[Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

Judy Jones jtj1 at cableone.net
Fri Sep 12 02:09:12 UTC 2014 

You know, I never thought about introducing our kids to object perception, 
what a great thing!  But, like you said, they automatically pick up on how 
we do things and don't give a second thought.

One game my girls liked to play in middle school and high school was to 
invite friends home, not telling them about their blind parents.  We got 
reactions across the whole spectrum, and later, the girls used to tell us 
about their reactions, a very interesting people study.

After my daughters and friends were grown, one of them told me in 
conversation that when she first met us as a young child, she used to watch 
to see if we would bump into walls and things, and when we didn't, she got 
bored with the whole thing.  That really gave me a chuckle, hearing about it 
years later.

Judy


-----Original Message----- 
From: Julie J. via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:03 PM
To: Mike Freeman ; Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

Yes, I agree with Mike.  My son, who is sighted, can use echolocation quite
effectively.  Perhaps because he observed me using the skill from a young
age, or he isn't caught up in thinking blind people have special powers,  or
he wanted to amaze his friends or something.  I don't know.  It does amaze
his friends though.

He wanted to know how I moved around the house with no cane, so I explained.
He was little and I made a game of it.  First I told him to close his eyes
and spun him around and asked him to point to the TV, an easy thing to do.
Then I spun him again and had him point to the dining room, which is open
and just off the living room, a bit harder, but still fairly easy.  Then I
asked him to reach out and touch a book as soon as he could hear me moving
it closer to his head.  I made sure there was some ambient noise so it would
be easy.  then I had him walk down the hall listening for the walls.  the
whole teaching him the skill took probably 20-30 minutes.  It's stuck with
him ever since...probably ten years now.

Julie


Julie


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:39 AM
To: 'justin williams' ; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

I think everyone has the skill. But one of the *disadvantages* of sight is
that so much information is constantly bombarding sighted people that they
tend to tune a lot of other stimuli out. Moreover, there is more than one
thing going on often -- at least in instances such as the garage door you
speak of below: as one approaches a wall or other substantial obstruction,
one encounters *very* slight changes in air pressure -- changes that your
ears have no trouble detecting even when there is no sound to give you an
impression of an area's ambiance. Your friend probably didn't know to pay
attention to these slight pressure differences.

Like a great deal else involved with blindness, most people have the skills
they impute to us -- they just don't use them because they don't have to.

Mike Freeman


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of justin
williams via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:06 AM
To: gwunder at earthlink.net; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

Lol; that's funny.  Here is the thing.  I don't understand who others don't
have it either; sighted people don't seem t usually be able t hear it.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 12:00 PM
To: 'Steve Jacobson'; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

When I have talked with Daniel Kish with the thought of doing an article for
the Braille Monitor, I read some of their material. I don't believe that
they suggest this is a substitute for the cane but in enhancement of what
one can perceive. Whether we like the idea of making clicking noises or not,
I bet we have all used finger snaps, toe taps, or some other noise in the
environment. I grew up thinking that everyone had echolocation. I didn't
know that that was its name, but people were so amazed that I had it that
one day I wanted to show my aunt that she too could do it. I took her to our
garage door, made her back up about ten steps, convinced her to close her
eyes, and confidently said that if she only walked forward until she heard
the reflected noise, she would be all right. The only noise that both of us
heard was her hitting the door. I was surprised. She was angry. So, while
the skill seems to have come naturally to me, I am prepared to say that not
everyone has it.


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jacobson via blindtlk
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 2:43 PM
To: Larry Wayland via blindtlk
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

I could detect poles when I was younger and still can sometimes as well as
objects sitting in the middle of a sidewalk. I'm not advocating not using a
cane, though, just trying to contribute to the understanding of the
technique.  There may be people who can detect steps down but I can't say I
was ever good at it.  Although there is nothing for sound to bounce off of,
one can here the constant surface of a sidewalk or floor.  Therefore, if one
can detect the absence of that surface in front of them, one might deduce
that there was a step down.  One might be able to tell that the surface is
lower in front of them thus indicating a step down.  It is hard to explain,
but you hear more than you would think, but one's ability to hear such
things can be affected by the noise that is around them, so it does not
replace a cane in my opinion.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:10:23 -0500, Larry Wayland via blindtlk wrote:

>No, there would be nothing for the sound to bounce off of.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherri
>via blindtlk
>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 7:52 AM
>To: Cindy Ray; Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works

>I don't see how anyone can echolocate down-going curbs, objects, holes,
etc.
>without a cane. Can anyone do that?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cindy Ray via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>To: "Robin" <robin-melvin at comcast.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List"
><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:21 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works


>Well, I have used finger snapping, clicking of the tongue sometimes,
>the cane, whatever. But I canâ¬"t see how you can use this echo
>location
without a
>cane or something. I donâ¬"t think you can travel as quickly, you are
>less likely to know until too late that you are stepping off of an
>edged sidewalk, and if there is construction or lawn mowers going echo
>location does not work. I used to not use a cane at school, and they
>used to edge
the
>sidewalks.

>Cindy

>On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:15 AM, Robin via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

>> Regarding the instruction of EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar), 2 of
>> the people I hear who train people in its use are Justin Louchart and
>> Daniel Kish.
>>
>> Daniel Kish is probably the individual, who demonstrated cycling
>> using EchoLocation (i.e., FlashSonar).
>>
>> I've heard he has established a NonProfit Organization in Southern
>> California (World Access for the Blind), and frequently travels the
>> world

>> teaching its use. He is also the individual, who taught Ben
>> Underwood,
who
>> Passed Away.
>>
>> What is more "socially acceptable" a White Cane or a GuideDog, a
>> White Cane or "Tongue Clicking, Tongue Clicking or a GuideDog? I say
>> whatever works although it would greatly enhance an individual's
>> repitoire if he/she possessed at least 2 of the 3 Mobility skills to
>> rely on. This is just my personal opinion. I don't really care if it
>> is "socially acceptable" or not
>>
>> At 04:01 AM 9/8/2014, you wrote:
>>> They make clickers that are mechanical.   they aren't electronic, just a

>>> piece of metal bent in such a way that when you push it, it makes a
click
>>> sound.  they cost about $1 and can be found in any pet store.  they
>>> were

>>> first used in dolphin training, but are now used in all sorts of
>>> animal training. I'm not sure that it's much more socially
>>> acceptable to go around clicking one of these things than it would
>>> be to do the tongue click though. Probably a bit, but I still think
>>> you'd look odd unless
you
>>> had a dog along that you were training. I'd also like to add a note
about
>>> the concept of socially acceptable.   the cane is considered socially
>>> acceptable because we, blind folks, have made it so.  If, instead
>>> many moons ago, ancient blind folks decided that the click noise was
>>> the way to go and used that and educated sighted folks on that, then
>>> the clicks would be what is socially acceptable.  It's all in the
>>> history and the perception.  There is nothing more or less weird
>>> about
the clicking.
>>> It's just not what we are used to.  If all blind people everywhere
>>> decided to use exclusively echolocation and use clicking, it would
>>> soon become the norm and socially acceptable. Just sayin' Julie
>>> -----Original

>>> Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via blindtlk Sent: Sunday,
>>> September 07, 2014 9:25 PM To: Christine Olivares via blindtlk Subject:
Re:
>>> [Blindtlk] Echolocation: How it Works Part of the challenge is that
>>> one feels a little conspicuous clicking sometimes as that is
>>> sometimes associated with other developmental disabilities.  It is
>>> too bad in a
way
>>> because it is effective.  I have found that I can get some of the
>>> same information, though, from the tapping of my cane, snapping my
>>> fingers, and from rattling keys.  I have sometimes thought that some
>>> sort of electronic sound source could be developed that could be
>>> even more effective and also more socially acceptable. Best regards,
>>> Steve
Jacobson
>>> On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:23:10 -0400, Christine Olivares via blindtlk
wrote:
>>>  >Hello all, >I have a totally blind friend who uses echo location
>>> but
he
>>> does not click. >He will use his foot and stamp on the ground or floor.
>>> On the other hand, >my husband is also blind and he doesnââ> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> HI >>>>> Since when does not
>>> having a cane mean that you aren't >>>> blind.  Very very judgmental.
>>>  >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindtlk
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