[Blindtlk] 2 cents

[cheryl echevarria]

Erika:
President of the NFB Greater Long Island Chapter might also be help to you in this matter. He was the 1st Social Worker at Nassau County Medical Center for over 25+ Years. He has been with the NFB since the early 70s and had  started our chapter.
His contact information is David Stayer, 516-868-8718 and his e-mail is davidrstayer6 at gmail.com. He is celebrating Passover and will not be returning e-mails or phone calls until after April 3rd.
He is very observant, not like myself, but I do celebrate with my family.
David has mentored me since before coming to the NFB and has become part of my own person family, with his wife Loraine Stayer. They also will both be at National Convention is year with gods help, since Lori has been ill these last couple of years, so all prayers and/or good thoughts are welcome. Some may know them both from the writers division, and Parents of Blind Children and Social Workers Division, etc.
They are both very involved in the NFB.
Take care.

Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria, Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012 Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST - #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.


> From: ericka.short at att.net
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:24:31 -0500
> Subject: [Blindtlk] 2 cents
> 
> Peter
> 
> Mike's eloquent response might seem really crazy but as a middle of the road 
> person in philosphiies of the blind I totally agree with him!  A positive 
> attitude and  the willingness to  ask someone how you can make your dream 
> come true  are essential.  While I'm not "living the dream" as of yet, I'm 
> working towards it.  I'm doing case management under a wonderful sighted 
> boss who has the NFB ideas but doesn't know it.  Every experience is a way 
> to learn about yourself and  become more confident in what your dream is. 
> Keep active and don't give up.  My dream?  To be working as a social worker 
> for those in hospice or an run my own counseling center that  gives more 
> focus to the disabled than the nondisabled (we'd take anyone though to pay 
> bills)!
> 
> Ericka
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:25 AM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: blindtlk Digest, Vol 81, Issue 48
> 
> Send blindtlk mailing list submissions to
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> 
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of blindtlk digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Professions on list? (Bryan Schulz)
>    2. Re: Professions on list? (Mike Freeman)
>    3. Re: My 2 Cents (Mike Freeman)
>    4. Re: My 2 Cents (Mike Freeman)
>    5. Re: Professions on list? (Mike Freeman)
>    6. Re: Professions on list? (Carly Mihalakis)
>    7. Re: My 2 Cents (David Andrews)
>    8. Re: My 2 Cents (Diane Graves)
>    9. Re: Professions on list? (Diane Graves)
>   10. Re: Professions on list? (Peter Wolfe)
>   11. Re: My 2 Cents (Peter Wolfe)
>   12. product advice (sarah harris)
>   13. Re: product advice (Peter Wolfe)
>   14. Re: Professions on list? (justin williams)
>   15. Re: Professions on list? (justin williams)
>   16. Re: Professions on list? (Peter Wolfe)
>   17. Re: My 2 Cents (Carly Mihalakis)
>   18. Re: My 2 Cents (Carly Mihalakis)
>   19. Re: Professions on list? (Marion Gwizdala)
>   20. Re: Professions on list? (cheryl echevarria)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:16:18 -0500
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <BE40F63D29B14F78B7C16D6F05B63DFF at HP8730notebook>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> 
> hi,
> 
> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine work
> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years because
> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as popular
> or important than white collar jobs.
> 
> Bryan Schulz
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> 
> > Peter:
> >
> > Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy and
> > out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor becomes
> > more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again. I
> > worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
> > might
> > not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
> > about
> > what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
> > requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized worries
> > and apply to blind and sighted alike.
> >
> > Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
> > asking
> > the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within the
> > jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of us
> > contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers and
> > those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone else,
> > you
> > should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
> > interests
> > me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
> > whatever
> > it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that you
> > will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might not
> > be
> > able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the case
> > and
> > in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a blind
> > man
> > who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were electricians,
> > software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
> > blind
> > plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I met a
> > guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day job
> > but
> > as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department employed
> > him
> > to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the misfortune
> > of
> > landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
> > water
> > was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
> > couldn't
> > anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his hobby
> > doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever since
> > that I didn't get the guy's name.
> >
> > Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this one
> > and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind person.
> > Or
> > you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while, Federation
> > officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
> > someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind person
> > and
> > it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
> > subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high school
> > marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a while
> > back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
> > that
> > query.
> >
> > You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
> > and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
> > excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies to
> > provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
> > knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat here
> > although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
> > recognize
> > this.
> >
> > The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
> >
> > Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of the
> > sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that there
> > is
> > prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
> > misguided
> > kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools and
> > attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
> >
> > I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
> > least
> > at first, but there it is.
> >
> > Mike Freeman
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> > Wolfe
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> > cheryl,
> >
> >
> >
> >    I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
> > blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
> > to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
> > is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
> > satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
> > be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
> > loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
> > engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
> > are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
> > institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
> > talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
> >
> >
> >    I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
> > criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
> > also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
> > all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
> > professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
> > overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> > economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
> > seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
> > outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
> > an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
> > its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
> > prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
> > denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
> > disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
> > naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
> > the real economy.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Peter
> >
> > On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Good morning all:
> >> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college graduate
> > of
> >> Culinary Arts and also Business.
> >> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help me
> >> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the things I
> >> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
> >> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste, hearing
> >> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also good
> >> knife skills.
> >> The business part always helps in any profession.
> >> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an office/sales
> >> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until 2001
> > as
> >> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
> > company
> >> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due to
> >> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
> >> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained by
> >> the
> >> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to be a
> >> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked as a
> >> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other testing
> >> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
> > 2009,
> >> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have been
> >> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY as
> > well
> >> as by Governor Cuomo.
> >> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do it.
> >> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight for
> > all
> >> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
> >> Cheryl
> >>
> >> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> >> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> >> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> >>
> > Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
> > l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> >> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> >> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
> >> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation
> > of
> >> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
> >> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
> > vacation
> >> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must
> > be
> >> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to
> > the
> >> affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
> >> families
> >> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
> >> affiliate
> >> as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
> >> through
> >> us.
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
> >>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>
> >>> Peter,
> >>>     There is a wealth of information available on various professions
> >>> blind
> >>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a challenging
> >>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have not
> > yet
> >>>
> >>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional musician
> >>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
> >>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After saddam
> >>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas employment
> >>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in Psychology
> >>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. I am
> >>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist, though
> > I
> >>>
> >>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
> >>> Director.
> >>>     When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
> > Health
> >>> &
> >>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com)  I
> >>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. I
> >>> share
> >>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use all
> > your
> >>>
> >>> assets as you network with others!
> >>>
> >>> Fraternally yours,
> >>> Marion Gwizdala, President
> >>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
> >>> National Federation of the Blind
> >>> 813-626-2789
> >>> President at NAGDU.ORG
> >>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> >>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
> >>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >    What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
> >>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
> >>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
> >>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood. I
> >>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list are
> >>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
> >>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history and
> >>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
> >>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself out
> >>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you,
> >>> > Peter
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > blindtlk mailing list
> >>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> > blindtlk:
> >>> >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
> > l.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cordially,
> > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > cum laude Auburn University
> > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> > Peter Q Wolfe
> > "Stand up for your rights"
> > Bob Marley
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:56:07 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <013901ce28d2$025919c0$070b4d40$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Peter:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you checked out the "how-to" videos on the Washington State School for
> the Blind <http://www.wssb.wa.gov/>  web site? Also, have you looked at
> http://www.blindhow.com <http://www.blindhow.com/>  for tips and tricks?
> 
> 
> 
> In seeking to learn techniques, please bear in mind that, despite what some
> authorities may tell you, there is no standard technique to do particular
> activities as a blind person. There is a general consensus that there are
> certain efficient ways to do things but in the end, you do what works for
> you as long as it is efficient. As a trivial example, I know rehab teachers
> who have heart-attacks watching me plug something into an outlet, believing
> that I am courting a shock. Yet I don't think I've been bitten more than
> anyone else has.
> 
> 
> 
> On another topic, some statistics packages work better than others using
> screen-reading technology. You'd ask on the GUI-Talk, NFBCS or NABS-L lists
> which are, the Graphical User Interface, NFB in Computer Science and NFB
> student lists, respectively, and get an answer with greater expertise than
> you'd get here.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolfe
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:54 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> 
> 
> Julie,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Thank you so very much for the most thought provoking e-mail that
> 
> I've recieved in quite sometime now! I'm not just saying that either
> 
> cause I don't give flattery just compliments as they are warranted.
> 
> You gave a comprehensive indepthed analysis that I was looking for.
> 
> Not only was I thinking that this strategy was for me but exactly my
> 
> experience has shown me as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     I'd like to refine a point or two that you made on
> 
> experimentation. Realizing that your blind that your expectations
> 
> shouldn't be that everything will work at any given point of time.
> 
> I've failed in many things that I've tried even selling a house as a
> 
> rent-to-own property cause of having the house stripped. However, I
> 
> learned that somethings are easier than others without sight and
> 
> geography plays a huge role in this endeavor as well. Relying on
> 
> others to accomplish tasks doesn't work as well, so always having a
> 
> backup plan like your doing is the way about success. Out of everyone
> 
> on list to date that I admire you the most. By the way, I'm interested
> 
> in how you get statistical software to work using a screen reader like
> 
> Jaws or Window-Eyes cause I see this  as something that I need for my
> 
> profession. Some people on the Social Sciences e-mail list think that
> 
> I need to start working, then consult with them to know better what to
> 
> do that just simply the way that I operate though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Lastly, I cannot express my level of gratitude to your post
> 
> enough! It was a fabulous beautiful and amazing work of art that
> 
> illustrates strength and something that all blind people should strive
> 
> for against adversity. I've thought about making my own business with
> 
> extra money like how about an online service for blind people like an
> 
> how-to video/audio set that teaches cooking, cleaning, etc? Honestly
> 
> this would save lots of people time and money instead of these
> 
> rehabilitative programs that many don't want to do instead of
> 
> retirement, schooling or whatever. Maybe this something you or someone
> 
> else can create for blind people cause I'd pay for a program like
> 
> that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sincerely,
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/24/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> > Peter,
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult.  Perhaps you, or
> 
> > someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
> 
> >
> 
> > From a young age, I wanted to work with animals.  I started training dogs
> in
> 
> >
> 
> > high school.  I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot.  I decided to go to
> 
> > college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.  At
> 
> > this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction.  I was
> 
> > never taught a single alternative skill.  I didn't even know about CCTV's
> or
> 
> >
> 
> > large print.  This was before computers were mainstream.
> 
> >
> 
> > I didn't do so well in college.  Partly that was because I lost a major
> 
> > portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> 
> > skills.  But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> 
> > college or at least not the classroom part!  I was 17 when I started
> 
> > college.   I had lived a fairly sheltered life.  My parents didn't go out
> of
> 
> >
> 
> > their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> 
> > However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
> I
> 
> >
> 
> > also feared doing many things because I didn't know how.  I could have
> taken
> 
> >
> 
> > the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.
> I
> 
> >
> 
> > isolated myself.
> 
> >
> 
> > I gave up on veterinary technology.  Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> 
> > am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had.  If I had
> not
> 
> >
> 
> > lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would
> not
> 
> >
> 
> > be where I am now.  I love my life.  If I could go back and change
> anything,
> 
> >
> 
> > I don't think I would.  I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I
> could
> 
> >
> 
> > learn and grow.
> 
> >
> 
> > I'll fast forward a few years.  I met a lot of people in college, made
> many
> 
> >
> 
> > friends, one of them being my first husband.  I had figured out that there
> 
> > were services for blind people, by accident.  I was starting to see
> 
> > possibilities.
> 
> >
> 
> > We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> 
> > to finish my associates degree in sociology.   Still no mainstream
> 
> > computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> 
> > talking books and RFB&D for textbooks.   My rehab counselor was my gateway
> 
> > to all things blindness related.  I didn't know a single blind person.
> 
> >
> 
> > Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
> changed
> 
> >
> 
> > dramatically.  Now it was no longer about getting by or making do.  I
> needed
> 
> >
> 
> > to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else.  I
> 
> > learned Braille and cane travel right away.  My rehab counselor and
> teacher
> 
> >
> 
> > brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> 
> > cane.  they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools.  But when
> they
> 
> >
> 
> > left I practiced like a mad woman.  I was only given the first ten letters
> 
> > of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> 
> > had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> 
> > think of with those ten letters.  I took my cane when I went places.  I
> 
> > wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
> 
> >
> 
> > I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on.  these
> 
> > weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops.  I
> met
> 
> >
> 
> > other blind people.  I soaked up everything like a sponge.  I eavesdropped
> 
> > on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> 
> > me.  My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly.  Before I met
> 
> > other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> 
> > would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher.  After I met blind
> people
> 
> >
> 
> > who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
> and
> 
> >
> 
> > mothers I had hope for myself.
> 
> >
> 
> > I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> 
> > sociology.  I had no job prospects.  My husband wanted to finish his
> degree
> 
> >
> 
> > in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> 
> > was located.  So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
> training.
> 
> >
> 
> > I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for
> the
> 
> >
> 
> > blind.  they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> 
> > choices.  I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> 
> > through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> 
> > students.
> 
> >
> 
> > The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> 
> > much time out of my life if I could at all help it.  From the first day I
> 
> > was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> 
> > months.  I asked what I needed to do to make that happen.  No delaying, no
> 
> > messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> 
> > homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months.  I read
> 
> > Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
> evenings
> 
> >
> 
> > on my own.  I pushed myself hard.  I finished in three and a half months.
> 
> >
> 
> > As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> 
> > connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor.  I started
> 
> > working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training.  It was a
> 
> > good job.  It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> 
> > understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck.  However it also
> showed
> 
> >
> 
> > me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized.  I needed to
> work
> 
> >
> 
> > more directly with people.  I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
> 
> > it.
> 
> >
> 
> > In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> 
> > student.  I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> 
> > health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
> invested,
> 
> >
> 
> > causing myself way too much stress.  I got divorced and became a single
> Mom.
> 
> >
> 
> > I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> 
> > roommates.
> 
> >
> 
> > Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> 
> > started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> 
> > government.  I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to
> manage
> 
> >
> 
> > all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in.  I had
> 
> > basic skills I felt I could apply.  I had good connections with other
> blind
> 
> >
> 
> > people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the
> skills
> 
> >
> 
> > and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do.  The most valuable
> skills
> 
> >
> 
> > a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> 
> > problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself.  Some good basic
> 
> > training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support
> you
> 
> >
> 
> > are also important.
> 
> >
> 
> > To answer your specific questions...
> 
> > *How did you know the right skills or technologies
> 
> > to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? *
> 
> >
> 
> > My answer, I didn't.
> 
> > I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> 
> > skills.  I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
> could.
> 
> >
> 
> > I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
> the
> 
> >
> 
> > park.  The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> 
> > listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> 
> > I learned to problem solve on the fly.
> 
> >
> 
> > *How did you overcome or continue to
> 
> > overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> 
> > economy and other adverse situations? *
> 
> >
> 
> > My answer.  I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> 
> > illustrate how I have managed.
> 
> > My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded.  this means
> it
> 
> >
> 
> > is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> 
> > year to the next.  I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> 
> > uncertainty.  Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
> decent
> 
> >
> 
> > amount of job security.  After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> 
> > Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money.  I attend the
> 
> > training workshops on grant writing so I can get better.  I have applied
> for
> 
> >
> 
> > and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs.  I started an
> 
> > adult diversion program that is fee based.  Last year our grant was cut.
> I
> 
> >
> 
> > lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut.  However because I
> 
> > had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
> 
> >
> 
> > There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year
> that
> 
> >
> 
> > could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> 
> > justice in Nebraska.  I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> 
> > year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from.  It
> 
> > causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> 
> > work.  I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> 
> > supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
> 
> >
> 
> > In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business.  It will take
> a
> 
> >
> 
> > good year for it to be fully functional and making money.  If all goes
> well
> 
> >
> 
> > it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
> something
> 
> >
> 
> > to fall back on.  I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio.  I
> 
> > have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> 
> > another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
> 
> >
> 
> > As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go.  Since I've started
> 
> > my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> 
> > our statistical reporting.  It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> 
> > charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
> There
> 
> >
> 
> > are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people.  It has taken
> four
> 
> >
> 
> > years, but finally everything is working as it should.
> 
> >
> 
> > I just bought an iPad late last summer.  I have never had any training on
> 
> > how to use it.  I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> 
> > out of the box.  The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> 
> > different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it.  I have
> 
> > learned how to use it by trial and error.  When I get stuck I ask the nice
> 
> > folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> 
> > devices.  I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> 
> > internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
> 
> >
> 
> > I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> 
> > what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it.  I figure if I do
> 
> > nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year.  If I try something,
> I
> 
> >
> 
> > have the chance to better myself.  I might not make the right decision or
> do
> 
> >
> 
> > the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what
> I
> 
> >
> 
> > learn is what doesn't work.
> 
> > All my best,
> 
> > Julie
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> 
> > blindtlk mailing list
> 
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> 
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> 
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> 
> > blindtlk:
> 
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cordially,
> 
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> 
> cum laude Auburn University
> 
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> 
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> 
> Peter Q Wolfe
> 
> "Stand up for your rights"
> 
> Bob Marley
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> blindtlk mailing list
> 
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:58:50 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <013e01ce28d2$6332cd40$299867c0$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Peter:
> 
> You're obsessing about the word "consumer" too much. In using that word,
> both rehab and most blind persons merely mean a designation of someone
> receiving services and, if we are honest, it's also a way to avoid the word
> "client" which some of us hate. Frankly, I don't care what you call me as
> long as you call me for dinner. (grin) Our state department of services for
> the blind calls those whom it serves "customers".
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolfe
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:43 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> 
>    Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
> rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
> inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
> Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
> demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
> things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
> looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
> deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
> 
> 
> sincerely,
> Peter
> 
> On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> > Diane,
> >
> > Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
> >
> > Mark Tardif
> > Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Diane Graves
> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
> > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> >
> > Good Evening,
> >
> >
> >
> > For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
> > "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
> > having
> > deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize in
> > advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
> > just
> > in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
> > baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share my
> > sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
> >
> >
> >
> > First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one participant
> in
> > the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
> that
> > we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept the
> > fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
> > individual is saying that we need to come together to fight discrimination
> > against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, then
> > why
> > should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
> > discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
> > unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
> > fits
> > all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any more
> > than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are sighted
> > people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the people
> > skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be the
> > CEO of a corporation.  That CEO  might not have the athletic prowess to
> > fight his way out of a cardboard box.  That doesn't make either one of
> them
> > inferior. They're just different.
> >
> >
> >
> > The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> can't
> > perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
> > varied in our abilities as the sighted.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> have
> > a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of blind
> > people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply because
> > they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have trouble
> at
> > times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
> skills
> > are not excellent and far above mine.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille to
> > any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to listen
> > to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
> > certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
> when
> > actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb mobility
> > skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
> > different.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
> > programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> their
> > money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
> > about
> > programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do it,
> > doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I hear
> > this person  telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while at
> > the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
> > severely
> > limited.
> >
> >
> >
> > In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
> > Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and those
> > who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that you
> > could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight the
> > discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
> > believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard as
> it
> > relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the organization
> > at all.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> take
> > my dreams.
> >
> >
> >
> > Diane Graves
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
> .com
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:00:14 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <013f01ce28d2$95412200$bfc36600$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Peter:
> 
> This sort of sophistry ill-becomes you.
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolfe
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:31 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> 
> Diane,
> 
> 
>     Thanks for pointing me out to your possy on the NFB-Talk list that
> is quite becoming of NFB insulated double-speak. I rise to the defense
> to acknowledge the positive statements that I've already mentioned in
> prior posts that are commendable and worthy of mention. Did I or did I
> not mention some professions that blind people have and continue to
> pursue despite their odds? The answer just to spoon feed everyone is a
> definint affirmative not the pessimestic view that your trying to
> paint my posts as being.
> 
> 
>     Secondly, why would I seek to equalize the playing field for
> inferior blind people vs superior normal undsabled sighted folks? I do
> it cause humans are set aside apart from the Kingdom of Animalia or
> lifeforms for this particular nack of the capacity of civility and
> rational characteristics. We're far more than simple creatures who
> would kill off the weaker for the benefit of the pack like lower
> lifeforms like wolves or lions or whatever creature in a nihilistic
> world view. Moreover, its the place in a world of 21st century
> technology and medicine with civil democracy to care for the
> vulnerable in a global economy that attracts a vibrant economy by a
> diverse and cultured worlk-force. Lastly, I'd mention that one day
> that we will all become disabled not even seniority is granted to some
> people in their lives, yet disability whether in sickness or
> disability afflicts all of us in one stage or another in our
> lifetimes.
> 
>     Thirdly and lastly, my views are within lines of my experiences
> not NFB's, yours or anybodies on the list that has some evidense to
> prove it. I could honestly careless of what you think of me nor my
> objective facts as to how I see the world. I'd mention that NFB
> centers foster such one-way configurations of long-cane travel, Nfb's
> policy against universal tactical currency, protestive aggressive
> extremist or whatever and not to mention lack of inclusion lik the
> aCB. Neither group whether ACB or NFB are inline with reality that is
> my view that is how I see it that is the real deal to me.
> 
> 
> sincerely,
> Peter
> 
> On 3/23/13, Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good Evening,
> >
> >
> >
> > For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
> > "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
> > having
> > deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize in
> > advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
> > just
> > in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
> > baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share my
> > sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
> >
> >
> >
> > First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one participant
> in
> > the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
> that
> > we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept the
> > fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
> > individual is saying that we need to come together to fight discrimination
> > against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, then
> > why
> > should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
> > discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
> > unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
> > fits
> > all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any more
> > than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are sighted
> > people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the people
> > skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be the
> > CEO of a corporation.  That CEO  might not have the athletic prowess to
> > fight his way out of a cardboard box.  That doesn't make either one of
> them
> > inferior. They're just different.
> >
> >
> >
> > The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> can't
> > perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
> > varied in our abilities as the sighted.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> have
> > a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of blind
> > people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply because
> > they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have trouble
> at
> > times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
> skills
> > are not excellent and far above mine.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille to
> > any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to listen
> > to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
> > certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
> when
> > actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb mobility
> > skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
> > different.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
> > programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> their
> > money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
> > about
> > programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do it,
> > doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I hear
> > this person  telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while at
> > the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
> > severely
> > limited.
> >
> >
> >
> > In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
> > Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and those
> > who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that you
> > could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight the
> > discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
> > believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard as
> it
> > relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the organization
> > at all.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> take
> > my dreams.
> >
> >
> >
> > Diane Graves
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:03:34 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <014001ce28d3$0ca7ff30$25f7fd90$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Peter:
> 
> I hold a B.A. and M.S. in physics. When I got out of school, contrary to the
> situation when I started college, physicists were a dime a dozen so I and
> many of my sighted colleagues went into computer programming. I also faced
> discrimination in applying for physics jobs but there weren't many
> protections to job-seekers back when I was looking for employment.
> 
> I've also played classical piano professionally -- I played Gershwin's
> Rhapsody in Blue with the Oregon Symphony and had to join the AFM to do so.
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolfe
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:58 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
> 
> 
>     What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
> lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
> vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
> of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood. I
> believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list are
> far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
> topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history and
> advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
> so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself out
> of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Peter
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:14:45 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: blinddog3 at charter.net,Blind Talk Mailing List
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>, "'Blind Talk Mailing List'"
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130324160116.01c498a0 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Good Sunday afternoon, Steve,
> 
> i read your post with some interest as I am also into social
> work.  And, if I may, wish to remind you of something that most
> likely, you already know, keep on volunteering and doing such
> meaningful work! You don't need to saddle yourself or in other ways
> impede your service to people, So you need not rush into a family.
> Look at how there are relatively few servants of people, to the
> number of folks per suing a family. So, what I'm saying is, don't
> rush it. When it's supposed to happen, I'm certain it will.
> for today, Car
> >Peter,  I have been reading these threads for quite some time now, and
> >decided to finally chime in.
> >
> >I too lost my sight later in life, well, sort of but at the age of 22.  Up
> >until that point, my career goals were already starting to fall in place as
> >I had graduated from a program where I was already working as a registered
> >x-ray technologist (radiologic technologist), but then decided to pursue
> >another field within diagnostic medicine, diagnostic medical Sonography
> >(ultrasound).  It was during this time, actually at the end of the first of
> >2 internships that I became gravely ill, and ended up withdrawing from the
> >program only to lose my sight within 4 months after that.  After receiving 
> >a
> >very successful kidney/pancreas transplant, I finally got back on my feet
> >only to get my first dog guide, enroll at  a State University and pursue a
> >BS in Community Health Education, and eventually my Master's.  With my
> >skills and background in the medical field, it would be a sheer waste to 
> >not
> >take those skills and use them in another fashion.  I ended up reentering
> >the job market a couple of years later, and was  now working in the Human
> >Service Field which I see as a subset of the broader medical umbrella, and
> >worked for our regional Independent Living Center as an Independent Living
> >Specialist.  I was fortunate to coordinate many programs and projects while
> >employed with this agency, and even ended up working in the employment 
> >field
> >for 6 years under a Federal Grant program called the Disability Navigator
> >Program working through our State's Job Center System.  After this grant
> >ended, I knew it was time to move on, and began working for county
> >government, as a Social Service specialist and more specifically, with the
> >ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) which works with adults with
> >physical and developmental disabilities as well as frail elders in making
> >sure that they remained in the community and received the programs and
> >services they needed in order to remain in their homes and not nursing
> >facilities.  Since that time almost 4 years ago, I have taken on a new
> >challenge within county government as of this past September, and now work
> >in the Child Protective Service section doing CPS intake as well as intake
> >and I&A for persons who have AODA backgrounds as well as mental health
> >issues.  I am also a self-taught JAWS user, and am very proficient in using
> >this program as we are accessing many databases and tools for ever report 
> >we
> >take as we are essentially starting the investigation process in finding
> >more about the alleged maltreaters so the workers can have more insight as
> >to what these individuals' backgrounds have been like.  In a nutshell, this
> >has all been done in the past 22 years since my transplants, and I have
> >accomplished more in this time as a person who is totally blind than in all
> >of the years previously as a sighted person.  Like so many, I have gone 
> >from
> >the benefit roles to the payroles, have purchased  a home, continue to do
> >all of those things I had when I was sighted including continuing to be an
> >avid  outdoorsman, e.g. hunter/fisher.  I attended no training program for
> >the blind, and have done everything I have because of my attitude.  I used
> >the skills I learned as a sighted person, and simply, transferred them to
> >that of being blind.  My reputation and integrity has always been something
> >I will not compromise, and continue to be involved in multiple volunteer
> >organizations outside of my 40 hour week, but choose those things that are
> >passionate to me, and those things that I know that there needs to be
> >representation from the larger disability community.  At one point, I was
> >involved in approximately 26 additional commitments outside of work, but
> >have since cut that down to those things truly important to me, and those
> >things that I know are not a waste of my time, and more importantly, 
> >others'
> >time.  Note: I am pretty sure that my passion for being involved with so
> >many things may have been a slight barrier to achieving one of my other 
> >life
> >goals, and that is to settle down and get married:)  But I assure you that
> >this one I still continue to work on. (grin)
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> >Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:25 AM
> >To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> >Peter,
> >
> >I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult.  Perhaps you, or
> >someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
> >
> > From a young age, I wanted to work with animals.  I started training dogs 
> > in
> >high school.  I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot.  I decided to go to
> >college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.  At
> >this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction.  I was
> >never taught a single alternative skill.  I didn't even know about CCTV's 
> >or
> >large print.  This was before computers were mainstream.
> >
> >I didn't do so well in college.  Partly that was because I lost a major
> >portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> >skills.  But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> >college or at least not the classroom part!  I was 17 when I started
> >college.   I had lived a fairly sheltered life.  My parents didn't go out 
> >of
> >
> >their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> >However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone. 
> >I
> >also feared doing many things because I didn't know how.  I could have 
> >taken
> >the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.  I
> >isolated myself.
> >
> >I gave up on veterinary technology.  Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> >am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had.  If I had not
> >lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> >be where I am now.  I love my life.  If I could go back and change 
> >anything,
> >I don't think I would.  I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> >learn and grow.
> >
> >I'll fast forward a few years.  I met a lot of people in college, made many
> >friends, one of them being my first husband.  I had figured out that there
> >were services for blind people, by accident.  I was starting to see
> >possibilities.
> >
> >We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> >to finish my associates degree in sociology.   Still no mainstream
> >computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> >talking books and RFB&D for textbooks.   My rehab counselor was my gateway
> >to all things blindness related.  I didn't know a single blind person.
> >
> >Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need 
> >changed
> >dramatically.  Now it was no longer about getting by or making do.  I 
> >needed
> >to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else.  I
> >learned Braille and cane travel right away.  My rehab counselor and teacher
> >brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> >cane.  they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools.  But when they
> >left I practiced like a mad woman.  I was only given the first ten letters
> >of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> >had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> >think of with those ten letters.  I took my cane when I went places.  I
> >wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
> >
> >I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on.  these
> >weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops.  I met
> >other blind people.  I soaked up everything like a sponge.  I eavesdropped
> >on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> >me.  My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly.  Before I met
> >other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> >would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher.  After I met blind 
> >people
> >who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors 
> >and
> >mothers I had hope for myself.
> >
> >I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> >sociology.  I had no job prospects.  My husband wanted to finish his degree
> >in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> >was located.  So he went to college and I went to get my blindness 
> >training.
> >
> >I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> >blind.  they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> >choices.  I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> >through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> >students.
> >
> >The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> >much time out of my life if I could at all help it.  From the first day I
> >was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> >months.  I asked what I needed to do to make that happen.  No delaying, no
> >messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> >homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months.  I read
> >Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and 
> >evenings
> >on my own.  I pushed myself hard.  I finished in three and a half months.
> >
> >As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> >connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor.  I started
> >working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training.  It was a
> >good job.  It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> >understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck.  However it also showed
> >me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized.  I needed to 
> >work
> >more directly with people.  I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated 
> >it.
> >
> >In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> >student.  I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> >health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally 
> >invested,
> >causing myself way too much stress.  I got divorced and became a single 
> >Mom.
> >
> >I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> >roommates.
> >
> >Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> >started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> >government.  I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> >all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in.  I had
> >basic skills I felt I could apply.  I had good connections with other blind
> >people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> >and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do.  The most valuable 
> >skills
> >a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> >problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself.  Some good basic
> >training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> >are also important.
> >
> >To answer your specific questions...
> >*How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> >know which fields to go into being blind? *
> >
> >My answer, I didn't.
> >I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> >skills.  I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I 
> >could.
> >
> >I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at 
> >the
> >park.  The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> >listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> >I learned to problem solve on the fly.
> >
> >*How did you overcome or continue to
> >overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> >economy and other adverse situations? *
> >
> >My answer.  I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> >illustrate how I have managed.
> >My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded.  this means it
> >is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> >year to the next.  I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> >uncertainty.  Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a 
> >decent
> >amount of job security.  After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> >Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money.  I attend the
> >training workshops on grant writing so I can get better.  I have applied 
> >for
> >and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs.  I started an
> >adult diversion program that is fee based.  Last year our grant was cut.  I
> >lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut.  However because I
> >had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
> >
> >There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> >could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> >justice in Nebraska.  I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> >year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from.  It
> >causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> >work.  I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> >supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
> >
> >In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business.  It will take 
> >a
> >good year for it to be fully functional and making money.  If all goes well
> >it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be 
> >something
> >to fall back on.  I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio.  I
> >have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> >another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
> >
> >As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go.  Since I've started
> >my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> >our statistical reporting.  It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> >charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible. 
> >There
> >are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people.  It has taken four
> >years, but finally everything is working as it should.
> >
> >I just bought an iPad late last summer.  I have never had any training on
> >how to use it.  I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> >out of the box.  The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> >different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it.  I have
> >learned how to use it by trial and error.  When I get stuck I ask the nice
> >folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> >devices.  I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> >internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
> >
> >I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> >what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it.  I figure if I do
> >nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year.  If I try something, I
> >have the chance to better myself.  I might not make the right decision or 
> >do
> >the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what 
> >I
> >learn is what doesn't work.
> >All my best,
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >blindtlk:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne
> >t
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 18:33:36 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <auto-000102265356 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Rehab traditionally called the persons receiving services
> clients.  However, for some, myself included, this word evokes a
> medical or one-way social services model, and gives power to the
> rehab folks.  So, the terms consumer, or customer came into
> use.  They both lean towards the person being able to choose to take,
> or not to take services, have some control over what those services are etc.
> 
> There isn't a perfect word -- but to me, either customer, or consumer
> is preferable to client.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 10:43 PM 3/23/2013, you wrote:
> >    Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
> >rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
> >inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
> >Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
> >demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
> >things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
> >looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
> >deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 21:01:49 -0400
> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIZZxuAcXbBMjwXShRiTFiICgQAAEAAAABLnFiYaAKFLm/XZY80CHo4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I'm not quite sure how to respond to your version of logic accept to
> challenge you to consult that dictionary again. The word "consumer" does not
> refer to someone who is nonproductive or isn't expected to produce.
> 
> I have heard insurance providers, the medical profession and any number of
> other service providers refer to their patrons as "consumers."
> 
> If I go shopping at Wal-Mart, I am most commonly referred to as a customer,
> but might also be referred to as a consumer.
> 
> Diane Graves
> 
> 
> Diane Graves
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolfe
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:08 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> 
> Diane,
> 
> 
>     Do you know anything in business like in the sense of terms? My family
> has owned three business with numerous contractual and business ventures and
> this consumer vs producer relationship is unique the disabled community. In
> a normal business, you are considered a customer meaning that you consum but
> assume the producer element with that status as well. A consumer title is
> meant to degrade and defile the blind to a status that assumes that we never
> have produce, won't produce or will find great difficulty in producing in
> the process of being trained or being hired and even employed. Yes, the
> client is a perminent relationship with a counselor like case management
> that is of a hierarchical nature not of what I speak about in general terms
> at all. Alas, I'd mention that linking the two consumer and producer more
> described than in Consumer reports that is to say that certain populations
> need protection that implies a status to it. In our case, we don't have the
> freedom of being disabled or not, so I could quote numerous rehabilitation
> staff whether in Washingtion D.C in Washington Center, E.H Gentry Technical
> Facility in Talladega Al or Lion's World Center in Little Rock Ark with this
> philosophy and that isn't just limited to those institutions by no means.
> BTW: I've also lived in Texas, New Mexico, Nevada and have worked in SBA and
> Red Stone Arsonal as well.
> 
> On 3/23/13, Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Blind people are considered consumers in this arena because they are
> > being provided a service. That service may be blindness skills
> > training or it may be educational services. It may also be job placement.
> >
> > Whatever the case may be, they are clients/consumers. The words are
> > one in the same. An attorney, for example might choose to call his
> > clients consumers of his services.
> >
> > If a sighted person applies for financial aide to go to school, they
> > are a consumer.
> > The word consumer doesn't mean that you aren't producing or can't produce.
> > I
> > challenge you to find a dictionary definition which links the two
> concepts.
> >
> > Diane Graves
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> > Wolfe
> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:43 PM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> >
> >    Why are blind people considered consumers in much of rehabilitation?
> > They
> > aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed inferior even by fellow
> > blind professions who work at such facilities.
> > Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
> > demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
> > things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
> > looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
> > deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
> >
> >
> > sincerely,
> > Peter
> >
> > On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >> Diane,
> >>
> >> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
> >>
> >> Mark Tardif
> >> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Diane Graves
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> >>
> >> Good Evening,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
> >> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
> >> having deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I
> >> apologize in advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject
> >> line on purpose, just in case there were others doing the same.
> >> However, tonight I am up late baking and have read a number of the
> >> posts, and feel compelled to share my sentiments on a few things, or
> >> the facts as I see them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one
> >> participant in the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I
> >> hear him saying that we in the federation need to "wake up and smell
> >> the coffee" and accept the fact that blindness does make us inferior.
> >> On the other hand, this same individual is saying that we need to
> >> come together to fight discrimination against the blind. If you,
> >> yourself, believe that you are inferior, then why should society stop
> >> discriminating? In fact, how can they stop discriminating? Why should
> >> employers hire us, and lessen that 70% unemployment rate, if we
> >> aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one
> >> size fits all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a
> >> like any more than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike.
> >> There are sighted people who are excellent construction workers, who
> >> do not have the people skills business prowess and any number of
> >> other skills necessary to be the CEO of a corporation.  That CEO
> >> might not have the athletic prowess to fight his way out of a cardboard
> box.
> >> That doesn't make either one of them inferior. They're just different.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> >> can't perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are
> >> just as varied in our abilities as the sighted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but
> >> also have a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a
> >> number of blind people who can run circles around me in the mobility
> >> arena, simply because they have the benefit of that good hearing. The
> >> fact that I have trouble at times, doesn't mean that they face the
> >> same drawbacks and that their skills are not excellent and far above
> mine.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer
> >> Braille to any other media, whereas there are other blind people who
> >> prefer to listen to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good
> >> enough that I could certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just
> >> get more out of a book when actively reading it myself. Some of those
> >> people with the superb mobility skills may not have the same prowess
> >> in Braille that I do. We are all different.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
> >> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> >> their money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start
> >> talking about programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact
> >> that I can't do it, doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I
> >> hear this person  telling us that we are a cookie cutter
> >> organization, while at the same time cutting his own cookies by
> >> telling us that we are all severely limited.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We
> >> have Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes
> >> and those who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any
> >> variation that you could think of. What unites us is our desire and
> >> our intent to fight the discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist
> >> who believed that there was only one way of doing things and one
> >> standard as it relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra
> >> of the organization at all.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you
> >> can't take my dreams.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Diane Graves
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roa
> >> d
> >> runner.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date:
> >> 03/21/13
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gm
> >> a
> >> il.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cordially,
> > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > cum laude Auburn University
> > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> > Peter Q Wolfe
> > "Stand up for your rights"
> > Bob Marley
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%
> > 40gmai
> > l.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gma
> > il.com
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 21:18:17 -0400
> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIZZxuAcXbBMjwXShRiTFiICgQAAEAAAABJTIbuqe7ZHqzQ8PM6bnHoBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> Julie,
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing your story. I'd be interested in hearing about
> your web based business. Can you talk some about that? What type of book are
> you writing?
> 
> Diane Graves
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:25 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> Peter,
> 
> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult.  Perhaps you, or
> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
> 
> >From a young age, I wanted to work with animals.  I started training dogs 
> >in
> high school.  I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot.  I decided to go to
> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.  At
> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction.  I was
> never taught a single alternative skill.  I didn't even know about CCTV's or
> large print.  This was before computers were mainstream.
> 
> I didn't do so well in college.  Partly that was because I lost a major
> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> skills.  But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> college or at least not the classroom part!  I was 17 when I started
> college.   I had lived a fairly sheltered life.  My parents didn't go out of
> 
> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.  I
> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how.  I could have taken
> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.  I
> isolated myself.
> 
> I gave up on veterinary technology.  Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had.  If I had not
> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> be where I am now.  I love my life.  If I could go back and change anything,
> I don't think I would.  I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> learn and grow.
> 
> I'll fast forward a few years.  I met a lot of people in college, made many
> friends, one of them being my first husband.  I had figured out that there
> were services for blind people, by accident.  I was starting to see
> possibilities.
> 
> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> to finish my associates degree in sociology.   Still no mainstream
> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks.   My rehab counselor was my gateway
> to all things blindness related.  I didn't know a single blind person.
> 
> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need changed
> dramatically.  Now it was no longer about getting by or making do.  I needed
> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else.  I
> learned Braille and cane travel right away.  My rehab counselor and teacher
> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> cane.  they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools.  But when they
> left I practiced like a mad woman.  I was only given the first ten letters
> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> think of with those ten letters.  I took my cane when I went places.  I
> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
> 
> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on.  these
> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops.  I met
> other blind people.  I soaked up everything like a sponge.  I eavesdropped
> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> me.  My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly.  Before I met
> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher.  After I met blind people
> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors and
> mothers I had hope for myself.
> 
> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> sociology.  I had no job prospects.  My husband wanted to finish his degree
> in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> was located.  So he went to college and I went to get my blindness training.
> 
> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> blind.  they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> choices.  I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> students.
> 
> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> much time out of my life if I could at all help it.  From the first day I
> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> months.  I asked what I needed to do to make that happen.  No delaying, no
> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months.  I read
> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and evenings
> on my own.  I pushed myself hard.  I finished in three and a half months.
> 
> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor.  I started
> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training.  It was a
> good job.  It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck.  However it also showed
> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized.  I needed to work
> more directly with people.  I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated it.
> 
> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> student.  I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally invested,
> causing myself way too much stress.  I got divorced and became a single Mom.
> 
> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> roommates.
> 
> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> government.  I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in.  I had
> basic skills I felt I could apply.  I had good connections with other blind
> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do.  The most valuable skills
> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself.  Some good basic
> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> are also important.
> 
> To answer your specific questions...
> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> know which fields to go into being blind? *
> 
> My answer, I didn't.
> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> skills.  I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I could.
> 
> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at the
> park.  The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
> 
> *How did you overcome or continue to
> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> economy and other adverse situations? *
> 
> My answer.  I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> illustrate how I have managed.
> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded.  this means it
> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> year to the next.  I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> uncertainty.  Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a decent
> amount of job security.  After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money.  I attend the
> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better.  I have applied for
> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs.  I started an
> adult diversion program that is fee based.  Last year our grant was cut.  I
> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut.  However because I
> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
> 
> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> justice in Nebraska.  I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from.  It
> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> work.  I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
> 
> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business.  It will take a
> good year for it to be fully functional and making money.  If all goes well
> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be something
> to fall back on.  I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio.  I
> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
> 
> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go.  Since I've started
> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> our statistical reporting.  It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.  There
> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people.  It has taken four
> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
> 
> I just bought an iPad late last summer.  I have never had any training on
> how to use it.  I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> out of the box.  The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it.  I have
> learned how to use it by trial and error.  When I get stuck I ask the nice
> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> devices.  I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
> 
> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it.  I figure if I do
> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year.  If I try something, I
> have the chance to better myself.  I might not make the right decision or do
> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what I
> learn is what doesn't work.
> All my best,
> Julie
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:36:25 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np0LH3a6SFX6HY4urY5Buo4MVeqL5Do8E4LQ+s8VPd8jYA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
>     Thanks for your e-mail even if it assumes things that I don't
> believe in or have stated! Much of what you said that I covered in my
> questions e-mail! Anyways, I do appreciate the sincere effort and have
> heard of oddities of feats of some blind people that can have multiple
> reasons not just one reason like having vision prior like a medical
> doctor in ACB in Houston, Texas just a small example with former sight
> or whatever.
> 
> 
>     What type of computer programming do you do Mike or have done in
> your past jobs? I'm curious cause this is something that is a hobby of
> mine and something that I've become rusty in as well. My thing is that
> I don't know nemeth code and was openly discouraged by the Principle
> of American School for the Blind and was openly referred to get my GED
> not my high school diploma because of that conversation that we had. I
> also wonder with shifting software that has it become easier in your
> jobs or harder to keep up especially with unfamilar technology
> unaccessible to the blind? I wonder how flexible the employers whether
> private or public have been in such scenarios?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter
> 
> On 3/24/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
> > i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine work
> > producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years 
> > because
> >
> > they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as popular
> > or important than white collar jobs.
> >
> > Bryan Schulz
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> > To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> >
> >> Peter:
> >>
> >> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy and
> >> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor becomes
> >> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again. I
> >> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
> >> might
> >> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
> >> about
> >> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
> >> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
> >> worries
> >> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
> >>
> >> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
> >> asking
> >> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within the
> >> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of us
> >> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers and
> >> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone else,
> >> you
> >> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
> >> interests
> >> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
> >> whatever
> >> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that
> >> you
> >> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might not
> >> be
> >> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the case
> >> and
> >> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a blind
> >> man
> >> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
> >> electricians,
> >> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
> >> blind
> >> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I met a
> >> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day job
> >> but
> >> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department employed
> >> him
> >> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the misfortune
> >>
> >> of
> >> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
> >> water
> >> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
> >> couldn't
> >> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his hobby
> >> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
> >> since
> >> that I didn't get the guy's name.
> >>
> >> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this one
> >> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind person.
> >>
> >> Or
> >> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while, Federation
> >> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
> >> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind person
> >> and
> >> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
> >> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high school
> >> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a while
> >> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
> >> that
> >> query.
> >>
> >> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
> >> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
> >> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies to
> >> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
> >> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat here
> >> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
> >> recognize
> >> this.
> >>
> >> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
> >>
> >> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of the
> >> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that there
> >>
> >> is
> >> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
> >> misguided
> >> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools and
> >> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
> >>
> >> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
> >> least
> >> at first, but there it is.
> >>
> >> Mike Freeman
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> >> Wolfe
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
> >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>
> >> cheryl,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
> >> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
> >> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
> >> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
> >> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
> >> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
> >> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
> >> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
> >> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
> >> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
> >> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
> >>
> >>
> >>    I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
> >> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
> >> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
> >> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
> >> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
> >> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> >> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
> >> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
> >> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
> >> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
> >> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
> >> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
> >> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
> >> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
> >> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
> >> the real economy.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Good morning all:
> >>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college graduate
> >> of
> >>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
> >>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help me
> >>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the things I
> >>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
> >>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
> >>> hearing
> >>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also good
> >>> knife skills.
> >>> The business part always helps in any profession.
> >>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an office/sales
> >>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
> >>> 2001
> >> as
> >>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
> >> company
> >>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due to
> >>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
> >>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained by
> >>> the
> >>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to be
> >>> a
> >>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked as a
> >>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other testing
> >>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
> >> 2009,
> >>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have been
> >>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY as
> >> well
> >>> as by Governor Cuomo.
> >>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do it.
> >>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight for
> >> all
> >>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
> >>> Cheryl
> >>>
> >>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> >>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> >>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> >>>
> >> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
> >> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> >>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> >>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
> >>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation
> >> of
> >>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
> >>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
> >> vacation
> >>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
> >>> must
> >> be
> >>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to
> >> the
> >>> affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
> >>> families
> >>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
> >>> affiliate
> >>> as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
> >>> through
> >>> us.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
> >>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter,
> >>>>     There is a wealth of information available on various professions
> >>>> blind
> >>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
> >>>> challenging
> >>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have not
> >> yet
> >>>>
> >>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional musician
> >>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
> >>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
> >>>> saddam
> >>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas employment
> >>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in Psychology
> >>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. I
> >>>> am
> >>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
> >>>> though
> >> I
> >>>>
> >>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
> >>>> Director.
> >>>>     When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
> >> Health
> >>>> &
> >>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com)  I
> >>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. I
> >>>> share
> >>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use all
> >> your
> >>>>
> >>>> assets as you network with others!
> >>>>
> >>>> Fraternally yours,
> >>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
> >>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
> >>>> National Federation of the Blind
> >>>> 813-626-2789
> >>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
> >>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
> >>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >    What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
> >>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
> >>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
> >>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood.
> >>>> > I
> >>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list
> >>>> > are
> >>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
> >>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history
> >>>> > and
> >>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
> >>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself
> >>>> > out
> >>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Thank you,
> >>>> > Peter
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > blindtlk mailing list
> >>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> > blindtlk:
> >>>> >
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> blindtlk:
> >>>>
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
> >> l.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>>
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cordially,
> >> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> >> cum laude Auburn University
> >> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> >> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> >> Peter Q Wolfe
> >> "Stand up for your rights"
> >> Bob Marley
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 19:41:41 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np3YK9j6ONqwg3KojwSopzsx0oKTqK1uMoskuAj=MTStvw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
>     What is for dinner? I just disagree with the labels of disabled
> people or in fact the world disabled in the first place. What is
> fundamentally broken by a blind person? I don't like handicapped,
> disabled, consumer, client or any of it. I'd rather have participant
> or customer would be okay as well just not consumer. It implies a
> causality that and it reduces you to a number.
> 
> 
>     First and foremost that we're all individuals right? I've had a
> local taxi company in Auburn of my former college city call me "Blind
> Pete". Can you imagine how enraged that they wouldn't change me for
> two years just tcontiniously calling me "Blind Pete" even saved in
> their contacts as that name too. Its like people attempt to turn you
> into a object that dcan be treated less than a normal homo sapien.
> Anyone else with similar experiences? This drives me insaine that way
> don't usually ever gets to me but lately not as easy to do.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter
> 
> On 3/24/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> > Peter:
> >
> > You're obsessing about the word "consumer" too much. In using that word,
> > both rehab and most blind persons merely mean a designation of someone
> > receiving services and, if we are honest, it's also a way to avoid the 
> > word
> > "client" which some of us hate. Frankly, I don't care what you call me as
> > long as you call me for dinner. (grin) Our state department of services 
> > for
> > the blind calls those whom it serves "customers".
> >
> > Mike Freeman
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> > Wolfe
> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:43 PM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> >
> >    Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
> > rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
> > inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
> > Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
> > demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
> > things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
> > looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
> > deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
> >
> >
> > sincerely,
> > Peter
> >
> > On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >> Diane,
> >>
> >> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
> >>
> >> Mark Tardif
> >> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Diane Graves
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> >>
> >> Good Evening,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
> >> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
> >> having
> >> deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize in
> >> advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
> >> just
> >> in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
> >> baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share
> >> my
> >> sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one participant
> > in
> >> the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
> > that
> >> we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept
> >> the
> >> fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
> >> individual is saying that we need to come together to fight
> >> discrimination
> >> against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, then
> >> why
> >> should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
> >> discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
> >> unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
> >> fits
> >> all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any more
> >> than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are
> >> sighted
> >> people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the people
> >> skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be
> >> the
> >> CEO of a corporation.  That CEO  might not have the athletic prowess to
> >> fight his way out of a cardboard box.  That doesn't make either one of
> > them
> >> inferior. They're just different.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> > can't
> >> perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
> >> varied in our abilities as the sighted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> > have
> >> a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of blind
> >> people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply
> >> because
> >> they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have trouble
> > at
> >> times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
> > skills
> >> are not excellent and far above mine.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
> >> to
> >> any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
> >> listen
> >> to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
> >> certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
> > when
> >> actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb mobility
> >> skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
> >> different.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
> >> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> > their
> >> money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
> >> about
> >> programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do it,
> >> doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I hear
> >> this person  telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while
> >> at
> >> the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
> >> severely
> >> limited.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
> >> Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
> >> those
> >> who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that you
> >> could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight the
> >> discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
> >> believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard as
> > it
> >> relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
> >> organization
> >> at all.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> > take
> >> my dreams.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Diane Graves
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
> > .com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 03/21/13
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cordially,
> > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > cum laude Auburn University
> > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> > Peter Q Wolfe
> > "Stand up for your rights"
> > Bob Marley
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:48:20 -0500
> From: sarah harris <sarahandfamily at live.com>
> To: "blindtlk at nfbnet.org" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindtlk] product advice
> Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS15580836867CA1A40392490B7D70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
>    Good evening. I recently sold a Pac Mate omni and am considering all my 
> options. would it be better in the long run to buy a notetaker, or should I 
> just buy a braille display I can use with apple devices or a pc? what would 
> be the best device to use in an employment setting if i needed to take 
> notes? Thank you.
>      Sarah Harris
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:23:13 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] product advice
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np1YtmJL2CBFEDi1CkWg_8b2vRx5Hq4srMd44tC16YS8HQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
>    What type of work  are you planning on doing with this notetaking
> device? A profession to me determines the appropriate tools that and
> your personality type as well. In general, the notetaker is preferable
> not for me but for the majority that it suffices. I choose to blend in
> with existing technology that I don't need to modify as much to
> instantly share my devices, information with compatable formats or to
> show visually with nonforeign technology with my peers that is just
> me. I don't want to call attention to my blindness not adding to it in
> a job setting. Hope this gives you another prospective cause I've used
> Braille Note M-Power 32 saille and undergone training in IRS that has
> a SEAT standard of working with braille displays so it helps to know
> more info the help out with questions like this.
> 
> 
> hope this helps,
> Peter
> 
> On 3/24/13, sarah harris <sarahandfamily at live.com> wrote:
> >
> >    Good evening. I recently sold a Pac Mate omni and am considering all my
> > options. would it be better in the long run to buy a notetaker, or should 
> > I
> > just buy a braille display I can use with apple devices or a pc? what 
> > would
> > be the best device to use in an employment setting if i needed to take
> > notes? Thank you.
> >      Sarah Harris
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 02:33:16 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: <blinddog3 at charter.net>, "'Blind Talk Mailing List'"
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <00ac01ce2859$782a46c0$687ed440$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Go get them. Steeve.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
> Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> Peter,  I have been reading these threads for quite some time now, and
> decided to finally chime in.
> 
> I too lost my sight later in life, well, sort of but at the age of 22.  Up
> until that point, my career goals were already starting to fall in place as
> I had graduated from a program where I was already working as a registered
> x-ray technologist (radiologic technologist), but then decided to pursue
> another field within diagnostic medicine, diagnostic medical Sonography
> (ultrasound).  It was during this time, actually at the end of the first of
> 2 internships that I became gravely ill, and ended up withdrawing from the
> program only to lose my sight within 4 months after that.  After receiving a
> very successful kidney/pancreas transplant, I finally got back on my feet
> only to get my first dog guide, enroll at  a State University and pursue a
> BS in Community Health Education, and eventually my Master's.  With my
> skills and background in the medical field, it would be a sheer waste to not
> take those skills and use them in another fashion.  I ended up reentering
> the job market a couple of years later, and was  now working in the Human
> Service Field which I see as a subset of the broader medical umbrella, and
> worked for our regional Independent Living Center as an Independent Living
> Specialist.  I was fortunate to coordinate many programs and projects while
> employed with this agency, and even ended up working in the employment field
> for 6 years under a Federal Grant program called the Disability Navigator
> Program working through our State's Job Center System.  After this grant
> ended, I knew it was time to move on, and began working for county
> government, as a Social Service specialist and more specifically, with the
> ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) which works with adults with
> physical and developmental disabilities as well as frail elders in making
> sure that they remained in the community and received the programs and
> services they needed in order to remain in their homes and not nursing
> facilities.  Since that time almost 4 years ago, I have taken on a new
> challenge within county government as of this past September, and now work
> in the Child Protective Service section doing CPS intake as well as intake
> and I&A for persons who have AODA backgrounds as well as mental health
> issues.  I am also a self-taught JAWS user, and am very proficient in using
> this program as we are accessing many databases and tools for ever report we
> take as we are essentially starting the investigation process in finding
> more about the alleged maltreaters so the workers can have more insight as
> to what these individuals' backgrounds have been like.  In a nutshell, this
> has all been done in the past 22 years since my transplants, and I have
> accomplished more in this time as a person who is totally blind than in all
> of the years previously as a sighted person.  Like so many, I have gone from
> the benefit roles to the payroles, have purchased  a home, continue to do
> all of those things I had when I was sighted including continuing to be an
> avid  outdoorsman, e.g. hunter/fisher.  I attended no training program for
> the blind, and have done everything I have because of my attitude.  I used
> the skills I learned as a sighted person, and simply, transferred them to
> that of being blind.  My reputation and integrity has always been something
> I will not compromise, and continue to be involved in multiple volunteer
> organizations outside of my 40 hour week, but choose those things that are
> passionate to me, and those things that I know that there needs to be
> representation from the larger disability community.  At one point, I was
> involved in approximately 26 additional commitments outside of work, but
> have since cut that down to those things truly important to me, and those
> things that I know are not a waste of my time, and more importantly, others'
> time.  Note: I am pretty sure that my passion for being involved with so
> many things may have been a slight barrier to achieving one of my other life
> goals, and that is to settle down and get married:)  But I assure you that
> this one I still continue to work on. (grin)
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:25 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> Peter,
> 
> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult.  Perhaps you, or
> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
> 
> >From a young age, I wanted to work with animals.  I started training dogs 
> >in
> high school.  I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot.  I decided to go to
> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.  At
> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction.  I was
> never taught a single alternative skill.  I didn't even know about CCTV's or
> large print.  This was before computers were mainstream.
> 
> I didn't do so well in college.  Partly that was because I lost a major
> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> skills.  But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> college or at least not the classroom part!  I was 17 when I started
> college.   I had lived a fairly sheltered life.  My parents didn't go out of
> 
> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.  I
> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how.  I could have taken
> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.  I
> isolated myself.
> 
> I gave up on veterinary technology.  Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had.  If I had not
> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> be where I am now.  I love my life.  If I could go back and change anything,
> I don't think I would.  I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> learn and grow.
> 
> I'll fast forward a few years.  I met a lot of people in college, made many
> friends, one of them being my first husband.  I had figured out that there
> were services for blind people, by accident.  I was starting to see
> possibilities.
> 
> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> to finish my associates degree in sociology.   Still no mainstream
> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks.   My rehab counselor was my gateway
> to all things blindness related.  I didn't know a single blind person.
> 
> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need changed
> dramatically.  Now it was no longer about getting by or making do.  I needed
> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else.  I
> learned Braille and cane travel right away.  My rehab counselor and teacher
> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> cane.  they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools.  But when they
> left I practiced like a mad woman.  I was only given the first ten letters
> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> think of with those ten letters.  I took my cane when I went places.  I
> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
> 
> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on.  these
> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops.  I met
> other blind people.  I soaked up everything like a sponge.  I eavesdropped
> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> me.  My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly.  Before I met
> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher.  After I met blind people
> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors and
> mothers I had hope for myself.
> 
> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> sociology.  I had no job prospects.  My husband wanted to finish his degree
> in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> was located.  So he went to college and I went to get my blindness training.
> 
> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> blind.  they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> choices.  I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> students.
> 
> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> much time out of my life if I could at all help it.  From the first day I
> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> months.  I asked what I needed to do to make that happen.  No delaying, no
> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months.  I read
> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and evenings
> on my own.  I pushed myself hard.  I finished in three and a half months.
> 
> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor.  I started
> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training.  It was a
> good job.  It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck.  However it also showed
> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized.  I needed to work
> more directly with people.  I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated it.
> 
> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> student.  I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally invested,
> causing myself way too much stress.  I got divorced and became a single Mom.
> 
> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> roommates.
> 
> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> government.  I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in.  I had
> basic skills I felt I could apply.  I had good connections with other blind
> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do.  The most valuable skills
> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself.  Some good basic
> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> are also important.
> 
> To answer your specific questions...
> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> know which fields to go into being blind? *
> 
> My answer, I didn't.
> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> skills.  I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I could.
> 
> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at the
> park.  The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
> 
> *How did you overcome or continue to
> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> economy and other adverse situations? *
> 
> My answer.  I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> illustrate how I have managed.
> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded.  this means it
> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> year to the next.  I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> uncertainty.  Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a decent
> amount of job security.  After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money.  I attend the
> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better.  I have applied for
> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs.  I started an
> adult diversion program that is fee based.  Last year our grant was cut.  I
> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut.  However because I
> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
> 
> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> justice in Nebraska.  I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from.  It
> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> work.  I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
> 
> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business.  It will take a
> good year for it to be fully functional and making money.  If all goes well
> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be something
> to fall back on.  I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio.  I
> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
> 
> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go.  Since I've started
> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> our statistical reporting.  It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.  There
> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people.  It has taken four
> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
> 
> I just bought an iPad late last summer.  I have never had any training on
> how to use it.  I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> out of the box.  The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it.  I have
> learned how to use it by trial and error.  When I get stuck I ask the nice
> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> devices.  I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
> 
> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it.  I figure if I do
> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year.  If I try something, I
> have the chance to better myself.  I might not make the right decision or do
> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what I
> learn is what doesn't work.
> All my best,
> Julie
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne
> t
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gma
> il.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 02:41:19 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <00db01ce285a$982e1e50$c88a5af0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Wow, Julie,  You're kind of, well sort of just a little bit awesome.
> Determination, Tanacity, and ferocity all roled into one.  What a career.
> Next drink I have, I'll be raising one to you.
> Cheers.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:25 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> Peter,
> 
> I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult.  Perhaps you, or
> someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
> 
> >From a young age, I wanted to work with animals.  I started training dogs 
> >in
> high school.  I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot.  I decided to go to
> college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.  At
> this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction.  I was
> never taught a single alternative skill.  I didn't even know about CCTV's or
> large print.  This was before computers were mainstream.
> 
> I didn't do so well in college.  Partly that was because I lost a major
> portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> skills.  But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> college or at least not the classroom part!  I was 17 when I started
> college.   I had lived a fairly sheltered life.  My parents didn't go out of
> 
> their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.  I
> also feared doing many things because I didn't know how.  I could have taken
> the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid.  I
> isolated myself.
> 
> I gave up on veterinary technology.  Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had.  If I had not
> lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would not
> be where I am now.  I love my life.  If I could go back and change anything,
> I don't think I would.  I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I could
> learn and grow.
> 
> I'll fast forward a few years.  I met a lot of people in college, made many
> friends, one of them being my first husband.  I had figured out that there
> were services for blind people, by accident.  I was starting to see
> possibilities.
> 
> We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> to finish my associates degree in sociology.   Still no mainstream
> computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> talking books and RFB&D for textbooks.   My rehab counselor was my gateway
> to all things blindness related.  I didn't know a single blind person.
> 
> Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need changed
> dramatically.  Now it was no longer about getting by or making do.  I needed
> to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else.  I
> learned Braille and cane travel right away.  My rehab counselor and teacher
> brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> cane.  they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools.  But when they
> left I practiced like a mad woman.  I was only given the first ten letters
> of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> think of with those ten letters.  I took my cane when I went places.  I
> wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
> 
> I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on.  these
> weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops.  I met
> other blind people.  I soaked up everything like a sponge.  I eavesdropped
> on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> me.  My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly.  Before I met
> other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher.  After I met blind people
> who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors and
> mothers I had hope for myself.
> 
> I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> sociology.  I had no job prospects.  My husband wanted to finish his degree
> in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> was located.  So he went to college and I went to get my blindness training.
> 
> I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for the
> blind.  they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> choices.  I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> students.
> 
> The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> much time out of my life if I could at all help it.  From the first day I
> was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> months.  I asked what I needed to do to make that happen.  No delaying, no
> messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months.  I read
> Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and evenings
> on my own.  I pushed myself hard.  I finished in three and a half months.
> 
> As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor.  I started
> working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training.  It was a
> good job.  It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck.  However it also showed
> me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized.  I needed to work
> more directly with people.  I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated it.
> 
> In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> student.  I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally invested,
> causing myself way too much stress.  I got divorced and became a single Mom.
> 
> I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> roommates.
> 
> Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> government.  I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to manage
> all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in.  I had
> basic skills I felt I could apply.  I had good connections with other blind
> people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the skills
> and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do.  The most valuable skills
> a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself.  Some good basic
> training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support you
> are also important.
> 
> To answer your specific questions...
> *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> know which fields to go into being blind? *
> 
> My answer, I didn't.
> I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> skills.  I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I could.
> 
> I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at the
> park.  The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> I learned to problem solve on the fly.
> 
> *How did you overcome or continue to
> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> economy and other adverse situations? *
> 
> My answer.  I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> illustrate how I have managed.
> My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded.  this means it
> is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> year to the next.  I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> uncertainty.  Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a decent
> amount of job security.  After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money.  I attend the
> training workshops on grant writing so I can get better.  I have applied for
> and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs.  I started an
> adult diversion program that is fee based.  Last year our grant was cut.  I
> lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut.  However because I
> had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
> 
> There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year that
> could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> justice in Nebraska.  I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from.  It
> causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> work.  I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
> 
> In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business.  It will take a
> good year for it to be fully functional and making money.  If all goes well
> it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be something
> to fall back on.  I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio.  I
> have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
> 
> As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go.  Since I've started
> my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> our statistical reporting.  It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.  There
> are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people.  It has taken four
> years, but finally everything is working as it should.
> 
> I just bought an iPad late last summer.  I have never had any training on
> how to use it.  I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> out of the box.  The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it.  I have
> learned how to use it by trial and error.  When I get stuck I ask the nice
> folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> devices.  I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
> 
> I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it.  I figure if I do
> nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year.  If I try something, I
> have the chance to better myself.  I might not make the right decision or do
> the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what I
> learn is what doesn't work.
> All my best,
> Julie
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gma
> il.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:46:44 -0600
> From: Peter Wolfe <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID:
> <CAGL4Np3h3hq=mzkOqeiouSOHcbsoxzQbvRxs0yxW3K3knX1Uhw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Steve,
> 
> 
>     Thanks for this story cause it helped shed some light on anotther
> prospective of rehabilitation for others like me. I still have lots of
> questions on your decision process of being employed and choosing your
> major post-blindness within your field. You had to think rationally
> that you can't do what you formerly did, so picked the next best thing
> with blindness. So, I wonder what all did you put into consideration
> in that transition and what helped you prepare for jobs?
> 
> 
>     What stops lots of blind people including me is the word "Database
> in any requirements that we think that we cannot do as well as others.
> I also want to prepare for the requirements not said in the posting,
> so continue seeking employment and all even with private companies
> like h insurance companies and the alike. I am going for training for
> Jaws but haven't recieved my software. I guess the narrative is the
> scary part is being on my own like I once was with my sight. If I fail
> then there is no social support net like others on here like me. My
> family is out of the picture in any financial or social commitment
> towards me so that makes my decisions weigh that much for it. Hard to
> explain the challenges cause its hard to find a job with my degree of
> poli sci.
> 
> 
>     Lastly, if any of you have any ideas just feel free to share them
> with me. I realize poli sci isn't a turminal degree so thought about
> human resources, financial aid advisor,, Veterns Administration,
> Social Security representative or something else. I have also lost the
> ability of normal application process of normal sighted people in this
> tribulation too. I don't know how even normal people unskilled like me
> can meet the requirements of the job. Maybe perhaps none of this makes
> any sense to you guys just feel so insecure with the future. I've
> already had three jobs not lead to a career and hard not to feel
> discouraged by this point.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter
> 
> On 3/24/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Go get them. Steeve.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
> > Johnson
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> > Peter,  I have been reading these threads for quite some time now, and
> > decided to finally chime in.
> >
> > I too lost my sight later in life, well, sort of but at the age of 22.  Up
> > until that point, my career goals were already starting to fall in place 
> > as
> > I had graduated from a program where I was already working as a registered
> > x-ray technologist (radiologic technologist), but then decided to pursue
> > another field within diagnostic medicine, diagnostic medical Sonography
> > (ultrasound).  It was during this time, actually at the end of the first 
> > of
> > 2 internships that I became gravely ill, and ended up withdrawing from the
> > program only to lose my sight within 4 months after that.  After receiving
> > a
> > very successful kidney/pancreas transplant, I finally got back on my feet
> > only to get my first dog guide, enroll at  a State University and pursue a
> > BS in Community Health Education, and eventually my Master's.  With my
> > skills and background in the medical field, it would be a sheer waste to
> > not
> > take those skills and use them in another fashion.  I ended up reentering
> > the job market a couple of years later, and was  now working in the Human
> > Service Field which I see as a subset of the broader medical umbrella, and
> > worked for our regional Independent Living Center as an Independent Living
> > Specialist.  I was fortunate to coordinate many programs and projects 
> > while
> > employed with this agency, and even ended up working in the employment
> > field
> > for 6 years under a Federal Grant program called the Disability Navigator
> > Program working through our State's Job Center System.  After this grant
> > ended, I knew it was time to move on, and began working for county
> > government, as a Social Service specialist and more specifically, with the
> > ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) which works with adults with
> > physical and developmental disabilities as well as frail elders in making
> > sure that they remained in the community and received the programs and
> > services they needed in order to remain in their homes and not nursing
> > facilities.  Since that time almost 4 years ago, I have taken on a new
> > challenge within county government as of this past September, and now work
> > in the Child Protective Service section doing CPS intake as well as intake
> > and I&A for persons who have AODA backgrounds as well as mental health
> > issues.  I am also a self-taught JAWS user, and am very proficient in 
> > using
> > this program as we are accessing many databases and tools for ever report
> > we
> > take as we are essentially starting the investigation process in finding
> > more about the alleged maltreaters so the workers can have more insight as
> > to what these individuals' backgrounds have been like.  In a nutshell, 
> > this
> > has all been done in the past 22 years since my transplants, and I have
> > accomplished more in this time as a person who is totally blind than in 
> > all
> > of the years previously as a sighted person.  Like so many, I have gone
> > from
> > the benefit roles to the payroles, have purchased  a home, continue to do
> > all of those things I had when I was sighted including continuing to be an
> > avid  outdoorsman, e.g. hunter/fisher.  I attended no training program for
> > the blind, and have done everything I have because of my attitude.  I used
> > the skills I learned as a sighted person, and simply, transferred them to
> > that of being blind.  My reputation and integrity has always been 
> > something
> > I will not compromise, and continue to be involved in multiple volunteer
> > organizations outside of my 40 hour week, but choose those things that are
> > passionate to me, and those things that I know that there needs to be
> > representation from the larger disability community.  At one point, I was
> > involved in approximately 26 additional commitments outside of work, but
> > have since cut that down to those things truly important to me, and those
> > things that I know are not a waste of my time, and more importantly,
> > others'
> > time.  Note: I am pretty sure that my passion for being involved with so
> > many things may have been a slight barrier to achieving one of my other
> > life
> > goals, and that is to settle down and get married:)  But I assure you that
> > this one I still continue to work on. (grin)
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:25 AM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > I'm not Cheryl, but I also became blind as an adult.  Perhaps you, or
> > someone else on list, will find something helpful in my story.
> >
> > From a young age, I wanted to work with animals.  I started training dogs
> > in
> > high school.  I was good at it and enjoyed it a lot.  I decided to go to
> > college to become a veterinary technician, a sort of veterinary nurse.  At
> > this time in my life my vision was about 20/100 after correction.  I was
> > never taught a single alternative skill.  I didn't even know about CCTV's
> > or
> > large print.  This was before computers were mainstream.
> >
> > I didn't do so well in college.  Partly that was because I lost a major
> > portion of my vision during this time in my life and had zero alternative
> > skills.  But to be perfectly honest it was also because I wasn't ready for
> > college or at least not the classroom part!  I was 17 when I started
> > college.   I had lived a fairly sheltered life.  My parents didn't go out
> > of
> >
> > their way to limit the things I did because of my visual impairment.
> > However I lived in a place where it wasn't safe to go out at night alone.
> > I
> > also feared doing many things because I didn't know how.  I could have
> > taken
> > the bus to go shopping or to a movie, but I didn't because I was afraid. 
> > I
> > isolated myself.
> >
> > I gave up on veterinary technology.  Sometimes I regret this, but mostly I
> > am grateful for the opportunities and experiences I have had.  If I had 
> > not
> > lost most of the rest of my vision and made the choices I have, I would 
> > not
> > be where I am now.  I love my life.  If I could go back and change
> > anything,
> > I don't think I would.  I needed to make the bad decisions I did so I 
> > could
> > learn and grow.
> >
> > I'll fast forward a few years.  I met a lot of people in college, made 
> > many
> > friends, one of them being my first husband.  I had figured out that there
> > were services for blind people, by accident.  I was starting to see
> > possibilities.
> >
> > We moved around a lot, eventually settling in one place long enough for me
> > to finish my associates degree in sociology.   Still no mainstream
> > computers, but I had a borrowed CCTV and was using large print, readers,
> > talking books and RFB&D for textbooks.   My rehab counselor was my gateway
> > to all things blindness related.  I didn't know a single blind person.
> >
> > Then I became pregnant and my perspective on the skills I would need
> > changed
> > dramatically.  Now it was no longer about getting by or making do.  I
> > needed
> > to get myself together because now I was responsible for someone else.  I
> > learned Braille and cane travel right away.  My rehab counselor and 
> > teacher
> > brought me the basic tools like a slate and stylus, Braille paper and a
> > cane.  they gave me brief lessons in how to use these tools.  But when 
> > they
> > left I practiced like a mad woman.  I was only given the first ten letters
> > of the alphabet in my first lesson, but by the time my teacher came back I
> > had filled up every sheet of paper she had left with every word I could
> > think of with those ten letters.  I took my cane when I went places.  I
> > wasn't very good with it, but I was learning.
> >
> > I attended a few workshops the state agency for the blind put on.  these
> > weren't skill based, but more like college and employment workshops.  I 
> > met
> > other blind people.  I soaked up everything like a sponge.  I eavesdropped
> > on other people's conversations, hoping to pick up tidbits that could help
> > me.  My world view of what I could do was changing rapidly.  Before I met
> > other blind people and started learning alternative skills, I thought I
> > would work in jobs like housekeeper or dishwasher.  After I met blind
> > people
> > who were lawyers, genetic counselors, diesel mechanics, agency directors
> > and
> > mothers I had hope for myself.
> >
> > I finished my last two years of college, graduating with a B.S. degree in
> > sociology.  I had no job prospects.  My husband wanted to finish his 
> > degree
> > in the same town where the state residential training center for the blind
> > was located.  So he went to college and I went to get my blindness
> > training.
> >
> > I am so grateful to the progressive attitude of the Nebraska center for 
> > the
> > blind.  they understood that my situation was unique and respected my
> > choices.  I lived in an apartment with my husband and Kiddo, while I went
> > through center training, instead of their typical apartments for the
> > students.
> >
> > The program is typically 6 to 9 months. I wasn't willing to give up that
> > much time out of my life if I could at all help it.  From the first day I
> > was at the center I told the staff that I intended to finish in three
> > months.  I asked what I needed to do to make that happen.  No delaying, no
> > messing, no taking it easy, I asked them to lay it all out, give me
> > homework...whatever it took, I meant to be done in three months.  I read
> > Braille on my lunch breaks, I practiced cane travel on weekends and
> > evenings
> > on my own.  I pushed myself hard.  I finished in three and a half months.
> >
> > As a result of my center training, I met people who helped me with
> > connecting to a temporary job with the Department of Labor.  I started
> > working as a Statistical Clerk directly after center training.  It was a
> > good job.  It had many of the things I love, surveys, statistics,
> > understanding groups of people and a nice paycheck.  However it also 
> > showed
> > me that I needed some things I hadn't previously realized.  I needed to
> > work
> > more directly with people.  I was stuck in a cubical all day and I hated
> > it.
> >
> > In the next years I worked at the same training center I had attended as a
> > student.  I went back to school, working toward a Masters degree in mental
> > health counseling, but gave it up because I became too emotionally
> > invested,
> > causing myself way too much stress.  I got divorced and became a single
> > Mom.
> >
> > I moved into the first place where I was truly on my own, no husband or
> > roommates.
> >
> > Fast forward a bit more, I moved into a very small town, got remarried,
> > started my own business, sold the business and now work for county
> > government.  I honestly have had very little idea how I was going to 
> > manage
> > all the details of each of these life events before I jumped in.  I had
> > basic skills I felt I could apply.  I had good connections with other 
> > blind
> > people, who could connect me with yet other blind people who had the 
> > skills
> > and techniques and were doing what I wanted to do.  The most valuable
> > skills
> > a blind person can possess are a willingness to explore, the ability to
> > problem solve and the ability to advocate for oneself.  Some good basic
> > training in alternative skills and a network of people who will support 
> > you
> > are also important.
> >
> > To answer your specific questions...
> > *How did you know the right skills or technologies to master in order to
> > know which fields to go into being blind? *
> >
> > My answer, I didn't.
> > I learned basic skills, like Braille, cane travel, JAWS and household
> > skills.  I practiced applying those basic skills in every situation I
> > could.
> >
> > I could use my cane to get to the grocery, the bank or the playground at
> > the
> > park.  The same basic techniques of two point touch, using landmarks,
> > listening to the environment etc., but each situation was a bit different.
> > I learned to problem solve on the fly.
> >
> > *How did you overcome or continue to
> > overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> > economy and other adverse situations? *
> >
> > My answer.  I'll try to give some examples that hopefully will help
> > illustrate how I have managed.
> > My current job as the Diversion Coordinator is grant funded.  this means 
> > it
> > is unattractive to many people because funding is not guaranteed from one
> > year to the next.  I wanted a job and was willing to deal with this
> > uncertainty.  Although funding isn't certain, I do feel like I have a
> > decent
> > amount of job security.  After all crime isn't going away anytime soon.
> > Each year I fill out the paperwork to get the grant money.  I attend the
> > training workshops on grant writing so I can get better.  I have applied
> > for
> > and gotten other grants to supplement or increase programs.  I started an
> > adult diversion program that is fee based.  Last year our grant was cut. 
> > I
> > lost about one quarter of my salary in that budget cut.  However because I
> > had started the fee based program my salary was able to stay the same.
> >
> > There are a lot of bills being introduced in the legislature this year 
> > that
> > could potentially dramatically change diversion programming and juvenile
> > justice in Nebraska.  I have absolutely no idea if I will have a job next
> > year, how different it will be or where funding will be coming from.  It
> > causes me some stress, but I feel like I do a good job and am respected at
> > work.  I am hopeful that between my own ingenuity and the support of my
> > supervisor we will be able to figure it out.
> >
> > In case I am wrong I have also started a web based business.  It will take
> > a
> > good year for it to be fully functional and making money.  If all goes 
> > well
> > it will be some supplemental income, if all goes badly, it will be
> > something
> > to fall back on.  I believe in diversifying one's financial portfolio.  I
> > have also written a book and will be putting that on the market shortly.
> > another way to earn a bit and to keep all the eggs out of that one basket.
> >
> > As far as technology...mostly I figure it out as I go.  Since I've started
> > my job the Crime Commission created an online way to document cases and to
> > our statistical reporting.  It had issues, so I contacted the folks in
> > charge and pressed hard for them to fix it so it would be accessible.
> > There
> > are laws about making stuff accessible for blind people.  It has taken 
> > four
> > years, but finally everything is working as it should.
> >
> > I just bought an iPad late last summer.  I have never had any training on
> > how to use it.  I know from other blind people that it would be accessible
> > out of the box.  The first few days were frustrating because it is so
> > different from anything I am used to, but I got the hang of it.  I have
> > learned how to use it by trial and error.  When I get stuck I ask the nice
> > folks on this list or some of the other blind people I know who use I
> > devices.  I now use the iPad daily for my wake up alarm, calendar, email,
> > internet, games, dictionary, and other life details.
> >
> > I guess this huge novel I've written sums up to: I start by figuring out
> > what I want to do, then I figure out how to do it.  I figure if I do
> > nothing, I will be exactly where I am now in a year.  If I try something, 
> > I
> > have the chance to better myself.  I might not make the right decision or
> > do
> > the right thing, but I will be guaranteed to learn something, even if what
> > I
> > learn is what doesn't work.
> > All my best,
> > Julie
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne
> > t
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gma
> > il.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cordially,
> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> cum laude Auburn University
> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> Peter Q Wolfe
> "Stand up for your rights"
> Bob Marley
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:29:49 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130325012621.01dd1568 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Hi, Peter,
> 
>          Are you one of those people contributing to people's
> reluctance to call us what we are, blind? What's in a name, anyway?
> What is the term you like to be called, just so I don't call you BLIND?
> Loving, Carfigure out what to call us?  At 06:41 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
> >Mike,
> >
> >
> >     What is for dinner? I just disagree with the labels of disabled
> >people or in fact the world disabled in the first place. What is
> >fundamentally broken by a blind person? I don't like handicapped,
> >disabled, consumer, client or any of it. I'd rather have participant
> >or customer would be okay as well just not consumer. It implies a
> >causality that and it reduces you to a number.
> >
> >
> >     First and foremost that we're all individuals right? I've had a
> >local taxi company in Auburn of my former college city call me "Blind
> >Pete". Can you imagine how enraged that they wouldn't change me for
> >two years just tcontiniously calling me "Blind Pete" even saved in
> >their contacts as that name too. Its like people attempt to turn you
> >into a object that dcan be treated less than a normal homo sapien.
> >Anyone else with similar experiences? This drives me insaine that way
> >don't usually ever gets to me but lately not as easy to do.
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Peter
> >
> >On 3/24/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> > > Peter:
> > >
> > > You're obsessing about the word "consumer" too much. In using that word,
> > > both rehab and most blind persons merely mean a designation of someone
> > > receiving services and, if we are honest, it's also a way to avoid the 
> > > word
> > > "client" which some of us hate. Frankly, I don't care what you call me 
> > > as
> > > long as you call me for dinner. (grin) Our state department of services 
> > > for
> > > the blind calls those whom it serves "customers".
> > >
> > > Mike Freeman
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> > > Wolfe
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:43 PM
> > > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> > >
> > >    Why are blind people considered consumers in much of
> > > rehabilitation? They aren't producers, therefore, they are deemed
> > > inferior even by fellow blind professions who work at such facilities.
> > > Sorry the whole conversation is besides the point just a reason to
> > > demean someone of another opinion. I'm an atheist-agnostic, so view
> > > things in another paradigm than that of yourself in that way. I'm
> > > looking at everything extremely logical to a fault that is to say
> > > deductive logic not inductive logic as much.
> > >
> > >
> > > sincerely,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > On 3/23/13, Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> > >> Diane,
> > >>
> > >> Absolutely, one hundred percent spot on!!!
> > >>
> > >> Mark Tardif
> > >> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Diane Graves
> > >> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:14 PM
> > >> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > >> Subject: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> > >>
> > >> Good Evening,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
> > >> "Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
> > >> having
> > >> deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I apologize 
> > >> in
> > >> advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject line on purpose,
> > >> just
> > >> in case there were others doing the same. However, tonight I am up late
> > >> baking and have read a number of the posts, and feel compelled to share
> > >> my
> > >> sentiments on a few things, or the facts as I see them.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one 
> > >> participant
> > > in
> > >> the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I hear him saying
> > > that
> > >> we in the federation need to "wake up and smell the coffee" and accept
> > >> the
> > >> fact that blindness does make us inferior. On the other hand, this same
> > >> individual is saying that we need to come together to fight
> > >> discrimination
> > >> against the blind. If you, yourself, believe that you are inferior, 
> > >> then
> > >> why
> > >> should society stop discriminating? In fact, how can they stop
> > >> discriminating? Why should employers hire us, and lessen that 70%
> > >> unemployment rate, if we aren't equal to our sighted counterparts?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
> > >> fits
> > >> all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like any 
> > >> more
> > >> than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There are
> > >> sighted
> > >> people who are excellent construction workers, who do not have the 
> > >> people
> > >> skills business prowess and any number of other skills necessary to be
> > >> the
> > >> CEO of a corporation.  That CEO  might not have the athletic prowess to
> > >> fight his way out of a cardboard box.  That doesn't make either one of
> > > them
> > >> inferior. They're just different.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> > > can't
> > >> perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are just as
> > >> varied in our abilities as the sighted.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> > > have
> > >> a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of 
> > >> blind
> > >> people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena, simply
> > >> because
> > >> they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact that I have 
> > >> trouble
> > > at
> > >> times, doesn't mean that they face the same drawbacks and that their
> > > skills
> > >> are not excellent and far above mine.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
> > >> to
> > >> any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
> > >> listen
> > >> to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I could
> > >> certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a book
> > > when
> > >> actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the superb 
> > >> mobility
> > >> skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I do. We are all
> > >> different.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
> > >> programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> > > their
> > >> money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start talking
> > >> about
> > >> programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that I can't do 
> > >> it,
> > >> doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I 
> > >> hear
> > >> this person  telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization, while
> > >> at
> > >> the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we are all
> > >> severely
> > >> limited.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
> > >> Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
> > >> those
> > >> who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation that 
> > >> you
> > >> could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to fight 
> > >> the
> > >> discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
> > >> believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard 
> > >> as
> > > it
> > >> relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
> > >> organization
> > >> at all.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> > > take
> > >> my dreams.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Diane Graves
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> blindtlk mailing list
> > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> blindtlk:
> > >>
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
> > > .com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----
> > >> No virus found in this message.
> > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > >> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6195 - Release Date: 
> > >> 03/21/13
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> blindtlk mailing list
> > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> blindtlk:
> > >>
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cordially,
> > > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > > cum laude Auburn University
> > > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> > > Peter Q Wolfe
> > > "Stand up for your rights"
> > > Bob Marley
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindtlk:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindtlk:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Cordially,
> >Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> >cum laude Auburn University
> >e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> >"If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> >Peter Q Wolfe
> >"Stand up for your rights"
> >Bob Marley
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:47:16 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20130325014238.01c498a0 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Hi, Diane,
> 
> My brain damage came about when I was struck by a light truck while
> living in Littleton, Colorado in the Fall of '03. My problems are
> relatively minimal, my brain doesn't work that fast and I am quite
> "normal" upon the plane of self expression, and I see irony
> everywhere, don't take myself too seriously.
> for today, Car
> 
> Hi Carly,
> 
> >I also have a schoolmate--he was a year behind me in high school-who has
> >some brain damage. I believe he had meningitis. He has trouble with
> >articulating and I believe with Braille too. But he has a wonderful sense 
> >of
> >humor and many other skills. He's a great person and is also a
> >federationist.
> >
> >Diane Graves
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
> >Mihalakis
> >Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:46 PM
> >To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] My 2 Cents
> >
> >Hi, Diane,
> >
> >What a great message!
> >
> >I too have a duel disability. Not only am I totally blind since age
> >18 months, in 2003, I acquired brain damage, a side effect of which is
> >tactal appraxia, the inability for finger  to communicate input to the
> >brain. So, essentially, I can not any longer perceive braille although
> >complete knowledge of the code including the many rules of writing, does
> >endure, held fast in long term memory which, ever miraculously, remains
> >untouched.
> >
> >I too considdered braille one of my lovers, and losing it was akin to 
> >losing
> >someone with whom you share such intimacies.
> >I'd love to talk with you, Diane so gimme a call: 408-209-3239   At
> >08:14 PM 3/23/2013, you wrote:
> > >Good Evening,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >For days I have been overwhelmed by the sizable discussion thread on
> > >"Adjustment to blindness training NFB Centers Or Not," and I admit to
> > >having deleted a good number of the messages without reading, so I
> > >apologize in advance if I missed some things. I changed the subject
> > >line on purpose, just in case there were others doing the same.
> > >However, tonight I am up late baking and have read a number of the
> > >posts, and feel compelled to share my sentiments on a few things, or the
> >facts as I see them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >First of all, I'll say, very respectfully, that there is one
> > >participant in the discussion who has me very confused. On one hand I
> > >hear him saying that we in the federation need to "wake up and smell
> > >the coffee" and accept the fact that blindness does make us inferior.
> > >On the other hand, this same individual is saying that we need to come
> > >together to fight discrimination against the blind. If you, yourself,
> > >believe that you are inferior, then why should society stop
> > >discriminating? In fact, how can they stop discriminating? Why should
> > >employers hire us, and lessen that 70% unemployment rate, if we aren't
> >equal to our sighted counterparts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Secondly, I'll just say that the notion that NFB believes that one size
> > >fits all is ludicrous. There are no two blind people that are a like
> > >any more than there are two sighted people who are exactly alike. There
> > >are sighted people who are excellent construction workers, who do not
> > >have the people skills business prowess and any number of other skills
> > >necessary to be the CEO of a corporation.  That CEO  might not have the
> > >athletic prowess to fight his way out of a cardboard box.  That doesn't
> > >make either one of them inferior. They're just different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The statement that all blind people need to accept the fact that they
> > >can't perform any number of given tasks, is, indeed, arrogant. We are
> > >just as varied in our abilities as the sighted.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I have a dual disability in that I am not only totally blind, but also
> > >have a significant hearing impairment. Therefore, there are a number of
> > >blind people who can run circles around me in the mobility arena,
> > >simply because they have the benefit of that good hearing. The fact
> > >that I have trouble at times, doesn't mean that they face the same
> > >drawbacks and that their skills are not excellent and far above mine.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On the other hand, I am an avid Braille reader, and much prefer Braille
> > >to any other media, whereas there are other blind people who prefer to
> > >listen to tapes and recorded books. My hearing is good enough that I
> > >could certainly use audiobooks if I chose too. I just get more out of a
> > >book when actively reading it myself. Some of those people with the
> > >superb mobility skills may not have the same prowess in Braille that I
> > >do. We are all different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Mike Freeman and Gary Wunder are both skilled in the area of computer
> > >programming, and, I suspect, could give sighted programmers a run for
> > >their money. I, on the other hand am strictly a computer user. Start
> > >talking about programming and you've lost me immediately. The fact that
> > >I can't do it, doesn't mean that they're not experts in it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't know if this is making sense or not, but again, on one hand I
> > >hear this person  telling us that we are a cookie cutter organization,
> > >while at the same time cutting his own cookies by telling us that we
> > >are all severely limited.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >In our organization we have liberals and we have conservatives. We have
> > >Christians and we have atheists. We have people who are athletes and
> > >those who are out of shape and proud of it. Lol We have any variation
> > >that you could think of. What unites us is our desire and our intent to
> > >fight the discriminatory barriers which face the blind.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Now I'm not going to tell you that I've never known a federationist who
> > >believed that there was only one way of doing things and one standard
> > >as it relates to blindness skills. But that isn't the mantra of the
> > >organization at all.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >If you want to "stop dreaming" then that is your choice. But you can't
> > >take my dreams.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Diane Graves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindtlk mailing list
> > >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >blindtlk:
> > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas
> > >t.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >blindtlk:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/princess.di2007%40gmai
> >l.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 05:44:33 -0400
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <8172ECE9B34E4E97B9DC9CA599557ACA at marion27df4b2a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
> 
> Peter,
>     I think that using the word "oddity" to describe the accomplishments of
> blind people who have unusual vocations demonstrates a stereotype that blind
> people are inherently relegated to specific occupations and those who break
> the stereotype are odd. You mentioned, for instance, "a medical doctor in
> the ACB" who, it seems, only accomplished this because he was sighted when
> he received his medical degree. How, then, do you explain the medical doctor
> in the NFB who has been blind all his life? Just because one believes a
> blind person cannot do some thing or another does not mean this belief is
> fact and, by doing so, that person is odd! This person, in my opinion, is a
> trailblazer and other blind people are encouraged to break the stereotypes
> that bind us to misconceptions of what is possible.
>     For a very long time, people believed that breaking the 4-minute mile
> mark was impossible and, though many came close, this belief kept people
> from accomplishing this task. Once the 4-minute mile barrier was broken,
> there came the realization that this was possible and people have broken
> that mark time and time again. The adage of my private practice is  Henry
> Ford's quotation"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're
> right!"
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> 
> 
> > Mike,
> >
> >
> >    Thanks for your e-mail even if it assumes things that I don't
> > believe in or have stated! Much of what you said that I covered in my
> > questions e-mail! Anyways, I do appreciate the sincere effort and have
> > heard of oddities of feats of some blind people that can have multiple
> > reasons not just one reason like having vision prior like a medical
> > doctor in ACB in Houston, Texas just a small example with former sight
> > or whatever.
> >
> >
> >    What type of computer programming do you do Mike or have done in
> > your past jobs? I'm curious cause this is something that is a hobby of
> > mine and something that I've become rusty in as well. My thing is that
> > I don't know nemeth code and was openly discouraged by the Principle
> > of American School for the Blind and was openly referred to get my GED
> > not my high school diploma because of that conversation that we had. I
> > also wonder with shifting software that has it become easier in your
> > jobs or harder to keep up especially with unfamilar technology
> > unaccessible to the blind? I wonder how flexible the employers whether
> > private or public have been in such scenarios?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Peter
> >
> > On 3/24/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
> >> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine
> >> work
> >> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years
> >> because
> >>
> >> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as
> >> popular
> >> or important than white collar jobs.
> >>
> >> Bryan Schulz
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> >> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Peter:
> >>>
> >>> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy and
> >>> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor
> >>> becomes
> >>> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again. I
> >>> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
> >>> might
> >>> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
> >>> about
> >>> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
> >>> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
> >>> worries
> >>> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
> >>>
> >>> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
> >>> asking
> >>> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within
> >>> the
> >>> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of us
> >>> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers and
> >>> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone else,
> >>> you
> >>> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
> >>> interests
> >>> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
> >>> whatever
> >>> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that
> >>> you
> >>> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might not
> >>> be
> >>> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the case
> >>> and
> >>> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a blind
> >>> man
> >>> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
> >>> electricians,
> >>> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
> >>> blind
> >>> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I met
> >>> a
> >>> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day job
> >>> but
> >>> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department employed
> >>> him
> >>> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the
> >>> misfortune
> >>>
> >>> of
> >>> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
> >>> water
> >>> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
> >>> couldn't
> >>> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his
> >>> hobby
> >>> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
> >>> since
> >>> that I didn't get the guy's name.
> >>>
> >>> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this
> >>> one
> >>> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind
> >>> person.
> >>>
> >>> Or
> >>> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while, Federation
> >>> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
> >>> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind person
> >>> and
> >>> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
> >>> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high
> >>> school
> >>> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a
> >>> while
> >>> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
> >>> that
> >>> query.
> >>>
> >>> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
> >>> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
> >>> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies to
> >>> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
> >>> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat here
> >>> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
> >>> recognize
> >>> this.
> >>>
> >>> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
> >>>
> >>> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of
> >>> the
> >>> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that
> >>> there
> >>>
> >>> is
> >>> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
> >>> misguided
> >>> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools and
> >>> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
> >>>
> >>> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
> >>> least
> >>> at first, but there it is.
> >>>
> >>> Mike Freeman
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> >>> Wolfe
> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>
> >>> cheryl,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
> >>> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
> >>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
> >>> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
> >>> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
> >>> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
> >>> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
> >>> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
> >>> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
> >>> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
> >>> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
> >>> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
> >>> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
> >>> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
> >>> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
> >>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> >>> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
> >>> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
> >>> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
> >>> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
> >>> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
> >>> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
> >>> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
> >>> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
> >>> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
> >>> the real economy.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Peter
> >>>
> >>> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Good morning all:
> >>>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college
> >>>> graduate
> >>> of
> >>>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
> >>>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help
> >>>> me
> >>>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the things
> >>>> I
> >>>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
> >>>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
> >>>> hearing
> >>>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also
> >>>> good
> >>>> knife skills.
> >>>> The business part always helps in any profession.
> >>>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an office/sales
> >>>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
> >>>> 2001
> >>> as
> >>>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
> >>> company
> >>>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due to
> >>>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
> >>>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained by
> >>>> the
> >>>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to be
> >>>> a
> >>>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked as
> >>>> a
> >>>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other testing
> >>>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
> >>> 2009,
> >>>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have
> >>>> been
> >>>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY as
> >>> well
> >>>> as by Governor Cuomo.
> >>>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do it.
> >>>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight for
> >>> all
> >>>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
> >>>> Cheryl
> >>>>
> >>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> >>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
> >>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> >>>>
> >>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
> >>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> >>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> >>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
> >>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
> >>>> Federation
> >>> of
> >>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
> >>>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
> >>> vacation
> >>>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
> >>>> must
> >>> be
> >>>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go
> >>>> to
> >>> the
> >>>> affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
> >>>> families
> >>>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
> >>>> affiliate
> >>>> as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
> >>>> through
> >>>> us.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
> >>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peter,
> >>>>>     There is a wealth of information available on various professions
> >>>>> blind
> >>>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
> >>>>> challenging
> >>>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have not
> >>> yet
> >>>>>
> >>>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional
> >>>>> musician
> >>>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
> >>>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
> >>>>> saddam
> >>>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas employment
> >>>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in
> >>>>> Psychology
> >>>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. I
> >>>>> am
> >>>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
> >>>>> though
> >>> I
> >>>>>
> >>>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
> >>>>> Director.
> >>>>>     When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
> >>> Health
> >>>>> &
> >>>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com)  I
> >>>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. I
> >>>>> share
> >>>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use all
> >>> your
> >>>>>
> >>>>> assets as you network with others!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Fraternally yours,
> >>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
> >>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
> >>>>> National Federation of the Blind
> >>>>> 813-626-2789
> >>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
> >>>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> >>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >    What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
> >>>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to no
> >>>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main form
> >>>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl livelyhood.
> >>>>> > I
> >>>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list
> >>>>> > are
> >>>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
> >>>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history
> >>>>> > and
> >>>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so much,
> >>>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself
> >>>>> > out
> >>>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Thank you,
> >>>>> > Peter
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
> >>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>> > for
> >>>>> > blindtlk:
> >>>>> >
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> blindtlk:
> >>>>>
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
> >>> l.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> blindtlk:
> >>>>
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cordially,
> >>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> >>> cum laude Auburn University
> >>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> >>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> >>> Peter Q Wolfe
> >>> "Stand up for your rights"
> >>> Bob Marley
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cordially,
> > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > cum laude Auburn University
> > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> > Peter Q Wolfe
> > "Stand up for your rights"
> > Bob Marley
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 06:25:16 -0400
> From: cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> Message-ID: <BLU169-W68A5FE5F7FB76F2C68C869A1D70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> So sorry I have not answered Peter's and other questions, being that I am 
> away for the Passover holiday at my mom's I am not on the computer that 
> much, I also will not be on much at all today because Passover begins after 
> sundown, whether you celebrate Passover or Easter or nothing. Happy 
> Holidays.
> Second, I agree with the statement that Marion Gwizdala has said about 
> sterotyping each other.
> We have many people in our organization including a former New York State 
> Governor, who was born blind, and is a member of the NFB since leaving 
> office, David Paterson.
> There has also been blind doctors in the past, not sure of that now, but we 
> honor at Dr. at our National Convention every year with Dr. Jacob Bolotin, 
> who was blind. The information is  below.
> Second, how did I learn these skills and what made me going into these 
> fields.
> Well, I had already gone to college right after high school again at that 
> time not being blind. I definitely think blind people should shoot for 
> higher  education or anyone for that matter, we do get assistance not only 
> in loans, but from our Vocation Rehabilitation Services.  NFB or not.
> My thing was that I get back to work, I just had to get trained on using the 
> right equipment, I taught myself some braille on the side from Hadley as 
> well, being that I am a diabetic (again, that is how I lost my vision in 
> 2001) and was on dialysis from 2002-2005, had kidney transplant, it will be 
> 8 years this year, that I have survived that. I have a lot of nerve damage 
> in my fingers that it hurts to read braille.
> I also have the background in working in the Medical Insurance field, 
> learned alot about my medical condition etc when I was sick, and not have 
> the doctors talk down to me.  I decided to go into the medical insurance 
> field, as a medical biller, I still do some work for a local doctor here in 
> Brentwood, where I live.
> But when I wound up leaving my job because of the way they were treating me, 
> and I went after my former employer legally because of it. I took a step 
> back and look and thought what do I want to do with the rest of my life, I 
> was only 41 years old at the time. What now I said.
> I listen to what is out there, I heard the way travel professionals spoke to 
> me when I wanted to go on vacations and them telling well, you cannot bring 
> your guide dog here or why do you want to go there because you are blind, oh 
> you cannot do anything at Walt Disney World, I am not insured if something 
> happens to you.
> Well being an NFB member I would turn around and give it back to them, but I 
> thought to myself, I love to travel, I know more about traveling then some 
> of these travel professionals, I also wanted to own my own business.
> I made the right move on that one. There are a few articles written about me 
> that I am very proud of, but I always mention the NFB in them, without my 
> NFB family with the love and support, who knows.
> Yes and a Rah Rah about the NFB, you are darn tooting I am, but am I going 
> to force anything on to someone that isn't nope.
> If you want to discuss this more off list anyone that is fine. But please 
> read below about Dr. Bolotin, who was blind.  If he did this in the early 
> part of the twentieth century. There is no reason why there cannot be them 
> today.
> Here is a little bit from the Braille Monitor, plus there is a book about 
> him the Blind Doctor.
> Dr. Jacob Bolotin was a blind physician who lived and practiced in Chicago 
> in the early part of the twentieth century. As chronicled in his biography, 
> The Blind Doctor by Rosalind Perlman, Bolotin fought ignorance and prejudice 
> to gain entrance to medical school and the medical profession. He became one 
> of the most respected physicians in Chicago during his career, which spanned 
> the period from 1912 until his death in 1924. He was particularly known for 
> his expertise in diseases of the heart and lungs. Bolotin used his many 
> public speaking engagements to advocate for the employment of the blind and 
> their full integration into society. Interested in young people in general 
> and blind youth in particular, Dr. Bolotin established the first Boy Scout 
> troop consisting entirely of blind boys and served as its leader.
> The National Federation of the Blind is once again pleased to announce our 
> acceptance of nominations for the Dr. Jacob Bolotin Awards. The cash awards 
> have been issued at the annual convention of the National Federation of the 
> Blind for two years running, and the winners and their acceptance are 
> described in the August-September issue of the Monitor each year. The 
> Bolotin Award is a way to recognize individuals and organizations working in 
> the blindness field that have made outstanding contributions toward 
> achieving the full integration of blind people into society on a basis of 
> equality. Named for a pioneering blind physician who practiced in the early 
> twentieth century, these awards are made possible through the generosity of 
> his late nephew and niece. Their bequest, the Alfred and Rosalind Perlman 
> Trust, will allow the National Federation of the Blind to provide direct 
> financial support to people and organizations that are improving the lives 
> of the blind throughout the United States.
> For more to read:
> History of Dr. Bolotin:
> https://nfb.org/history-bolotin
> 
> Dr. Bolotin Award:https://nfb.org/bolotin-who-should-apply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel 
> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria, 
> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012 
> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST - 
> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National Federation of 
> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the 
> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any vacation 
> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be 
> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the 
> affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families 
> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate 
> as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through 
> us.
> 
> 
> > From: blind411 at verizon.net
> > To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 05:44:33 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> > Peter,
> >     I think that using the word "oddity" to describe the accomplishments 
> > of
> > blind people who have unusual vocations demonstrates a stereotype that 
> > blind
> > people are inherently relegated to specific occupations and those who 
> > break
> > the stereotype are odd. You mentioned, for instance, "a medical doctor in
> > the ACB" who, it seems, only accomplished this because he was sighted when
> > he received his medical degree. How, then, do you explain the medical 
> > doctor
> > in the NFB who has been blind all his life? Just because one believes a
> > blind person cannot do some thing or another does not mean this belief is
> > fact and, by doing so, that person is odd! This person, in my opinion, is 
> > a
> > trailblazer and other blind people are encouraged to break the stereotypes
> > that bind us to misconceptions of what is possible.
> >     For a very long time, people believed that breaking the 4-minute mile
> > mark was impossible and, though many came close, this belief kept people
> > from accomplishing this task. Once the 4-minute mile barrier was broken,
> > there came the realization that this was possible and people have broken
> > that mark time and time again. The adage of my private practice is  Henry
> > Ford's quotation"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're
> > right!"
> >
> > Fraternally yours,
> > Marion Gwizdala
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> >
> >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > >
> > >    Thanks for your e-mail even if it assumes things that I don't
> > > believe in or have stated! Much of what you said that I covered in my
> > > questions e-mail! Anyways, I do appreciate the sincere effort and have
> > > heard of oddities of feats of some blind people that can have multiple
> > > reasons not just one reason like having vision prior like a medical
> > > doctor in ACB in Houston, Texas just a small example with former sight
> > > or whatever.
> > >
> > >
> > >    What type of computer programming do you do Mike or have done in
> > > your past jobs? I'm curious cause this is something that is a hobby of
> > > mine and something that I've become rusty in as well. My thing is that
> > > I don't know nemeth code and was openly discouraged by the Principle
> > > of American School for the Blind and was openly referred to get my GED
> > > not my high school diploma because of that conversation that we had. I
> > > also wonder with shifting software that has it become easier in your
> > > jobs or harder to keep up especially with unfamilar technology
> > > unaccessible to the blind? I wonder how flexible the employers whether
> > > private or public have been in such scenarios?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > On 3/24/13, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >> hi,
> > >>
> > >> sometimes you have to do your own research as well.
> > >> i found info about a whole plant of blind guys performing cnc machine
> > >> work
> > >> producing parts for Boeing but never heard of those guys in 20 years
> > >> because
> > >>
> > >> they aren't associated with the nfb or blue collar isn't deemed as
> > >> popular
> > >> or important than white collar jobs.
> > >>
> > >> Bryan Schulz
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> > >> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:31 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Peter:
> > >>>
> > >>> Before proceeding, I'll tell you that I *do* worry about the economy 
> > >>> and
> > >>> out-sourcing although that last trend is abating as foreign labor
> > >>> becomes
> > >>> more expensive and makes employment here in the U.S. attractive again. 
> > >>> I
> > >>> worry what will happen to people who heretofore had skilled jobs that
> > >>> might
> > >>> not have required a college degree but now do. And I worry especially
> > >>> about
> > >>> what will happen to unskilled and semi-skilled jobs in an economy that
> > >>> requires more and more high-tech skills. But these are generalized
> > >>> worries
> > >>> and apply to blind and sighted alike.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now then: it is the contention of Federationists in general that your
> > >>> asking
> > >>> the questions ass-backward. You ask: what can the blind do and within
> > >>> the
> > >>> jobs available by this answer, what might I be interested in. Most of 
> > >>> us
> > >>> contend -- and it was and is the model on which NFB training centers 
> > >>> and
> > >>> those who follow their precepts believe in -- that, like everyone 
> > >>> else,
> > >>> you
> > >>> should instead be asking: what do I want to do with my life? What
> > >>> interests
> > >>> me? And *then* you ask not whether but, rather, *how* you would do
> > >>> whatever
> > >>> it is as a blind person. The answer may, indeed, at the moment be that
> > >>> you
> > >>> will not be able to do exactly what you want. For example, you might 
> > >>> not
> > >>> be
> > >>> able to be a long-haul truck-driver. But this may not always be the 
> > >>> case
> > >>> and
> > >>> in the meantime, you *could* operate a trucking company (I knew a 
> > >>> blind
> > >>> man
> > >>> who did just that). Incidentally, I've known people who were
> > >>> electricians,
> > >>> software engineers or computer programmers who all were blind. I met a
> > >>> blind
> > >>> plumber once who did his own pipe soldering (how, I do not know). I 
> > >>> met
> > >>> a
> > >>> guy at a Federation convention who had a hum-drum civil service day 
> > >>> job
> > >>> but
> > >>> as a hobby was a SCUBA enthusiast. His local police department 
> > >>> employed
> > >>> him
> > >>> to search underwater for cars and bodies that had suffered the
> > >>> misfortune
> > >>>
> > >>> of
> > >>> landing in nearby rivers and lakes. It didn't matter to *him* that the
> > >>> water
> > >>> was mirky and he couldn't see six inches in front of his face -- he
> > >>> couldn't
> > >>> anyway! The kicker of all this was that he made more money with his
> > >>> hobby
> > >>> doing that than he did at his day job. I've been kicking myself ever
> > >>> since
> > >>> that I didn't get the guy's name.
> > >>>
> > >>> Once you've decided what interests you, you get on lists such as this
> > >>> one
> > >>> and ask how you could do whatever it is you want to do as a blind
> > >>> person.
> > >>>
> > >>> Or
> > >>> you could write to Dr. Maurer and ask. Every once-in-a-while, 
> > >>> Federation
> > >>> officers and rank-and-file members are asked to contact and/or mentor
> > >>> someone who wants to do something but doesn't know how as a blind 
> > >>> person
> > >>> and
> > >>> it is known that someone in the Federation does that very thing. The
> > >>> subjects of such inquiry can range from jobs to marching in a high
> > >>> school
> > >>> marching band (some blind folks from Ohio were in the Rose Parade a
> > >>> while
> > >>> back). Mrs. Maurer who had, herself, been in a marching band, answered
> > >>> that
> > >>> query.
> > >>>
> > >>> You could also get in contact with your state's agency rendering rehab
> > >>> and/or other services to the blind. These range from abominable to
> > >>> excellent. In any event, it is part of the mandate of these agencies 
> > >>> to
> > >>> provide to you or see to it that you are provided with the skills and
> > >>> knowledge to do what you wish -- and *you* are in the driver's seat 
> > >>> here
> > >>> although it may take some convincing of bureaucrats to get them to
> > >>> recognize
> > >>> this.
> > >>>
> > >>> The keys here are a can-do attitude and flexibility.
> > >>>
> > >>> Does this always work? Of course not. But then job-seeking efforts of
> > >>> the
> > >>> sighted don't work always, either. And there's no question but that
> > >>> there
> > >>>
> > >>> is
> > >>> prejudice against the blind (not out of hatred, mostly, but out of
> > >>> misguided
> > >>> kindness). But we in the Federation seek to equip you with the tools 
> > >>> and
> > >>> attitudes you'll need to overcome this prejudice.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't necessarily expect you to put much credence in this answer, at
> > >>> least
> > >>> at first, but there it is.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike Freeman
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> > >>> Wolfe
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:41 AM
> > >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> > >>>
> > >>> cheryl,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>    I have a question for just like me weren't born blind but became
> > >>> blind later in life. How did you know the right skills or technologies
> > >>> to master in order to know which fields to go into being blind? This
> > >>> is a question that I've puzzled on for a decade that i've found no
> > >>> satisfactory answer for in my circumstance. At one time, I wanted to
> > >>> be an electrician or software engineer or computer science cause of
> > >>> loving to fiddle with things like my father who was a electrical
> > >>> engineer for a utility company in my native Texas. However, my sights
> > >>> are much lower with experience and discouragement of many
> > >>> institutions, indvidiausl and even bios that I've read on NFB, AFB or
> > >>> talking to fellow blind individuals that I gave up on those goals.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>    I'd really appreciate any feedback to the above paragraphy even
> > >>> criticism of it. It bleeds into my second and last question that I've
> > >>> also been puzzled with too. Once you do decide your profession that we
> > >>> all have problems with the skills and tools in our collective
> > >>> professions at times right? How did you overcome or continue to
> > >>> overcome against the odds with the changing nature of technology, the
> > >>> economy and other adverrse situations? Yes, I know the general just
> > >>> seems so hard for us or impossible in whole industries being
> > >>> outsourced or done away in automation or whatever. I don't think its
> > >>> an easy nor exactly fair question but worth throwing out there cause
> > >>> its hard on everyone right now not just the blind. I try to keep this
> > >>> prospective as I pursue employment that isn't that comforting as your
> > >>> denied a job though. I don't mean any of my questions with any
> > >>> disrespect at all just think lots of you come across as idealist or
> > >>> naive on the state of the economy or of what blind people can do in
> > >>> the real economy.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Peter
> > >>>
> > >>> On 3/24/13, cheryl echevarria <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> Good morning all:
> > >>>> For someone who before losing her vision at 35, I was a college
> > >>>> graduate
> > >>> of
> > >>>> Culinary Arts and also Business.
> > >>>> I didn't pursue the Culinary Arts part of the Profession, but it help
> > >>>> me
> > >>>> learn the proper ways to cook and my family appreciates all the 
> > >>>> things
> > >>>> I
> > >>>> made then and now then and restaurant could plus it did help with my
> > >>>> cooking skills after losing my vision doing to smell touch taste,
> > >>>> hearing
> > >>>> when things boil, feeling the heat of the stove and steam, and also
> > >>>> good
> > >>>> knife skills.
> > >>>> The business part always helps in any profession.
> > >>>> For 20+ years even in my late teens, I always worked in an 
> > >>>> office/sales
> > >>>> enviroment to help with paying off school. Worked in the field until
> > >>>> 2001
> > >>> as
> > >>>> an Administrative Assistant to the owner/president of a small sales
> > >>> company
> > >>>> here on Long Island for a number of years, until I had to leave due 
> > >>>> to
> > >>>> medical issues that I eventually lost my vision.
> > >>>> After that I and when I was able to do so and had gotten re-trained 
> > >>>> by
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> VR Centers here I became the 1st Blind person here on Long Island to 
> > >>>> be
> > >>>> a
> > >>>> graduate of one of our prestigage medical billing schools. I worked 
> > >>>> as
> > >>>> a
> > >>>> medical biller for one of the large laboratory (Blood and other 
> > >>>> testing
> > >>>> companies here on Long Island), and then I started my own business in
> > >>> 2009,
> > >>>> I am a Travel Agent, and as you can read by my signature here, have
> > >>>> been
> > >>>> recognized by my state and Vocational Rehab organizations here in NY 
> > >>>> as
> > >>> well
> > >>>> as by Governor Cuomo.
> > >>>> We can be anything we want, it is a matter of learning on how to do 
> > >>>> it.
> > >>>> I also share what I dont in the travel industry for us all. I fight 
> > >>>> for
> > >>> all
> > >>>> of us, and educate those companies that don't.
> > >>>> Cheryl
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
> > >>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible 
> > >>>> Travel
> > >>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
> > >>>>
> > >>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations@echevarriatrave
> > >>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
> > >>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
> > >>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST -
> > >>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
> > >>>> Federation
> > >>> of
> > >>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
> > >>>> http://www.NFBNY.org after Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any
> > >>> vacation
> > >>>> package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation
> > >>>> must
> > >>> be
> > >>>> traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go
> > >>>> to
> > >>> the
> > >>>> affiliate.  Also is you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for
> > >>>> families
> > >>>> and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
> > >>>> affiliate
> > >>>> as well.  You do not need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book
> > >>>> through
> > >>>> us.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
> > >>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:11:56 -0400
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Peter,
> > >>>>>     There is a wealth of information available on various 
> > >>>>> professions
> > >>>>> blind
> > >>>>> people perform available through the NFB. As for me, I had a
> > >>>>> challenging
> > >>>>> time deciding what I wanted to be when I grew up and, since I have 
> > >>>>> not
> > >>> yet
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> grown up, am still deciding! (grin) I have been a professional
> > >>>>> musician
> > >>>>> since I was 16 years old. In my 20s I pursued a career in sales and
> > >>>>> eventually found myself recruiting people to work overseas. After
> > >>>>> saddam
> > >>>>> Hussein invaded Kuwait, the bottom fell out of the overseas 
> > >>>>> employment
> > >>>>> market, so I went back to school, got a Bachelor's degree in
> > >>>>> Psychology
> > >>>>> followed by a master of Science degree in Mental Health Counseling. 
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> am
> > >>>>> currently in private practice as a Life coach and Hypnotherapist,
> > >>>>> though
> > >>> I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> still perform regularly and serve Unity North Tampa as their Music
> > >>>>> Director.
> > >>>>>     When I do my public speaking, whether for the NFB or for kairos
> > >>> Health
> > >>>>> &
> > >>>>> Wellness Center (my private practice, see http://www.KairosHWC.com) 
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> generally employ music as a tool to engage and underscore my talks. 
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> share
> > >>>>> this with you to encourage you to develop several talents and use 
> > >>>>> all
> > >>> your
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> assets as you network with others!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Fraternally yours,
> > >>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
> > >>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
> > >>>>> National Federation of the Blind
> > >>>>> 813-626-2789
> > >>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
> > >>>>> HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <yogabare13 at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:57 PM
> > >>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Professions on list?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Dear fellow NFB-Talk participants,
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >    What professions or careers have you guys or gals done in your
> > >>>>> > lifestime? I'm gearing this question towards those with little to 
> > >>>>> > no
> > >>>>> > vision using either screen readers and or braille as their main 
> > >>>>> > form
> > >>>>> > of performing the tasks of their personal to professionl 
> > >>>>> > livelyhood.
> > >>>>> > I
> > >>>>> > believe that such lists like the Federal Muster or NFB's Jobs list
> > >>>>> > are
> > >>>>> > far too formal and don't facilitate legimate conversations on such
> > >>>>> > topics. Maybe tell about some of your challenges, academic history
> > >>>>> > and
> > >>>>> > advice for blind people to enter your fields. Thank you all so 
> > >>>>> > much,
> > >>>>> > so would like to gleam something in counseling or something myself
> > >>>>> > out
> > >>>>> > of this dialogue or abstract coping mechanism or something.
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > Thank you,
> > >>>>> > Peter
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
> > >>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>>>> > for
> > >>>>> > blindtlk:
> > >>>>> >
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> blindtlk mailing list
> > >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>> blindtlk:
> > >>>>>
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmai
> > >>> l.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> blindtlk mailing list
> > >>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>>> blindtlk:
> > >>>>
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Cordially,
> > >>> Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > >>> cum laude Auburn University
> > >>> e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > >>> "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for 
> > >>> anything"
> > >>> Peter Q Wolfe
> > >>> "Stand up for your rights"
> > >>> Bob Marley
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> blindtlk mailing list
> > >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> blindtlk:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> blindtlk mailing list
> > >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> blindtlk:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> blindtlk mailing list
> > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> blindtlk:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/yogabare13%40gmail.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Cordially,
> > > Peter Q Wolfe, BA
> > > cum laude Auburn University
> > > e-mail: yogabare13 at gmail.com
> > > "If you don't stand up for something your willing to fall for anything"
> > > Peter Q Wolfe
> > > "Stand up for your rights"
> > > Bob Marley
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindtlk:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > blindtlk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of blindtlk Digest, Vol 81, Issue 48
> **************************************** 
> 
> 
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