[Blindtlk] matters of belief: was: Re: Getting Lost
justin williams via blindtlk
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Tue May 13 22:34:03 UTC 2014
I don't wonder that; they wouldn't say the same to their sighted
counterparts.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
Silverman via blindtlk
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 6:25 PM
To: Carly Mihalakis; Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] matters of belief: was: Re: Getting Lost
Hi all,
I agree that this is a deep philosophical issue that goes beyond blindness.
I think the part specific to blindness is when somebody says something to us
like "you showing up at church is enough" when we are trying to gain more
responsibility or involvement in something.
The implication, I think, is that just showing up is good enough for us but
not for our sighted comrades, because the expectations for us are low enough
that just showing up is enough to exceed them. Or, when we just show up,
sighted people are so "inspired" that we are out in public and it's enough
to make their day. I wonder if people who say these things to us would
actualy say the same to a sighted person
Arielle
On 5/13/14, Carly Mihalakis via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Good morning, Ray and everyone,
>
> Seems you guys are fixating on these HUGE, gifts to humanity
> like "freeing" slaves or contributing other kinds of grandeur to our
> condition as people. My personal approach involves effecting the world
> upon a small, personal scale. For example, I have been known to
> spontaneously hug people or, to act as a pair of interested ears upon
> someone's needing to be "heard." I'm talking serve those of your
> brothers and sisters on the streets, or on the bus. Perhaps, then,
> amongst us blinks, we might agree on the fact of people not touching
> each other enough? I don't buy the benefits of a "hands-off"
> philosophy! I know from experience that people want, need, to be
> touched by other human animals! In my experience, it tends to engender
> a far deeper connection by personal contact.
> I will remind you that, our existence as blinks trying to live, often
> effects Ol'Sighty upon to get so "moved" when all we're doing is stuff
> he obviously, takes handily for granted. But to see a blink do the
> same thing? Often confounds him!
> So think about a smaller scale. I all but guarantee you willl find
> some fulfillment. 46 AM 5/13/2014, Ray Foret Jr via blindtlk wrote:
>>Well, Gary, I understand the point you are trying to make: and, I
>>would not venture to argue against it. I was merely saying that for
>>me, mere existance as a blind person is not enough for me. I mean,
>>look at me. Almost 49-years-old, and what have I got to show for all
>>that training and hilosophy I received? What real difference have I
>>made in the world or my life so far? What good is all that NFB
>>philosophy if I can't use it to help make things better either for my
>>family or myself or anybody else? Fair questions I think. And yet, I
>>cannot help but think that eventually, I time will come. When that
>>will be, I don't know. Yes, my time will come to make a difference
>>before I get called away from this mortal coil. I cannot believe that
>>God let me have the training I received at the Louisiana center for
>>the blind and all that NFB philosophy and belief for nothing but to
>>exist. No. The fact that I am still here means that I am not yet
>>done and I still have to do that for which I was sent here.
>>
>>
>>Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the
>>blind built-in!
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user!
>>
>>On May 13, 2014, at 7:20 AM, Gary Wunder via blindtlk
>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello, Ray. My comment is philosophical and has nothing whatsoever
>> > to do with blindness.
>> >
>> > You say that mere existence is not enough, and at one level I agree
>> > with you. On the other hand, I have known a good number of kind,
>> > generous, and thoughtful people who lament the fact that they have
>> > made no
>> contribution to
>> > the world. What they usually mean by this is that they will not be
>> > remembered in the same way that Abraham Lincoln or George
>> Washington will be
>> > remembered. If that is really the standard, most of us will never
>> > make it.
>> > We will be known for a time in the small ponds in which we swam,
>> > but how many of us make changes on the world stage that will get
>> > our names etched into stones that people see or books that people
>> > read?
>> >
>> > I grew up thinking that my life would only have meaning if I could
>> > do something heroic like John Wayne did in all of his movies. The
>> > heroic event has yet to come along, but I wonder if the magic of
>> > making a difference really is in getting up every day, doing the
>> > good that you can for other people, and bringing to the world what
>> > it is that God has given you to bring. One of those good and kind
>> > people who has spent considerable time wondering about the purpose
>> > of his life is my best friend. Is this meaningful, and, if I am
>> > someone's best friend, is this also meaningful?
>> > you know, I do not throw this out to be argumentative. I would just
>> > like others to think with me about what it means to have had a
>> > meaningful life and may be to extend the discussion beyond the
>> > perceptions that people have about blindness.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> > Ray Foret Jr
>> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:00 AM
>> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: [Blindtlk] matters of belief: was: Re: Getting Lost
>> >
>> > Well, being catholic myself, my faith informs me that God has a
>> > purpose for both blind and sighted folks. I do not believe that
>> > mere existance is enough of a life purpose for us. I once
>> > complained to a priest that I had felt that I had not yet fulfilled
>> > my purpose in life and had yet to do anything which really made a
>> > difference. Father said in reply to
>> me, "Well,
>> > you show up every weekend and that's an inspiration to us all.".
>> >
>> > Y'all, I'm sorry, but, for me, that's just not enough and
>> > certainly not what I was looking for. My belief is that my time
>> > will
>> eventially come:
>> > and, when it does, God help anybody in my way.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the
>> > blind built-in!
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5
>> > user!
>> >
>> > On May 2, 2014, at 8:43 AM, cheryl echevarria
>> > <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well when I get members of religious organizations that come to my
>> >> home on
>> > a daily bases, and no offense to our Brothers and Sisters that are
>> > reading this , and I don't shut my door on anyone who is offering
>> > me a kindly gesture or wants to talk about religion.
>> >> When they find out I am blind, they take me by the hand, and say
>> >> you poor
>> > thing, you must pray to god and be a faithful person, and god will
>> > restore your sight, don't you know the story of how "Jesus can make
>> > the blind see again". I in turn thank them, and I say I am a
>> > faithful person.
>> >> But, I also say that means also that Jesus makes the blind see, by
>> >> opening
>> > the eyes of the sighted to the faith as well. Blind people are
>> > very faithful depending on their religious background I am Jewish,
>> > and
>> my husband
>> > is Catholic.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Cheryl Echevarria, PresidentNational Federation of the Blind's
>> >> Travel and Tourism DivisionA proud division of the National
>> >> Federation of the
>> >> Blindwww.nfbtravel.org631-236-5138cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
>> >> Also Owner of Echevarria
>> >>
>> >
>> Travel631-456-5394reservations at echevarriatravel.comwww.echevarriatrav
>> el.comD
>> > isabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State The National
>> Federation of
>> > the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that
>> defines you or
>> > your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people,
>> > because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and
>> > our dreams.
>> > You
>> > can have the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>> >> Sign up for our e-newsletter by e-mailing us you first and last
>> >> name, and
>> > e-mail address to reservations at echevarriatravel.com, let us know
>> if you want
>> > just text or pictures in your e-mail.
>> >> Echevarria Travel has partnered with Braille Smith.
>> >> www.braillesmith.com for all her braille needs. Gail Smith is the
>> >> Secretary of the NFB of Alabama
>> >>
>> >>> From: blind411 at verizon.net
>> >>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 09:26:54 -0400
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Getting Lost
>> >>>
>> >>> Arielle,
>> >>> Whenever someone offers to pray for me because I am blind, I
>> > generally offer to pray for them because they are ignorant. I
>> know that this
>> > might offend them; however, their ignorance is just as offensive!
>> >>>
>> >>> Marion
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>> Arielle Silverman
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:02 PM
>> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Getting Lost
>> >>>
>> >>> When I was in college, I was studying outside when a random guy
>> >>> came up
>> > and asked directions to another building. My cane was on the
>> > ground, and he didn't realize I was blind until I was midway giving
>> > directions. Then he suddenly started offering me money and healing
>> > prayers, and it took me a while to get rid of him. I realized later
>> > that I should have asked him to pray for a good grade on my test
>> > instead of healing, but I digress.
>> > Anyway
>> > I'm not sure if he found the building he was looking for. It's a
>> > shame people would dismiss good, clear directions just because they
>> > come from a blind person.
>> >>>
>> >>> Arielle
>> >>>
>> >>> On 5/1/14, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7706 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>>> Quite funny. Reminds me of a story that Carle Jacobson told of
>> >>>> a waitress who told him that she was going to put the water in
>> >>>> the smaller glass and the seven-up in the larger so he could
>> >>>> tell the
>> >>>> difference: but, ironically, it was she who could not tell in
>> >>>> which glass the water was and in which the drink was.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for
>> >>>> the blind built-in!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sincerely,
>> >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone
>> >>>> 5 user!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On May 1, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>> <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Dear All,
>> >>>>> I perform a song called, "I'm Not Lost; I am Exploring". I
>> >>>>> generally introduce the song by sharing a story told once by Dr.
>> >>>>> Abraham Nemeth while he was waiting for a bus in a crowded city.
>> >>>>> Two
>> > guys approached Dr.
>> >>>>> Nemeth and asked for directions. They were given very precise
>> >>>>> turn-by-turn directions to their destination. As they turned to
>> >>>>> walk away, one guy said to the other, "We might want to ask
>> >>>>> someone
>> > else; that guy's blind!" Dr.
>> >>>>> Nemeth replied, "Yes! I am blind; but I'm not the one who is lost!"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Fraternally yours,
>> >>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> directions
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> >>>>> Of Julie J
>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:18 PM
>> >>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dogs
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yes, absolutely! Sighted folks get lost too. Coincidentally I
>> >>>>> just gave directions to a sighted lady trying to find my office
>> > building.
>> >>>>> She was close enough, I'd think she could see it from where she
>> >>>>> was, but I was able to get her here.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Getting lost is no big thing. The important part is having the
>> >>>>> skills and state of mind to get yourself unlost. I've been
>> >>>>> lost my fair share and it's no fun, but it isn't the end of the
>> >>>>> world wither.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And you can still get lost with a dog. I've done that too. For
>> >>>>> some
>> >>>>> odd reason sighted people think the dog knows where to go and
>> >>>>> you have a poorly trained dog if you get lost. Not true, the
>> >>>>> dog just follows directions. If I tell him to go the wrong
>> >>>>> way, he's going to
>> > do it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Julie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On May 1, 2014, at 1:52 PM, "Mark Tardif"
>> >>>>>> <markspark at roadrunner.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Anybody can get lost, even if you have excellent mobility. I
>> >>>>>> can tell you about some of my getting lost experiences, and I
>> >>>>>> think I have excellent mobility skills.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mark Tardif
>> >>>>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Olivares
>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:25 PM
>> >>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Guide Dogs
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm wondering who on this list has guide dogs? I'm currently
>> >>>>>> applying for one through Guide Dogs for the Blind, and am
>> >>>>>> curious how difficult it is generally to get into one of these
schools.
>> >>>>>> How good does your mobility need to be? I have always been
>> >>>>>> told I have good mobility, but today I got lost coming home
>> >>>>>> from somewhere
>> > and it discouraged me a bit.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Also which do you think is the best school? I've heard a lot
>> >>>>>> of good things about Guide Dogs for the Blind so decided to
>> >>>>>> apply there.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>> Brandon
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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