[blparent] it somces closer

[Babcock, Michael A.]

hi;
and the advantage is that he (sheffield) will live not 2 blocks away, this, is a very good idea.
mike

On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS) wrote:

> Yes. This is xactly what I went through. Dogs live in the moment and so
> long as they get what they need, they don't really care who it's from.
> It's a cold way to look at it, but there it is. 
> And, before I had my daughter, I couldn't have thought of giving up my
> dog. A lot of things will change once the baby is here. It will be up to
> you and Sabrina to figure out what is and isn't changable and some but
> not all of that will depend on your needs and temperament, her needs and
> temperament and the baby's needs and temperament. Your dog's needs and
> temperament will also come into play. 
> And, there's nothing wrong with having your dad dopt the dog. My folks
> did and it's wonderful. They love having her, we all get to see her, and
> I am enjoying seeing her as a pet,a pet that I don't have to feed, walk,
> take to the vet, clean up after, and the like. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Dena Wainwright
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:28 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
> 
> If your dog is above a certain age, they will not consider him to be 
> "reissueable." In such a case, you are able to keep him, but keep in
> mind 
> that you won't have any more time for him as a pet than you will if he
> is 
> your guide. That is what I am struggling with right now. I am asking
> myself 
> how fair it is to keep a dog I don't really have time to walk or devote
> a 
> ton of attention to.
> Dena
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Babcock, Michael A." <michael.babcock at gwhosting.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
> 
> 
>> good day;
>> thanks a lot for all of this advise. Me and sheffield have a working 
>> period and i (nock on wood) think we should be able to keep this. We
> live 
>> in alaska, and i walk to work every morning (when there is work), and
> find 
>> other ways to get a workout in for sheffield 9and my self), so may try
> it, 
>> i guess it's different once the baby is "home", to see how it works. I
> 
>> like the blanket idea so will be sure to give that a try.
>> mike
>> 
>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:18 PM, Dena Wainwright wrote:
>> 
>>> This is a very difficult issue, and there is no right or wrong
> answer.
>>> 
>>> Mike, I'm not sure where your dog comes from, but before I had Elise
> I 
>>> had a trainer from GDB visit me to teach me the proper way to pull
> the 
>>> stroller and work a dog. While she was here, I asked her about this
> exact 
>>> thing - how to introduce my daughter and my dog, and how to deal with
> 
>>> potential issues before they happened.
>>> 
>>> What she told me, is that the biggest problems occur when people get
> all 
>>> freaked out about the dog having access to the new baby. They banish
> the 
>>> dog to another part of the house, scold the dog for showing interest
> in 
>>> the baby, and before they know it, they have a very jealous, 
>>> displaced-feeling dog. Obviously dogs react differently in such a
> case - 
>>> perhaps acting up in the house, perhaps refusing to work, perhaps
> acting 
>>> aggressively to the object (baby) that has displaced them from their 
>>> pack.
>>> 
>>> Based on her advice, we did the following...
>>> 
>>> We left the door to what would be Elise's room open so the dogs could
> 
>>> wander in whenever they wanted. They were allowed to sniff the crib, 
>>> carseat, boxes of diapers - whatever we had in there at any given
> time.
>>> 
>>> When I had Elise, I had my mom (who was staying with our dogs while I
> was 
>>> in the hospital) bring home a blanket I had wrapped her up in. She
> just 
>>> dropped it in the middle of the living room floor, and let the dogs
> sniff 
>>> at it whenever they wanted. That way, when we brought Elise home,
> they 
>>> already had her scent
>>> 
>>> . The other thing we did, is introduced the dogs to her one at a
> time. 
>>> Jason held the baby on his lap, and I brought each dog over to them
> on 
>>> leash. The dogs were allowed to sniff her head, lick her hands, etc. 
>>> Hands can be washed down with baby wipes afterward, but that first
> chance 
>>> at an introduction cannot be re-done.
>>> 
>>> In the early weeks home, we had a Moses basket for Elise. It's
> basically 
>>> a light-weight wicker basket that could be carried from room to room.
> 
>>> This allowed us to place her on the floor with walls around her. This
> 
>>> way, the dogs could look in at her, or even lay beside the
> bassinette, 
>>> without any fear of them accidentally smothering her or knocking it
> over. 
>>> One area where we needed to exercise some caution is when we put
> Elise on 
>>> her play gym. I didn't keep the dogs out of her room, but I
> supervised 
>>> very closely to make sure she didn't get squashed.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, some of the dynamics between baby and dog can shift 
>>> dramatically once they become more mobile. One of our dogs is a
> little 
>>> Weiner Dog. He was great with Elise in the beginning, but as soon as
> she 
>>> was able to tug on him and chase him around the house, all of that 
>>> changed. He began to growl and snap at her, and as a result, he is
> now 
>>> living with a friend of our family who has no children. We could not
> risk 
>>> him biting her, no matter how remote that possibility might have
> been.
>>> 
>>> Kaylor, my current guide (a Golden) is amazing with my daughter. He 
>>> really does have the patience of a saint where she is concerned.
> Having 
>>> said that, I have a real problem with parents who take the attitude
> that 
>>> it's "the dog's job to take whatever the kids dish out." That is a 
>>> totally irresponsible way to own a dog, and to parent, for that
> matter. 
>>> Obviously, I cannot prevent every instance of Elise being excessively
> 
>>> rough with Kaylor. However, I absolutely do not reinforce that
> behavior. 
>>> The other night, she walked over to him, and clobbered him over the
> head 
>>> with one of her large, plastic  toys. She immediately went to bed.
> She 
>>> may not yet understand the corelation, but she will, and the earlier
> we 
>>> start teaching her that it is inappropriate to hit the dog, or yank
> on 
>>> his ears, the better for everyone involved.
>>> 
>>> In terms of maintaining a guide while caring for a young baby, I
> agree 
>>> with much of what Rebecca has said. I am fortunate, because my dog is
> 7, 
>>> and is nearing the end of his career. However, if he had been an 
>>> extremely new and young dog when I had Elise, I am pretty sure I
> would 
>>> have sent him back to the school to be reissued. I honestly don't
> have 
>>> the time or energy that he deserves. Luckally, he is a good
> "sometimes" 
>>> worker, which is the only reason why this has worked as long as it
> has.
>>> 
>>> However, if you, as a brand new parent, can find time to do regular 
>>> obedience, groomings, workouts, etc. with your dog, you should write
> a 
>>> book, because many of us would pay to learn how you manage to do it.
> Many 
>>> of the complications come from logistics - carrying a baby, a diaper
> bag, 
>>> and a carseat in one hand, while working the dog with the other.
> Other 
>>> issues come from space constraints - fitting a dog, a baby, and all
> of 
>>> their respective gear into a tiny car or taxi.
>>> Some of it is a function of season. I'm not sure where you live, but
> I 
>>> live in Minnesota, and I absolutely am not going to stand at a bus
> stop 
>>> for 25 minutes with an infant when it's 4 degrees outside. All of
> these 
>>> factors can add up to less work for your dog, despite your best 
>>> intentions.
>>> 
>>> And, when your baby is very small, and your bearly getting 3 hours of
> 
>>> sleep a day, the last thing you want to do when you finally get that
> baby 
>>> to close his eyes is brush your dog or take her for a walk. Then you 
>>> start getting into play dates at other people's houses. Those people
> may 
>>> or may not want your dog in their home, and there may or may not be 
>>> children present who are afraid of large dogs.
>>> 
>>> I'm not trying to say that it is impossible to use a dog while
> parenting 
>>> a young baby, but I do think it is extremely challenging, and that it
> 
>>> requires a significant commitment on the part of the handler. I, for
> one, 
>>> do not plan to replace my current guide until my daughter is at least
> 3 
>>> or 4. I just don't think I have enough time, work, attention, or
> energy 
>>> left-over at the end of a day of caring for Elise, running all the 
>>> errands, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, cooking the meals,
> etc. 
>>> Heck, I'm lucky if I get to check my email once a day :).
>>> 
>>> Hope some of this novel helps.
>>> 
>>> Dena
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" 
>>> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I found working with a guide dog very difficult once I had my
> daughter.
>>>> It was fine before she could move, and then the older she got, the
>>>> harder it got. She and my dog were very close, too close in that she
>>>> would toss food on the floor, and my dog would eat it. Putting the
> dog
>>>> in a different room didn't work because she just wouldn't eat, the
> she
>>>> being my daughter. I found it very difficult to get both the baby
> and
>>>> dog ready and out the door in the morning, and myself too. It drove
> me
>>>> nuts adding the dog's needs into those of my daughter's. There were
> and
>>>> still are times when she only wanted Mommy, and so we'd be cuddling
> and
>>>> I'd think "the dog needs to do park time, when will we be done
> here".
>>>> The whole thing was stressful.
>>>> To complicate things, my husband worked the swing shift, so often,
> it
>>>> was myself, my daughter and the dog alone. This doesn't sound bad,
>>>> except that there are many activities with a baby you can't stop
> like
>>>> batheing, eating, diaper changing, stuff like that. And sometimes
> these
>>>> activities take longer then others, making the schedule hard to
>>>> maintain.
>>>> I would get real stressed when my daughter was not feeling well, and
> I
>>>> knew the dog needed to go out and work.
>>>> I'd also get stressed when my daughter needed to go to bed and I
> knew
>>>> the dog could use some extra work and I'd have to be home because
> there
>>>> is nothing worse then a tired toddler. My husband wasn't home so
> it's
>>>> not like I could leave my daughter home by herself while I took the
> dog
>>>> out for some extra work.
>>>> Also, I found that as my daughter got to walking, she likes to stop
> and
>>>> look at things and talk about them. This frustrated my dog, and I
> didn't
>>>> think it was fair to either hurry my daughter along, or make the dog
>>>> stop guiding so we could talk about a firetruck or an airplane
> flying
>>>> overhead or watch the big kids play ball.
>>>> I also found that I didn't want to spend time brushing and basically
>>>> bonding with my dog after putting my daughter to bed. My mindset was
>>>> "Well, I've been with the dog at work all day, I don't want to spend
>>>> time with you at night". Not fair, I know, but it was what it was.
>>>> Finally, we went through a period where my daughter had an ear
> infection
>>>> about once every two weeks. This earned her a set of ear tubes, but
> it
>>>> took awhile to get that sorted out. Adding a dog's medical needs as
> well
>>>> as my daughter's wore me out.
>>>> I decided to retire my dog, and am glad I did. I can focus my energy
>>>> more fully on the human members of my family.
>>>> I found that when my husband and I'd go out without our daughter, I
>>>> wouldn't enjoy working my dog because to me, the same skill set
> involved
>>>> in being  a parent is the same skill set involved with being a good
> dog
>>>> handler. This meant that I felt like I hadn't had any time with my
>>>> husband.
>>>> Also too, I've found that people are more willing to assist when I'm
> out
>>>> with my daughter. I can remember wanting a high chair at I think
>>>> McDonald's and when I asked for one, the lady behind the counter was
>>>> like "Won't the dog get that for you". Um, no, she wouldn't. Ditto
> when
>>>> I needed to find an appropriate changing facility, people just
> expected
>>>> the dog to know where that stuff was. I even had someone think my
> dog
>>>> was supposed to calm my daughter down when she was having a huge red
>>>> zone tantrum.
>>>> I have no idea how I'd wrestle a screaming biting toddler into her
>>>> carseat with a dog, you can't let go of the kid ina parking lot, and
>>>> letting go of the dog may or may not be a good idea depending on
> where
>>>> you are.
>>>> What Eva says about not leaving a dog and baby alone together is
> true,
>>>> but it is also very difficult to manage a dog and young kid together
> if
>>>> you are the only adult involved. At least, this is my experience.
>>>> UI'd be curious to know how and why others came to the conclution
> that
>>>> using a dog was something they wanted and/or needed to do.
>>>> I'll also say,t hat my husband isn't really a dog person. I knew
> this
>>>> when I married him.
>>>> I'll also add that what pet dogs and guide dogs don't equate asa pet
> dog
>>>> isn't responsible for your safety. If the pet eats too much of the
> wrong
>>>> food, and you have a backyard, you can just put the pet outside. Not
>>>> such a good idea with a guide dog, or so is my opinion
>>>> Michael, your experience may differ being that you're a dad. Also,
> know
>>>> that you can work your dog as normal and if you find it isn't fun or
>>>> worthwile anymore, you can always retire the dog. I did and while it
> was
>>>> not easy emotionally, it was also the right choice for myself and my
>>>> family at the time I made it.
>>>> My daughter and dog are still close. My parents have the dog, and
> last
>>>> time we visited, my mom wanted all the dogs to go outside. My
> daughter
>>>> said "Jersey doesn't want to go outside, Jersey wants to stay here."
> So
>>>> Jersey got to stay in the kitchen with the people.
>>>> And, she still hangs out by my daughter who still feeds her when we
> go
>>>> visit.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Eileen Levin
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:36 PM
>>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>> 
>>>> Both my labradors were great with the kids. My first one didn't like
> to
>>>> play
>>>> with the kids but she was very tolerant any way. The dog I got when
> my
>>>> son
>>>> was two absolutely loves to play with the kids and gives my boys a
> run
>>>> for
>>>> their money wrestling with bones, playing fetch and so on.
>>>> Eileen
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Babcock, Michael A.
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>> 
>>>> guys;
>>>> I went to an ultra sound last week, oh and let me tell you, that,
> was,
>>>> an
>>>> experience. I was amazed.
>>>> Second of all, i'm doing shopping for christmas gifts for my friends
> and
>>>> family right now and it made me think, wow, next christmas, my kid
> will
>>>> be
>>>> about 8 months old, that's scary as hell.
>>>> (pardon the language)
>>>> I'm excited but very scared also. I'm curious however, do you guys
> any
>>>> of
>>>> you, have guide dogs, and how are your dogs around babies? I ask
> because
>>>> mine, sheffield, i think will be ok. My soon to be wife's aunt's kid
> who
>>>> was
>>>> like a year and a half would pole his tail, and smile. Sheffield
> laid
>>>> there,
>>>> and i think he didn't get tired of it, but at one point he reached
> up
>>>> and
>>>> licked JR. in the face, this scared JR. and he ran away, but what do
> you
>>>> guys think is the best way to introduce a guide dog to a baby? I
> know
>>>> this
>>>> isn't a guide dog list, but i thought that that is a relevant
> question.
>>>> I
>>>> fear sheffield will be very very protective.
>>>> thanks a lot
>>>> Mike
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