[BlindTlk] Employment rate of the blind Re: BlindTlk Digest, Vol 151, Issue 9

Tue Jan 15 18:19:56 UTC 2019

I think that what we say should be as positive as we can say it, and I think that we ought to raise expectations far beyond where they are. None of this argues for failing to face the truth. Sighted people find it easier to get jobs because there are more jobs they can do. I cannot be a postman. I can't drive a bread truck to deliver to stores. I'm not sure that I could figure out a way to handle the inventory and be a clothing salesman. I suspect that I could own a used car lot, but if I had lots of cars, would I be the best salesman when a person said that they wanted a certain color and a certain make?

When we argue for blindness as nuisance rather than tragedy, nuisance still is a significant inconvenience. If we could do every job, if we could handle every home appliance, if we had every transportation option open to the sighted, perhaps there would not be a National Federation of the Blind, but there are still plenty of problems for us to solve. The thing we have to do is keep some perspective. My perspective is that sometimes we work our hearts out and don't find jobs. Sometimes we apply for a few jobs and stop. Sometimes what is supposed to be our safety net ends up being our lifelong income and we adjust to it. We may not be happy when someone asks us what we do for a living, but we are not hungry, we are not without housing, and many of us have enough disposable income that we still enjoy our favorite music, some kind of television subscription service, and a night out on the town once in a while. It is not for me to judge whether we push hard enough for jobs, and goodness knows I am not defending the kind of discrimination that we have all encountered. It is there, and it is real. I do worry though that we have the option of giving up and knowing there will be some public support, while my sighted daughter knows that she better take anything she can get because the student loan bills have already started to come.

One last point, and then I'll leave the discussion to others. Several years ago I visited the Colorado Center for the Blind, and Diane McGeorge ask people what they intended to do after leaving the center. One of them said that he intended to work as an agent for the FBI, and the other said that she intended to be an administrator at the Central intelligence agency. Diane was not dismissive of their end goal, but she asked them what they intended to do when they left the center and had no work experience. The jobs they want may well be within their reach, but they are not entry-level jobs, and everyone starts at the bottom.

Warmly,

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Judy Jones via BlindTlk
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 11:56 AM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Judy Jones
Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Employment rate of the blind Re: BlindTlk Digest, Vol 151, Issue 9

They have more choices, but not all are in their dream job.  Most, especially at first, get a job to keep food on the table and to be able to pay rent.  You then either work up the ladder to get a better position, or go to school to get training for what you really want to do.  It's all about goals.

The kind of jobs that provide what my husband and I call "table" money, are much easier for a sighted person to get than is for us.  It's hard to find jobs anyway for blind people, not because of lack of qualifications necessarily, but because of stereotypic misconceptions about blind people.

Once we get a job, we are more than likely going to try to hang onto it.  Generalizations, of course.

Judy

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kishia Mason via BlindTlk
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 9:44 AM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Cc: Kishia Mason
Subject: [BlindTlk] Employment rate of the blind Re: BlindTlk Digest, Vol 151, Issue 9

Would it be better to have 100% working age blind and visually impaired employed in jobs that are not suited to their potential or interests or better if most or not all of those blind or visually impaired are not working because of available jobs that do not fit their interests and capabilities? I hope that I articulated that right. Honestly it isn’t right that sighted people have more of a diverse selection of career choices then blind and even disabled.  We are supposed to be equal and yet when it comes to state agencies and also others dealing with blind and visually impaired people getting employed there is not diversity in choice. That alone tends to discourage some people including myself.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2019, at 5:00 AM, blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Roanna Bacchus)
>   2. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Judy Jones)
>   3. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Roanna Bacchus)
>   4. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Jude DaShiell)
>   5. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Jude DaShiell)
>   6. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Judy Jones)
>   7. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Jude DaShiell)
>   8. Re: The Unemployment Rate of The Blind (Judy Jones)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 14:35:17 -0500
> From: Roanna Bacchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <5c3ce49c.1c69fb81.8d8bc.33dd at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Dear Members,
> 
> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic?
> 
> Roanna Bacchus??
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 12:03:41 -0800
> From: "Judy Jones" <sonshines59 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <000301d4ac44$3fded9f0$bf9c8dd0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> Yes, this has been proven years ago, and it is a day by day education process.  The reason this is, that there are so few blind in comparison to other minority or disability groups, so we're some of the least understood.  This has always been the case.  Over the years, I have seen great strides in some areas, and technology has certainly helped this, but we still have a long way to go.
> 
> Back in the day, we didn't have to worry about competitive technology.  For example, any blind person who had learned touch typing could use a typewriter and correcting tape to fix mistakes.  
> 
> Blind mechanics could do their job without having to deal with a computer diagnostic screen they might not have access to.
> 
> We didn't have quiet cars, e-scooters, or obstructive vehicle-share issues or pop-up bus stops to deal with.
> 
> On the other hand, back then, the only way to get at printed material was to have it brailled, read, or recorded, once recordings were possible.
> 
> So, I think, now, in some ways, it is easier for blind people to make it, in other ways, harder.  The big plus now, is that we have all kinds of information available to us, just as our sighted counterparts, but we still are trying to figure out competitive ways of getting at and using this information, whether it's classroom access, or job site access.
> 
> What concerns me is that over the years, unemployment among the blind hasn't seemed to go down, so the problem hasn't really been solved yet, in spite of our efforts.
> 
> The way I look at it, though, is, there is always going to be that first day of discovery, whether small or great, that will further aid us in successful employment.
> 
> Judy
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Roanna Bacchus
> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> 
> Dear Members,
> 
> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic?
> 
> Roanna Bacchus  
> _______________________________________________
> BlindTlk mailing list
> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:11:45 -0500
> From: Roanna Bacchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>
> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <5c3ced1e.1c69fb81.68c7c.1cde at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Judy thanks for your message. I have been job hunting for three years. In 2017 I applied fol eight jobs and got rejected from every one of them. I applied to be a Communications Specialist with the Seminole County Sherriff's office. They determined that even with the use of Jaws I could not do the job.
> 
>> On Jan 14, 2019 3:03 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, this has been proven years ago, and it is a day by day education process.? The reason this is, that there are so few blind in comparison to other minority or disability groups, so we're some of the least understood.? This has always been the case.? Over the years, I have seen great strides in some areas, and technology has certainly helped this, but we still have a long way to go. 
>> 
>> Back in the day, we didn't have to worry about competitive technology.? For example, any blind person who had learned touch typing could use a typewriter and correcting tape to fix mistakes.? 
>> 
>> Blind mechanics could do their job without having to deal with a computer diagnostic screen they might not have access to. 
>> 
>> We didn't have quiet cars, e-scooters, or obstructive vehicle-share issues or pop-up bus stops to deal with. 
>> 
>> On the other hand, back then, the only way to get at printed material was to have it brailled, read, or recorded, once recordings were possible. 
>> 
>> So, I think, now, in some ways, it is easier for blind people to make it, in other ways, harder.? The big plus now, is that we have all kinds of information available to us, just as our sighted counterparts, but we still are trying to figure out competitive ways of getting at and using this information, whether it's classroom access, or job site access. 
>> 
>> What concerns me is that over the years, unemployment among the blind hasn't seemed to go down, so the problem hasn't really been solved yet, in spite of our efforts. 
>> 
>> The way I look at it, though, is, there is always going to be that first day of discovery, whether small or great, that will further aid us in successful employment. 
>> 
>> Judy 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk 
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM 
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org 
>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus 
>> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind 
>> 
>> Dear Members, 
>> 
>> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic? 
>> 
>> Roanna Bacchus? 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> BlindTlk mailing list 
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> BlindTlk mailing list 
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:56:41 -0500
> From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> To: Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.21.1901141545460.23676 at panix1.panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> effective work beats tireless work every time.
> I'm curious as to the percentage of blind who took an aptitudes and
> interests test between High School and higher education and what success
> that cohort has had.  That was one part of how Vocational Rehabilitation
> helped me.  My problem before that test was I had no clue what my best
> career path was so the test I took clarified things and got me into the
> right direction.
> Maybe one strategy Vocational Rehabilitation could use would be to have
> clients tested then explain the results to them and only after all of
> that got done ask the client what career path they'd like to pursue.
> 
> I have been told time between education and employment is so long for
> some of the population that the population starts self-medicating with
> street drugs to drown the pain temporarily.  This would happen when
> vocational rehabilitation agencies back burner clients and minimize
> contact with them during their working process.
> Another factor of course is how a particular state decides to spend the
> money provided it for vocational rehabilitation.  If most of that money
> goes for agency employee conferences, there's not going to be much
> effective rehabilitation or habilitation happening.
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019, Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 14:35:17
>> From: Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>> 
>> Dear Members,
>> 
>> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic?
>> 
>> Roanna Bacchus??
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindTlk mailing list
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40panix.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:06:20 -0500
> From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> To: Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.21.1901141604510.23676 at panix1.panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> If you apply for another one of those jobs, please have nvda evaluated
> in addition to jaws.  It's possible nvda may be able to do what jaws
> can't and in that way maybe get you employed.
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019, Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:11:45
>> From: Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>> 
>> Hi Judy thanks for your message. I have been job hunting for three years. In 2017 I applied fol eight jobs and got rejected from every one of them. I applied to be a Communications Specialist with the Seminole County Sherriff's office. They determined that even with the use of Jaws I could not do the job.
>> 
>>> On Jan 14, 2019 3:03 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, this has been proven years ago, and it is a day by day education process.? The reason this is, that there are so few blind in comparison to other minority or disability groups, so we're some of the least understood.? This has always been the case.? Over the years, I have seen great strides in some areas, and technology has certainly helped this, but we still have a long way to go.
>>> 
>>> Back in the day, we didn't have to worry about competitive technology.? For example, any blind person who had learned touch typing could use a typewriter and correcting tape to fix mistakes.?
>>> 
>>> Blind mechanics could do their job without having to deal with a computer diagnostic screen they might not have access to.
>>> 
>>> We didn't have quiet cars, e-scooters, or obstructive vehicle-share issues or pop-up bus stops to deal with.
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, back then, the only way to get at printed material was to have it brailled, read, or recorded, once recordings were possible.
>>> 
>>> So, I think, now, in some ways, it is easier for blind people to make it, in other ways, harder.? The big plus now, is that we have all kinds of information available to us, just as our sighted counterparts, but we still are trying to figure out competitive ways of getting at and using this information, whether it's classroom access, or job site access.
>>> 
>>> What concerns me is that over the years, unemployment among the blind hasn't seemed to go down, so the problem hasn't really been solved yet, in spite of our efforts.
>>> 
>>> The way I look at it, though, is, there is always going to be that first day of discovery, whether small or great, that will further aid us in successful employment.
>>> 
>>> Judy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk
>>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus
>>> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>>> 
>>> Dear Members,
>>> 
>>> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic?
>>> 
>>> Roanna Bacchus?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindTlk mailing list
>>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindTlk mailing list
>>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindTlk mailing list
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40panix.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 13:07:12 -0800
> From: "Judy Jones" <sonshines59 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <000a01d4ac4d$1eea2e30$5cbe8a90$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> It might be very true their software would not be accessible, but on the otherhand, the reasons they had might not be valid either.  
> 
> When I was job hunting before I got the job from which I retired, I was interviewed by the small business owner, and he wanted to hire me, but I was told by my VR counselor that the software I would need was not accessible to Jaws.  Later I found out that someone had written sscripts for it, and that it, in fact, was accessible.  The counselor at that time didn't offer to bring in the AT state technologist, and I didn't know to ask for that assistance.
> 
> The job I ended up with was a much better job, but I would have enjoyed working for that business.
> 
> It's important to ensure that people aren't making these unilateral decisions based on lack of knowledge, and that something is truly not doable, and not just an opinion.
> 
> Judy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 12:12 PM
> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk
> Cc: Roanna Bacchus
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> 
> Hi Judy thanks for your message. I have been job hunting for three years. In 2017 I applied fol eight jobs and got rejected from every one of them. I applied to be a Communications Specialist with the Seminole County Sherriff's office. They determined that even with the use of Jaws I could not do the job.
> 
>> On Jan 14, 2019 3:03 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, this has been proven years ago, and it is a day by day education process.  The reason this is, that there are so few blind in comparison to other minority or disability groups, so we're some of the least understood.  This has always been the case.  Over the years, I have seen great strides in some areas, and technology has certainly helped this, but we still have a long way to go. 
>> 
>> Back in the day, we didn't have to worry about competitive technology.  For example, any blind person who had learned touch typing could use a typewriter and correcting tape to fix mistakes.  
>> 
>> Blind mechanics could do their job without having to deal with a computer diagnostic screen they might not have access to. 
>> 
>> We didn't have quiet cars, e-scooters, or obstructive vehicle-share issues or pop-up bus stops to deal with. 
>> 
>> On the other hand, back then, the only way to get at printed material was to have it brailled, read, or recorded, once recordings were possible. 
>> 
>> So, I think, now, in some ways, it is easier for blind people to make it, in other ways, harder.  The big plus now, is that we have all kinds of information available to us, just as our sighted counterparts, but we still are trying to figure out competitive ways of getting at and using this information, whether it's classroom access, or job site access. 
>> 
>> What concerns me is that over the years, unemployment among the blind hasn't seemed to go down, so the problem hasn't really been solved yet, in spite of our efforts. 
>> 
>> The way I look at it, though, is, there is always going to be that first day of discovery, whether small or great, that will further aid us in successful employment. 
>> 
>> Judy 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk 
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM 
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org 
>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus 
>> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind 
>> 
>> Dear Members, 
>> 
>> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic? 
>> 
>> Roanna Bacchus  
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> BlindTlk mailing list 
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> BlindTlk mailing list 
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindTlk mailing list
> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:35:16 -0500
> From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.21.1901141630420.23676 at panix1.panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> A caution about any scripts written by people who used to work for the
> screen reader corporation.  If all that's available is binaries and the
> source code isn't available you may as well see if you can find another
> job.  The reason is when jaws version gets updated, the source code is
> going to have to be rebuilt to get you a working binary that will work
> with the updated version of jaws.  I ran into that situation with oracle
> forms when I was working and the jaws update that was required to be
> installed on the machine I used made the binaries unuseable.  All
> FreedomScientific has for Oracle Forms is the binaries, the person who
> wrote the source code took it with him when his employment got
> terminated.
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019, Judy Jones via BlindTlk wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:07:12
>> From: Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Judy Jones <sonshines59 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>> 
>> It might be very true their software would not be accessible, but on the otherhand, the reasons they had might not be valid either.
>> 
>> When I was job hunting before I got the job from which I retired, I was interviewed by the small business owner, and he wanted to hire me, but I was told by my VR counselor that the software I would need was not accessible to Jaws.  Later I found out that someone had written sscripts for it, and that it, in fact, was accessible.  The counselor at that time didn't offer to bring in the AT state technologist, and I didn't know to ask for that assistance.
>> 
>> The job I ended up with was a much better job, but I would have enjoyed working for that business.
>> 
>> It's important to ensure that people aren't making these unilateral decisions based on lack of knowledge, and that something is truly not doable, and not just an opinion.
>> 
>> Judy
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 12:12 PM
>> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk
>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus
>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>> 
>> Hi Judy thanks for your message. I have been job hunting for three years. In 2017 I applied fol eight jobs and got rejected from every one of them. I applied to be a Communications Specialist with the Seminole County Sherriff's office. They determined that even with the use of Jaws I could not do the job.
>> 
>>> On Jan 14, 2019 3:03 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, this has been proven years ago, and it is a day by day education process.  The reason this is, that there are so few blind in comparison to other minority or disability groups, so we're some of the least understood.  This has always been the case.  Over the years, I have seen great strides in some areas, and technology has certainly helped this, but we still have a long way to go.
>>> 
>>> Back in the day, we didn't have to worry about competitive technology.  For example, any blind person who had learned touch typing could use a typewriter and correcting tape to fix mistakes.
>>> 
>>> Blind mechanics could do their job without having to deal with a computer diagnostic screen they might not have access to.
>>> 
>>> We didn't have quiet cars, e-scooters, or obstructive vehicle-share issues or pop-up bus stops to deal with.
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, back then, the only way to get at printed material was to have it brailled, read, or recorded, once recordings were possible.
>>> 
>>> So, I think, now, in some ways, it is easier for blind people to make it, in other ways, harder.  The big plus now, is that we have all kinds of information available to us, just as our sighted counterparts, but we still are trying to figure out competitive ways of getting at and using this information, whether it's classroom access, or job site access.
>>> 
>>> What concerns me is that over the years, unemployment among the blind hasn't seemed to go down, so the problem hasn't really been solved yet, in spite of our efforts.
>>> 
>>> The way I look at it, though, is, there is always going to be that first day of discovery, whether small or great, that will further aid us in successful employment.
>>> 
>>> Judy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk
>>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus
>>> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>>> 
>>> Dear Members,
>>> 
>>> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your thoughts on this topic?
>>> 
>>> Roanna Bacchus
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindTlk mailing list
>>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindTlk mailing list
>>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindTlk mailing list
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindTlk mailing list
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindTlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40panix.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 14:16:57 -0800
> From: "Judy Jones" <sonshines59 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> Message-ID: <000f01d4ac56$dd41f800$97c5e800$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Very true!
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Judy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jude
> DaShiell via BlindTlk
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 1:06 PM
> To: Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk
> Cc: Jude DaShiell
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
> 
> If you apply for another one of those jobs, please have nvda evaluated
> in addition to jaws.  It's possible nvda may be able to do what jaws
> can't and in that way maybe get you employed.
> 
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019, Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:11:45
>> From: Roanna Bacchus via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>> 
>> Hi Judy thanks for your message. I have been job hunting for three years.
> In 2017 I applied fol eight jobs and got rejected from every one of them. I
> applied to be a Communications Specialist with the Seminole County
> Sherriff's office. They determined that even with the use of Jaws I could
> not do the job.
>> 
>> On Jan 14, 2019 3:03 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, this has been proven years ago, and it is a day by day education
> process.? The reason this is, that there are so few blind in comparison to
> other minority or disability groups, so we're some of the least understood.?
> This has always been the case.? Over the years, I have seen great strides in
> some areas, and technology has certainly helped this, but we still have a
> long way to go.
>>> 
>>> Back in the day, we didn't have to worry about competitive technology.?
> For example, any blind person who had learned touch typing could use a
> typewriter and correcting tape to fix mistakes.?
>>> 
>>> Blind mechanics could do their job without having to deal with a
> computer diagnostic screen they might not have access to.
>>> 
>>> We didn't have quiet cars, e-scooters, or obstructive vehicle-share
> issues or pop-up bus stops to deal with.
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, back then, the only way to get at printed material
> was to have it brailled, read, or recorded, once recordings were possible.
>>> 
>>> So, I think, now, in some ways, it is easier for blind people to make
> it, in other ways, harder.? The big plus now, is that we have all kinds of
> information available to us, just as our sighted counterparts, but we still
> are trying to figure out competitive ways of getting at and using this
> information, whether it's classroom access, or job site access.
>>> 
>>> What concerns me is that over the years, unemployment among the blind
> hasn't seemed to go down, so the problem hasn't really been solved yet, in
> spite of our efforts.
>>> 
>>> The way I look at it, though, is, there is always going to be that first
> day of discovery, whether small or great, that will further aid us in
> successful employment.
>>> 
>>> Judy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna
> Bacchus via BlindTlk
>>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:35 AM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Roanna Bacchus
>>> Subject: [BlindTlk] The Unemployment Rate of The Blind
>>> 
>>> Dear Members,
>>> 
>>> Today I was reading a report about the employment outcome for the blind
> and the Vocational Rehabilitation system. Factors such as assistive
> technology, braille, Orientation and mobility, and independent living all
> contribute to the blind being able to attain employment. Vocational
> Rehabilitation counselors work tirelessly to provide employment
> opportunities for their clients. Employment Placement Specialists also
> provide job opportunities for blind clients who receive Vocational
> Rehabilitation services. I think that the low expectations of others have
> contributed to the low unemployment rate of the blind. What are your
> thoughts on this topic?
>>> 
>>> Roanna Bacchus?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindTlk mailing list
>>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindTlk:
>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.co
> m
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindTlk mailing list
>>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindTlk:
>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.co
> m
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindTlk mailing list
>> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindTlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40panix.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindTlk mailing list
> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindTlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sonshines59%40gmail.co
> m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindTlk mailing list
> BlindTlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of BlindTlk Digest, Vol 151, Issue 9
> ****************************************

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