[Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...

Tue Aug 4 19:25:28 UTC 2015

James,

The number of blind people who meet the legal definition of blindness is something like 1% of 1% of the population of the US. Even if half of those kids were taught Braille that would not be a sufficiently large market share for publishing companies to produce hardcopy braille. A more realistic solution as has been already pointed out is the increasing use and lower-cost which is continually dropping of braille displays. It is technology paradoxically that will save braille.

I didn't learn braille until I was 18 because I didn't want to learn it as a little kid, and my parents decided not to force me. Eventually necessity force me to do so. For me Braille is only used for things that I cannot accomplish in another way like learning foreign languages, or reading the buttons on an elevator. Aside from the occasional foreign-language text the only thing longer than a sentence that I read in Brielle is the menu at Applebee's which happens once or twice a year. It is my hope that technology will give me greater access to braille, and make it more meaningful in my life.

Best,
Paul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 4, 2015, at 11:35 AM, James Kelm via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Dear Judy and all...
> 
>   If there is enough room, may I climb on your soap box with you?  LOLL
> 
>   This is a dream of mine, and although I understand that it is unlikely to ever become reality, I still can dream.  I would like to see blind consumers, as well as educators and other professionals who work with the blind community to begin applying polite and respectful pressure on the mainstream publishers to offer their publications in Braille.  With the technology that we have available today, this would not offer publishers any great challenge.  I realize that they would never offer their entire catalog in Braille, but I think that a large number of the best seller list, common educational material, etc. could be offered.  This would have several advantages.  Firstly, this would eventually bring the cost of commercially available Braille down.  Right now Braille books are extremely expensive, but if the market was larger, ultimately the price would come down via competition.
> 
>   Secondly, this would offer publishers an entirely new market to exploit. A large part of the public is now unavailable for the most part to mainstream publishers, but if they offered Braille publications, then suddenly they would have the blind community as a new source of money through sales.  This would also offer meaningful employment opportunity for the blind, because it would stand to reason that blind folks would be a natural choice for the development and production of commercially produced Braille.
> 
>   And lastly, the more Braille that is available, affordable, and accessible, the more that Braille would/could become a regular part of every day living for the blind.
> 
>   I agree with you Judy, in that I believe that all too often, we accept things for the blind community that the general public would never tolerate for the sighted community.  Just imagine the response that would occur if the school system suddenly announced that they were going to stop teaching sighted children to read, because they did not feel that it was an important tool for kids any longer.  Think of the response if doctors and pharmacists announced that they would no longer offer information concerning med instruction, medical procedures, or other important health information in any printed format?  What would be the reaction if businesses informed their customers that they would no longer offer price tags, restaurant menus, etc.?  People I think would be outraged, but yet this is what the blind community faces with regard to Braille, and everyone including many of us, simply sits back and considers it to be acceptable.  I think that this is really sad.  The information that is presented to the American voter is available in countless different languages, and there is much recent debate over how the voting and registration process can be made more easily available and accessible.  But I have personally never heard any of the "movers and shakers" include offering this material in Braille as part of their plans.
> 
>   OK, I'll get off of the soap box now.  Besides, I don't like heights! LOLL
> 
> James
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Judy Jones via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 12:17 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Judy Jones
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
> 
> I think that all professionals in the field and anyone should stop using the phrase "reading braille," as, to my mind, "reading" is "reading," whether print or braille, the medium does not make the difference.
> 
> Would we put up with our sighted kids having mediocre instruction in reading?  Are parents telling their blind kids in elementary schools to read at least 20 minutes a day?
> 
> Audio intake is fine, I enjoy audio books myself, but intake from audio is not reading.  The literacy statement below is very true.  One is illiterate if they have not taken the time to master braille.  I am not saying that one can't learn from audio or that one is inferior in any way.  But audio intake uses different skills sets not used in print or braille reading. Furthermore, one misses realtime formatting, spelling, and grammar.
> 
> How many e-mails have you all read from time to time that are comprised of run-on sentences and occasional misspelled words?  Not totally positive, but guess that those persons are dealing with Siri-type programs that are imperfect, and unless they know to go back and proof what has been dictated, an imperfect e-mail has been sent out.  But the lack of emphasis on braille is going to harm our children vocationally and affect the rest of their lives if someone does not come into the parents lives at the child's early ages and start dealing with those tough questions.  Sorry if I got on my soap box.  Am blind myself, use braille, and am a former teacher.  I also see kids whose academic career is being destroyed by misinformed teachers, frightened parents, and well-meaning professionals who are not dealing with the "elephant in the living room," when it comes to the child's education.
> 
> Judy Jones
> (Sent From My U2 Mini)
> ________________________________________
> From: blindtlk [blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Hyde, David W. (ESC) via blindtlk [blindtlk at nfbnet.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 6:47 AM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Hyde, David W. (ESC)
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
> 
> If a blind person can't read braille, and can't read print, that person is, by definition, illiterate. I know students who are rated as audio learners. Most can't write, can't spell, can't parse sentences. Now, for those who enjoy words, is someone who can't learn auditoraly inaudient?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Kelm via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 12:46 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: James Kelm
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
> 
> I Absolutely agree with you!  I think that reading Braille is a true gift, and it makes me feel very sad to think that so many blind children have not been given this wonderful gift.  I also think that it is a tool that does sincerely empower blind folks.  This may seem to be a rather controversial statement, but I think that if a blind person, who has never been able to read print, does not learn to read Braille, a part of themselves will secretly feel as if they are illiterate.  In a very sad way, it is true.  As a youngster I can not pretend that I was greatly motivated to learn Braille.
> But now I am so happy that I had learned!  It is a great feeling to know that if I want to, I can independently read, without having to be dependent upon another person or technology to read for me.
> 
> And I have a huge advantage over my sighted counterparts.  I can read in bed at night, without having to turn on a light and awakening my sighted wife!
> LOLL
> 
> James
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brl2014! via blindtlk
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 11:34 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Brl2014!
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
> 
> I feel empowered by learning braille. I don't have to rely on a charger and the power grid to read. As an adult I'm finally learning it because visually impaired kids weren't taught it in the 70s and 80s. I think it's more like being sighted to read braille. Then again maybe I'm just crazy too.
> 
> Ericka
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 3:28 PM, James Kelm via blindtlk
>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Mike,
>> 
>>  I agree with you, but aren't people in general just so fickled?
>> LOLL One of my sope box issues is how many younger folks ignore
>> Braille, just because JAWS will read things to them.  I absolutely
>> adore technology, and am a huge fan of JAWS and similar programs.  But
>> there is something special about sitting in the living room with soft
>> music playing, and actually reading an actual book.  But then maybe I
>> am just showing my age, and I am really just an old curmudgeon!
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 3:10 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Cc: Mike Freeman
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
>> 
>> James:
>> 
>> I'm not Steve but I can't resist; I assure you I won't belabor the point.
>> You decry (not unreasonably) that some establishments don't embrace
>> new technologies often enough. However, I also think that many people
>> are abandoning tried-and-true technologies before such abandonment is
>> warranted.
>> For example, I know some younger person who, believe it or not, have
>> never made out a check for themselves. Hence, they tend to think that
>> using a scribe is a sign of dependence.Ibelieve such thinking to be short-sighted.
>> 
>> Peace!
>> 
>> Mike Freeman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James
>> Kelm via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 1:06 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: James Kelm
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
>> 
>> Dear Steve,
>> 
>>  Thank you for your thoughtful response, and it is often ironic
>> because although there are a lot more tools available that can make
>> the world slightly more accessible, there are still those who refuse
>> to embrace some of these simple solutions.  And so many of them are
>> not simply for us blind folks, but they will actually help the sighted
>> world as well.  Oh well...
>> When I am elected to the position of America's first emperor, things
>> will change!  LOLL
>> 
>>  On a bit of a serious note, I noticed on your E-mail that you are in
>> Minneapolis?  I am actually in Duluth.  If you would like, you can
>> E-mail me off list and tell me a bit about yourself.  It would be nice
>> to have communication with another Minnesota person!  *smile*
>> 
>> James Kelm
>> E-mail: jameskelm at earthlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Jacobson via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 1:50 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Cc: Steve Jacobson
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
>> 
>> James,
>> 
>> It is frustrating.  There are a couple of food delivery places here in
>> Minneapolis who will not take checks, and this is getting more and
>> more common.  It sounds like you have found the best solution.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Steve Jacobson
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James
>> Kelm via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 11:31 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: James Kelm
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
>> 
>> Thank you for all of your wonderful information that you took the time
>> to relay.  I sincerely appreciate it!
>> 
>>  I think that my bank's Bill Pay service is going to be the best
>> option for me.  It is free, which is always nice.  LOLL  It also will
>> allow me to send paper check with very little effort.  It is always a
>> bit frustrating for me when for example my landlord, will only accept
>> paper checks.  I have tried to talk them into either accepting a debit
>> card, or Paypal, but they just don't want to do it.  Go figure...  I
>> only have to write 2 checks each month, and now days so much is set up
>> to accept either credit/debit cards or
>> 
>> Paypal, that it is rather strange that 2 of the companies that I deal
>> with is so out of date.  But now I have the answer, so life is good!
>> *smile* My
>> 
>> only issue now is finding a program, or service, that will enable me
>> to print actual money as easily as checks.  LOLL
>> 
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Jacobson via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 11:16 AM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Cc: Steve Jacobson
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
>> 
>> James,
>> 
>> There are a number of things to consider.  First, let me start out by
>> saying that I print checks using a program from the American Printing
>> House for the Blind called MoneyTalks.  This program is not free, but
>> it is pretty reasonably priced and it includes some nice features.
>> 
>> First, whenever you fill in a pre-printed form, you need to pay
>> special attention to your printer.  The printer has to be particularly
>> good at feeding in a page so that printing starts at the same place every time.
>> The
>> term that is sometimes used to describe that is the printer's
>> registration.
>> If a printer is inconsistent, varying the top of the page by even
>> one-sixth of an inch, it will cause printing to be an entire line off
>> which is unacceptable for check writing.
>> 
>> Second, you have to make sure your printer will correctly feed a piece
>> of paper the size of a check.  I use an HP printer at work that
>> handles the small personal checks very nicely, but this isn't that
>> common.  My Dell printer at home had a feeder that can be adjusted
>> down to just larger than a personal check, and with practice, I can
>> feed personal checks into that printer as well.  Of course, you can
>> order larger checks that would likely be handled by more printers.
>> 
>> Also, you have to be careful of the ink used by your printer.  It used
>> to be said that checks should only be printed on laser printers
>> because the ink on inkjet printers was too easily erased.  I don't
>> know if that is still the case, but if your printer meets all of the
>> other criteria, you'll want to check to be sure the ink is very
>> permanent.
>> 
>> Finally, you probably could design a Microsoft Word document that
>> could allow you to print a check or possibly something could be set up
>> from Excel, but this would take a bit of work.  Even if you get a
>> program like MoneyTalks, you will need to work with someone to
>> calibrate MoneyTalks to print correctly on your check with your
>> printer.  This can take a bit of work and will require that you be
>> able to examine the results yourself or with the help of a sighted
>> reader.  You should probably be prepared to waste a few checks as
>> well, although you can run the same check through a few times to make
>> corrections in the one-time calibration.  The reason you will have to
>> calibrate your printer is that even though programs like MoneyTalks
>> already has templates for several standard checks, the feeding guides
>> of printers do not all work the same.  When feeding in smaller sizes,
>> some have one guide that one moves to the left until the correct width
>> is set.
>> Other
>> printers, including both of my printers, tend to center the check as
>> it feeds into the printer.  Where your printer positions the check can
>> affect how the calibration is set.  Further, printers usually process
>> checks in landscape mode instead of portrait mode so the check can be
>> fed in with the end first.  This is also true of envelopes.
>> 
>> Okay, now that I have probably scared you completely, please know that
>> I've been writing checks with my computer for years and I'm glad I
>> took the time to get it set up.  Still, I tend to want to be sure the
>> check printed correctly each time.  If you don't write many checks,
>> this may not be worth the trouble since you probably still need to
>> have a reader for some things.
>> In addition, even if a company does not take electronic payments, some
>> banks have a bill paying service that will actually send out a paper
>> check for a fee.  Your interface is electronic, but the company you
>> are paying receives paper.  It might be worth making certain you have
>> check to see if there are options like this for you.
>> 
>> Good luck.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Steve Jacobson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James
>> Kelm via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 10:45 AM
>> To: Blind Talk
>> Cc: James Kelm
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Check Writing Software Ideas Wanted...
>> 
>> Dear friends,
>> 
>>  Does anyone know of a free program that is usable for printing, and
>> filling out checks?  I am mainly looking for an accessible way to
>> independently fill out the checks that I must send out each month for
>> utility bills and such.  Right now I have to have a sighted friend do
>> my checks, and it would be really nice to be able to do them myself!
>> Unfortunately a couple of the bills that I pay each month, will not
>> accept electronic payments, so I have to send them actual paper checks.
>> 
>>  I am using a computer with Windows 7, with Microsoft Office
>> Professional.
>> 
>>  Thank you for your help!
>> 
>> 
>> James
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>> 
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>> 
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