[Blindtlk] touching faces

Mon May 20 17:41:42 UTC 2013

Do people really ask that?  Come on society, we aren't all Helen Keller! 
That's like saying all men don't do housework.  My dad, grandpas and father 
in law do.  Why my husband doesn't feel the need to is beyond me.  It would 
be really nice since he's the sighted one.  Sigh.  One can only dream.

I'd smack anyone who tried to make me feel their face too. I guess they 
don't do it because I’m a partial.

Ericka

-----Original Message----- 
From: blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:00 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 22

Send blindtlk mailing list submissions to
blindtlk at nfbnet.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
blindtlk-owner at nfbnet.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of blindtlk digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: technology questions (Judy jones)
   2. Re: People How Asking How one Became Blind (Mike Freeman)
   3. Re: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17 (Bonnie Ainsworth)
   4. Re: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17 (Bonnie Ainsworth)
   5. Fwd: [nabs-l] FW: Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a
      Reality in NVDA (christopher nusbaum)
   6. Re: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17 (Bonnie Ainsworth)
   7. Re: Eye Pressing (Bonnie Ainsworth)
   8. Re: People How Asking How one Became Blind (Bonnie Ainsworth)
   9. Re: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17 (Sherry Gomes)
  10. Re: People How Asking How one Became Blind (Bonnie Ainsworth)
  11. Birding by ear The birdwatchers who see by listening - CBS
      News Video (Daniel Garcia)
  12. Re: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17 (Ray Foret Jr)
  13. Re: blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17 (Ray Foret Jr)
  14. BANA Accepts Two New Member Organizations and Approves
      Addition to Nemeth Code (David Andrews)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 12:41:17 -0600
From: "Judy jones" <jtj1 at cableone.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] technology questions
Message-ID: <D97018B03B424153B6631764C5A64C17 at Judy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

The U-2 does have scroll keys that will work as arrow keys, or each key with
the space-bar will work for up down left or right movements.  The good thing
about using the note taker as a braille display is that it can also store
data.

Judy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jewel" <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] technology questions

> Hi, I can't speak about the notetakers, having never used one. However, I
> can say that the Focus 40 Blue works really well with my iPhone 4S. I use
> it to take notes in my college classes, have notes available during a
> presentation, and navigate my iPhone in noisy settings. I actually prefer
> to use the Braille display with my phone more than with my laptop. oOh, I
> also use the Braille display to read books through the Read2Go app. And
> the Focus 40 is large enough to give a good number of cells, but not so
> large that it can't be easily transported. I carry my Braille display to
> school and its size is never a bother, an argument people make in favor of
> the Focus 14.
> I definitely would see if you can get your hands on both a Focus 40 and
> the notetaker you are considering just to try them out if you can. As the
> saying goes, to each their own. While I love my refreshable Braille
> display, you might find the notetaker a better choice for yourself.
> Best of luck,
> Jewel
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 18, 2013, at 12:57 PM, "Sarah" <sarahandfamily at live.com> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon. I am considering purchasing either a focus 40 blue or one
>> of the Braille Sense U2 models. Is there a product that works the best
>> with an iPhone? If I become certified as a technology trainer, would it
>> be better for me to get a notetaker such as the U2, or could I take notes
>> and write reports using the app AccessNote with my iPhone or an iPad?
>> Would a mac serve the same purpose as other I devices? If I buy the U2
>> with a Perkins style keyboard, how do you select peeker  items  similar
>> to using a combo box with Jaws since that model does not have arrow keys?
>> Does the qwerty keyboard on the U2 work the same way as an Apple
>> bluetooth keyboard with an iPhone? Thank you.
>>    Sarah
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jtj1%40cableone.net
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 16:52:12 -0700
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind
Message-ID: <010501ce54eb$e2f30c30$a8d92490$@panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Carly:

Perhaps there is a mutual misunderstanding. I do not *need* an organization
to map out a set of guiding principles to live by; I can do that for myself
as you say. However, I am a member of NFB for a number of reasons, one of
which is to proselytize its guiding principles as the majority of both blind
and sighted people still believe in a set of notions about blindness which I
consider out-of-date, counterproductive both to the blind individual and to
the quest of the blind for complete integration into society on a basis of
equality with the sighted and destructive of the dignity of the blind. As to
one of those principles -- that with training and opportunity, the average
blind person can do the average job on the average job site as well as can
his/her sighted colleagues -- please bear in mind that the qualifying
prepositional clause elements place considerable constraints on how
blindness is experienced by particular individuals in particular situations.
For example, if a blind person has limited mobility skills, blindness is
often far more than an inconvenience. Please also bear in mind that much of
the criticism of this concept carries with it an unstated proposition: that
all other human characteristics may be considered as one set and blindness,
being unique, must be considered as a separate characteristic. We of NFB
deny this. For example, I consider allergies far more inconvenient than I
ever thought blindness to be.

Is blindness a nullity? Of course not, if only because we are a minority in
a society structured for the sighted. But even so, blindness, like all human
characteristics, has pluses and minuses. That's NFB's more subtle position
-- one which is often misstated by those who would do us ill or who are
unwilling to take the time to grasp the subtleties of our collective view of
blindness. And something which might be an inconvenience or even a barrier
under some circumstances either doesn't matter or might be a plus under
others. To take an obvious example, being a short person makes it damned
inconvenient to play on a NBA team. But it helps a lot if one has to
negotiate a low lintel.

Another reason for being in NFB or, for that matter, ACB, is that a
collective voice is much louder politically than is a single voice, at least
most of the time.

Also, since I am a member of NFB's Board of Directors, I perforce am
expected to represent NFB's views. The reality is that I wouldn't have been
elected were my views not in accord with those of a majority of the
electorate.

As to your liberal views on touching and social interaction, I will keep my
foot out of my mouth by only saying that if one espouses as you do a
rebellion against societal taboos on touching, one of the inconveniences of
blindness is that a majority in society espouses those taboos. Put another
way, them's the breaks of the game.

Mike Freeman

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
Mihalakis
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:35 PM
To: gwunder at earthlink.net; Blind Talk Mailing List; 'Blind Talk Mailing
List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind

Hi, Mike,

Perhaps, I may have been speaking out of turn on this but, actually,
if you need an organization to guide you through the minefield of
blinkdom, then allow yourself to be guided. My blind partner and I
choose to go it alone.
And, as a former love interest I once had said, in part, hopefully,
we will all find our bright stars! 26 AM 5/18/2013, Gary Under wrote:
>Hi, Carly. Tell me more about what you mean. Perhaps this is something the
>Monitor ought to discuss.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
>Mihalakis
>Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:42 AM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind
>
>Hey, Mike,
>
>  From what I can tell, the Federation, as it is constituted
>today,  seems to be all high on  thundering what it sees as the will
>of blind folk. more often than not, such a thundering drounds out
>what blindness self sufficiency means to other points of views, and
>life experiences... To me, this smacks of too much hmogeny.
>for todayy, Car  06:56 PM 5/17/2013, Mike Freeman wrote:
> >You got it! However, we do offer this view with the provisos that if and
> >only if the blind person has good training and opportunity, his/her
> >blindness can be reduced to a damned nuisance.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
> >Mihalakis
> >Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 12:35 PM
> >To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind
> >
> >Good morning, don't organizations such as the Federation teach that
> >blindness is nothing more than an inconvenience, another personal
> >characteristic, like eye or hair color? Oughtn't then we also act as
such,
> >while speaking of the condition of our peepers, and how they came to be
as
> >such?Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> > >Ah, but, aren't we trying to educate the public that it's respectable
> > >to be blind?  Well, aren't we?  IF not, then you are right.  IF so,
> > >well, perhaps it's time to see just where or if the rubber truly meats
> > >the road.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the
> > >blind built-in!
> > >Sincerely,
> > >The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> > >Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
> > >
> > >On May 17, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I understand what you're saying. But would you advocate that
> > > > everyone should know this person's history? Blindness is an
> > > > uncomfortable topic for the average person in society to talk about;
> > > > suicide, or attempted suicide, even more so. Combine the two and you
> > > > might just send someone running away screaming. Sure, you could
> > > > claim that they're not worth your time, but the fact remains that
> > > > discretion is the key in such sensitive situations.
> > > > As I said, though, something like that is probably the exception
> > > to the rule.
> > > >
> > > > On 5/17/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> > > >> It came to my mind that syphilis would also be one of those
> > > >> less-than-savory blindness causes -- but that's rare now.
> > > >>
> > > >> Incidentally, Desiree, I also knew a person who tried to commit
> > > >> suicide; she shot herself, woke up realizing she hadn't done the
> > > >> job, shot herself
> > > >> *again* and woke up in the hospital realizing all she'd done was
> > > >> blind herself. She had been a brilliant mathematician and that
> > > >> brilliance was gone when she recovered but she was still very
> > > >> bright -- and blind. She went on to lead a normal life.
> > > >>
> > > >> Mike
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > > >> Desiree Oudinot
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:47 PM
> > > >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >> I think there are two angles to consider here. If, for example, you
> > > >> became blind after trying unsuccessfully to kill yourself (I knew
> > > >> someone like that, he shot himself in the head, survived, but was
> > > >> blinded), I can see how one might not want to talk about something
> > > >> like that with strangers. Even veterans might have this problem if
> > > >> their war injuries caused them to lose their sight. In other words,
> > > >> I can see both sides of this. I think you should only tell people
> > > >> what you're comfortable telling them. If how you became blind is
> > > >> something highly personal or traumatic, you shouldn't have to
> > > >> reveal that to everyone you meet. After all, we don't
> > > normally go around
> > > >> displaying our emotional baggage for all to see, that's considered
> > > >> by most to be undignified. But for someone like me, who was born
> > > >> blind, or for people who have lost their sight to things like
> > > >> glaucoma or what have you, there's no shame in talking about it.
> > > >>
> > > >> On 5/16/13, wogg le4 <woggle4 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> Hi, I often people ask what is a personal question when they don't
> > > >>> know one very well. Why do they feel justified in doing so?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have no difficulty in discussing the subject but don't always
> > > >>> think it appropriate in the particular context.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> this email was prompted by a girl who remarked that she had
> > > >>> wondered about this all the time she knew me.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I think she's a bit wierd anyway - it just got me thinking, as I'm
> > > >>> currently stuck on a train sitting beside this girl, struggling to
> > > >>> make conversation, which I'm finding particularly difficult - she
> > > >>> really is an annoying individual.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> blindtlk mailing list
> > > >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > >>> for
> > > >>> blindtlk:
> > > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/turtlepower1
> > > >>> 7%40
> > > >>> gmail.com
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> blindtlk mailing list
> > > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > >> for
> > > >> blindtlk:
> > > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix
> > > >> .com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> blindtlk mailing list
> > > >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > >> for
> > > >> blindtlk:
> > > >>
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40
> > > gmail.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for blindtlk:
> > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att
> > > > .net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindtlk mailing list
> > >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >blindtlk:
> > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcas
> > >t.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >blindtlk:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.ne
>t
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlink.n
e
>t
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for blindtlk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.ne
t

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:50:57 -0500
From: "Bonnie Ainsworth" <bainsworth65 at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
Message-ID: <4041F1A939EF4CC099A38BD3E15F6DFF at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

So many people still buy into that stereotype about face touching.  I
thought there would have been enough information out there to kill that one.
Makes me wonder what that still says about society and their misconceptions
of us?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17

I have had people ask me if I wanted to feel their face. I say to them that
feeling someone's face isn't my thing. I don't like pawing someone anyway!

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:53:10 -0500
From: "Bonnie Ainsworth" <bainsworth65 at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
Message-ID: <0B145E22D0BE446983E926105279C56B at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I wouldn't do that either.  It shows me the lack of respect for one's
boundaries and space.  It just feeds into that stereotype that we blind
people need to feel people's faces...NOT!  I certainly wouldn't want to be
pawed that way as Gloria said in an earlier message.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17

Maybe, but, surely, you're not going to tell me you go around groping people
do you?  I can't believe that.  I believe touching is very important yes:
but, the circumstances have to be right.

Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind
built-in!
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On May 17, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:

> Good morning, constantly barefooted Ray,
>
> I dunno about you and others, to me, a person's body means much more than
> does his face. Although having an idea of a person's face is often useful
> information, it by no means constitutes his attractiveness, or lack there
> of.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:54:22 -0400
From: christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,
mm-friends at acbradio.org, brandon <brandon1 at samobile.net>, Mayson Cabo
<mayson199514 at gmail.com>, wyattarose <wyattarose at gmail.com>
Subject: [Blindtlk] Fwd: [nabs-l] FW: Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint
Support a Reality in NVDA
Message-ID: <-2770631736414986886 at unknownmsgid>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

FYI; exciting news for NVDA users:

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

*From:* "Wasif, Zunaira" <Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org>
*Date:* May 20, 2013, 9:45:59 AM EDT
*To:* <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
*Subject:* *[nabs-l] FW: Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a Reality in
NVDA*
*Reply-To:* National Association of Blind Students mailing list <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org>

From: info_focb [mailto:info_focb at bellsouth.net <info_focb at bellsouth.net>]
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:31 AM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a Reality in NVDA

Blind Orgs Make PowerPoint Support a Reality in NVDA

   April 24, 2013 6:09 am

   Michael and James on stage with projecter screen showing "Gala
dinner WBU-ICEB 2012"

   Thanks to the support of several key blindness organisations,
soon blind and vision impaired people will be able to gain access to
Microsoft PowerPoint through NVDA, enabling them to both create and
present presentations along with their sighted peers. People have long
waited for PowerPoint support in NVDA, but it was at a gala dinner held
at the WBU-ICEVI 2012 General Assembly in Thailand where it all became
possible.

   Over US$40,000 was contributed that night to add support for
Microsoft PowerPoint to the NVDA screen reader. Funding was pledged from
blindness organisations all over the globe, including from Australia,
the U.s, Israel, Germany, Spain, Thailand and others.

   It was an extremely proud night for us to see the blindness
community and its organizations pull together and take ownership of
equitable access to technology.

   NVDA may have been created by NV Access, but it is most
certainly now owned by the blindness community at large.

   Support for Microsoft PowerPoint will be included in the next
release of NVDA (2013.1) which is due out very shortly.

   We would like to thank the following organisations for their
financial contribution to this work: National Organization of Spanish
blind people (ONCE), Vision

   Australia, National Federation of the Blind (U.S.), Christian
Foundation for the Blind (Thailand), Thailand Association of the Blind,
Overbrook school for the blind, The Society of Blind and Dyslexic
Students in Israel, and RNIB.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:54:10 -0500
From: "Bonnie Ainsworth" <bainsworth65 at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
Message-ID: <0E31F8C045B94E28A9150E238E55819F at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

...and see if you could buck 'em off while doing it.  Woo hoo!!  *GRIN*

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: <gwunder at earthlink.net>; "'Blind Talk Mailing List'"
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17

Gary:

Heck; just sit on 'em; let 'em judge your weight for themselves! Yee haw!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:32 AM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17

I wonder how many of the questions that are taboo really should be. Should I
be offended if someone asks my age? As a man the world would say no. If I
were a woman, I should be offended by the question and you should be
apologetic about asking. Why? If I'm asked how tall I am, I answer. If I'm
asked how much I weigh, I hesitate and wonder why they want to know and then
decide whether to tell them or fudge on the figure. Why is my weight less a
subject for question than my height? Perhaps because I feel guilty about one
and think I had no control over the other?

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:57:05 -0500
From: "Bonnie Ainsworth" <bainsworth65 at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Eye Pressing
Message-ID: <09FA8FB3F3A04F44BB45792B98432AC2 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I used to have that habit as well.  I don't know how long it's been since
I've done it, but my parents worked with me so I wouldn't do it.  I always
made the mistake of doing it in public.  I don't do it anymore.  It took
time...lots and lots of time.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kelby Carlson" <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:59 PM
Subject: [Blindtlk] Eye Pressing

Okay, everybody.  It's time for me to admit an embarrassing
confession, and to ask an equally embarrassing confession.  I
have struggled with the habit of eye pressing or poking since I
was just a baby, and it's still an issue to this day.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:06:19 -0500
From: "Bonnie Ainsworth" <bainsworth65 at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind
Message-ID: <23B7467258AE427E8F189A82C7D3707D at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I personally don't mind being asked at all.  Like many others, it gives me a
chance to educate those who ask.  Most people assume that because my
youngest sister and I are both blind that we have an eye disease and lost
our vision the same way.  Not true at all.  LOL!  *SMILE*

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind

My style would be to just let it all hang out. If a person is uncomfortable
with my answer, it's his problem; he shouldn't have asked if he wasn't
willing to deal with the result! But YMMV.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:06:44 -0600
From: "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
Message-ID: <003601ce5563$43d922b0$cb8b6810$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I read and write fan fiction in several genres. A couple years ago, I was
asked by a fan fic author to read and critique a story she'd written. She'd
won an award for it and was considering expanding it from what they call a
one-shot to a long multi-chapter story. The author was sighted with no
knowledge of blindness, and the story was about a blind character, mostly
about her feeling the guy's face when she met him. I asked her if she was
sure she really want my feedback, because if she did, I would be honest, and
she might not like it. She said she really wanted it, so I gave it to her. I
said it was well-written in general, but that people who are blind don't
usually go around feeling faces. I said I consider it invading a person's
personal space, and that I'd be likely to slap someone who did it to me,
except in intimate situations. well, naturally, she was offended and
bad-mouthed me for quite a while to some other authors in the same fan
fiction community. I didn't really care about that. those who knew me didn't
pay attention and if anyone did, that's their problem. But I did warn her
she wouldn't like my feedback. I don't know if she ever expanded the story
or not. LOL.

Sherry

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie
Ainsworth
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:51 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17

So many people still buy into that stereotype about face touching.  I
thought there would have been enough information out there to kill that one.

Makes me wonder what that still says about society and their misconceptions
of us?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17

I have had people ask me if I wanted to feel their face. I say to them that
feeling someone's face isn't my thing. I don't like pawing someone anyway!

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sherriola%40gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:08:08 -0500
From: "Bonnie Ainsworth" <bainsworth65 at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind
Message-ID: <E213BF4B24B047F48C981C24CD9D39AF at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hahahaha!  That's the same kind of answer I'd give, that I'm a brain damaged
child.  LOL!  I figured that I can get away with that kind of a humorous
answer because my vision centers in my brain are damaged from the
encephalitis I had as an infant.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] People How Asking How one Became Blind

Hi, David,

         I remember you from when I served as summer counselor at the
CCB, by the way.
Me, I'm blind and brain damaged.. That's it, I'm also a white chick.
NO pretense!

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:27:07 -0400
From: Daniel Garcia <dangarcia3 at hotmail.com>
To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindtlk] Birding by ear The birdwatchers who see by
listening - CBS News Video
Message-ID: <BAY172-DS372E768570AD2CE21FB4688AF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50146834n

Donna Posont is a member of the NFB of Michigan.

Daniel

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 10:40:05 -0500
From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
Message-ID: <815178A7-5D20-4B84-97A0-28292E47A55C at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Well, I just don't bother with faces myself, I have another way.

Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On May 20, 2013, at 8:50 AM, "Bonnie Ainsworth" 
<bainsworth65 at windstream.net> wrote:

> So many people still buy into that stereotype about face touching.  I
> thought there would have been enough information out there to kill that 
> one.
> Makes me wonder what that still says about society and their 
> misconceptions
> of us?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
>
>
> I have had people ask me if I wanted to feel their face. I say to them 
> that
> feeling someone's face isn't my thing. I don't like pawing someone anyway!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 10:42:12 -0500
From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
Message-ID: <AEED2C1B-CC7C-49AE-A3CE-CA581372E706 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Uh, Bonnie, I seem to recall saying that for touching, the circumstances 
have to be right.  By which I mean private and between those who know each 
other.  Frankly, I don't much buy the nonsense of so-called "personal 
space":  still and all, there must be a reasonable limit.

Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On May 20, 2013, at 8:53 AM, "Bonnie Ainsworth" 
<bainsworth65 at windstream.net> wrote:

> I wouldn't do that either.  It shows me the lack of respect for one's
> boundaries and space.  It just feeds into that stereotype that we blind
> people need to feel people's faces...NOT!  I certainly wouldn't want to be
> pawed that way as Gloria said in an earlier message.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
>
>
> Maybe, but, surely, you're not going to tell me you go around groping 
> people
> do you?  I can't believe that.  I believe touching is very important yes:
> but, the circumstances have to be right.
>
>
> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in!
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>
> On May 17, 2013, at 2:00 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Good morning, constantly barefooted Ray,
>>
>> I dunno about you and others, to me, a person's body means much more than
>> does his face. Although having an idea of a person's face is often useful
>> information, it by no means constitutes his attractiveness, or lack there
>> of.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:23:19 -0500
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindtlk] BANA Accepts Two New Member Organizations and
Approves Addition to Nemeth Code
Message-ID: <auto-000109977502 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed

Press Release
May 2013
For Immediate Release
---
CONTACT: Frances Mary D?Andrea, Chair
Braille Authority of North America
Phone: 412-521-5797
Email: <mailto:literacy2 at mindspring.com>literacy2 at mindspring.com
Recent Actions: BANA Accepts Two New Member Organizations and
Approves Addition to Nemeth Code
The Braille Authority of North America (BANA)
held its 2013 spring meeting April 11 ? 13 in
Washington, D.C. The National Library Service for
the Blind and Physically Handicapped (NLS), a
BANA member organization, hosted the meeting at
the Library of Congress. During its three-day
meeting, the BANA Board reviewed and acted on
semiannual reports from its eighteen committees,
considered committee recommendations, and
deliberated issues and challenges facing braille
users and producers. The UEB Task Force reported
on the development of a plan for the transition
to UEB in the United States as well as the
collaborative steps that have been taken to
initiate dialogue and planning among the various
braille communities that will be impacted.
Actions taken at the Board Meeting included the
following: The review and approval of a major
revision of the organization?s entire set of
bylaws and policies as recommended after intense
study by the BANA Bylaws Committee. Approval of
the applications for two new member
organizations: the Council of Schools for the
Blind (COSB) and the Hadley School for the Blind.
BANA welcomes both of these organizations and
looks forward to working with them. Approval of a
recommendation from BANA?s Braille Mathematics
Technical Committee that the following be added
to the Nemeth Code: ?Rule XIV, ?86c. When the
expression being modified is a single digit or a
letter, lower-case or capitalized, from any
alphabet, and in any type form, and when the
modifier is the horizontal bar directly under
such a single digit or letter, the digit or
letter, followed by the directly under symbol and
the bar, serves to express the modification. This
construction should be regarded as a contracted
form of expression and must be used whenever
applicable. If the modification includes a
superscript, subscript, or prime, the five-step
rule of a above must be followed. The five-step
rule may be used in conjunction with the
contracted form without fear of confusion.? On
Saturday morning, BANA hosted an Open Forum at
the Arlington Public Library, Arlington, VA. The
forum was quite well attended by DC area braille
readers, students, and teachers. Participants
also traveled from West Virginia and Maryland to
attend. BANA Board members and forum participants
engaged in a dynamic dialogue that centered on
the characteristics of UEB and the coming
transition. The tone of the forum was extremely
upbeat with numerous questions and comments about
the importance and future of braille; the
well-spoken students added their individual and
open-minded perspectives. For additional resource
information, visit <http://www.brailleauthority.org>www.brailleauthority.org
The Board of BANA consists of appointed
representatives from fifteen member organizations
of braille producers, transcribers, teachers, and consumers.
The mission of the Braille Authority of North
America is to assure literacy for tactile readers
through the standardization of braille and/or tactile graphics.
The purpose of BANA is to promote and to
facilitate the uses, teaching, and production of
braille. Pursuant to this purpose, BANA will
promulgate rules, make interpretations, and
render opinions pertaining to braille codes and
guidelines for the provisions of literary and
technical materials and related forms and formats
of embossed materials now in existence or to be
developed in the future for the use of blind
persons in North America. When appropriate, BANA
shall accomplish these activities in
international collaboration with countries using
English braille. In exercising its function and
authority, BANA shall consider the effects of its
decisions on other existing braille codes and
guidelines, forms and formats; ease of production
by various methods; and acceptability to readers.

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org

------------------------------

End of blindtlk Digest, Vol 83, Issue 22
**************************************** 