
>> many things may have been a slight barrier to achieving one of my other
>> life
>> goals, and that is to settle down and get married:) But I assure you
>> that
>> this one I still continue to work on. (grin)
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:25 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult. Perhaps you, or
>> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
>>
>> From a young age, I wanted to work with animals. I started training dogs
>> in
>> high school. I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot. I decided to go to
>> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.
>> At
>> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction. I was
>> never taught a single alternative skill. I didn't even know about CCTV's
>> or
>> large print. This was before computers were mainstream.
>>
>> I didn't do so well in college. Partly that was because I lost a major
>> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
>> skills. But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready
>> for
>> college or at least not the classroom part! I was 17 when I started
>> college. I had lived a fairly sheltered life. My parents didn't go out
>> of
>>
>> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
>> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
>> I
>> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how. I could have
>> taken
>> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.
>> I
>> isolated myself.
>>
>> I gave up on veterinary technology. Sometimes I regret this, but mostly
>> I
>> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had. If I had
>> not
>> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would
>> not
>> be where I am now. I love my life. If I could go back and change
>> anything,
>> I don't think I would. I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I
>> could
>> learn and grow.
>>
>> I'll fast forward a few years. I met a lot of people in college, made
>> many
>> friends, one of them being my first husband. I had figured out that
>> there
>> were services for blind people, by accident. I was starting to see
>> possibilities.
>>
>> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for
>> me
>> to finish my associates degree in sociology. Still no mainstream
>> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
>> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks. My rehab counselor was my
>> gateway
>> to all things blindness related. I didn't know a single blind person.
>>
>> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
>> changed
>> dramatically. Now it was no longer about getting by or making do. I
>> needed
>> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else. I
>> learned Braille and cane travel right away. My rehab counselor and
>> teacher
>> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
>> cane. they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools. But when
>> they
>> left I practiced like a mad woman. I was only given the first ten
>> letters
>> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back
>> I
>> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
>> think of with those ten letters. I took my cane when I went places. I
>> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
>>
>> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on. these
>> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops. I
>> met
>> other blind people. I soaked up everything like a sponge. I
>> eavesdropped
>> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could
>> help
>> me. My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly. Before I met
>> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
>> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher. After I met blind
>> people
>> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
>> and
>> mothers I had hope for myself.
>>
>> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
>> sociology. I had no job prospects. My husband wanted to finish his
>> degree
>> in the same town where the state residential training center for the
>> blind
>> was located. So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
>> training.
>>
>> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for
>> the
>> blind. they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
>> choices. I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
>> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
>> students.
>>
>> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
>> much time out of my life if I could at all help it. From the first day I
>> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
>> months. I asked what I needed to do to make that happen. No delaying,
>> no
>> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
>> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months. I read
>> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
>> evenings
>> on my own. I pushed myself hard. I finished in three and a half months.
>>
>> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
>> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor. I started
>> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training. It was a
>> good job. It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
>> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck. However it also
>> showed
>> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized. I needed to
>> work
>> more directly with people. I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
>> it.
>>
>> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as
>> a
>> student. I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in
>> mental
>> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
>> invested,
>> causing myself way too much stress. I got divorced and became a single
>> Mom.
>>
>> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
>> roommates.
>>
>> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
>> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
>> government. I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to
>> manage
>> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in. I had
>> basic skills I felt I could apply. I had good connections with other
>> blind
>> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the
>> skills
>> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do. The most valuable
>> skills
>> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
>> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself. Some good basic
>> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support
>> you
>> are also important.
>>
>> To answer your specific questions...
>> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
>> know which fields to go into being blind? *
>>
>> My answer, I didn't.
>> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
>> skills. I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
>> could.
>>
>> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
>> the
>> park. The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
>> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit
>> different.
>> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
>>
>> *How did you overcome or continue to
>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>> economy and other adverse situations? *
>>
>> My answer. I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
>> illustrate how I have managed.
>> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded. this means
>> it
>> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
>> year to the next. I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
>> uncertainty. Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
>> decent
>> amount of job security. After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
>> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money. I attend the
>> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better. I have applied
>> for
>> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs. I started an
>> adult diversion program that is fee based. Last year our grant was cut.
>> I
>> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut. However because
>> I
>> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
>>
>> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year
>> that
>> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
>> justice in Nebraska. I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
>> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from. It
>> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected
>> at
>> work. I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
>> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
>>
>> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business. It will
>> take
>> a
>> good year for it to be fully functional and making money. If all goes
>> well
>> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
>> something
>> to fall back on. I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio. I
>> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
>> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one
>> basket.
>>
>> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go. Since I've
>> started
>> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and
>> to
>> our statistical reporting. It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
>> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
>> There
>> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people. It has taken
>> four
>> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
>>
>> I just bought an iPad late last summer. I have never had any training on
>> how to use it. I know from other blind people that it would be
>> accessible
>> out of the box. The first few days were frustrating because it is so
>> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it. I have
>> learned how to use it by trial and error. When I get stuck I ask the
>> nice
>> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
>> devices. I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
>> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
>>
>> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
>> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it. I figure if I do
>> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year. If I try something,
>>
>> I
>> have the chance to better myself. I might not make the right decision or
>> do
>> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if
>> what
>> I
>> learn is what doesn't work.
>> All my best,
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne
>> t
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:29:49 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130325012621.01dd1568 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Hi, Peter,
>
> Are you one of those people contributing to people's
> reluctance to call us what we are, blind? What's in a name, anyway?
> What is the term you like to be called, just so I don't call you BLIND?
> Loving, Carfigure out what to call us? At 06:41 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
>>Mike,
>>
>>
>> What is for dinner? I just disagree with the labels of disabled
>>people or in fact the world disabled in the first place. What is
>>fundamentally broken by a blind person? I don't like handicapped,
>>disabled, consumer, client or any of it. I'd rather have participant
>>or customer would be okay as well just not consumer. It implies a
>>causality that and it reduces you to a number.
>>
>>
>> First and foremost that we're all individuals right? I've had a
>>local taxi company in Auburn of my former college city call me "Blind
>>Pete". Can you imagine how enraged that they wouldn't change me for
>>two years just tcontiniously calling me "Blind Pete" even saved in
>>their contacts as that name too. Its like people attempt to turn you
>>into a object that dcan be treated less than a normal homo sapien.
>>Anyone else with similar experiences? This drives me insaine that way
>>don't usually ever gets to me but lately not as easy to do.
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Peter
>>
>>On 3/24/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> > Peter:
>> >
>> > You're obsessing about the word "consumer" too much. In using that
>> > word,
>> > both rehab and most blind persons merely mean a designation of someone
>> > receiving services and, if we are honest, it's also a way to avoid the
>> > word
>> > "client" which some of us hate. Frankly, I don't care what you call me
>> > as
>> > long as you call me for dinner. (grin) Our state department of services
>> >
>> > for
>> > the blind calls those whom it serves "customers".
>> >
>> > Mike Freeman
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>> > Wolfe
>> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:43 PM
>> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>> >
>> > Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
>> > rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
>> > inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
>> > Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
>> > demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
>> > things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
>> > looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
>> > deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
>> >
>> >
>> > sincerely,
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> >> Diane,
>> >>
>> >> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
>> >>
>> >> Mark Tardif
>> >> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Diane Graves
>> >> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
>> >> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>> >>
>> >> Good Evening,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
>> >> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
>> >> having
>> >> deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize
>> >> in
>> >> advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on
>> >> purpose,
>> >> just
>> >> in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up
>> >> late
>> >> baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to
>> >> share
>> >> my
>> >> sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one
>> >> participant
>> > in
>> >> the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
>> > that
>> >> we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept
>> >> the
>> >> fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this
>> >> same
>> >> individual is saying that we need to come together to fight
>> >> discrimination
>> >> against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior,
>> >> then
>> >> why
>> >> should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
>> >> discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
>> >> unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one
>> >> size
>> >> fits
>> >> all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any
>> >> more
>> >> than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are
>> >> sighted
>> >> people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the
>> >> people
>> >> skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be
>> >> the
>> >> CEO of a corporation. That CEO might not have the athletic prowess
>> >> to
>> >> fight his way out of a cardboard box. That doesn't make either one of
>> > them
>> >> inferior. They're just different.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
>> > can't
>> >> perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just
>> >> as
>> >> varied in our abilities as the sighted.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
>> > have
>> >> a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of
>> >> blind
>> >> people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply
>> >> because
>> >> they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have
>> >> trouble
>> > at
>> >> times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
>> > skills
>> >> are not excellent and far above mine.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer
>> >> Braille
>> >> to
>> >> any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
>> >> listen
>> >> to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
>> >> certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
>> > when
>> >> actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb
>> >> mobility
>> >> skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
>> >> different.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
>> >> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
>> > their
>> >> money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
>> >> about
>> >> programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do
>> >> it,
>> >> doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I
>> >> hear
>> >> this person telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization,
>> >> while
>> >> at
>> >> the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
>> >> severely
>> >> limited.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We
>> >> have
>> >> Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
>> >> those
>> >> who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that
>> >> you
>> >> could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight
>> >> the
>> >> discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist
>> >> who
>> >> believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard
>> >> as
>> > it
>> >> relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
>> >> organization
>> >> at all.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
>> > take
>> >> my dreams.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Diane Graves
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> blindtlk mailing list
>> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> blindtlk:
>> >>
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
>> > .com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----
>> >> No virus found in this message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date:
>> >> 03/21/13
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> blindtlk mailing list
>> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> blindtlk:
>> >>
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cordially,
>> > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> > cum laude Auburn University
>> > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> > Peter Q Wolfe
>> > "Stand up for your rights"
>> > Bob Marley
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindtlk:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindtlk:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>Cordially,
>>Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>>cum laude Auburn University
>>e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>>"If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>>Peter Q Wolfe
>>"Stand up for your rights"
>>Bob Marley
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindtlk mailing list
>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindtlk:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:47:16 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130325014238.01c498a0 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Hi, Diane,
>
> My brain damage came about when I was struck by a light truck while
> living in Littleton, Colorado in the Fall of '03. My problems are
> relatively minimal, my brain doesn't work that fast and I am quite
> "normal" upon the plane of self expression, and I see irony
> everywhere, don't take myself too seriously.
> for today, Car
>
> Hi Carly,
>
>>I also have a schoolmate--he was a year behind me in high school-who has
>>some brain damage. I believe he had meningitis. He has trouble with
>>articulating and I believe with Braille too. But he has a wonderful sense
>>of
>>humor and many other skills. He's a great person and is also a
>>federationist.
>>
>>Diane Graves
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
>>Mihalakis
>>Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:46 PM
>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
>>
>>Hi, Diane,
>>
>>What a great message!
>>
>>I too have a duel disability. Not only am I totally blind since age
>>18 months, in 2003, I acquired brain damage, a side effect of which is
>>tactal appraxia, the inability for finger to communicate input to the
>>brain. So, essentially, I can not any longer perceive braille although
>>complete knowledge of the code including the many rules of writing, does
>>endure, held fast in long term memory which, ever miraculously, remains
>>untouched.
>>
>>I too considdered braille one of my lovers, and losing it was akin to
>>losing
>>someone with whom you share such intimacies.
>>I'd love to talk with you, Diane so gimme a call: 408-209-3239 At
>>08:14 PM 3/23/2013, you wrote:
>> >Good Evening,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
>> >"Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
>> >having deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I
>> >apologize in advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject
>> >line on purpose, just in case there were others doing the same.
>> >However, tonight I am up late baking and have read a number of the
>> >posts, and feel compelled to share my sentiments on a few things, or the
>>facts as I see them.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one
>> >participant in the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I
>> >hear him saying that we in the federation need to "wake up and smell
>> >the coffee" and accept the fact that blindness does make us inferior.
>> >On the other hand, this same individual is saying that we need to come
>> >together to fight discrimination against the blind. If you, yourself,
>> >believe that you are inferior, then why should society stop
>> >discriminating? In fact, how can they stop discriminating? Why should
>> >employers hire us, and lessen that 70% unemployment rate, if we aren't
>>equal to our sighted counterparts?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
>> >fits all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like
>> >any more than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There
>> >are sighted people who are excellent construction workers, who do not
>> >have the people skills business prowess and any number of other skills
>> >necessary to be the CEO of a corporation. That CEO might not have the
>> >athletic prowess to fight his way out of a cardboard box. That doesn't
>> >make either one of them inferior. They're just different.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
>> >can't perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are
>> >just as varied in our abilities as the sighted.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
>> >have a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of
>> >blind people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena,
>> >simply because they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact
>> >that I have trouble at times, doesn't mean that they face the same
>> >drawbacks and that their skills are not excellent and far above mine.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
>> >to any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
>> >listen to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I
>> >could certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a
>> >book when actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the
>> >superb mobility skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I
>> >do. We are all different.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
>> >programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
>> >their money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start
>> >talking about programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that
>> >I can't do it, doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I
>> >hear this person telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization,
>> >while at the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we
>> >are all severely limited.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
>> >Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
>> >those who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation
>> >that you could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to
>> >fight the discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
>> >believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard
>> >as it relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
>> >organization at all.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
>> >take my dreams.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Diane Graves
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >blindtlk mailing list
>> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >blindtlk:
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas
>> >t.net
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindtlk mailing list
>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>blindtlk:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
>>l.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindtlk mailing list
>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindtlk:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 05:44:33 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <8172ECE9B34E4E97B9DC9CA599557ACA at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Peter,
> I think that using the word "oddity" to describe the accomplishments of
> blind people who have unusual vocations demonstrates a stereotype that
> blind
> people are inherently relegated to specific occupations and those who break
> the stereotype are odd. You mentioned, for instance, "a medical doctor in
> the ACB" who, it seems, only accomplished this because he was sighted when
> he received his medical degree. How, then, do you explain the medical
> doctor
> in the NFB who has been blind all his life? Just because one believes a
> blind person cannot do some thing or another does not mean this belief is
> fact and, by doing so, that person is odd! This person, in my opinion, is a
> trailblazer and other blind people are encouraged to break the stereotypes
> that bind us to misconceptions of what is possible.
> For a very long time, people believed that breaking the 4-minute mile
> mark was impossible and, though many came close, this belief kept people
> from accomplishing this task. Once the 4-minute mile barrier was broken,
> there came the realization that this was possible and people have broken
> that mark time and time again. The adage of my private practice is Henry
> Ford's quotation"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're
> right!"
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>
>
>> Mike,
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your e-mail even if it assumes things that I don't
>> believe in or have stated! Much of what you said that I covered in my
>> questions e-mail! Anyways, I do appreciate the sincere effort and have
>> heard of oddities of feats of some blind people that can have multiple
>> reasons not just one reason like having vision prior like a medical
>> doctor in ACB in Houston, Texas just a small example with former sight
>> or whatever.
>>
>>
>> What type of computer programming do you do Mike or have done in
>> your past jobs? I'm curious cause this is something that is a hobby of
>> mine and something that I've become rusty in as well. My thing is that
>> I don't know nemeth code and was openly discouraged by the Principle
>> of American School for the Blind and was openly referred to get my GED
>> not my high school diploma because of that conversation that we had. I
>> also wonder with shifting software that has it become easier in your
>> jobs or harder to keep up especially with unfamilar technology
>> unaccessible to the blind? I wonder how flexible the employers whether
>> private or public have been in such scenarios?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>> On 3/24/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
>>> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine
>>> work
>>> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years
>>> because
>>>
>>> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as
>>> popular
>>> or important than white collar jobs.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Peter:
>>>>
>>>> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy
>>>> and
>>>> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor
>>>> becomes
>>>> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again.
>>>> I
>>>> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
>>>> might
>>>> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
>>>> about
>>>> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
>>>> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
>>>> worries
>>>> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
>>>>
>>>> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
>>>> asking
>>>> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within
>>>> the
>>>> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of
>>>> us
>>>> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers
>>>> and
>>>> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone else,
>>>> you
>>>> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
>>>> interests
>>>> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
>>>> whatever
>>>> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that
>>>> you
>>>> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might
>>>> not
>>>> be
>>>> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the
>>>> case
>>>> and
>>>> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a blind
>>>> man
>>>> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
>>>> electricians,
>>>> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
>>>> blind
>>>> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I met
>>>> a
>>>> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day job
>>>> but
>>>> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department employed
>>>> him
>>>> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the
>>>> misfortune
>>>>
>>>> of
>>>> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
>>>> water
>>>> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
>>>> couldn't
>>>> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his
>>>> hobby
>>>> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
>>>> since
>>>> that I didn't get the guy's name.
>>>>
>>>> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this
>>>> one
>>>> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind
>>>> person.
>>>>
>>>> Or
>>>> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while,
>>>> Federation
>>>> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
>>>> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind
>>>> person
>>>> and
>>>> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
>>>> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high
>>>> school
>>>> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a
>>>> while
>>>> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
>>>> that
>>>> query.
>>>>
>>>> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
>>>> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
>>>> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies to
>>>> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
>>>> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat
>>>> here
>>>> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
>>>> recognize
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
>>>>
>>>> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of
>>>> the
>>>> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that
>>>> there
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
>>>> misguided
>>>> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools
>>>> and
>>>> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
>>>>
>>>> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
>>>> least
>>>> at first, but there it is.
>>>>
>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>>>> Wolfe
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>
>>>> cheryl,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
>>>> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
>>>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
>>>> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
>>>> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
>>>> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
>>>> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
>>>> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
>>>> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
>>>> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
>>>> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
>>>> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
>>>> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
>>>> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
>>>> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
>>>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>>>> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
>>>> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
>>>> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
>>>> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
>>>> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
>>>> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
>>>> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
>>>> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
>>>> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
>>>> the real economy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Good morning all:
>>>>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college
>>>>> graduate
>>>> of
>>>>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
>>>>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help
>>>>> me
>>>>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the things
>>>>> I
>>>>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
>>>>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
>>>>> hearing
>>>>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also
>>>>> good
>>>>> knife skills.
>>>>> The business part always helps in any profession.
>>>>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an
>>>>> office/sales
>>>>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
>>>>> 2001
>>>> as
>>>>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
>>>> company
>>>>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due to
>>>>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
>>>>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained by
>>>>> the
>>>>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to
>>>>> be
>>>>> a
>>>>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked as
>>>>> a
>>>>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other
>>>>> testing
>>>>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
>>>> 2009,
>>>>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have
>>>>> been
>>>>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY
>>>>> as
>>>> well
>>>>> as by Governor Cuomo.
>>>>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do
>>>>> it.
>>>>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight
>>>>> for
>>>> all
>>>>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
>>>>> Cheryl
>>>>>
>>>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible
>>>>> Travel
>>>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>>>>>
>>>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
>>>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>>>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
>>>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>>>>> Federation
>>>> of
>>>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>>>>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
>>>> vacation
>>>>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
>>>>> must
>>>> be
>>>>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go
>>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>>> affiliate. Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
>>>>> families
>>>>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
>>>>> affiliate
>>>>> as well. You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
>>>>> through
>>>>> us.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
>>>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>> There is a wealth of information available on various professions
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
>>>>>> challenging
>>>>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have
>>>>>> not
>>>> yet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional
>>>>>> musician
>>>>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
>>>>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
>>>>>> saddam
>>>>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas
>>>>>> employment
>>>>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in
>>>>>> Psychology
>>>>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
>>>>>> though
>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
>>>>>> Director.
>>>>>> When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
>>>> Health
>>>>>> &
>>>>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com)
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. I
>>>>>> share
>>>>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use all
>>>> your
>>>>>>
>>>>>> assets as you network with others!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>> 813-626-2789
>>>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
>>>>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to
>>>>>> > no
>>>>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main
>>>>>> > form
>>>>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl
>>>>>> > livelyhood.
>>>>>> > I
>>>>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list
>>>>>> > are
>>>>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
>>>>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so
>>>>>> > much,
>>>>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself
>>>>>> > out
>>>>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thank you,
>>>>>> > Peter
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> > for
>>>>>> > blindtlk:
>>>>>> >
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
>>>> l.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cordially,
>>>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>>>> cum laude Auburn University
>>>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>>>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>>>> Peter Q Wolfe
>>>> "Stand up for your rights"
>>>> Bob Marley
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> cum laude Auburn University
>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> Peter Q Wolfe
>> "Stand up for your rights"
>> Bob Marley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 06:25:16 -0400
> From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <BLU169-W68A5FE5F7FB76F2C68C869A1D70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> So sorry I have not answered Peter's and other questions, being that I am
> away for the Passover holiday at my mom's I am not on the computer that
> much, I also will not be on much at all today because Passover begins after
>
> sundown, whether you celebrate Passover or Easter or nothing. Happy
> Holidays.
> Second, I agree with the statement that Marion Gwizdala has said about
> sterotyping each other.
> We have many people in our organization including a former New York State
> Governor, who was born blind, and is a member of the NFB since leaving
> office, David Paterson.
> There has also been blind doctors in the past, not sure of that now, but we
>
> honor at Dr. at our National Convention every year with Dr. Jacob Bolotin,
> who was blind. The information is below.
> Second, how did I learn these skills and what made me going into these
> fields.
> Well, I had already gone to college right after high school again at that
> time not being blind. I definitely think blind people should shoot for
> higher education or anyone for that matter, we do get assistance not only
> in loans, but from our Vocation Rehabilitation Services. NFB or not.
> My thing was that I get back to work, I just had to get trained on using the
>
> right equipment, I taught myself some braille on the side from Hadley as
> well, being that I am a diabetic (again, that is how I lost my vision in
> 2001) and was on dialysis from 2002-2005, had kidney transplant, it will be
>
> 8 years this year, that I have survived that. I have a lot of nerve damage
> in my fingers that it hurts to read braille.
> I also have the background in working in the Medical Insurance field,
> learned alot about my medical condition etc when I was sick, and not have
> the doctors talk down to me. I decided to go into the medical insurance
> field, as a medical biller, I still do some work for a local doctor here in
>
> Brentwood, where I live.
> But when I wound up leaving my job because of the way they were treating me,
>
> and I went after my former employer legally because of it. I took a step
> back and look and thought what do I want to do with the rest of my life, I
> was only 41 years old at the time. What now I said.
> I listen to what is out there, I heard the way travel professionals spoke to
>
> me when I wanted to go on vacations and them telling well, you cannot bring
>
> your guide dog here or why do you want to go there because you are blind, oh
>
> you cannot do anything at Walt Disney World, I am not insured if something
> happens to you.
> Well being an NFB member I would turn around and give it back to them, but I
>
> thought to myself, I love to travel, I know more about traveling then some
> of these travel professionals, I also wanted to own my own business.
> I made the right move on that one. There are a few articles written about me
>
> that I am very proud of, but I always mention the NFB in them, without my
> NFB family with the love and support, who knows.
> Yes and a Rah Rah about the NFB, you are darn tooting I am, but am I going
> to force anything on to someone that isn't nope.
> If you want to discuss this more off list anyone that is fine. But please
> read below about Dr. Bolotin, who was blind. If he did this in the early
> part of the twentieth century. There is no reason why there cannot be them
> today.
> Here is a little bit from the Braille Monitor, plus there is a book about
> him the Blind Doctor.
> Dr. Jacob Bolotin was a blind physician who lived and practiced in Chicago
> in the early part of the twentieth century. As chronicled in his biography,
>
> The Blind Doctor by Rosalind Perlman, Bolotin fought ignorance and prejudice
>
> to gain entrance to medical school and the medical profession. He became one
>
> of the most respected physicians in Chicago during his career, which spanned
>
> the period from 1912 until his death in 1924. He was particularly known for
>
> his expertise in diseases of the heart and lungs. Bolotin used his many
> public speaking engagements to advocate for the employment of the blind and
>
> their full integration into society. Interested in young people in general
> and blind youth in particular, Dr. Bolotin established the first Boy Scout
> troop consisting entirely of blind boys and served as its leader.
> The National Federation of the Blind is once again pleased to announce our
> acceptance of nominations for the Dr. Jacob Bolotin Awards. The cash awards
>
> have been issued at the annual convention of the National Federation of the
>
> Blind for two years running, and the winners and their acceptance are
> described in the August-September issue of the Monitor each year. The
> Bolotin Award is a way to recognize individuals and organizations working in
>
> the blindness field that have made outstanding contributions toward
> achieving the full integration of blind people into society on a basis of
> equality. Named for a pioneering blind physician who practiced in the early
>
> twentieth century, these awards are made possible through the generosity of
>
> his late nephew and niece. Their bequest, the Alfred and Rosalind Perlman
> Trust, will allow the National Federation of the Blind to provide direct
> financial support to people and organizations that are improving the lives
> of the blind throughout the United States.
> For more to read:
> History of Dr. Bolotin:
> https://nfb.org/history-bolotin
>
> Dr. Bolotin Award:https://nfb.org/bolotin-who-should-apply
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>
> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation of
>
> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any vacation
>
> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be
>
> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the
>
> affiliate. Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families
> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate
> as well. You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through
> us.
>
>
>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 05:44:33 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>> Peter,
>> I think that using the word "oddity" to describe the accomplishments
>> of
>> blind people who have unusual vocations demonstrates a stereotype that
>> blind
>> people are inherently relegated to specific occupations and those who
>> break
>> the stereotype are odd. You mentioned, for instance, "a medical doctor in
>> the ACB" who, it seems, only accomplished this because he was sighted
>> when
>> he received his medical degree. How, then, do you explain the medical
>> doctor
>> in the NFB who has been blind all his life? Just because one believes a
>> blind person cannot do some thing or another does not mean this belief is
>> fact and, by doing so, that person is odd! This person, in my opinion, is
>>
>> a
>> trailblazer and other blind people are encouraged to break the
>> stereotypes
>> that bind us to misconceptions of what is possible.
>> For a very long time, people believed that breaking the 4-minute mile
>> mark was impossible and, though many came close, this belief kept people
>> from accomplishing this task. Once the 4-minute mile barrier was broken,
>> there came the realization that this was possible and people have broken
>> that mark time and time again. The adage of my private practice is Henry
>> Ford's quotation"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're
>> right!"
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>>
>>
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your e-mail even if it assumes things that I don't
>> > believe in or have stated! Much of what you said that I covered in my
>> > questions e-mail! Anyways, I do appreciate the sincere effort and have
>> > heard of oddities of feats of some blind people that can have multiple
>> > reasons not just one reason like having vision prior like a medical
>> > doctor in ACB in Houston, Texas just a small example with former sight
>> > or whatever.
>> >
>> >
>> > What type of computer programming do you do Mike or have done in
>> > your past jobs? I'm curious cause this is something that is a hobby of
>> > mine and something that I've become rusty in as well. My thing is that
>> > I don't know nemeth code and was openly discouraged by the Principle
>> > of American School for the Blind and was openly referred to get my GED
>> > not my high school diploma because of that conversation that we had. I
>> > also wonder with shifting software that has it become easier in your
>> > jobs or harder to keep up especially with unfamilar technology
>> > unaccessible to the blind? I wonder how flexible the employers whether
>> > private or public have been in such scenarios?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > On 3/24/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> hi,
>> >>
>> >> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
>> >> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine
>> >> work
>> >> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years
>> >> because
>> >>
>> >> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as
>> >> popular
>> >> or important than white collar jobs.
>> >>
>> >> Bryan Schulz
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> >> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Peter:
>> >>>
>> >>> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy
>> >>> and
>> >>> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor
>> >>> becomes
>> >>> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again.
>> >>>
>> >>> I
>> >>> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
>> >>> might
>> >>> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
>> >>> about
>> >>> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy
>> >>> that
>> >>> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
>> >>> worries
>> >>> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
>> >>> asking
>> >>> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within
>> >>> the
>> >>> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of
>> >>>
>> >>> us
>> >>> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers
>> >>> and
>> >>> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone
>> >>> else,
>> >>> you
>> >>> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
>> >>> interests
>> >>> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
>> >>> whatever
>> >>> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be
>> >>> that
>> >>> you
>> >>> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might
>> >>> not
>> >>> be
>> >>> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the
>> >>> case
>> >>> and
>> >>> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a
>> >>> blind
>> >>> man
>> >>> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
>> >>> electricians,
>> >>> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met
>> >>> a
>> >>> blind
>> >>> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I
>> >>> met
>> >>> a
>> >>> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day
>> >>> job
>> >>> but
>> >>> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department
>> >>> employed
>> >>> him
>> >>> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the
>> >>> misfortune
>> >>>
>> >>> of
>> >>> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that
>> >>> the
>> >>> water
>> >>> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
>> >>> couldn't
>> >>> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his
>> >>> hobby
>> >>> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
>> >>> since
>> >>> that I didn't get the guy's name.
>> >>>
>> >>> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this
>> >>> one
>> >>> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind
>> >>> person.
>> >>>
>> >>> Or
>> >>> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while,
>> >>> Federation
>> >>> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
>> >>> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind
>> >>> person
>> >>> and
>> >>> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
>> >>> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high
>> >>> school
>> >>> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a
>> >>> while
>> >>> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band,
>> >>> answered
>> >>> that
>> >>> query.
>> >>>
>> >>> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering
>> >>> rehab
>> >>> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
>> >>> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies
>> >>> to
>> >>> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
>> >>> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat
>> >>> here
>> >>> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
>> >>> recognize
>> >>> this.
>> >>>
>> >>> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
>> >>>
>> >>> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of
>> >>> the
>> >>> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that
>> >>> there
>> >>>
>> >>> is
>> >>> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
>> >>> misguided
>> >>> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools
>> >>> and
>> >>> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer,
>> >>> at
>> >>> least
>> >>> at first, but there it is.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mike Freeman
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>> Peter
>> >>> Wolfe
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
>> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>> >>>
>> >>> cheryl,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
>> >>> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or
>> >>> technologies
>> >>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
>> >>> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
>> >>> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
>> >>> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
>> >>> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
>> >>> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
>> >>> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
>> >>> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
>> >>> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
>> >>> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
>> >>> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that
>> >>> we
>> >>> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
>> >>> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
>> >>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
>> >>> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
>> >>> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
>> >>> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
>> >>> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
>> >>> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
>> >>> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
>> >>> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
>> >>> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
>> >>> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
>> >>> the real economy.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Peter
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Good morning all:
>> >>>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college
>> >>>> graduate
>> >>> of
>> >>>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
>> >>>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it
>> >>>> help
>> >>>> me
>> >>>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the
>> >>>> things
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
>> >>>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
>> >>>> hearing
>> >>>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also
>> >>>> good
>> >>>> knife skills.
>> >>>> The business part always helps in any profession.
>> >>>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an
>> >>>> office/sales
>> >>>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
>> >>>> 2001
>> >>> as
>> >>>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
>> >>> company
>> >>>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
>> >>>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained
>> >>>> by
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to
>> >>>>
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked
>> >>>> as
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other
>> >>>> testing
>> >>>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business
>> >>>> in
>> >>> 2009,
>> >>>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have
>> >>>> been
>> >>>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY
>> >>>>
>> >>>> as
>> >>> well
>> >>>> as by Governor Cuomo.
>> >>>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do
>> >>>> it.
>> >>>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight
>> >>>> for
>> >>> all
>> >>>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
>> >>>> Cheryl
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>> >>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible
>> >>>> Travel
>> >>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>> >>>>
>> >>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
>> >>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>> >>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>> >>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
>> >>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>> >>>> Federation
>> >>> of
>> >>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>> >>>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
>> >>> vacation
>> >>>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
>> >>>> must
>> >>> be
>> >>>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will
>> >>>> go
>> >>>> to
>> >>> the
>> >>>> affiliate. Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
>> >>>> families
>> >>>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
>> >>>> affiliate
>> >>>> as well. You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
>> >>>> through
>> >>>> us.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
>> >>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Peter,
>> >>>>> There is a wealth of information available on various
>> >>>>> professions
>> >>>>> blind
>> >>>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
>> >>>>> challenging
>> >>>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have
>> >>>>> not
>> >>> yet
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional
>> >>>>> musician
>> >>>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
>> >>>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
>> >>>>> saddam
>> >>>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas
>> >>>>> employment
>> >>>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in
>> >>>>> Psychology
>> >>>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> am
>> >>>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
>> >>>>> though
>> >>> I
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
>> >>>>> Director.
>> >>>>> When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
>> >>> Health
>> >>>>> &
>> >>>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> share
>> >>>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use
>> >>>>> all
>> >>> your
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> assets as you network with others!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Fraternally yours,
>> >>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> >>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
>> >>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>> >>>>> 813-626-2789
>> >>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> >>>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
>> >>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
>> >>>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > no
>> >>>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main
>> >>>>> > form
>> >>>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl
>> >>>>> > livelyhood.
>> >>>>> > I
>> >>>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs
>> >>>>> > list
>> >>>>> > are
>> >>>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on
>> >>>>> > such
>> >>>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic
>> >>>>> > history
>> >>>>> > and
>> >>>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so
>> >>>>> > much,
>> >>>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something
>> >>>>> > myself
>> >>>>> > out
>> >>>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Thank you,
>> >>>>> > Peter
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>> > for
>> >>>>> > blindtlk:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>>
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
>> >>> l.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> blindtlk:
>> >>>>
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Cordially,
>> >>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> >>> cum laude Auburn University
>> >>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> >>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for
>> >>> anything"
>> >>> Peter Q Wolfe
>> >>> "Stand up for your rights"
>> >>> Bob Marley
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> blindtlk:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> blindtlk:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> blindtlk mailing list
>> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> blindtlk:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cordially,
>> > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
>> > cum laude Auburn University
>> > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
>> > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
>> > Peter Q Wolfe
>> > "Stand up for your rights"
>> > Bob Marley
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindtlk:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com
>
>
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> End of blindtlk Digest, Vol 81, Issue 48
> ****************************************
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--
Cordially,
Peter Q Wolfe, BA
cum laude Auburn University
e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
"If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
Peter Q Wolfe
"Stand up for your rights"
Bob Marley
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