[blparent] it somces closer

Wed Dec 16 17:53:44 UTC 2009

I have to agree about the schools' ability to help. I have been amazed at 
the lack of insight my school has been able to provide regarding being a dog 
user and being a parent of a young child. E.g., when I asked for tips on 
traveling with a baby and a dog on an airplane, I was met with baffled 
silence... It's as though no one has ever done these things before, and I 
really feel that this is a short coming where the schools are concerned. I 
also talked with them about the need to clarify things to their grads. E.g., 
they will often deny a potential student who is either pregnant, or who has 
a very young child. That makes sense to me now that I have a baby, because I 
understand now how hard it would be to make a new match work, but I think 
they really need to provide a detailed explaination of their reasoning when 
this happens. For instance, brining up the challenge of keeping a new dog on 
leash while carrying your four month old baby around. Implementing a strict 
schedule for feeding, watering, and relieving when you have a child with no 
schedule. Getting out to do regular workouts with your dog when you are 
recovering from labor and delivery, etc., etc.

Dena

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer

> The schools can and do help, but don't equate helping with fixing the
> problem/issues.
> The school can't step in to give your kid a bath or supervise bath time
> if it takes longer then normal. The school can't clean up vomit when
> your kid throws up meaning that park time gets delayed. The school can't
> watch your kid so you can get a couple extra hours of sleep, and can't
> take the dog out if you've just settled your kid after a rough night and
> all you want to do is crawl back into bed yourself.
> The school can advise on overall procedure, but can't ensure that you
> implement it or that you have the desire to implement it.
> My dog was barely three when I had my daughter. She wanted and needed
> and deserved more then I was able to give her.
> Michael, you can certainly use a dog, but both you and your partner will
> need to be committed to that being what you are going to do. If you
> aren't, or she isn't, or circumstances happen beyond your control, then
> that's fine too. Give it a try if you are so inclined, but don't forcea
> fit either. You can always get another dog when your child is older/out
> of the house.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>
> Dena, you wrote a lot of what I was thinking but didn't take the time to
> put
> into words.  Thank you.  I love my guide dog, but she doesn't get nearly
> as
> much work as she used to when I was commuting, pre-baby, and taking a
> lot of
> buses and such.  Ballad is eight years old, so she's been okay with
> slowing
> down, but I won't get another guide when she retires.  At least not till
>
> Sarah is closer to school age.
>
> The other thing I want to reinforce, is that it takes time and patience
> to
> teach a toddler how to interact with a dog.  I'm always reinforcing "Pet
>
> Ballad nice" and "Be gentle" over and over again, and lately, I'm having
> to
> stop Sarah from taking Ballad's toys.
>
>
> Good luck with anything you decide, and the best advice I can give is,
> be in
> touch with your school.  Guide dog handlers have become parents many
> times
> before, and the school should be able to help you with any issues that
> come
> up.
>
> Take care.
>
> Jo Elizabeth
>
> Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always
> glorify
> the hunters.--African Proverb
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Dena Wainwright" <dena at envogueaccess.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:18 PM
> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>
>> This is a very difficult issue, and there is no right or wrong answer.
>>
>> Mike, I'm not sure where your dog comes from, but before I had Elise I
> had
>> a trainer from GDB visit me to teach me the proper way to pull the
>> stroller and work a dog. While she was here, I asked her about this
> exact
>> thing - how to introduce my daughter and my dog, and how to deal with
>> potential issues before they happened.
>>
>> What she told me, is that the biggest problems occur when people get
> all
>> freaked out about the dog having access to the new baby. They banish
> the
>> dog to another part of the house, scold the dog for showing interest
> in
>> the baby, and before they know it, they have a very jealous,
>> displaced-feeling dog. Obviously dogs react differently in such a case
> -
>> perhaps acting up in the house, perhaps refusing to work, perhaps
> acting
>> aggressively to the object (baby) that has displaced them from their
> pack.
>>
>> Based on her advice, we did the following...
>>
>> We left the door to what would be Elise's room open so the dogs could
>> wander in whenever they wanted. They were allowed to sniff the crib,
>> carseat, boxes of diapers - whatever we had in there at any given
> time.
>>
>> When I had Elise, I had my mom (who was staying with our dogs while I
> was
>> in the hospital) bring home a blanket I had wrapped her up in. She
> just
>> dropped it in the middle of the living room floor, and let the dogs
> sniff
>> at it whenever they wanted. That way, when we brought Elise home, they
>
>> already had her scent
>>
>> . The other thing we did, is introduced the dogs to her one at a time.
>
>> Jason held the baby on his lap, and I brought each dog over to them on
>
>> leash. The dogs were allowed to sniff her head, lick her hands, etc.
> Hands
>> can be washed down with baby wipes afterward, but that first chance at
> an
>> introduction cannot be re-done.
>>
>> In the early weeks home, we had a Moses basket for Elise. It's
> basically a
>> light-weight wicker basket that could be carried from room to room.
> This
>> allowed us to place her on the floor with walls around her. This way,
> the
>> dogs could look in at her, or even lay beside the bassinette, without
> any
>> fear of them accidentally smothering her or knocking it over. One area
>
>> where we needed to exercise some caution is when we put Elise on her
> play
>> gym. I didn't keep the dogs out of her room, but I supervised very
> closely
>> to make sure she didn't get squashed.
>>
>> Unfortunately, some of the dynamics between baby and dog can shift
>> dramatically once they become more mobile. One of our dogs is a little
>
>> Weiner Dog. He was great with Elise in the beginning, but as soon as
> she
>> was able to tug on him and chase him around the house, all of that
>> changed. He began to growl and snap at her, and as a result, he is now
>
>> living with a friend of our family who has no children. We could not
> risk
>> him biting her, no matter how remote that possibility might have been.
>>
>> Kaylor, my current guide (a Golden) is amazing with my daughter. He
> really
>> does have the patience of a saint where she is concerned. Having said
>> that, I have a real problem with parents who take the attitude that
> it's
>> "the dog's job to take whatever the kids dish out." That is a totally
>> irresponsible way to own a dog, and to parent, for that matter.
> Obviously,
>> I cannot prevent every instance of Elise being excessively rough with
>> Kaylor. However, I absolutely do not reinforce that behavior. The
> other
>> night, she walked over to him, and clobbered him over the head with
> one of
>> her large, plastic  toys. She immediately went to bed. She may not yet
>
>> understand the corelation, but she will, and the earlier we start
> teaching
>> her that it is inappropriate to hit the dog, or yank on his ears, the
>> better for everyone involved.
>>
>> In terms of maintaining a guide while caring for a young baby, I agree
>
>> with much of what Rebecca has said. I am fortunate, because my dog is
> 7,
>> and is nearing the end of his career. However, if he had been an
> extremely
>> new and young dog when I had Elise, I am pretty sure I would have sent
> him
>> back to the school to be reissued. I honestly don't have the time or
>> energy that he deserves. Luckally, he is a good "sometimes" worker,
> which
>> is the only reason why this has worked as long as it has.
>>
>> However, if you, as a brand new parent, can find time to do regular
>> obedience, groomings, workouts, etc. with your dog, you should write a
>
>> book, because many of us would pay to learn how you manage to do it.
> Many
>> of the complications come from logistics - carrying a baby, a diaper
> bag,
>> and a carseat in one hand, while working the dog with the other. Other
>
>> issues come from space constraints - fitting a dog, a baby, and all of
>
>> their respective gear into a tiny car or taxi.
>> Some of it is a function of season. I'm not sure where you live, but I
>
>> live in Minnesota, and I absolutely am not going to stand at a bus
> stop
>> for 25 minutes with an infant when it's 4 degrees outside. All of
> these
>> factors can add up to less work for your dog, despite your best
>> intentions.
>>
>> And, when your baby is very small, and your bearly getting 3 hours of
>> sleep a day, the last thing you want to do when you finally get that
> baby
>> to close his eyes is brush your dog or take her for a walk. Then you
> start
>> getting into play dates at other people's houses. Those people may or
> may
>> not want your dog in their home, and there may or may not be children
>> present who are afraid of large dogs.
>>
>> I'm not trying to say that it is impossible to use a dog while
> parenting a
>> young baby, but I do think it is extremely challenging, and that it
>> requires a significant commitment on the part of the handler. I, for
> one,
>> do not plan to replace my current guide until my daughter is at least
> 3 or
>> 4. I just don't think I have enough time, work, attention, or energy
>> left-over at the end of a day of caring for Elise, running all the
>> errands, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, cooking the meals,
> etc.
>> Heck, I'm lucky if I get to check my email once a day :).
>>
>> Hope some of this novel helps.
>>
>> Dena
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>>
>>>I found working with a guide dog very difficult once I had my
> daughter.
>>> It was fine before she could move, and then the older she got, the
>>> harder it got. She and my dog were very close, too close in that she
>>> would toss food on the floor, and my dog would eat it. Putting the
> dog
>>> in a different room didn't work because she just wouldn't eat, the
> she
>>> being my daughter. I found it very difficult to get both the baby and
>>> dog ready and out the door in the morning, and myself too. It drove
> me
>>> nuts adding the dog's needs into those of my daughter's. There were
> and
>>> still are times when she only wanted Mommy, and so we'd be cuddling
> and
>>> I'd think "the dog needs to do park time, when will we be done here".
>>> The whole thing was stressful.
>>> To complicate things, my husband worked the swing shift, so often, it
>>> was myself, my daughter and the dog alone. This doesn't sound bad,
>>> except that there are many activities with a baby you can't stop like
>>> batheing, eating, diaper changing, stuff like that. And sometimes
> these
>>> activities take longer then others, making the schedule hard to
>>> maintain.
>>> I would get real stressed when my daughter was not feeling well, and
> I
>>> knew the dog needed to go out and work.
>>> I'd also get stressed when my daughter needed to go to bed and I knew
>>> the dog could use some extra work and I'd have to be home because
> there
>>> is nothing worse then a tired toddler. My husband wasn't home so it's
>>> not like I could leave my daughter home by herself while I took the
> dog
>>> out for some extra work.
>>> Also, I found that as my daughter got to walking, she likes to stop
> and
>>> look at things and talk about them. This frustrated my dog, and I
> didn't
>>> think it was fair to either hurry my daughter along, or make the dog
>>> stop guiding so we could talk about a firetruck or an airplane flying
>>> overhead or watch the big kids play ball.
>>> I also found that I didn't want to spend time brushing and basically
>>> bonding with my dog after putting my daughter to bed. My mindset was
>>> "Well, I've been with the dog at work all day, I don't want to spend
>>> time with you at night". Not fair, I know, but it was what it was.
>>> Finally, we went through a period where my daughter had an ear
> infection
>>> about once every two weeks. This earned her a set of ear tubes, but
> it
>>> took awhile to get that sorted out. Adding a dog's medical needs as
> well
>>> as my daughter's wore me out.
>>> I decided to retire my dog, and am glad I did. I can focus my energy
>>> more fully on the human members of my family.
>>> I found that when my husband and I'd go out without our daughter, I
>>> wouldn't enjoy working my dog because to me, the same skill set
> involved
>>> in being  a parent is the same skill set involved with being a good
> dog
>>> handler. This meant that I felt like I hadn't had any time with my
>>> husband.
>>> Also too, I've found that people are more willing to assist when I'm
> out
>>> with my daughter. I can remember wanting a high chair at I think
>>> McDonald's and when I asked for one, the lady behind the counter was
>>> like "Won't the dog get that for you". Um, no, she wouldn't. Ditto
> when
>>> I needed to find an appropriate changing facility, people just
> expected
>>> the dog to know where that stuff was. I even had someone think my dog
>>> was supposed to calm my daughter down when she was having a huge red
>>> zone tantrum.
>>> I have no idea how I'd wrestle a screaming biting toddler into her
>>> carseat with a dog, you can't let go of the kid ina parking lot, and
>>> letting go of the dog may or may not be a good idea depending on
> where
>>> you are.
>>> What Eva says about not leaving a dog and baby alone together is
> true,
>>> but it is also very difficult to manage a dog and young kid together
> if
>>> you are the only adult involved. At least, this is my experience.
>>> UI'd be curious to know how and why others came to the conclution
> that
>>> using a dog was something they wanted and/or needed to do.
>>> I'll also say,t hat my husband isn't really a dog person. I knew this
>>> when I married him.
>>> I'll also add that what pet dogs and guide dogs don't equate asa pet
> dog
>>> isn't responsible for your safety. If the pet eats too much of the
> wrong
>>> food, and you have a backyard, you can just put the pet outside. Not
>>> such a good idea with a guide dog, or so is my opinion
>>> Michael, your experience may differ being that you're a dad. Also,
> know
>>> that you can work your dog as normal and if you find it isn't fun or
>>> worthwile anymore, you can always retire the dog. I did and while it
> was
>>> not easy emotionally, it was also the right choice for myself and my
>>> family at the time I made it.
>>> My daughter and dog are still close. My parents have the dog, and
> last
>>> time we visited, my mom wanted all the dogs to go outside. My
> daughter
>>> said "Jersey doesn't want to go outside, Jersey wants to stay here."
> So
>>> Jersey got to stay in the kitchen with the people.
>>> And, she still hangs out by my daughter who still feeds her when we
> go
>>> visit.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Eileen Levin
>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:36 PM
>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>> Both my labradors were great with the kids. My first one didn't like
> to
>>> play
>>> with the kids but she was very tolerant any way. The dog I got when
> my
>>> son
>>> was two absolutely loves to play with the kids and gives my boys a
> run
>>> for
>>> their money wrestling with bones, playing fetch and so on.
>>> Eileen
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Babcock, Michael A.
>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> Subject: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>> guys;
>>> I went to an ultra sound last week, oh and let me tell you, that,
> was,
>>> an
>>> experience. I was amazed.
>>> Second of all, i'm doing shopping for christmas gifts for my friends
> and
>>> family right now and it made me think, wow, next christmas, my kid
> will
>>> be
>>> about 8 months old, that's scary as hell.
>>> (pardon the language)
>>> I'm excited but very scared also. I'm curious however, do you guys
> any
>>> of
>>> you, have guide dogs, and how are your dogs around babies? I ask
> because
>>> mine, sheffield, i think will be ok. My soon to be wife's aunt's kid
> who
>>> was
>>> like a year and a half would pole his tail, and smile. Sheffield laid
>>> there,
>>> and i think he didn't get tired of it, but at one point he reached up
>>> and
>>> licked JR. in the face, this scared JR. and he ran away, but what do
> you
>>> guys think is the best way to introduce a guide dog to a baby? I know
>>> this
>>> isn't a guide dog list, but i thought that that is a relevant
> question.
>>> I
>>> fear sheffield will be very very protective.
>>> thanks a lot
>>> Mike
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