[BlindTlk] Cooking Without Looking was Braille books in old old

Sun Sep 8 19:45:24 UTC 2019

The two that did are The Braille Cookbook, and Evelyn Lee's Cookbook.

Judy

“Embrace each day with His mercies and blessings.”

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via BlindTlk
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2019 10:56 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Pamela Dominguez
Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Cooking Without Looking was Braille books in old old

Okay.  Well, in that case, I don't know of any books that start out with 
that basic a knowledge like that.  Pam.

-----Original Message----- 
From: kelby carlson via BlindTlk
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2019 1:29 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: kelby carlson
Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Cooking Without Looking was Braille books in old old

I was able to read some of this book through BARD. While the recipes are 
perfectly understandable, it seems to require some knowledge already. For 
example, someone like me just starting out really needs basic explanations 
of techniques like cutting, stirring, chopping, etc that this book doesn't 
appear to have. I have looked for resources that go into those things but 
haven't found much; my wife is sighted, and very helpful, , it's often hard 
to know how to adapt techniques without any instruction.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> 
> wrote:
>
> Yes, totally agreed and great for reading manuals with a lot of diagrams 
> where you need to extract the text.
>
> Differently, I also have a set of reversible place mats, flower pattern on 
> one side, seed pattern on the other, and I first matched them up with the 
> optacon, them marked them accordingly.
>
>
> ----- Original Message-----
> From: Peggy via BlindTlk
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Date: Thursday, September 05, 2019 06:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
>
> I use my Optacon all the time. I find it much faster then any of the 
> scanner apps and I also use it for reading charted knit and crochet 
> patterns, something that a scanner would never be able to do. I like the 
> Optacon Ii, especially its smaller size and the fact that the battery 
> wasn't built in to the unit.
>
> Peggy and Dixie Marie
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 5, 2019, at 6:38 PM, David Andrews via BlindTlk wrote:
> >
> > Steve: I believe their were less pins in the array for the Optacon 2, to 
> > save money.
> >
> > I had an original Optacon, and used to use it, but was never very fast. 
> > And ... since I wasn't fast, I didn't use it much.
> >
> > There were some people who became very good with it -- but most of us 
> > weren't fast enough to make it useful.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > At 09:20 AM 9/4/2019, you wrote:
> >> Ericka,
> >>
> >> I am another Optacon user, and I find it frustrating that no current 
> >> technology lets us do the same thing as an Optacon did. However, I 
> >> think we have to be careful not to glorify it too much. There were many 
> >> people who just couldn't get the hang of using it. One moved a camera 
> >> with the right hand and read with the left hand which meant that there 
> >> was some coordination needed. Also, the resolution of the display was 
> >> much higher than what one sees on the braille display. There were 
> >> therefore people who could read braille but whose fingers had trouble 
> >> reading with an Optacon. Reading speed was also an issue. There were 
> >> quite a few people who read up to 100 words per minute. I am not aware 
> >> of anybody who read much faster than that. Those whom I knew that read 
> >> 100 words per minute with an Optacon were also very fast braille 
> >> readers, reading probably three times that rate in braille. I tended to 
> >> read for detail and my reading speed was not that good. Also, one 
> >> didn't just buy the unit and read. There was a definite learning curve, 
> >> and one really had to commit to reading a significant amount each day 
> >> to achieve a maximum reading speed. It also meant that many of us had 
> >> to learn print letters and symbols as well. Telesensory and other 
> >> agencies offered training programs to get one started that lasted two 
> >> weeks or so. This training was not cheap and was a significant addition 
> >> to the price.
> >>
> >> In an effort to move toward making a more portable model and to make it 
> >> less expensive, Telesensory developed the Optacon II which used some 
> >> off-the-shelf parts that were custom made for the original optacon. It 
> >> also used some digital technology. However, those of us who used the 
> >> new optacon found that the images seemed less sharp than on the 
> >> original optacon. I don't know why that was. That was disappointing, 
> >> and it probably hurt sales some. One would think that with today's 
> >> technology that such a problem probably would be nonexistent.
> >>
> >> Finally, Telesensory took the marketing approach that the Optacon could 
> >> replace braille and pushed some to get it into the hands of young blind 
> >> kids in schools. Given that braille is often read more quickly by 
> >> people who learn it at a young age, the idea that a young child could 
> >> perhaps learn to read with an Optacon much faster was probably 
> >> justifiable, but many of us thought that it was risky for kids to spend 
> >> a lot of time learning the Optacon rather than learning braille. I 
> >> think all of these things caused the Optacon to disappear as a product.
> >>
> >> I've seen projects to build a new Optacon, but nothing solid seems to 
> >> ever happen with those projects. I must also say that even at the time, 
> >> I wondered how we would have handled the success of the Optacon to see 
> >> our ability to read controlled by a single company, at the expense of 
> >> braille. It never came to that, but it was not beyond the realm of 
> >> possibility if faster reading speeds could have been achieved at the 
> >> expense of learning braille.
> >>
> >> Also, the optacon did not provide us with a more convenient way to 
> >> write. There was an attachment that one could by that mounted the 
> >> optacon camera on certain typewriters. The attachment allowed one to 
> >> see the character that was being typed allowing one to make more 
> >> reliable corrections. However, even portable typewriters of the day 
> >> were not that small.
> >>
> >> Another attachment allowed one to use the Optacon to read an electronic 
> >> calculator. Remember, they didn't talk until 1975 or so and the Optacon 
> >> was available slightly before that time, and the first talking 
> >> calculators were expensive. Yet another attachment could be used to 
> >> read computer screens. At that time, talking computers were also not 
> >> available.
> >>
> >> Both the availability of talking calculators and computers that 
> >> supported braille and speech cut into the value of these additional 
> >> attachments. In those cases, the Optacon really didn't add value over 
> >> the option of braille and speech. That probably also cut into the 
> >> market for the Optacon.
> >>
> >> Still, I have a much better sense of how print looks and the 
> >> differences between different fonts and such because of the Optacon. 
> >> There are still times when I find I can read something that none of the 
> >> OCR approaches reads, and I don't always know why. Still, more often 
> >> than not, I tend to try K-1000, Seeing-AI, or VoiceDream Scanner first 
> >> when reading something because if they succeed they are faster, and 
> >> over the years the KNFB reader has been very useful.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Steve Jacobson
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: BlindTlk On Behalf Of Ericka via BlindTlk
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2019 7:52 AM
> >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> Cc: Ericka
> >> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >>
> >> Why didn't they just make a more portable model rather than abandon 
> >> them? I remember hearing that the first K- NFB type reading things were 
> >> in the late 70s. My husband uses Kurzweil 1000 on his computer. I don't 
> >> know how to use it. I use Seeing AI mostly. For the bottles, we both 
> >> have a script to talk station.
> >>
> >> Ericka Nelson
> >>
> >> > On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:45 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Yes, they are great, and individuals still sell them, and there are 
> >> > people who still repair them, so they are alive and well.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, you are actually reading print with this mechanical device. All 
> >> > this before OCR technology. The blind person is the brains, and you 
> >> > are actually reading what a sighted person would see.
> >> >
> >> > You can read round medicine bottles and things that OCR can't touch.
> >> >
> >> > Judy
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> > Ericka via BlindTlk
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 7:09 PM
> >> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> > Cc: Ericka
> >> > Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >> >
> >> > I saw one once but never got to use it. That was before I knew any 
> >> > braille at all. From what I understand it raised the printer 
> >> > somethings so you can read it. That would make sense Judy that you 
> >> > would understand. What do people do when they're ancient up to cons 
> >> > die? You can't replace them and I bet you can't fix them too easily 
> >> > either. I heard they were pretty cool.
> >> >
> >> > Ericka Nelson
> >> >
> >> >> On Sep 3, 2019, at 8:00 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> It makes verymuch sense to those of us that use an optacon.
> >> >>
> >> >> Judy
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> >> Ericka via BlindTlk
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:13 PM
> >> >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> >> Cc: Ericka
> >> >> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I think it makes less sense to people who have never seen print done 
> >> >> to those of us who could reprint at one time in our lives. It makes 
> >> >> sense to let you know whether something is in bold or not. And if 
> >> >> you are formatting something to be printed and look good for the 
> >> >> side of the world it's important as well. The rest of the world 
> >> >> centers titles a lot of times like on a resume for example. I do 
> >> >> think it's stupid that they took some signs away. Braille is a lot 
> >> >> of extra pages. Someone told me once that it takes three braille 
> >> >> pages to equal the information one printed page and that's not 
> >> >> including spacing such as between paragraphs etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think you guys realize how different print is from braille. 
> >> >> And I wouldn't expect any person who was born blind and I only read 
> >> >> braille to understand. Just be nice to those of us who can.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ericka Nelson
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Jesse Johnson via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I agree this new EB makes no sense at all
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:37 PM, Pamela Dominguez via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I know we can't do anything about it. I can read it somewhat 
> >> >>>> better, depending on how much different stuff there is in it. If 
> >> >>>> it's just regular text, it's okay. But I don't see any reason to 
> >> >>>> ever write it, myself. I just don't think I will be put in a 
> >> >>>> situation where that is necessary. Pam.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Hyde, David W. (ESC) via BlindTlk
> >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 11:16 AM
> >> >>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> >>>> Cc: Hyde, David W. (ESC)
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Well, whether we like it or not, the train has left the station. I 
> >> >>>> can read UEB better than I can write it. Sixty years of doing it 
> >> >>>> one way doesn't change in a moment. I still put words together, 
> >> >>>> use signs that have gone away, and when reading, I come to a full 
> >> >>>> stop when I see a, followed by tion.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>>> From: BlindTlk On Behalf Of Jesse
> >> >>>> Johnson via BlindTlk
> >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:11 AM
> >> >>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> >>>> Cc: Jesse Johnson
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I think of the old saying if it's not broke don't fix it they 
> >> >>>> broke
> >> >>>> it by trying to fix it
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:07 AM, Ericka via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> There are words that you can't combine together anymore like of 
> >> >>>>> the house to have a space between it. The sign for by like "by 
> >> >>>>> the seaside or byline Hass to be spelled out now.
> >> >>>>> Trust me, I've tried to read the stuff and I can't. It's too 
> >> >>>>> confusing. Punctuation changed a lot by the way. The simple.?, 
> >> >>>>> Etc. didn't but have you looked at those parenthesis? Yeah they 
> >> >>>>> look a lot more like print so it's easy for me to remember how to 
> >> >>>>> read.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Ericka Nelson
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 12:13 AM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> In US Braille:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Dropped d at the beginning of a word is letters dis.
> >> >>>>>> In the middle is a double-d as in "daddy."
> >> >>>>>> At the end is a period.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Dropped h at beginning is a open-quote In middle, not used in
> >> >>>>>> literary braille.
> >> >>>>>> At the end, a question-mark.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Dropped F:
> >> >>>>>> At beginning is the word "to."
> >> >>>>>> In the middle is a double-f.
> >> >>>>>> At the end is an exclamation point.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> These things aren't that much different in UEB, although some of 
> >> >>>>>> the rules did change for UEB.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Judy
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>>>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> >>>>>> Ericka via BlindTlk
> >> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 7:20 PM
> >> >>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> >>>>>> Cc: Ericka
> >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Judy, and I learn braille as a child or had no residual vision I 
> >> >>>>>> probably could. However I find the US braille difficult. Dropped 
> >> >>>>>> F, drop D and dropped H. is in weird places main something 
> >> >>>>>> depending on where they are. That is confusing! I read faster in 
> >> >>>>>> the new braille. I have children's books and some religious 
> >> >>>>>> things for the taking.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Ericka Nelson
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Hi, Erika,
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Actually, if you can do UEB braille, you can also read US. 
> >> >>>>>>> There are differences in the punctuation and numbers 
> >> >>>>>>> formatting, but the numbers and letters themselves are all the 
> >> >>>>>>> same. Most of the contractions are the same, they have done 
> >> >>>>>>> away with some of them, but you will never find a strange 
> >> >>>>>>> formation of dots you can't recognize.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I took the UEB course, just to know what it is like, and 
> >> >>>>>>> although I prefer US braille, I can read the UEB.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Judy
> >> >>>>>>> "Embrace the day with its mercies and blessings."
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>>>>>> From: BlindTlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
> >> >>>>>>> Of
> >> >>>>>>> Ericka via BlindTlk
> >> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 9:46 AM
> >> >>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> >>>>>>> Cc: Ericka
> >> >>>>>>> Subject: [BlindTlk] Braille books in old old
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I'm wondering what people are doing with braille books that are 
> >> >>>>>>> in that were produced before the 2015 change over to UEB. I 
> >> >>>>>>> have braille books that I really don't want to toss, but I 
> >> >>>>>>> can't read them well enough in the pre-2015 braille to justify 
> >> >>>>>>> keeping. I'm willing to send them overseas or free matter them 
> >> >>>>>>> to someone who can't send them overseas. Let me know.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Ericka Nelson
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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