[Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound Braille Material
Jen
spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jan 3 18:11:33 UTC 2017
Hi everyone,
I was thinking a lot about this thread last night.
1. If I got a book that was unbound and un-collated, it would be
unacceptable to me, even if I was sighted.
2. Regarding the pharmacy labels, there are variables to consider. Do the
pharmacy staff know braille? Are the pages numbered so the print is over the
braille so the pharmacy staff can label the package properly if they don't
know braille?
3. I would never give someone something I wrote which was un-collated. In
school, when I printed hard copies for my teachers and professors, I always
stapled the papers together. With the help of my tutor and other sighted
people, I saw to it the pages were in the right order before I stapled them.
I also made sure the document printed successfully. These would be the
expectations for all conscientious sighted students, too. To me, this is a
matter of being conscientious and, if I did not take these steps, it would
be a reflection on me as a student, even if I was sighted. It would be like
if I handed every assignment in without proofreading it - if my assignment
was not proofread, it would be unfinished. Period.
I think all braille material should be bound and collated because Braille
takes up more pages, and the possibility of losing or misnumbering pages
when you self-collate is higher.
Jen
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jacobson via blindtlk
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 9:49 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound Braille Material
I think you are ignoring many of the arguments and taking some out of
context, and why wait so long before responding? Personally, I think blind
kids should get materials bound and collated if the print copies were, but
some experience in dealing with unbound materials when their sighted
classmates are doing the same isn't necessarily a bad idea, as long as the
page count isn't too much higher. We talked when this came up before there
is a lot of temporary print now that is not bound, and it was mentioned
prescription information comes in many different ways. I am guessing most
businesses will bind any materials for which you want to pay for the
binding, but are you saying braille materials should be bound and collated,
even when the companies have chosen not to bind the print copies at their
expense? I am personally not that concerned I get something bound I am going
to read once and probably discard; however, since braille takes more pages,
I accept the fact there might be some documents that would be better if
bound than the print source material. I just don't see how one can say all
braill should be bound, as you seem to be saying.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Donahue via blindtlk
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 4:43 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound Braille Material
Good afternoon everyone,
We're saying this once and for all!This need not be an either or an or
proposition. It may not be imnportant to receive Braille documents ready for
reading but don't you ever compromise the standards and expectations of
those who feel this is very important. If you Braille anything for us you
better collate and bind it prior to shipping it to us or we will take our
business to someone who will! If you operate a Braille transcription and
production business and have a reputation for sending out uncolated and
unbound documents don't expect favorable recommendations from us!
If we had blind children we would not want them around individuals whotell
the blind they can live the lives they want and at the same time be
"Greatful" that your material is in Braille reguardless of the condition in
which it arrives. Pick your battles but be careful not to compromise the
standards and expectations of others when making such choices!That's quite
enough of this lot!
Peter and Mary Donahue
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carly
Mihalakis via blindtlk
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 1:55 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List; S L Johnson; Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Carly Mihalakis
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound Braille Material
Good morning, James,
Very well said! And, might do us all good to bare in mind that blindness
isn't the only special interest group there is,. What do you think other
handicapables might do should their personal interests become subsumed by
the majority's?
James is right, you oughta pick and chose your battles. People don't really
care, they're just trying to get theirs, too.
Car /11/2016, James Kelm via blindtlk wrote:
>Hello all... Well I thought that I'd jump in
>here, but first I want to make clear that I am, nor do I want to
>disrespect anyone, or suggest that I have all the answers! We all have
>to deal with our own reality, and that can be much
>different for each of us. With regard to my
>own reality, I am often rather surprised over how much additional drama
>both the blind, as well as the sighted world create for themselves. Of
>course I am a bit older than many of you, but I have learned over my
>life-time that a basic rule that governs the universe is that life
>isn't fair. It would be great to live in a world that was totally
>accessible for us blind folks, but that just isn't the world that we
>live in. It is good to stand up for our rights, and the battles that
>we fight today may just help those who come after us, and make their
>life a little easier. But in general, life isn't fair, we live in a
>sighted world, and it is frequently a little pleasure when someone, who
>also lives in this sighted world, goes out of their way to help us
>blind folks navigate through our day. But in general, most people not
>only don't think about our needs, but they are so caught up with their
>own life struggles, that they don't really care whether we get
>everything perfectly accessible for us. This is obviously unfair to
>us, it shows a bit of absence of feeling toward us, and most often
>causes us to live a life that is harder than it needs to be. But the
>world does not think about how to make life easier for us, and that is
>the reality that we must learn to live with. If we do not, we simply
>even add more struggles to our already challenging life, and that
>doesn't do us, or anyone any
>good. This is just the ramblings of an old
>road dog, who just doesn't expect the world in general, to really go
>out of their way for me, just because I happen to be blind. For those
>who have done that little extra, I say thank you very much, tell them
>how much they have personally helped, and politely suggest ways that
>someone might even help more in the future, but that I am happy that
>they did what they already did. I find that people are more likely to
>help in the future with sincere good feelings, if they have not dealt
>with negativity in the past and are now just trying to keep from being
>yelled at. Respectfully, James -----Original Message----- From: Ericka
>via blindtlk Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 10:39 PM To: S L Johnson
>; Blind Talk Mailing List Cc:
>Ericka Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound Braille Material
>In a perfect world, yes braille would be perfectly printed and
>collated, staples etc. However in the print world as stated things are
>just shoved in a bag and nobody proofread anything for the sighted
>world.
>I agree that we should be happy braille medication labels and
>information is in existence. Welcome to the real world here. The real
>world of misprints, duplicate copies, missing information, and miss
>information. As long as the medication in the bottle and the medication
>on the paperwork is the same you have what you need. I'd be more
>concerned if you had the wrong medication in the bottle than the label
>or the wrong strength. That can be more dangerous than a misspelling.
>In short, we do have equity - everyone has missed spellings and poorly
>printed information. Deal with it.
>Ericka from my iPhone 6s > On Dec 10, 2016, at
>1:23 PM, S L Johnson via blindtlk >
><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > Hello: > > I can speak to this a bit
>because my local pharmacist and I have been > discussing how to get the
>Braille prescription labels for me. As I > understand it, the
>pharmacies who use the system to provide Braille labels > get a printer
>to hook up to their computer system. That prints out the > labels and
>any accompanying information just like the print papers given > to >
>the sighted public. Those pharmacists do not know Braille nor do they
>> have > proof readers on staff every time a blind person orders their
>meds. Their > job is to get the medications out to you as soon as
>possible. They do not > have the time to send the document out to be
>proof read and bound. Also, > that would cost way to much money just
>to fill a prescription. As for the > sighted, all they get is a bunch
>of papers thrown into their bag along > with > their meds. They are
>not collated or stapled in any particular order. I > think you are
>asking too much for prescription information. If it were an >
>important lengthy document, then I can see making a fuss but for the >
>stuff > that comes with your prescriptions, you are making too much out
>of it. Be > glad that we now have this information available to us.
>Things might not > be > perfect but it is a lot better than it used to
>be. > > -----Original Message----- > From:
>Peter Donahue via blindtlk > Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:20 AM
>> To:
>steve.jacobson at visi.com ; Blind Talk Mailing List > Cc: Peter Donahue >
>Subject: Re:
>[Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound Braille Material > > Hello Steve and
>everyone, > > As previously mentioned we've
>been to national conventions and have > been given Braille material
>that first needed to be put in order before > it could be read. It's
>still the NFB's responsibility to be an example > of how Braille should
>be presented to the blind. The Education Service > Center, the Via
>Metropolitan Transit Authority, and the San Antonio > Lighthouse for
>the Blind deliver Braille publications colated, bound, > and ready to
>read. Nothing less will do! All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > > >
>Steve Jacobson via blindtlk wrote: >> Peter, >> >> While I tend to
>agree with Brian and Mike, I would like to propose some >> thoughts on
>this and see what your reaction is. Your statement that >> sighted >>
>people wouldn't accept documents that are not collated really doesn't
>>> apply >> to this directly. For example, the information I have seen
>that >> accompanies >> a prescription in print is not colated at all.
>In fact, how it is >> printed >> is not all that consistent. We
>routinely receive information in the mail >> that consists of multiple
>sheets of information, sometimes folded >> together, >> but not bound.
>Printed prescription information is sometimes on the >> label >>
>attached to the bottle and sometimes also on a sheet from which the >>
>bottle >> label was printed. Such documents are printed and mailed
>quickly along >> with >> the order. They often are not even stapled in
>my experience. >> >> As you know, one of the issues we have is that
>braille takes up more >> space >> and is printed on heavier paper.
>This can mean that what we receive in >> braille may well be more of a
>document than text printed on a couple of >> unbound print pages. This
>means that the people making these decisions >> are >> not even going
>to think in terms of binding documents since it is not at >> all >> a
>consideration for their print documents. Further, those producing >>
>braille >> are likely going to have a flat charge for binding that is
>based more on >> the >> number of volumes rather than the number of
>pages. Therefore, binding a >> small document as are prescription
>warnings, is going to add >> significantly >> to the cost of brailling
>each document. >> >> Therefore, it seems to me that we have to be
>careful about drawing the >> parallels you draw between collating print
>and braille documents and give >> some consideration if it is worth the
>increased cost of making braille >> available in all cases. With all
>of the issues that face us, I just >> can't >> see mounting a national
>campaign, especially when you will probably read >> the >> document
>once and throw it away. We just have to think these things >> through.
>>> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> I >> -----Original
>Message----- >>
>From: blindtlk
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter >> Donahue via
>blindtlk >> Sent:
>Friday, December 09, 2016 10:32 PM >> To:
>'National Association to Promote the Use of Braille Mailing List' >>
><napub at nfbnet.org> >>
>Cc: Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>; 'Blind Talk Mailing List' >>
><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] Uncollated and Unbound
>Braille Material >> >> Good evening
>everyone, >> >> >> This
>afternoon, in addition to receiving two prescription >> medicines from
>CVS/Caremark Mail Order Service, I also received some >> braille >>
>documentation describing the dangers and the side effects of the two >>
>medicines.
>While I appreciated CVS/Caremark including the subscription >>
>information in braille, the pages were unbound and uncollated. Would we
>>> stand for that if we were sighted? Absolutely
>not! >> >> >> Needless to say, I
>called CVS/Caremark Customer Service. >> There was not much the
>representative could do, so she transferred me to >> one >> of her
>managers named Orion. Orion sent an email directly to the pharmacy >>
>since the pharmacy was responsible for packing and shipping the
>medicines >> to >>
>me. >> >> >> We have received
>such unbound and uncollated >> documentation >> from our local transit
>service, and for the past year, any documentation >> we >> receive has
>been collated and bound properly. In addition, when the Texas >>
>Division of Blind Services was the Texas Commission for the Blind, I >>
>received an unbound, uncollated document. Even NFB has given out >>
>uncollated, >> unbound documentation at national
>conventions. >> >> >> I strongly
>urge that if any of you use CVS/Caremark as >> your >> subscription
>drug provider, or if you receive braille documentation from >> any >>
>other groups, please call and/or send them a letter or email. We do not
>>> need >> to tolerate unbound, uncollated pages. I know if I
>transcribed and >> proofread >> such documentation, I would make sure
>the pages were collagted and bound >> before
>shipping. >> >> >> At any rate,
>those are my two cents on this matter. >> Here's >> hoping you enjoy
>the rest of your weekend! >> >> >> Mary Donahue >> >> >>
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