[blparent] it somces closer

Wed Dec 16 21:14:18 UTC 2009

Just a couple of thoughts.  First of all, depending on the dog, you can put
the leash between your knees, or around your wrist while putting the baby
into the car seat.  That way you don't have to let go of the dog and you can
still put the baby in the seat yourself.  If all else fails, you can put the
leash around your ankle, though this could be a problem if you forget and
try to walk away like that.  This is what I have done, and it works well.
I'm lucky though to have a very calm dog.  This is probably a solution the
school wouldn't think of.  Second, sometimes you just cannot work a dog,
period.  There are times when your baby is sick and you cannot leave,
period.  Of course it is absolutely ideal that your dog work everyday or
almost everyday, but sometimes this is just not possible.  I play kong with
my dog on those days I can't go out and work her, and/or walk her in the
evening after my husband comes home.  Once in a very great while my husband
walks her for me.  This is only in absolute emergencies when my son simply
won't let me out of his sight and the dog is climbing up the walls.  Is this
ideal, no, probably not, but we don't live in a perfect world by any means.
All any of us can do is do the very best we can.  I equate this with myself
being sick; if I am sick I will probably not take my dog out either for a
workout.  Now, if this is happening extremely often, then it is certainly
worth looking at retiring the dog.  This is such a personal decision!  And
what seems right or fair for one dog owner may not seem right or fair for
another.  I have managed to find a pretty good balance with my dog, but I
know this balance will shift a bit when we have our new baby in May.  So,
again I will find myself asking the same questions and coming to my own
conclusions.
I hope some of this helps.
Melissa

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:03 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer

I encountered much the same. The school could tell me how to introduce
dog and baby, but so could any dog book. What I wanted to know were
"What do I do with the dog while I'm putting my daughter into her
carseat, because I can't let go of the dog and I can't let go of the
kid, and I've only got two hands". The school's answer was "get help...
maybe someone can put the baby in the carseat" I'm not a fan of this as
I enjoy doing it, and I don't think my hired drivers should do it. Or,
"My kid is home sick, shouldn't go anyplace, the dog really needs to
work, how do I make this happen" The response "Maybe someone can come
over to baby-sit so you can get out for a walk" Yeah, who would this
person be, and btw, baby really needs mom right now, not a baby-sitter.
Plus, baby-sitters like to be paid, and I already do that for work and
date nights and the like. And, there's only so much you can ask Grandma
to do. 
So yes, I agree 100 percent with Dena. 
The schools offer precious little in the way of practical solutions to
practical problems, and the solutions they do offer are the same
solutions I can get from any dog-person source. 

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Dena Wainwright
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:54 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer

I have to agree about the schools' ability to help. I have been amazed
at 
the lack of insight my school has been able to provide regarding being a
dog 
user and being a parent of a young child. E.g., when I asked for tips on

traveling with a baby and a dog on an airplane, I was met with baffled 
silence... It's as though no one has ever done these things before, and
I 
really feel that this is a short coming where the schools are concerned.
I 
also talked with them about the need to clarify things to their grads.
E.g., 
they will often deny a potential student who is either pregnant, or who
has 
a very young child. That makes sense to me now that I have a baby,
because I 
understand now how hard it would be to make a new match work, but I
think 
they really need to provide a detailed explaination of their reasoning
when 
this happens. For instance, brining up the challenge of keeping a new
dog on 
leash while carrying your four month old baby around. Implementing a
strict 
schedule for feeding, watering, and relieving when you have a child with
no 
schedule. Getting out to do regular workouts with your dog when you are 
recovering from labor and delivery, etc., etc.

Dena

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer

> The schools can and do help, but don't equate helping with fixing the
> problem/issues.
> The school can't step in to give your kid a bath or supervise bath
time
> if it takes longer then normal. The school can't clean up vomit when
> your kid throws up meaning that park time gets delayed. The school
can't
> watch your kid so you can get a couple extra hours of sleep, and can't
> take the dog out if you've just settled your kid after a rough night
and
> all you want to do is crawl back into bed yourself.
> The school can advise on overall procedure, but can't ensure that you
> implement it or that you have the desire to implement it.
> My dog was barely three when I had my daughter. She wanted and needed
> and deserved more then I was able to give her.
> Michael, you can certainly use a dog, but both you and your partner
will
> need to be committed to that being what you are going to do. If you
> aren't, or she isn't, or circumstances happen beyond your control,
then
> that's fine too. Give it a try if you are so inclined, but don't
forcea
> fit either. You can always get another dog when your child is
older/out
> of the house.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>
> Dena, you wrote a lot of what I was thinking but didn't take the time
to
> put
> into words.  Thank you.  I love my guide dog, but she doesn't get
nearly
> as
> much work as she used to when I was commuting, pre-baby, and taking a
> lot of
> buses and such.  Ballad is eight years old, so she's been okay with
> slowing
> down, but I won't get another guide when she retires.  At least not
till
>
> Sarah is closer to school age.
>
> The other thing I want to reinforce, is that it takes time and
patience
> to
> teach a toddler how to interact with a dog.  I'm always reinforcing
"Pet
>
> Ballad nice" and "Be gentle" over and over again, and lately, I'm
having
> to
> stop Sarah from taking Ballad's toys.
>
>
> Good luck with anything you decide, and the best advice I can give is,
> be in
> touch with your school.  Guide dog handlers have become parents many
> times
> before, and the school should be able to help you with any issues that
> come
> up.
>
> Take care.
>
> Jo Elizabeth
>
> Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always
> glorify
> the hunters.--African Proverb
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Dena Wainwright" <dena at envogueaccess.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:18 PM
> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>
>> This is a very difficult issue, and there is no right or wrong
answer.
>>
>> Mike, I'm not sure where your dog comes from, but before I had Elise
I
> had
>> a trainer from GDB visit me to teach me the proper way to pull the
>> stroller and work a dog. While she was here, I asked her about this
> exact
>> thing - how to introduce my daughter and my dog, and how to deal with
>> potential issues before they happened.
>>
>> What she told me, is that the biggest problems occur when people get
> all
>> freaked out about the dog having access to the new baby. They banish
> the
>> dog to another part of the house, scold the dog for showing interest
> in
>> the baby, and before they know it, they have a very jealous,
>> displaced-feeling dog. Obviously dogs react differently in such a
case
> -
>> perhaps acting up in the house, perhaps refusing to work, perhaps
> acting
>> aggressively to the object (baby) that has displaced them from their
> pack.
>>
>> Based on her advice, we did the following...
>>
>> We left the door to what would be Elise's room open so the dogs could
>> wander in whenever they wanted. They were allowed to sniff the crib,
>> carseat, boxes of diapers - whatever we had in there at any given
> time.
>>
>> When I had Elise, I had my mom (who was staying with our dogs while I
> was
>> in the hospital) bring home a blanket I had wrapped her up in. She
> just
>> dropped it in the middle of the living room floor, and let the dogs
> sniff
>> at it whenever they wanted. That way, when we brought Elise home,
they
>
>> already had her scent
>>
>> . The other thing we did, is introduced the dogs to her one at a
time.
>
>> Jason held the baby on his lap, and I brought each dog over to them
on
>
>> leash. The dogs were allowed to sniff her head, lick her hands, etc.
> Hands
>> can be washed down with baby wipes afterward, but that first chance
at
> an
>> introduction cannot be re-done.
>>
>> In the early weeks home, we had a Moses basket for Elise. It's
> basically a
>> light-weight wicker basket that could be carried from room to room.
> This
>> allowed us to place her on the floor with walls around her. This way,
> the
>> dogs could look in at her, or even lay beside the bassinette, without
> any
>> fear of them accidentally smothering her or knocking it over. One
area
>
>> where we needed to exercise some caution is when we put Elise on her
> play
>> gym. I didn't keep the dogs out of her room, but I supervised very
> closely
>> to make sure she didn't get squashed.
>>
>> Unfortunately, some of the dynamics between baby and dog can shift
>> dramatically once they become more mobile. One of our dogs is a
little
>
>> Weiner Dog. He was great with Elise in the beginning, but as soon as
> she
>> was able to tug on him and chase him around the house, all of that
>> changed. He began to growl and snap at her, and as a result, he is
now
>
>> living with a friend of our family who has no children. We could not
> risk
>> him biting her, no matter how remote that possibility might have
been.
>>
>> Kaylor, my current guide (a Golden) is amazing with my daughter. He
> really
>> does have the patience of a saint where she is concerned. Having said
>> that, I have a real problem with parents who take the attitude that
> it's
>> "the dog's job to take whatever the kids dish out." That is a totally
>> irresponsible way to own a dog, and to parent, for that matter.
> Obviously,
>> I cannot prevent every instance of Elise being excessively rough with
>> Kaylor. However, I absolutely do not reinforce that behavior. The
> other
>> night, she walked over to him, and clobbered him over the head with
> one of
>> her large, plastic  toys. She immediately went to bed. She may not
yet
>
>> understand the corelation, but she will, and the earlier we start
> teaching
>> her that it is inappropriate to hit the dog, or yank on his ears, the
>> better for everyone involved.
>>
>> In terms of maintaining a guide while caring for a young baby, I
agree
>
>> with much of what Rebecca has said. I am fortunate, because my dog is
> 7,
>> and is nearing the end of his career. However, if he had been an
> extremely
>> new and young dog when I had Elise, I am pretty sure I would have
sent
> him
>> back to the school to be reissued. I honestly don't have the time or
>> energy that he deserves. Luckally, he is a good "sometimes" worker,
> which
>> is the only reason why this has worked as long as it has.
>>
>> However, if you, as a brand new parent, can find time to do regular
>> obedience, groomings, workouts, etc. with your dog, you should write
a
>
>> book, because many of us would pay to learn how you manage to do it.
> Many
>> of the complications come from logistics - carrying a baby, a diaper
> bag,
>> and a carseat in one hand, while working the dog with the other.
Other
>
>> issues come from space constraints - fitting a dog, a baby, and all
of
>
>> their respective gear into a tiny car or taxi.
>> Some of it is a function of season. I'm not sure where you live, but
I
>
>> live in Minnesota, and I absolutely am not going to stand at a bus
> stop
>> for 25 minutes with an infant when it's 4 degrees outside. All of
> these
>> factors can add up to less work for your dog, despite your best
>> intentions.
>>
>> And, when your baby is very small, and your bearly getting 3 hours of
>> sleep a day, the last thing you want to do when you finally get that
> baby
>> to close his eyes is brush your dog or take her for a walk. Then you
> start
>> getting into play dates at other people's houses. Those people may or
> may
>> not want your dog in their home, and there may or may not be children
>> present who are afraid of large dogs.
>>
>> I'm not trying to say that it is impossible to use a dog while
> parenting a
>> young baby, but I do think it is extremely challenging, and that it
>> requires a significant commitment on the part of the handler. I, for
> one,
>> do not plan to replace my current guide until my daughter is at least
> 3 or
>> 4. I just don't think I have enough time, work, attention, or energy
>> left-over at the end of a day of caring for Elise, running all the
>> errands, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, cooking the meals,
> etc.
>> Heck, I'm lucky if I get to check my email once a day :).
>>
>> Hope some of this novel helps.
>>
>> Dena
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>
>>
>>>I found working with a guide dog very difficult once I had my
> daughter.
>>> It was fine before she could move, and then the older she got, the
>>> harder it got. She and my dog were very close, too close in that she
>>> would toss food on the floor, and my dog would eat it. Putting the
> dog
>>> in a different room didn't work because she just wouldn't eat, the
> she
>>> being my daughter. I found it very difficult to get both the baby
and
>>> dog ready and out the door in the morning, and myself too. It drove
> me
>>> nuts adding the dog's needs into those of my daughter's. There were
> and
>>> still are times when she only wanted Mommy, and so we'd be cuddling
> and
>>> I'd think "the dog needs to do park time, when will we be done
here".
>>> The whole thing was stressful.
>>> To complicate things, my husband worked the swing shift, so often,
it
>>> was myself, my daughter and the dog alone. This doesn't sound bad,
>>> except that there are many activities with a baby you can't stop
like
>>> batheing, eating, diaper changing, stuff like that. And sometimes
> these
>>> activities take longer then others, making the schedule hard to
>>> maintain.
>>> I would get real stressed when my daughter was not feeling well, and
> I
>>> knew the dog needed to go out and work.
>>> I'd also get stressed when my daughter needed to go to bed and I
knew
>>> the dog could use some extra work and I'd have to be home because
> there
>>> is nothing worse then a tired toddler. My husband wasn't home so
it's
>>> not like I could leave my daughter home by herself while I took the
> dog
>>> out for some extra work.
>>> Also, I found that as my daughter got to walking, she likes to stop
> and
>>> look at things and talk about them. This frustrated my dog, and I
> didn't
>>> think it was fair to either hurry my daughter along, or make the dog
>>> stop guiding so we could talk about a firetruck or an airplane
flying
>>> overhead or watch the big kids play ball.
>>> I also found that I didn't want to spend time brushing and basically
>>> bonding with my dog after putting my daughter to bed. My mindset was
>>> "Well, I've been with the dog at work all day, I don't want to spend
>>> time with you at night". Not fair, I know, but it was what it was.
>>> Finally, we went through a period where my daughter had an ear
> infection
>>> about once every two weeks. This earned her a set of ear tubes, but
> it
>>> took awhile to get that sorted out. Adding a dog's medical needs as
> well
>>> as my daughter's wore me out.
>>> I decided to retire my dog, and am glad I did. I can focus my energy
>>> more fully on the human members of my family.
>>> I found that when my husband and I'd go out without our daughter, I
>>> wouldn't enjoy working my dog because to me, the same skill set
> involved
>>> in being  a parent is the same skill set involved with being a good
> dog
>>> handler. This meant that I felt like I hadn't had any time with my
>>> husband.
>>> Also too, I've found that people are more willing to assist when I'm
> out
>>> with my daughter. I can remember wanting a high chair at I think
>>> McDonald's and when I asked for one, the lady behind the counter was
>>> like "Won't the dog get that for you". Um, no, she wouldn't. Ditto
> when
>>> I needed to find an appropriate changing facility, people just
> expected
>>> the dog to know where that stuff was. I even had someone think my
dog
>>> was supposed to calm my daughter down when she was having a huge red
>>> zone tantrum.
>>> I have no idea how I'd wrestle a screaming biting toddler into her
>>> carseat with a dog, you can't let go of the kid ina parking lot, and
>>> letting go of the dog may or may not be a good idea depending on
> where
>>> you are.
>>> What Eva says about not leaving a dog and baby alone together is
> true,
>>> but it is also very difficult to manage a dog and young kid together
> if
>>> you are the only adult involved. At least, this is my experience.
>>> UI'd be curious to know how and why others came to the conclution
> that
>>> using a dog was something they wanted and/or needed to do.
>>> I'll also say,t hat my husband isn't really a dog person. I knew
this
>>> when I married him.
>>> I'll also add that what pet dogs and guide dogs don't equate asa pet
> dog
>>> isn't responsible for your safety. If the pet eats too much of the
> wrong
>>> food, and you have a backyard, you can just put the pet outside. Not
>>> such a good idea with a guide dog, or so is my opinion
>>> Michael, your experience may differ being that you're a dad. Also,
> know
>>> that you can work your dog as normal and if you find it isn't fun or
>>> worthwile anymore, you can always retire the dog. I did and while it
> was
>>> not easy emotionally, it was also the right choice for myself and my
>>> family at the time I made it.
>>> My daughter and dog are still close. My parents have the dog, and
> last
>>> time we visited, my mom wanted all the dogs to go outside. My
> daughter
>>> said "Jersey doesn't want to go outside, Jersey wants to stay here."
> So
>>> Jersey got to stay in the kitchen with the people.
>>> And, she still hangs out by my daughter who still feeds her when we
> go
>>> visit.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Eileen Levin
>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:36 PM
>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>> Both my labradors were great with the kids. My first one didn't like
> to
>>> play
>>> with the kids but she was very tolerant any way. The dog I got when
> my
>>> son
>>> was two absolutely loves to play with the kids and gives my boys a
> run
>>> for
>>> their money wrestling with bones, playing fetch and so on.
>>> Eileen
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Babcock, Michael A.
>>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:36 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> Subject: [blparent] it somces closer
>>>
>>> guys;
>>> I went to an ultra sound last week, oh and let me tell you, that,
> was,
>>> an
>>> experience. I was amazed.
>>> Second of all, i'm doing shopping for christmas gifts for my friends
> and
>>> family right now and it made me think, wow, next christmas, my kid
> will
>>> be
>>> about 8 months old, that's scary as hell.
>>> (pardon the language)
>>> I'm excited but very scared also. I'm curious however, do you guys
> any
>>> of
>>> you, have guide dogs, and how are your dogs around babies? I ask
> because
>>> mine, sheffield, i think will be ok. My soon to be wife's aunt's kid
> who
>>> was
>>> like a year and a half would pole his tail, and smile. Sheffield
laid
>>> there,
>>> and i think he didn't get tired of it, but at one point he reached
up
>>> and
>>> licked JR. in the face, this scared JR. and he ran away, but what do
> you
>>> guys think is the best way to introduce a guide dog to a baby? I
know
>>> this
>>> isn't a guide dog list, but i thought that that is a relevant
> question.
>>> I
>>> fear sheffield will be very very protective.
>>> thanks a lot
>>> Mike
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