[Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

Mon Sep 8 17:10:23 UTC 2014

No, there would be nothing for the sound to bounce off of.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherri via blindtlk
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 7:52 AM
To: Cindy Ray; Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

I don't see how anyone can echolocate down-going curbs, objects, holes, etc. 
without a cane. Can anyone do that?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Ray via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
To: "Robin" <robin-melvin at comcast.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List" 
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

Well, I have used finger snapping, clicking of the tongue sometimes, the 
cane, whatever. But I can’t see how you can use this echo location without a 
cane or something. I don’t think you can travel as quickly, you are less 
likely to know until too late that you are stepping off of an edged 
sidewalk, and if there is construction or lawn mowers going echo location 
does not work. I used to not use a cane at school, and they used to edge the 
sidewalks.

Cindy

On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Robin via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Regarding the instruction of EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar), 2 of the 
> people I hear who train people in its use are Justin Louchart and Daniel 
> Kish.
>
> Daniel Kish is probably the individual, who demonstrated cycling using 
> EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar).
>
> I've heard he has established a NonProfit Organization in Southern 
> California (World Access for the Blind), and frequently travels the world 
> teaching its use. He is also the individual, who taught Ben Underwood, who 
> Passed Away.
>
> What is more "socially acceptable" a White Cane or a GuideDog, a White 
> Cane or "Tongue Clicking, Tongue Clicking or a GuideDog? I say whatever 
> works although it would greatly enhance an individual's repitoire if 
> he/she possessed at least 2 of the 3 Mobility skills to rely on. This is 
> just my personal opinion. I don't really care if it is "socially 
> acceptable" or not
>
> At 04:01 AM 9/8/2014, you wrote:
>> They make clickers that are mechanical.   they aren't electronic, just a 
>> piece of metal bent in such a way that when you push it, it makes a click 
>> sound.  they cost about $1 and can be found in any pet store.  they were 
>> first used in dolphin training, but are now used in all sorts of animal 
>> training. I'm not sure that it's much more socially acceptable to go 
>> around clicking one of these things than it would be to do the tongue 
>> click though. Probably a bit, but I still think you'd look odd unless you 
>> had a dog along that you were training. I'd also like to add a note about 
>> the concept of socially acceptable.   the cane is considered socially 
>> acceptable because we, blind folks, have made it so.  If, instead many 
>> moons ago, ancient blind folks decided that the click noise was the way 
>> to go and used that and educated sighted folks on that, then the clicks 
>> would be what is socially acceptable.  It's all in the history and the 
>> perception.  There is nothing more or less weird about the clicking. 
>> It's just not what we are used to.  If all blind people everywhere 
>> decided to use exclusively echolocation and use clicking, it would soon 
>> become the norm and socially acceptable. Just sayin' Julie -----Original 
>> Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via blindtlk Sent: Sunday, September 
>> 07, 2014 9:25 PM To: Christine Olivares via blindtlk Subject: Re: 
>> [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works Part of the challenge is that one 
>> feels a little conspicuous clicking sometimes as that is sometimes 
>> associated with other developmental disabilities.  It is too bad in a way 
>> because it is effective.  I have found that I can get some of the same 
>> information, though, from the tapping of my cane, snapping my fingers, 
>> and from rattling keys.  I have sometimes thought that some sort of 
>> electronic sound source could be developed that could be even more 
>> effective and also more socially acceptable. Best regards, Steve Jacobson 
>> On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:23:10 -0400, Christine Olivares via blindtlk wrote: 
>>  >Hello all, >I have a totally blind friend who uses echo location but he 
>> does not click. >He will use his foot and stamp on the ground or floor. 
>> On the other hand, >my husband is also blind and he doesnâ€™t need to 
>> click with his tongue. He can â€œhearâ€ buildings or objects approach, 
>> which would prevent him from running into them. In college, we had to 
>> cross a driveway. when I was with him, I would ask, â€œIs there a car 
>> today?â€ Nine times out of ten he could tell if a car was blocking the 
>> path, which I could see so I could verify it. >I think different people 
>> can access this echo location different ways, and >maybe it is just 
>> easier for some people to click. I canâ€™t judge it as I donâ€™t >have 
>> this skill. >God bless, >Christine >On Sep 7, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Larry 
>> Wayland via blindtlk ><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> Yes, object 
>> perception works, but I don't think it works to the point >> some >> of 
>> these people who clame to use echoLocation does. I agree the tapping >> 
>> of >> the cane should work just as well and be much more acceptable. >> 
>>  >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindtlk 
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Judy >> Jones >> via 
>> blindtlk >> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 6:26 PM >> To: Chris 
>> Nusbaum; Blind Talk Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: 
>> How it Works >> >> To my mind, the clicking required is not socially 
>> acceptable.  I'm a firm >> believer in object perception, though, and 
>> that it works.  Plus the fact, >> the tapping of a cane can substitute 
>> for clicking.  Just my opinion. >> >> Judy >> >> >> -----Original 
>> Message----- >> From: Chris Nusbaum via blindtlk >> Sent: Sunday, 
>> September 7, 2014 3:49 PM >> To: 'Larry Wayland' ; 'Blind Talk Mailing 
>> List' >> Subject: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works >> >> I don't get 
>> it, but I know people who have attained quite a bit of skill >> in >> 
>> echolocation. According to Dan Kish, a personal friend and one of the >> 
>> people >> who pioneered the concept, it's a learned skill and not a 
>> natural talent. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindtlk 
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry >> Wayland via 
>> blindtlk >> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 11:22 PM >> To: 'Bryan 
>> Schulz'; 'Blind Talk Mailing List' >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Making a 
>> Difference, (Cont.): Bringing the right >> attitude out >> >> Some of the 
>> clames I have heard about EchoLocation is, in my opinion, way >> above 
>> the capability of the human ear.  This is probably going to be >> another 
>>  >> one of these false things we have to explain all the time along with 
>> not >> having super hearing, identifying dollar bills, and colors  by 
>> touch. >> Larry >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindtlk 
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan >> Schulz via 
>> blindtlk >> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 12:34 PM >> To: Carly 
>> Mihalakis; Blind Talk Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Making a 
>> Difference, (Cont.): Bringing the right >> attitude out >> >> hi, >> >> 
>> when sighted people didn't understand why you were clucking, did anyone 
>>  >> ask >> if you lay eggs? >> even i have learned that it is better for 
>> someone to see you with a cane >> instead of looking like a drunk! >> 
>> Bryan Schulz >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carly 
>> Mihalakis via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >> To: "Christine Olivares" 
>> <rafael4490 at gmail.com>; "Blind Talk Mailing >> List" >> 
>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "Marsha" <marcatony at yahoo.com>; "Blind Talk >> 
>> Mailing >> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >> Cc: "Eric Calhoun" 
>> <eric at pmpmail.com> >> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 9:06 AM >> 
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Making a Difference, (Cont.): Bringing the right 
>>  >> attitude out >> >> >>> Good morning, Christine, >>> >>>        In 
>> elementary school although I am a total, I, too, never used >>> a cane 
>> finding that my orientation of the schools lay-out, coupled >>> with 
>> echolocation was enough to get me around. I bet you also have >>> pretty 
>> refined echolocation? >>> for today, Car >>> impairment and don't always 
>> use a cane. As I have mentioned, I am from >>> a small town born and 
>> raised. This means I am very familiar with my >>> surroundings so I don't 
>> always use my cane. Judging someone because >>> he/she is blind is 
>> ridiculous. >>> >>>> I think this whole thing of asking someone to move 
>> is awful unless >>>> it's an emergency. I think we should never judge 
>> someone. How would >>>> you like if someone didn't see your cane and 
>> said, "Oh, you're not >>>> blind." Eric, would you like that? I don't 
>> think you would appreciate >>>> being judged, assume this woman was 
>> blind. Not only that, but she is a >> woman for Gosh sakes. >>>> Where is 
>> the respect men should give women? Chivalry has gone right >>>> out the 
>> window, but that's a discussion for another day. >>>> >>>> God bless, 
>>  >>>> Christine >>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Marsha via blindtlk 
>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> HI >>>>> Since when does not 
>> having a cane mean that you aren't >>>> blind.  Very very judgmental. 
>>  >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> 
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