[Blindtlk] Driverless Cars

Tue Jan 3 03:23:39 UTC 2017

An article in howtogeek newsletter stated that Larry Paige co-founder of 
google is investing millions in flying car technology so these vehicles 
may end up a little more capable than I thought originally.

On Mon, 2 Jan 2017, Lloyd Rasmussen via blindtlk wrote:

> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2017 14:50:42
> From: Lloyd Rasmussen via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Reply-To: Lloyd Rasmussen <lras at sprynet.com>,
>     Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen <lras at sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Driverless Cars
> 
> There is a very big push to get driverless cars, or at least partially 
> autonomous cars, into regular service. My wife says she will not ride in one. 
> I am following developments. I suspect that this might happen as a result of 
> a ride-sharing service like Lyft or Uber deploying some of these vehicles. I 
> think the NFB passed a resolution last summer insisting that blind people 
> have some control over these vehicles in a nonvisually-accessible way. What 
> if you have ordered a car to go from point A to point B and then find in 
> mid-trip that you need to change your destination?
> There are five levels of autonomy defined in the industry, with Level 5 being 
> the level where the car is expected to be capable of driving itself and 
> safely handling any situation that drivers would safely handle.
> The chip industry is busy building lower-power processors that can handle 
> artificial intelligence or deep learning algorithms. They think this is the 
> next big market, following after PCs and mobile devices. There are still a 
> lot of questions to be answered. How and to what extent should vehicles 
> automatically communicate with each other? Should this communication be 
> mediated by the cell phone companies? What combination of radar and lidar (a 
> radar that uses infrared or light waves) be used? How accurate must the road 
> maps be, and how is information conveyed concerning temporary detours, 
> construction, etc. Cars are supposed to be getting pretty good at detecting 
> pedestrians.
> A year ago, Tesla was marketing an "auto-pilot" feature for their cars. Last 
> summer a driver in Florida was running his on auto-pilot and drove under a 
> truck that was parked across the roadway, killing him. Tesla didn't report 
> the accident immediately, and I'm sure that not all of the facts have come 
> out yet. But some speculation is that their system recognized the white 
> object in front of the car as a road sign, and didn't see that there wasn't 
> going to be enough clearance underneath it.
> Depending on the regulatory environment, the National Highway Traffic Safety 
> Administration may require manufacturers to document how their algorithms 
> work and what situations they are programmed to handle. This becomes 
> problematic when you are training neural networks to recognize situations and 
> "understand" them, and you don't know what factors made the computer come to 
> the decision that it made.
> We have gone from an era of total skepticism about the blind driveable car 
> (Mike Freeman was in that camp for a very long time) and into the era where 
> lawyers, marketers and engineers will have a field day. Don't believe 
> everything you hear. But don't disbelieve all of it, either, because a 
> revolution is coming more quickly than I had expected. The first effects 
> might involve long-haul truckers losing their jobs.
>
>
>
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> -----Original Message----- From: Judy Jones via blindtlk
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 1:24 PM
> To: gwunder at earthlink.net ; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Judy Jones
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Driverless Cars
>
> Very good advice.  This brings up another question I was wrongly assuming.
>
> I was thinking that there might also need to be some kind of interactivity
> with the roadways, but now, I believe my assumption was false.  That being
> the case, a driverless car could perform on any road, but I think these need
> to be tested on curvy mountain roads with switchbacks, as well as the wide,
> straight highway, dirt roads, etc.
>
> Also, if the driverless capability is inserted in to off-road vehicles, that
> will be interesting testing as well.
>
> This also may not be the greatest of comparisons, but makes me wonder.  Here
> it is.  On sunny days, if one opens our garage around 1:15 or 1:20 in the
> afternoon, because of the angle of the sun, our door will not close, as it
> think it is detecting an object.  What is happening is that the sun is
> hitting in such a way that a shadow is thrown across the sensor eye of the
> automatic opener.  The solution to the problem is waiting till around ten to
> two, then the door closes with no problem, as the angle of the sun is
> slightly changed.  Weird? Yes,  Had our house been built at a slightly
> different angle, this probably would not be an issue.  Even with all our
> garage activity, we only deal with this 2 or 3 times a year.
>
> Having said all this, is the driverless technology capable of distinguishing
> a road shadow or a puddle from an object?  I would like to know how much
> testing is actually happening and how much more to go.
>
> Judy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
> via blindtlk
> Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:08 AM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Gary Wunder
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Driverless Cars
>
> Hello, Jen. Let me offer a contrary point of view, one that is more in line
> with yours. I have no crystal ball, but the people from Google and other
> developers of self-driving cars believe they will be on the road by 2020.
> Uber believes they will be on the road very soon. I see all kinds of
> scenarios in which it is judged that the computer will be less responsive
> than the human being, and I find myself surprised by this. Certainly there
> are plenty of scenarios to test for, but once you teach the computer, it
> will not forget, become distracted, or decide that driving is monotonous and
> that it should put its resources elsewhere. Why do we assume that a human
> being will be more perceptive about a child running out into the street than
> a computer which is constantly on watch for such things?
>
> I am delighted to be a human being and thank God for the complexity of the
> brain He has given me. Still, I think it is traditional for human beings to
> question what makes us unique from other animals and now even unique from
> machines. We are perfectly willing to concede that a machine can do faster
> calculations than we can do and do them with more accuracy. We are willing
> to concede that they do not get bored. Still, we cling to the belief that it
> is we who can deal with more complex situations and that our innate
> reverence for human life will make us better drivers. I think we must wait
> for the future to determine this, for it is not our reverence for human life
> that is in question but our ability to pay attention to small details and
> have ways to react to the unexpected.
>
> I do not know whether at sixty-one I will ever have the opportunity to own
> or operate a self-driving vehicle. What I do know is that having one will
> increase my independence. With a self-driving vehicle I will determine how
> early to start out for an appointment and when I want to leave it. With uber
> and other ride services, I have more control than I once did, but I can tell
> you that there have been far too many times in my life when I was made late
> by a family member who did not see the same urgency to get to a family
> reunion as I did or who wanted to leave earlier than I did.
>
> Bryan Schulz is right when he says that we are going to have to have a
> number of laws changed in order to have this technology accepted. when an
> accident happens, we want somebody to blame. It is our nature to have to
> find fault. So, if it can be determined that a self-driving car caused an
> accident or could have reasonably avoided one that a human would have, who
> pays? I take Solis in the fact that insurance companies are one of the
> driving forces behind the development of autonomous vehicles; they believe
> that machines will eventually be safer drivers than humans.
>
> So, Jen, at the risk of giving you false hope, which I was given when I was
> sixteen years old, there may indeed be hope that one day you will be able to
> own your own vehicle, go when you want to go and where you want to go, and
> the presence of that very vehicle may allow you to get to and from
> employment that is physically impossible now. Don't hold your breath; don't
> forfeit other training available to you; don't pass up opportunities now on
> the chance that something big will change in the near future. The only thing
> I suggest is that you keep an open mind and that you follow the
> technological developments as they appear in the mainstream press. Like
> hawks we follow those things in the news that disturb us; let us at least be
> as diligent in following those things that may make our lives better.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jen via
> blindtlk
> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2017 3:22 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Jen
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Driverless Cars
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> What is your opinion of driver-less cars? Personally, I can't wait for their
> arrival on the road! I'm totally blind from birth and would like the chance
> to drive, just to feel what it feels like. My best friend, who happens to be
> sighted, feels otherwise though.
>
> How about you?
>
>
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