[Blindtlk] non 24

Wed Jan 20 17:50:27 UTC 2016

Thank you Mark! I am really tired of reading about non-24 hour here! Next topic please.

Ericka Short
"Friends are like flowers in the garden of life"

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 6:46 AM, Mark Tardif via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Of course it's not okay, but please let's stop assuming that these ads are intentionally meant to hurt us.  I hate to say this, but every time something like this comes up, there is a certain segment of us who seem prepared to assume the worst in other people's motives.  If we continually think like that we won't get anywhere.  I hate to sound like I'm lecturing, but this rather angers me when we seem to look for the worst in others.  I happen to believe that this disorder really does exist and it just may be that many of us who are totally blind may suffer from it.  The other piece of that message, if we care to look for it, appears to be that for at least some people there may be a way to relieve those symptoms and allow that person to maybe, just maybe, function during the day.  End of lecture!
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Tardif
> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 10:53 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Bryan Schulz
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
> 
> Hi,
> 
> So why is it ok for vanda to basically give employers the thought that a
> blind person can't be a valuable quality employee without this pill?
> Bryan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Tardif
> via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 9:13 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Mark Tardif
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
> 
> Because they don't need to do so and it would be so preposterous that people
> 
> would laugh or turn away in disgust.  I mean most guys, unless you are a
> true sex addict, don't think the whole day about how to struggle to achieve
> the next, well, whatever you want to call it, I won't use the terms in
> polite company.  While sex is an important part of life, it is not nearly as
> 
> important as maintaining employment, and that, you do need to think about
> all day long.  And even if not employed, but doing other productive things,
> it is really true that people with various sleep disorders do "struggle to
> get through the day."
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Tardif
> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 6:10 PM
> To: 'S L Johnson' ; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Bryan Schulz
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
> 
> Sandra,
> 
> The difference is the Viagra commercials don't say the guy struggles to get
> through the day and their work suffers without the pill.
> Bryan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson
> via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: S L Johnson
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
> 
> Hello:
> 
> Before starting any drug, your doctor and/or pharmacist can carefully go
> over the individual components of the drug to be sure you have not reacted
> to anything in the past.  Unfortunately you sometimes don't know until you
> try a particular drug.  If you get some kind of reaction then, you discuss
> it with your doctor.  In my case, it became obvious that the Vanda drug
> Hetlios was causing severe headaches.  Once we stopped the drug, the
> headaches gradually diminished.  Whenever considering any new drug, it is
> important to discuss it with all your doctors to be sure it is suitable for
> your particular situation.  As for the Vanda advertising, they are doing the
> 
> same as all the other drug companies and that is trying to sell their drug
> to as many people as possible.  Hopefully as time goes on other drug
> companies will also develop similar drugs that may help treat circadian
> rhythm disorders.  You can already get melatonin over the counter and for
> some people it works quite well.  If you will notice, most drug advertising
> makes it seem like that drug is a miracle cure.
> 
> Sandra
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Jude DaShiell via blindtlk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 2:30 PM
> To: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
> Cc: Jude DaShiell ; Mike Freeman ; 'David Andrews'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
> 
> With regard and without any respect to all of this pharmaceutical
> advertising, how is anyone supposed to know what components of a new
> drug or vaccine they are allergic to without having first been tested
> for such allergies?
> 
>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via blindtlk wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 12:52:51
>> From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>, 'David Andrews' <dandrews at visi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
>> 
>> Dave et al:
>> 
>> I'm not saying Non-24 doesn't exist although I admit that I am skeptical
>> as
>> to how widespread it is. Leaving aside, though, the question of the
>> existence or frequency of the syndrome, I consider the Vanda ad campaign
>> reprehensible. If the ads simply said: "Call 800-bla-bla if you think you
>> fit criteria for using hetlioz.", I wouldn't object. But advertisers seem
>> incapable of conveying a simple message without sensationalizing the
>> message.
>> 
>> Mike Freeman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>> Andrews via blindtlk
>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:15 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: David Andrews
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] non 24
>> 
>> Steve and Mike:
>> 
>> I know I am behind on this, ... but nevertheless,
>> I would like to say a couple things.  First I was
>> skeptical too.  However, after talking to a
>> couple people in the study, who took the drug, I
>> think non-24-hour is real, and some blind people
>> have it.  I think that Vanda concentrated on us,
>> because we are a "pure play" for the condition
>> without lots of other variables.  I read
>> somewhere that they think that the condition may
>> impact seniors too, so I think this is their
>> ultimate goal.  That is a much larger market than
>> blind people, hence the willingness to spend
>> money on us to prove the condition and the cure.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> At 03:06 PM 1/6/2016, Mike Freeman via blindtlk wrote:
>>> Steve: I completely agree with you. I find it
>>> somewhat odd that the pharmaceutical firm put so
>>> much effort into advertising and marketing to
>>> such a small population. Additionally, I find it
>>> horrifying when I hear ads purporting to come
>>> from blind people which say that a blindness -"
>>> related illness causes them to fall asleep at
>>> work. What an example of the capability of the
>>> blind!!! Mike Freeman > On Jan 6, 2016, at
>>> 11:49, Steve Jacobson via blindtlk
>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > Gary, > > For a
>>> long time, I've had a very negative reaction to
>>> sleep study > conclusions that involve blind
>>> people.  In the past, there has been a > history
>>> of even educated people thinking of blindness as
>>> living in the dark > and feeling that there must
>>> be negative effects of constant darkness.  It >
>>> seemed sometimes that they would go to great
>>> lengths to prove what they > already knew just
>>> had to be true.  Over the years, I have had to
>>> adjust my > original position some partly
>>> because people I trust, such as yourself, have >
>>> felt that there may be a connection between
>>> blindness and sleep > irregularities.  Still, I
>>> read statements even in this current
>>> discussion > that raise red flags to me, and
>>> there are issues with the ad campaigns that >
>>> really puzzle me.  Perhaps some of the questions
>>> I have are answered > somewhere and I just have
>>> not gotten to them.  Here are some examples. > >
>>> There always seems to be a few people who use
>>> the logic "I am blind, I have > a sleep problem,
>>> therefore blind people have a sleep
>>> problem."  It isn't put > that simply or
>>> directly, but there is often a sense that any
>>> sleep problem > we have must be connected to
>>> blindness.  I find myself wondering if there
>>> is > really an understanding of the depths of
>>> sleep problems that exist among > sighted
>>> people.  I find that more than once when the
>>> subject comes up that > persons who are sighted
>>> acknowledge sleep difficulties.  I know of
>>> sighted > people who have fallen asleep at their
>>> desks, for example.  When one looks > at the
>>> marketing of sleeping aids, clearly sleep is a
>>> fairly widespread > problem.  Of course, I am
>>> not claiming that this disproves Non 24, but
>>> it > means we need to keep what we experience in
>>> perspective. > > It is my understanding that
>>> non 24 can apparently be diagnosed by the >
>>> presence of a chemical in one's
>>> blood.  Therefore, I accept that this >
>>> condition exists and can be diagnosed
>>> accurately.  However, given that sleep >
>>> problems are encountered by sighted people, and
>>> given that it is likely that > many of them do
>>> not have non 24, how can it be assumed that if a
>>> blind > person has non-24 that it is the only
>>> sleep issue?  Do we know that the > Vanda drug
>>> might not be correcting other issues, issues
>>> that sighted people > might have, for
>>> example?  In other words, whether the Vanda drug
>>> works or > not, how do we know that Non 24 is
>>> playing the major role that is being >
>>> publicized? > > We know that each of us can
>>> react differently to many things.  If we have >
>>> non-24, how is it determined whether the
>>> symptoms justify treatment?  Many > Gary, > >
>>> For a long time, I've had a very negative
>>> reaction to sleep study > conclusions that
>>> involve blind people.  In the past, there has
>>> been a > history of even educated people
>>> thinking of blindness as living in the dark >
>>> and feeling that there must be negative effects
>>> of constant darkness.  It > seemed sometimes
>>> that they would go to great lengths to prove
>>> what they > already knew just had to be
>>> true.  Over the years, I have had to adjust my >
>>> original position some partly because people I
>>> trust, such as yourself, have > felt that there
>>> may be a connection between blindness and
>>> sleep > irregularities.  Still, I read
>>> statements even in this current discussion >
>>> that raise red flags to me, and there are issues
>>> with the ad campaigns that > really puzzle
>>> me.  Perhaps some of the questions I have are
>>> answered > somewhere and I just have not gotten
>>> to them.  Here are some examples. > > There
>>> always seems to be a few people who use the
>>> logic "I am blind, I have > a sleep problem,
>>> therefore blind people have a sleep
>>> problem."  It isn't put > that simply or
>>> directly, but there is often a sense that any
>>> sleep problem > we have must be connected to
>>> blindness.  I find myself wondering if there
>>> is > really an understanding of the depths of
>>> sleep problems that exist among > sighted
>>> people.  I find that more than once when the
>>> subject comes up that > persons who are sighted
>>> acknowledge sleep difficulties.  I know of
>>> sighted > people who have fallen asleep at their
>>> desks, for example.  When one looks > at the
>>> marketing of sleeping aids, clearly sleep is a
>>> fairly widespread > problem.  Of course, I am
>>> not claiming that this disproves Non 24, but
>>> it > means we need to keep what we experience in
>>> perspective. > > It is my understanding that
>>> non 24 can apparently be diagnosed by the >
>>> presence of a chemical in one's
>>> blood.  Therefore, I accept that this >
>>> condition exists and can be diagnosed
>>> accurately.  However, given that sleep >
>>> problems are encountered by sighted people, and
>>> given that it is likely that > many of them do
>>> not have non 24, how can it be assumed that if a
>>> blind > person has non-24 that it is the only
>>> sleep issue?  Do we know that the > Vanda drug
>>> might not be correcting other issues, issues
>>> that sighted people > might have, for
>>> example?  In other words, whether the Vanda drug
>>> works or > not, how do we know that Non 24 is
>>> playing the major role that is being >
>>> publicized? > > We know that each of us can
>>> react differently to many things.  If we have >
>>> non-24, how is it determined whether the
>>> symptoms justify treatment?  Many > people have
>>> sleep difficulties that they address
>>> successfully through > various means, and it
>>> would seem reasonable to assume that in some
>>> cases > other approaches might be adequate.  How
>>> is this accommodated? > > We have become
>>> polarized to some degree around this
>>> issue.  Those of us who > are somewhat skeptical
>>> are often seen as clearly not having a problem
>>> and > therefore not understanding that others
>>> may not be so fortunate.  The > questions we
>>> raise are discounted.  Well, I don't raise
>>> questions to prove > that anyone does not have a
>>> sleep problem.  I also do not maintain that
>>> the > Vanda drug may not help some people, maybe
>>> even many people.  What concerns > me is that an
>>> environment is being created that more or less
>>> funnels people > into this particular solution
>>> when there are valid questions.  Also, the >
>>> picture painted by the ad campaign is pretty
>>> bleak.  I just don't see 70% of > us struggling
>>> to stay awake at our desks even though some of
>>> us do from time > to time.  I just think we need
>>> more answers than we have, and they need to >
>>> come from objective sources that don't stand to
>>> gain or loose depending upon > the answers. > >
>>> To those who have found the Vanda solution to be
>>> the answer and can afford > it, I am sincerely
>>> glad it has worked out.  Nothing said here is
>>> meant to > deny the fact that this drug may be a
>>> welcome solution in some or even many >
>>> cases.  It just seems to me that there are
>>> unanswered questions, and a > tendency to jump
>>> on the bandwagon while remaining silent about
>>> the ad > campaign. > > Best regards, > > Steve
>>> Jacobson > > -----Original Message----- > From:
>>> blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Gary Wunder > via blindtlk > Sent:
>>> Tuesday, January 05, 2016 5:36 PM > To: 'Blind
>>> Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> > Cc:
>>> Gary Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net> > Subject:
>>> Re: [Blindtlk] non 24 > > I have enjoyed reading
>>> the comments about non-24, and when I 1st heard
>>> about > the efforts of a pharmaceutical company
>>> to market to blind people, I was > suspicious. I
>>> think I was also a bit defensive, assuming that
>>> the worst > would happen. > > I suspect that I
>>> suffer from non-24. There are times when I have
>>> to work > very hard to stay awake, even when I
>>> find things around me to be interesting > and
>>> thought-provoking. There are times when at 4
>>> o'clock in the morning I am > totally wide-awake
>>> and mad about it. Then I will be walking through
>>> a store > or working at my desk or even
>>> exercising, and I find that I am exceedingly >
>>> tired. This suggests to me that I do have a body
>>> clock and that periodically > that body clock
>>> gets off. > > I relate to the comments about
>>> being embarrassed while at work and >
>>> unintentionally falling asleep. It does not
>>> reflect well on any employee > when this
>>> happens, and I admit that more than once I have
>>> been embarrassed > about nodding off at times
>>> when I was paid to be awake. I have developed
>>> a > number of strategies for combating this, but
>>> I can't claim that they work > 100% of the time.
>>> If I catch myself in time, I can always stand
>>> up, pace, do > toe touches, or engage in other
>>> activities that I can blame on needing to >
>>> stretch my legs or my sore back. Sometimes they
>>> too require attention, but > it is more likely
>>> that I am trying to ensure that I stay
>>> awake. > > I don't know that this adds anything,
>>> but I do believe that the subject is > important
>>> enough that I am likely to put it on our
>>> convention agenda here in > Missouri. If non-24
>>> is real, we should not try to run from it. If
>>> the > marketing is not what it should be, we
>>> should not run from that either. > > > >
>>> _______________________________________________ >
>>> blindtlk mailing list > blindtlk at nfbnet.org >
>> 
>>        David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
>> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40panix.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.
> net
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n
> et
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner
> .com
> 
> 
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4522/11440 - Release Date: 01/19/16
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n
> et
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/markspark%40roadrunner.com
> 
> 
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4522/11440 - Release Date: 01/19/16 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotwriter1%40gmail.com