[BlindTlk] You are a fall risk because you are blind

Sat Sep 2 21:41:07 UTC 2023

This is a very interesting discussion! I wonder if any of you who have contributed so far listen to Jonathan Mosen's podcast Living Blindfully? It's a two-hour show which discusses just about anything and everything having to do with blindness and low vision. Listeners can contribute to the show by either calling in or sending emails, which Jonathan (who is totally blind himself) will share on the podcast each week. To my knowledge, this topic has never been discussed on his show as far as I've listened to it.

Thankfully I've never had any of these things happen to me myself, although I'd be very curious what he and other listeners think about this. Again, if any of you do happen to listen to the Living Blindfully podcast, feel free to send in your contributions to Jonathan.

Again, while I've personally never outright been considered a "fall risk" by anyone (not yet, anyway), I do think the examples and experiences people have shared are egregious. It's most likely abelism on the part of the person/people involved more or less. These experiences also brought me back to airplanes, where the general consensus is that there should be a lot of restrictions placed on blind plane travelers. Namely, that all blind people should preboard the plane (precisely because we'd be at risk if we don't), that we should sit in the front rows so we can be more easily supervised by the flight attendants, and finally that we should be the last to disembark.

When I travel by myself and domestically, I try to fly with Southwest Airlines whenever possible, because they seem to have a lot of experience with blind travelers, and as such are mostly (if not completely) very receptive to my requests when I inform them what I want/need. I personally don't like any of the stereotypical perceptions ("restrictions") of blind plane travelers at all, and as such try to speak up against them as much as I can. While I do use meet and assist to get from the check-in desk to my gate, I usually don't like to preboard because I find it rather unnecessary as a cane traveler. I also taught myself how to get up and down the jetway on my own, so don't really need help with that either.

I also prefer to sit in the back of the plane than the front, because I can just stow my carry-on bag underneath the seat in front of me, and thus have easy access to it whenever I want it after takeoff (unlike the front where you absolutely must stow your bag in the overhead bin). The flight attendants and passengers also seem to be less pushy and keep more to themselves in the back. This is also why I don't like to let the airline know in advance that I'm totally blind, and prefer to just ask for assistance when I arrive at the airport, because you never know if the airline is going to take advantage of you by assigning you somewhere you might not want to sit.

Thankfully, this is easier to come by with Southwest thanks to their open seating policy. I haven't yet traveled internationally on my own yet (although I'd like to one day since my mother is originally from France and pretty much all my relatives live there), and so I'm not really sure what traveling as a blind person outtide the country is like).

Again, like others have mentioned before me, I think all these experiences just go to show that we need to continue to advocate for ourselves, and speak up against the abelism that is exceedingly rampant in our society.

Sami   On Sep 2, 2023 4:03 PM, kevin SiscoKevin via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> She tried to spread the story around that I jumped.
>
> Kevin
>
> My web3.0 project, "Chainpages", in my own words:
>
> https://upfiles.com/4xnX
>
> On 9/2/2023 12:33 PM, Ericka via BlindTlk wrote:
> > What a rotten teacher! I hope she felt guilty.
> >
> > Ericka Nelson
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 2, 2023, at 1:45 PM, kevin SiscoKevin via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> That really hit home.  I was in a bad school system many years ago.  One of the teachers took away my cane and I did fall down the stairs.  She made me a fall risk and I sometimes flash back to that but not as often thank goodness.
> >>
> >> Kevin
> >>
> >> My web3.0 project, "Chainpages", in my own words:
> >>
> >> https://upfiles.com/4xnX
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 9/2/2023 11:04 AM, Jody ianuzzi via BlindTlk wrote:
> >>> All courses the insurance companies and their filling of liability. That's the problem! Let's exclude blind people from society completely and then they won't be a liability at all! Where can it end?
> >>>
> >>> Or how about the blind child that is an allowed to use white cane in school because they might hurt someone by swinging it around. It's OK if the kid falls down the stairs.
> >>>
> >>> This is really scary!
> >>>
> >>> JODY
> >>>
> >>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS  Erik Weihenmayer
> >>>
> >>>>> On Sep 2, 2023, at 12:22 PM, Laz via BlindTlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>> Actually it's not the fault of the doctors or nurses despite their
> >>>> unawareness or not; it's an insurance thing. I found this out the last time
> >>>> I was in the hospital a few years ago, having my toe amputated. The first
> >>>> time I tried to use the bathroom, I found myself standing on a very bouncy
> >>>> pad on the floor which covered quite a large area. I asked the nurses and
> >>>> doctors about it and found out it was because the insurance company has
> >>>> blind people on the list of fall risks and to cover their asses, the
> >>>> hospital has to do whatever it takes to limit their liability
> >>>> possibilities. They would not remove the pad. I told them that the pad
> >>>> irself increased my risk of falling as it made me very unstable when trying
> >>>> to walk, and they responded that I should just call the nurse if I needed
> >>>> to use the bathroom and she would help me get there safely. I told them
> >>>> that if I went down, there was no way she would be able to stop me and
> >>>> would likely result in two people being at risk of falling. It didn't make
> >>>> any difference. The pad remained and I just learned to balance on it even
> >>>> after my toe had been amputated and I had to be very careful how I walked
> >>>> to avoid hurting it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Laz
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 12:07 PM Jody ianuzzi via BlindTlk <
> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is my point exactly. We were all lumped together in one category They
> >>>>> never bother to get to know us as individuals I like the good old days when
> >>>>> a doctor spent more time talking with you than they did entering
> >>>>> information into the computer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JODY
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS
> >>>>> Erik Weihenmayer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 2, 2023, at 11:55 AM, Jude DaShiell via BlindTlk <
> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> In the southern states those hunting turkeys with shotguns get sent to
> >>>>>> Lions World International to rehabilitate once they join the blind club.
> >>>>>> These people have not yet adjusted to blindness and are at a higher fall
> >>>>>> risk.  Some elderly people loose their sight and do not go through
> >>>>>> adjustment to blindness programs and for as long as they're alive remain
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> fall risk.  Medical and social workers having looked at you before
> >>>>> reading
> >>>>>> your chart react more toward safety for those in their care.  If the
> >>>>>> information on your chart with regard to blindness isn't accurate for
> >>>>>> whatever reason then even if those  workers look at your chart they'll
> >>>>> not
> >>>>>> be correctly informed either.  It wasn't until after 2013 and my
> >>>>>> retirement I learned what really caused my blindness and that I had never
> >>>>>> seen anything.  Doctors and parents earlier weren't completely truthful
> >>>>>> with themselves or me which is why I learned the real diagnosis as late
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>> I did.  By the way, I was able to give that information to 23andme which
> >>>>>> may help genetic research.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in
> >>>>>> defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that
> >>>>>> order." Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Sep 2023, The Braille Cat via BlindTlk wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Man?? These folks with their total inability to think outside of the
> >>>>> Box really make me tired! I mean it's not like we went blind five minutes
> >>>>> ago now is it??
> >>>>>>> Jack and Bex
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Pamela Dominguez via BlindTlk <
> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> It might be different now, but the last time I was hospitalized in
> >>>>> 2012, I got up when I wanted to, and went and used the bathroom and
> >>>>> whatever.  I didn’t even know they didn’t want me to until I was almost
> >>>>> ready to go home.  But the reason I say it might be different now is, I go
> >>>>> to see my doctor in a hospital-type setting, and I complained that the
> >>>>> security guard didn’t want me to practically move, not to go out by myself
> >>>>> to get my ride, not to come down from the other floor myself, not anything,
> >>>>> and everybody I complained to said that he was doing the right thing,
> >>>>> because he was looking out for my safety because I can’t see.
> >>>>> Access-a-ride wants you outside ten minutes before the ride, and it didn’t
> >>>>> matter what I said, he would not let me.  He said they had to come in and
> >>>>> get me.  Pam.
> >>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Mama Otter via BlindTlk
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 8:03 PM
> >>>>>>> To: Judy Jones via BlindTlk
> >>>>>>> Cc: Mama Otter
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindTlk] You are a fall risk because you are blind
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello. I can attest to this. I have also been totally blind since birth.
> >>>>>>> I have been hospitalized 3 times this year and all 3 times was told I
> >>>>>>> could not get out of bed by myself because I was blind and I was a big
> >>>>>>> fall risk. This was infuriating and degrading to say the least. I
> >>>>>>> complained to various doctors and nurses with no result. So it is
> >>>>>>> definitely rampant among medical professionals which is wrong in my
> >>>>>>> opinion. I do have balance issues but they are not related to my sight
> >>>>>>> or lack thereof and I do know how to compensate for them and have not
> >>>>>>> fallen ever in my home. And believe me with 2 cats underfoot there are
> >>>>>>> enough fall risks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Charlotte
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 9/1/2023 6:35 PM, Judy Jones via BlindTlk wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi, Jody,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No, I haven't gotten that, at this point.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In fact, the PT for my torn meniscus stated that blindness doesn't
> >>>>> affect
> >>>>>>>> my balance, as it has been a life-long condition, but thought I might
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> something vistibular going on since I also have been in Covid
> >>>>> long-haul.
> >>>>>>>> His respect for you should have run up a notch when you mentioned your
> >>>>>>>> martial arts expertise hahahaha.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It may either be time to shop for a new doc, or start him on an
> >>>>> "education"
> >>>>>>>> program.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Judy
> >>>>>>>> sent from my Samsung Galaxy phone
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:25 PM Jody ianuzzi via BlindTlk <
> >>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The last time I went to see my doctor he really made me angry. He
> >>>>> told me
> >>>>>>>>> that he was concerned that I might fall because of my visual
> >>>>> impairment.  I
> >>>>>>>>> said that if I just lost my site that there would be a period of
> >>>>> adjustment
> >>>>>>>>> where I would have to learn alternative techniques to be more
> >>>>> confident.  I
> >>>>>>>>> told him that I have  been blind my entire life  I had no more chance
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> falling than he did and that since I started learning the martial
> >>>>> arts 52
> >>>>>>>>> years ago, I could probably teach him how to fall without getting
> >>>>> hurt!
> >>>>>>>>> Since this happened I have relayed the story to many people have told
> >>>>> me
> >>>>>>>>> that they are also considered a fall risk by medical professionals.
> >>>>> So is
> >>>>>>>>> this a new protocol? Are we all incompetent at walking without having
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Since this happened I have relayed the story to many people who have
> >>>>> told
> >>>>>>>>> me that they are also considered a fall risk by medical
> >>>>> professionals. So
> >>>>>>>>> is this a new protocol? Are we all incompetent at walking without
> >>>>> having to
> >>>>>>>>> worry about falling?  I think it is so much of a coincidence that I
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> heard the story from many places around the country. I think I think
> >>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>> really have to educate the medical profession as well as everyone
> >>>>> else!
> >>>>>>>>> JODY
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS
> >>>>>>>>> Erik Weihenmayer
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Raul Gallegos - NAGDU via BlindTlk <
> >>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Mark. That’s a new one for sure.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On a different but slightly related note, I went on a cruise earlier
> >>>>>>>>> this year.
> >>>>>>>>>> Upon my re-entry back onboard the ship after indulging a nice and
> >>>>> long
> >>>>>>>>> day of sun and adult beverages, the security folks wanted to check my
> >>>>> cane
> >>>>>>>>> before letting me on the ship. I politely declined and told the nice
> >>>>>>>>> security person that my cane posed no threat and that I could just
> >>>>> walk
> >>>>>>>>> through the gate and that I have done this many times. He was rather
> >>>>>>>>> insistent, however. So, the compromise was to let me walk through,
> >>>>> then
> >>>>>>>>> they would check the cane anyway. Considering I was tired, and a
> >>>>> little,
> >>>>>>>>> well, happy, and I didn’t want my good mood to be ruined, I let the
> >>>>>>>>> security folks check my cane after I walked through. Here is where the
> >>>>>>>>> funny part comes in.
> >>>>>>>>>> As I am standing in front of the nice security person while my cane
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>> getting checked for contraband, he puts his hands under mine and
> >>>>> tells me
> >>>>>>>>> that it is all going to be okay, and I can just lean forward on him,
> >>>>> and he
> >>>>>>>>> will make sure I do not fall. I instantly figured out that he honestly
> >>>>>>>>> thought my cane was for balance, not guiding. Instead of educating him
> >>>>>>>>> further, I grabbed his hands and started dancing with him. We twirled
> >>>>>>>>> around a few times, and as we danced, I educated him that my balance
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>> better than fine, and that my cane made a great dance partner when my
> >>>>> wife
> >>>>>>>>> was not around and when my cane wasn’t doing its real job of guiding
> >>>>> me.
> >>>>>>>>>> In the end, it was a funny time, and hopefully, this nice security
> >>>>>>>>> cruise ship person received a little education in a positive way.
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Raul Gallegos
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> From: nFB-Talk <nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mark
> >>>>> Tardif
> >>>>>>>>> via nFB-Talk
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 5:25 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Mark Tardif <markspark at roadrunner.com>; NFB of Florida Internet
> >>>>>>>>> Mailing List <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; NFB Talk Mailing List <
> >>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [NFB-Talk] Strange Stuff
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Alright, friends.  I’m going to tell you something that will either
> >>>>>>>>> leave you laughing or crying, and it is to demonstrate that no matter
> >>>>> how
> >>>>>>>>> well educated you are, if you are not familiar with blindness, well,
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>> can still come across as, to put it politely, not the brightest light
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> the room.  The other day I saw a doctor I had never met before.  He
> >>>>> had
> >>>>>>>>> never spoken with someone who was born blind, and I suspect he had
> >>>>> never
> >>>>>>>>> spoken with any blind person.  Anyway, he saw my long white cane and,
> >>>>> get
> >>>>>>>>> this, asked if this was my “eye stick.”  Yes, that was the term he
> >>>>> actually
> >>>>>>>>> used, “eye stick.”  I wasn’t sure whether to laugh or to just moan
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>> sadness, but one does need to remember manners in this situation, so
> >>>>> I told
> >>>>>>>>> him that we call it a long white cane and told him what it was for.
> >>>>> He
> >>>>>>>>> actually asked a number of good questions about blindness, which I
> >>>>> thought
> >>>>>>>>> was good, but it was clear that he needed much educating.  He seemed
> >>>>>>>>> surprised I can actually walk around town independently.  I guess we
> >>>>> have a
> >>>>>>>>> lot of work to do, still, to put it mildly.  Also, I must say that
> >>>>> while
> >>>>>>>>> people up here are often extremely nice and courteous, they seem to
> >>>>> pride
> >>>>>>>>> themselves on being quite insular, even more than the rest of Maine,
> >>>>> which
> >>>>>>>>> is my state incidentally.  I say that because along with the term “eye
> >>>>>>>>> stick,” I’ve often heard some very strange and, frankly, primitive
> >>>>> ideas
> >>>>>>>>> that I won’t actually go into here, but I do often think that holds
> >>>>> us back
> >>>>>>>>> in a lot of ways.  Anyway, I just thought I would share that bit of
> >>>>>>>>> strangeness.
> >>>>>>>>>> Mark Tardif
> >>>>>>>>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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