[blparent] it somces closer

Wed Dec 16 18:28:01 UTC 2009

If your dog is above a certain age, they will not consider him to be 
"reissueable." In such a case, you are able to keep him, but keep in mind 
that you won't have any more time for him as a pet than you will if he is 
your guide. That is what I am struggling with right now. I am asking myself 
how fair it is to keep a dog I don't really have time to walk or devote a 
ton of attention to.
Dena

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Babcock, Michael A." <michael.babcock at gwhosting.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer

> good day;
> thanks a lot for all of this advise. Me and sheffield have a working 
> period and i (nock on wood) think we should be able to keep this. We live 
> in alaska, and i walk to work every morning (when there is work), and find 
> other ways to get a workout in for sheffield 9and my self), so may try it, 
> i guess it's different once the baby is "home", to see how it works. I 
> like the blanket idea so will be sure to give that a try.
> mike
>
> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:18 PM, Dena Wainwright wrote:
>
>> This is a very difficult issue, and there is no right or wrong answer.
>>
>> Mike, I'm not sure where your dog comes from, but before I had Elise I 
>> had a trainer from GDB visit me to teach me the proper way to pull the 
>> stroller and work a dog. While she was here, I asked her about this exact 
>> thing - how to introduce my daughter and my dog, and how to deal with 
>> potential issues before they happened.
>>
>> What she told me, is that the biggest problems occur when people get all 
>> freaked out about the dog having access to the new baby. They banish the 
>> dog to another part of the house, scold the dog for showing interest in 
>> the baby, and before they know it, they have a very jealous, 
>> displaced-feeling dog. Obviously dogs react differently in such a case - 
>> perhaps acting up in the house, perhaps refusing to work, perhaps acting 
>> aggressively to the object (baby) that has displaced them from their 
>> pack.
>>
>> Based on her advice, we did the following...
>>
>> We left the door to what would be Elise's room open so the dogs could 
>> wander in whenever they wanted. They were allowed to sniff the crib, 
>> carseat, boxes of diapers - whatever we had in there at any given time.
>>
>> When I had Elise, I had my mom (who was staying with our dogs while I was 
>> in the hospital) bring home a blanket I had wrapped her up in. She just 
>> dropped it in the middle of the living room floor, and let the dogs sniff 
>> at it whenever they wanted. That way, when we brought Elise home, they 
>> already had her scent
>>
>> . The other thing we did, is introduced the dogs to her one at a time. 
>> Jason held the baby on his lap, and I brought each dog over to them on 
>> leash. The dogs were allowed to sniff her head, lick her hands, etc. 
>> Hands can be washed down with baby wipes afterward, but that first chance 
>> at an introduction cannot be re-done.
>>
>> In the early weeks home, we had a Moses basket for Elise. It's basically 
>> a light-weight wicker basket that could be carried from room to room. 
>> This allowed us to place her on the floor with walls around her. This 
>> way, the dogs could look in at her, or even lay beside the bassinette, 
>> without any fear of them accidentally smothering her or knocking it over. 
>> One area where we needed to exercise some caution is when we put Elise on 
>> her play gym. I didn't keep the dogs out of her room, but I supervised 
>> very closely to make sure she didn't get squashed.
>>
>> Unfortunately, some of the dynamics between baby and dog can shift 
>> dramatically once they become more mobile. One of our dogs is a little 
>> Weiner Dog. He was great with Elise in the beginning, but as soon as she 
>> was able to tug on him and chase him around the house, all of that 
>> changed. He began to growl and snap at her, and as a result, he is now 
>> living with a friend of our family who has no children. We could not risk 
>> him biting her, no matter how remote that possibility might have been.
>>
>> Kaylor, my current guide (a Golden) is amazing with my daughter. He 
>> really does have the patience of a saint where she is concerned. Having 
>> said that, I have a real problem with parents who take the attitude that 
>> it's "the dog's job to take whatever the kids dish out." That is a 
>> totally irresponsible way to own a dog, and to parent, for that matter. 
>> Obviously, I cannot prevent every instance of Elise being excessively 
>> rough with Kaylor. However, I absolutely do not reinforce that behavior. 
>> The other night, she walked over to him, and clobbered him over the head 
>> with one of her large, plastic  toys. She immediately went to bed. She 
>> may not yet understand the corelation, but she will, and the earlier we 
>> start teaching her that it is inappropriate to hit the dog, or yank on 
>> his ears, the better for everyone involved.
>>
>> In terms of maintaining a guide while caring for a young baby, I agree 
>> with much of what Rebecca has said. I am fortunate, because my dog is 7, 
>> and is nearing the end of his career. However, if he had been an 
>> extremely new and young dog when I had Elise, I am pretty sure I would 
>> have sent him back to the school to be reissued. I honestly don't have 
>> the time or energy that he deserves. Luckally, he is a good "sometimes" 
>> worker, which is the only reason why this has worked as long as it has.
>>
>> However, if you, as a brand new parent, can find time to do regular 
>> obedience, groomings, workouts, etc. with your dog, you should write a 
>> book, because many of us would pay to learn how you manage to do it. Many 
>> of the complications come from logistics - carrying a baby, a diaper bag, 
>> and a carseat in one hand, while working the dog with the other. Other 
>> issues come from space constraints - fitting a dog, a baby, and all of 
>> their respective gear into a tiny car or taxi.
>> Some of it is a function of season. I'm not sure where you live, but I 
>> live in Minnesota, and I absolutely am not going to stand at a bus stop 
>> for 25 minutes with an infant when it's 4 degrees outside. All of these 
>> factors can add up to less work for your dog, despite your best 
>> intentions.
>>
>> And, when your baby is very small, and your bearly getting 3 hours of 
>> sleep a day, the last thing you want to do when you finally get that baby 
>> to close his eyes is brush your dog or take her for a walk. Then you 
>> start getting into play dates at other people's houses. Those people may 
>> or may not want your dog in their home, and there may or may not be 
>> children present who are afraid of large dogs.
>>
>> I'm not trying to say that it is impossible to use a dog while parenting 
>> a young baby, but I do think it is extremely challenging, and that it 
>> requires a significant commitment on the part of the handler. I, for one, 
>> do not plan to replace my current guide until my daughter is at least 3 
>> or 4. I just don't think I have enough time, work, attention, or energy 
>> left-over at the end of a day of caring for Elise, running all the 
>> errands, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, cooking the meals, etc. 
>> Heck, I'm lucky if I get to check my email once a day :).
>>
>> Hope some of this novel helps.
>>
>> Dena
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" 
>> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>>
>>> I found working with a guide dog very difficult once I had my daughter.
>>> It was fine before she could move, and then the older she got, the
>>> harder it got. She and my dog were very close, too close in that she
>>> would toss food on the floor, and my dog would eat it. Putting the dog
>>> in a different room didn't work because she just wouldn't eat, the she
>>> being my daughter. I found it very difficult to get both the baby and
>>> dog ready and out the door in the morning, and myself too. It drove me
>>> nuts adding the dog's needs into those of my daughter's. There were and
>>> still are times when she only wanted Mommy, and so we'd be cuddling and
>>> I'd think "the dog needs to do park time, when will we be done here".
>>> The whole thing was stressful.
>>> To complicate things, my husband worked the swing shift, so often, it
>>> was myself, my daughter and the dog alone. This doesn't sound bad,
>>> except that there are many activities with a baby you can't stop like
>>> batheing, eating, diaper changing, stuff like that. And sometimes these
>>> activities take longer then others, making the schedule hard to
>>> maintain.
>>> I would get real stressed when my daughter was not feeling well, and I
>>> knew the dog needed to go out and work.
>>> I'd also get stressed when my daughter needed to go to bed and I knew
>>> the dog could use some extra work and I'd have to be home because there
>>> is nothing worse then a tired toddler. My husband wasn't home so it's
>>> not like I could leave my daughter home by herself while I took the dog
>>> out for some extra work.
>>> Also, I found that as my daughter got to walking, she likes to stop and
>>> look at things and talk about them. This frustrated my dog, and I didn't
>>> think it was fair to either hurry my daughter along, or make the dog
>>> stop guiding so we could talk about a firetruck or an airplane flying
>>> overhead or watch the big kids play ball.
>>> I also found that I didn't want to spend time brushing and basically
>>> bonding with my dog after putting my daughter to bed. My mindset was
>>> "Well, I've been with the dog at work all day, I don't want to spend
>>> time with you at night". Not fair, I know, but it was what it was.
>>> Finally, we went through a period where my daughter had an ear infection
>>> about once every two weeks. This earned her a set of ear tubes, but it
>>> took awhile to get that sorted out. Adding a dog's medical needs as well
>>> as my daughter's wore me out.
>>> I decided to retire my dog, and am glad I did. I can focus my energy
>>> more fully on the human members of my family.
>>> I found that when my husband and I'd go out without our daughter, I
>>> wouldn't enjoy working my dog because to me, the same skill set involved
>>> in being  a parent is the same skill set involved with being a good dog
>>> handler. This meant that I felt like I hadn't had any time with my
>>> husband.
>>> Also too, I've found that people are more willing to assist when I'm out
>>> with my daughter. I can remember wanting a high chair at I think
>>> McDonald's and when I asked for one, the lady behind the counter was
>>> like "Won't the dog get that for you". Um, no, she wouldn't. Ditto when
>>> I needed to find an appropriate changing facility, people just expected
>>> the dog to know where that stuff was. I even had someone think my dog
>>> was supposed to calm my daughter down when she was having a huge red
>>> zone tantrum.
>>> I have no idea how I'd wrestle a screaming biting toddler into her
>>> carseat with a dog, you can't let go of the kid ina parking lot, and
>>> letting go of the dog may or may not be a good idea depending on where
>>> you are.
>>> What Eva says about not leaving a dog and baby alone together is true,
>>> but it is also very difficult to manage a dog and young kid together if
>>> you are the only adult involved. At least, this is my experience.
>>> UI'd be curious to know how and why others came to the conclution that
>>> using a dog was something they wanted and/or needed to do.
>>> I'll also say,t hat my husband isn't really a dog person. I knew this
>>> when I married him.
>>> I'll also add that what pet dogs and guide dogs don't equate asa pet dog
>>> isn't responsible for your safety. If the pet eats too much of the wrong
>>> food, and you have a backyard, you can just put the pet outside. Not
>>> such a good idea with a guide dog, or so is my opinion
>>> Michael, your experience may differ being that you're a dad. Also, know
>>> that you can work your dog as normal and if you find it isn't fun or
>>> worthwile anymore, you can always retire the dog. I did and while it was
>>> not easy emotionally, it was also the right choice for myself and my
>>> family at the time I made it.
>>> My daughter and dog are still close. My parents have the dog, and last
>>> time we visited, my mom wanted all the dogs to go outside. My daughter
>>> said "Jersey doesn't want to go outside, Jersey wants to stay here." So
>>> Jersey got to stay in the kitchen with the people.
>>> And, she still hangs out by my daughter who still feeds her when we go
>>> visit.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Eileen Levin
>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:36 PM
>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>> Both my labradors were great with the kids. My first one didn't like to
>>> play
>>> with the kids but she was very tolerant any way. The dog I got when my
>>> son
>>> was two absolutely loves to play with the kids and gives my boys a run
>>> for
>>> their money wrestling with bones, playing fetch and so on.
>>> Eileen
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Babcock, Michael A.
>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> Subject: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>> guys;
>>> I went to an ultra sound last week, oh and let me tell you, that, was,
>>> an
>>> experience. I was amazed.
>>> Second of all, i'm doing shopping for christmas gifts for my friends and
>>> family right now and it made me think, wow, next christmas, my kid will
>>> be
>>> about 8 months old, that's scary as hell.
>>> (pardon the language)
>>> I'm excited but very scared also. I'm curious however, do you guys any
>>> of
>>> you, have guide dogs, and how are your dogs around babies? I ask because
>>> mine, sheffield, i think will be ok. My soon to be wife's aunt's kid who
>>> was
>>> like a year and a half would pole his tail, and smile. Sheffield laid
>>> there,
>>> and i think he didn't get tired of it, but at one point he reached up
>>> and
>>> licked JR. in the face, this scared JR. and he ran away, but what do you
>>> guys think is the best way to introduce a guide dog to a baby? I know
>>> this
>>> isn't a guide dog list, but i thought that that is a relevant question.
>>> I
>>> fear sheffield will be very very protective.
>>> thanks a lot
>>> Mike
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>>
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