[Blindtlk] Subject: Original Sin

Sat Jul 22 16:01:22 UTC 2017

Good Morning,
This individual has been thrown off other lists.  Moderator, please remove this individual.  Unfortunately, he collects private emails and sends his hateful posts to people.I feel this individual is harassing.

Marianne 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Kelm via blindtlk
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:36 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List; wuas at wake-up.org
Cc: James Kelm; Bob Evans
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Subject: Original Sin

Dear Moderator,

    I hope that any further postings from this person will be blocked!!!  I love this list, but do not wish to have this kind of hatred and social ugliness coming to my in box!!!  I can't talk for others, but I do not want any of this individual's postings to be allowed to be sent out to subscribers!!!

Respectfully,
James

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Evans via blindtlk
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:03 AM
To: wuas at wake-up.org
Cc: Bob Evans
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Subject: Original Sin

Hello, thank you for your response. I just would like to append further assertions. Based on your stark reluctance to tackle any of my theological challenges, it is considered an implicit defeatism for your camp. Protestants are not more than mere servants to Zionism. And as for your Christology devotion, it is considerably undistinguished.
Your endorsement to the apartheid Zionist state is intrinsically inalienable. Thence, our duty is to incessantly engage with you in relentless combat missions until your party is perfectly discomfited.
Your ministry doesn’t base its tenets on nothing but an oblique hope of a theoretical scheme of salvation. The assumption that someone could have died for your sin is substantially Laputan and consequently, it is unlikely to be rectifiable. In Trump’s damnable era, your state of dismay has just started. Americanisation is quite fragile and its global leadership is about to diminish. Your oval office is  rotten to the core. Jews have constantly been dominating your denomination since Martin Luther era and even earlier to that time. There are many Muslims whom I knew have abandoned Islam to Christianity. Nevertheless, I never fathomed the relationship between becoming Christian, residing in the States and endorsing Zionists. I wish you have got sufficient courage to tackle this challenge in the slightest. I urge you to ponder properly on what I proposed. If you ever perceived the demand to clarify what might be vague to you, kindly, keep me notified. Best wishes, Bob

On 7/21/17, Marty Purvis <wuas at wake-up.org> wrote:
> Hello Mostafa:
>
> Thank you for your email.
>
> Our views on religious matters are very far apart.
> So far, that further discussion would most likely be fruitless.
>
> Sincerely,
> Larry Wilson
>
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Contact Page Message < 
> postmaster at wake-up.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Mostafa, technically Bob <ebob824 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Original Sin
>>
>> Visitor's Message:
>> Hello. I am Mostafa Almahdy. Bob Evans is just a technical name. I 
>> used to be called so when I worked at an American call centre here in 
>> Cairo. So, it is still my name. In the subsequent segment, I’ll 
>> present the Christian narrative of Original Sin in addition to posing 
>> crucial queries and denotative rebuttals. What is Original Sin in 
>> Christianity? It is a sin said to be inherited by all descendants of 
>> Adam. When Adam and Eve sinned, death entered to the world. Thence, 
>> God demanded to be paid to redeem humanity. He then sacrificed his 
>> only begotten son to ransom us. This account may ostensibly seem to 
>> be reasonable. Be that as it may, it contains major defects. First of 
>> which, it portrays the divine with imperfection. It doesn’t recognise 
>> his omnipotence. Why? Because according to this theology, he demanded 
>> to be paid in order to redeem. At its inception, I have couple of 
>> questions for clergy. First, has Adam been destined to be eternal in 
>> Eden? Second, when he committed his ever first sin, why hasn’t he 
>> been given one chance to repent? Third, when Adam ate from the tree 
>> of knowing good and evil, he became like God according to Genesis. A 
>> question here, has he been punished because he became aware of good 
>> and evil? It is assumed that he didn’t know good and evil until he 
>> ate from the tree of knowing good and evil. So, how could God punish 
>> an innocent? And as for sin inheritance, if a man and a woman 
>> committed adultery, could we possibly hold their child accountable 
>> for what they have done? This is the precise logic exploited in 
>> Christian concept of Original Sin. And as for redemption and 
>> forfeiture, if God was paid to redeem, how could he still forgive? If 
>> I supposedly wounded someone, does he has the right to retaliate? 
>> Yes, he certainly does. And, if he wanted to forgive me, could he 
>> still retaliate? No, he surely couldn’t. It’s either forgiveness or 
>> retaliation, it couldn’t be both. And as for Christ, how could an 
>> innocent bear the guilty’s iniquity? According to traditional 
>> Christian theology, death entered to the world when Adam and Eve sinned.
>> Therefore, someone had to die for this. He had to be impeccant and, 
>> he had to die forever. Christians preach that Jesus is the one who 
>> paid for this.
>> The question is, did he die forever? According to Christian story, he 
>> died for three days. Well actually, he died for less than that if you 
>> think of it a bit. Jesus’s date of Crucifixion and resurrection 
>> differs from gospel to another. Please, don’t take my word for this. 
>> I urge you to just check John nineteen and Mark fifteen. Most 
>> Christians today believe that Jesus died on a Friday afternoon and 
>> risen on a fine Easter Sunday morning. As for Adventists, they do not 
>> believe in this. They even have their Sabbath held on Saturday. 
>> Christian innovation of Original Sin is remarkably exposed. I urge 
>> southern laity and their associates to genuinely ponder on the 
>> scenario encountered in Christian theology. If Adam sinned and we 
>> were contagiously destined to be anathematised eternally, why didn’t 
>> Jesus die forever then? I believe that my points are critical and 
>> thus, they deserve thorough attention. It is a bit odd to just rely 
>> on the thought that someone theoretically died for my sins and then, 
>> go do whatever I want.
>> We
>> bear witness western Christians who basically don’t care about what 
>> they do. They eat explicitly prohibited cattle, they vastly consume 
>> alcoholic beverages and they carelessly engage in illicit wedlock. 
>> Where is your devotional consignment? Religious life is the last 
>> thing a lay western Christian wants to think of. I respectfully ask 
>> you to ponder on your religious responsibility. As a Muslim, what 
>> prevents me from having a girlfriend? Well, nothing but my religion 
>> which holds me fully accountable for either righteous or vicious 
>> deeds. Why Christian tradition is so tolerant with the culture of 
>> boyfriend and girlfriend illicit relationships? As you can see, 
>> despite the concept’s fraudulently emotional prettification, it is 
>> besieged with numerously irreconcilable discrepancies. This is the 
>> primary tenet upon which your whole faith is based, this is indeed 
>> the backbone of Christianity. If someone disagrees with this 
>> statement,  well, tell me then, how could the account of Crucifixion 
>> and Redemption be presented without basing it on the Christian 
>> concept of Original Sin? I seriously attempt to fathom. I do not 
>> intend to deride or ridicule. I am totally convinced that Christians 
>> have absolute right to broadly proselytize, to keenly call for their 
>> faith. Yes, they have the right to do so on one condition. I urge 
>> them to refrain from using fallacious rhetoric in their dialog. It 
>> just makes their stance quite attenuated and thus, susceptible  to 
>> easily crumble under critical scrutiny. I am prepared to be 
>> christened if someone convinced me with plain reasonableness that 
>> what you believe is the truth. I do not give credit to Christian 
>> portraiture of original sin. Now, if you want to convince someone to 
>> become Christian, you have got to explain this mystery to him. For 
>> some reason, it seems to be unexplainable to me. It looks like as if 
>> someone worked it out or made it up. So basically, I feel it is quite 
>> perturbing to  conjointly destine our whole human species to hell for 
>> no fault of its own. However, some pastors tend to baffle between 
>> holding the innocent versus the guilty accountable, either instigants 
>> or actual actors. Pastor Jacob of Michigan believes that instigants 
>> are not to be held accountable.
>> Who is an instigant?                      An instigant is someone who
>> deliberately foments trouble. So, if hateful pastors provoked mass 
>> Muslim offence that led to broad outrage, they are basically held 
>> accountable for any casualty or fatality rate. Similarly, if Muslim 
>> clerics caused hate because of their radical speech, they are wholly 
>> held accountable for any erupted tension  in the community. So, 
>> statutorily, instigants are equally held accountable just as actual 
>> actors. So, if a girl who is absolutely gorgeous wore a staggeringly 
>> provocative outfit to purposely beguile men, she is partly held 
>> accountable for the lust she consciously  instigated.
>> It
>> seems that    fibbers and  chisellers are not willing to address the
>> subject of Original Sin fairly. They tend to breach with decisive facts.
>> Therefore, their theology is incessantly subjected to critical criticism.
>> Some of them even asked me, whether we as Muslims are sure we are 
>> going to heaven. I wouldn’t ever assure I am going to heaven unless 
>> with  providential amnesty. I would say it is unjustified pride if I 
>> ever thought I am absolutely going to heaven. It just contradicts 
>> with enjoined humility. Islam teaches us to be pious and to devote 
>> ourselves to doing good deeds. I on multiple occasions attempted to 
>> establish a mutually deferential dialog with southern pastors. 
>> Nevertheless, they failed to comply to this. Their level of timidity 
>> did not match with my expectations.
>> I tell them, if you ever wanted to learn about Islam, it is not an 
>> encouraging motive to obliviously quote oriental literature. First 
>> off, you desperately demand to develop proper command of Arabic. 
>> Moreover, your prejudicial notion doesn’t do more than substantiating 
>> your unprecedented nescience. If Original Sin wasn’t the fundamental 
>> belief of Christianity, it would have not been used to constitute its 
>> doctrinal tenets. I civilly postulate this theological conversation 
>> because I am quite interested in comparative theology. For each 
>> faith, there are fundamental tenets. I challengingly assert that 
>> without Original Sin, Christianity would have not ever existed. For 
>> emotional motives, the idea that someone died in the cause of your 
>> salvation is quite appealing. However, as we saw, it has many defects 
>> if it is to be illustrated in moderately rational disposal. I await 
>> to hear pastoral response. But please, we do not need to either 
>> equivocate nor unconscionably philosophise the matter. It rather has 
>> to be simplified in a rationally straightforward manner. Beating 
>> around the bush has intemperately fell at the first hurdle. Thank you 
>> for reading, Mostafa, technically Bob Evans.
>>
>> --
>> This e-mail was sent from the "Contact US" page on Wake Up America 
>> Seminars
>> (https://www.wake-up.org/contact-us/)
>>
>

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