[blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

Mon Oct 31 16:08:52 UTC 2011

Older kids can deffinately say things to get out of naptime or bedtime. My daughter asked very seriously one night why the dinosaurs died. I explained current theories and that was that. But for the next few nights she'd pop out with "Mommy, why did the dinosaurs die". So I'd answer with stuff like "because they didn't go to bed. Because they asked too many questions at bedtime..." stuff like that.
She also has done the tried and true method of "But Mommy, I have to tell you something really important!"
The thing is, sometimes they really do need to talk.  My daughter started telling me that some of her dreams really upset her, mostly when she dreams that Daddy and I aren't with her. She also told me of one dream she had where we made her drive the car while we slept in the back. I have no idea if that dream was real or if she just said it because she and then I were laughing about how silly that was.
So sometimes they really do need to talk, other times they are just screwing with you.
We've also begun to let our daughter stay up and watch shows with us, stuff like House or Star Trek, not kid shows necessairly but shows we like and are comfortable with her watching. My folks used to let us watch Dallas with them. I loved that and still get warm and fuzzy whenever I hear the theme music. And, I had no clue what the show was about. I remember watching a rerun awhile back and saying to my mom "Wow, you let us watch *that*?!" It didn't harm me any and was apparently great bonding time. The key is the kid has to be quiet during the show. If that doesn't happen, bedtime.

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Erin Rumer
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 11:53 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

Thank you for further explaining yourself Bridget and for understanding my
points.  I still don't prefer to let Dawson cry it out even at nap or bed
times because at his age we really don't know his reason for crying and I'd
hate to leave him to cry and it be because he's scared, confused or in pane
or for any other reason.  I totally think that older kids can take advantage
of parents in their own way to get out of napping or sleeping but that's
further in the future for us for sure.  My problem that I was explaining in
my original post was that Dawson merely didn't want to sleep in his crib and
not that I had problems getting him to sleep in general.  One night out of
the blue when he was ten months old he woke up screaming like I've never
heard him scream.  We are only left to wonder what caused him to wake up in
that state but whatever it was, it was enough to change his attitude toward
his crib from that point on.  After contemplating every possible scenario my
gut told me that something was genuinely bothering him and not to push the
issue with him.  He was always a fabulous sleeper and I didn't want Dawson
to begin having a negative attitude toward bed time because I'm forcing the
issue of sleeping in the crib.  My behavior with him before this episode
didn't change so I knew that it wasn't him trying to get into our bed
because I wasn't bringing him to bed with us before that.  Thankfully the
problem is solved in a way that makes us all happy.  Dawson and I go into
our bedroom around 7:30 and after playing quietly for a bit, I nurse him in
the dark and quiet room until he falls asleep which doesn't take long.  I
tried to watch a show on television for my own entertainment while nursing
him to sleep and this only worked for one night and then every other time it
kept him awake and he thought it was play time.  That was quickly remedied
with the television going off after we played quietly for a little bit to
get the wiggles out.  Now that our mattress is on the floor Dawson can be
safely left once he's asleep and I can leave the room and have some time to
myself or get a few things done before I go to bed.  Dawson's got a great
internal clock, so he tends to wake up and start talking to me in bed about
ten minutes before daddy has to get up for work which is perfect because is
slowly arouses him instead of a loud alarm clock screaming in his ear to
wake up.

Problem solved,

Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:45 AM
To: blparent at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

Erin,

I agree we can all learn from one another, and I'm certainly not opposed
to hearing about different methods, products, techniques etc. I think
there is a lot out there offering some tid-bit of helpful advice and
wisdom even if not in its entirety. To some extent, trial and error is
the best method for parents.

I agree with what you list here. I think way too many products exist
meant to do the job of a parent. I'm pretty young still, only 30, but I
tend to have more old-fashioned ideas of parenting. Affection is an
important part of the child-rearing process, and obviously children who
receive affection from their parents will be more likely to  reciprocate
affection to others.

My comments before were directed specifically to nap and sleep times. I
in no way suggest, or believe, a child should be left to cry it out each
time they cry. Without checking on a crying child, we have no idea if
they require food, a change or just love. There's nothing wrong with
comforting a crying child. In fact, the other day, Pen was misbehaving,
and when my husband took a stern tone with her, she looked over at me
with that sad, pitiful face, like, "Can you believe this? Did you hear
him? He spoke sternly to me!" I tried to keep a straight face, but then
she started crying like the world was ending. Usually I try to talk
calmly, but firmly in these situations and explain why someone had to
get after her, but she was tired, and her cries were so pitiful. I ended
up holding her for a bit until she stopped. Some may say I was awarding
bad behavior, but it just broke my heart the way she was crying.

So I'm not recommending we leave our kids to fend for themselves each
time they cry or are upset. I was focused on bedtimes. With scheduled
bedtimes, Pen has gotten to a point where she will now put herself down,
but she can still resist sleep when she wants. Even when we get her and
try laying with her, she thinks it's just play time. My advice was that
during sleep times, if they cry, it's okay to let them cry it out.

Studies can be completely contradictary. I don't really like using
studies in these arguments because of this. I've read, and heard of,
studies showing that when we respond to every episode of crying, we
condition children to learn that no matter the situation, crying, or
some verbalization, gets them what they want. Of course babies and
toddlers can't process the concept of manipulation. I use this word not
in terms of how an older child, or adult, can manipulate, but in so far
as how a conditioning response works. Baby cries because you put them
down for naptime, they resist sleep, you get them and either lay down
with them or allow them to get up, and the conditioned response is
marked in the brain as crying lets me get out of sleep. No a child
doesn't reason it out this way, but at the basic mental functioning, a
conditioning response is being instilled.

Your original post came across as though Dawson were fighting sleep, and
you were unable to accomplish chores or things for yourself because of
this. Based on this interpretation, it makes sense that if Dawson can't
be left alone until asleep because he will either get up or may fall off
the bed, logic dictates that a crib, or some contained sleeping space,
accomplishes what you need. He may cry, but crying in this situation
isn't because he doesn't feel loved or that he requires affection or
that he will now grow up with abandonment issues. He's not getting his
way and isn't happy about it. Again, of course a toddler doesn't have
the sophisticated reasoning capacity to understand exactly what he's
doing and why, but early on, again more studies, kids learn
conditioning. When my husband got after Pen for throwing food at the
dog, her thought was, Oh, mama isn't getting after me so I'll run to her
for comfort. And again, her mental capacity didn't rationalize it quite
this advancely, but in essence, this is what was happening. It's similar
when a child cries after being put down for a nap. Crying isn't always a
cry for affection. Attention perhaps, but not always affection.
Sometimes it's to get what they want.

We obviously love our kids and only want what is best. Please don't
mistake my argument as being against affection or soothing a crying
child. I do, however, believe that every instance of crying doesn't mean
we need to respond. And of course babies and toddlers are not advanced
enough to manipulate in the sense of precalculating and planning, but we
can condition kids to react and behave certain ways, and we, as adults,
can become conditioned to react and behave in certain ways. The language
may make it sound more complex and sophisticated, but it's basic brain
functioning- react and respond instincts- A + B equals C. Letting a
child cry during sleep times isn't harmful or detremental to the growth
process of a child. Not responding when they cry every time does not
equate to the fact that a child will now have abandonment issues and
feel alone.

So I'm not talking about denying affection or relying on products or
other people to care for my child. Nor is letting a child cry a barbaric
form of parenting. Crying is a way for young children to communicate to
us. When hungry, wet, tired, sick, they cry. Does it not make sense that
they would use this language to demand and try to get something they
want? If they know enough to cry over food or changing or illness, they
know enough to cry when they aren't happy about something. Especially as
they grow into a toddler.

As I said, studies can be found supporting all sides and methods.
Ultimately, for me, it's about balance. No one is the perfect parent,
and regardless of what we do, we will make mistakes along the way. As
long as we love our kids though, hopefully those mistakes will pale in
comparison in the long-run. Nonetheless, conditioning can happen, and
will happen, and has the potential, depending on what the response is,
to lead to certain behavior and expectations. When I said my sister's
kids learned to set their own bed and meal times, I didn't mean to imply
they consciously make decisions, but they became conditioned to certain
behavior based on how my sister and her husband responded. My niece is
in first-grade this year, but she still has trouble sleeping before
midnight because each time she cried because she was put in her crib,
they got her up and brought her into bed with them. Her real issue was
about fighting sleep, and so if she didn't fall asleep with them, she
just played. Regardless of her biological needs, her brain was
conditioned to fight sleep, and if placed in her crib, she knew crying
invoked a response from mommy and daddy.

In a nutshell, letting a child cry during sleep time is not a form of
barbaric child torture, nor is it indicative of bad parenting. You may
feel bad about it, but that doesn't make it wrong in and of itself. My
post was not about responding to each instance of crying or refusing to
display affection; it was about sleep times and the importance of
teaching a child, even as young as a toddler, rules and guidelines.
Naptime is at X hour and you sleep in the crib. They may cry, but once
use to it, they usually become conditioned to how sleep time works.

Sincerely,
Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
Read my blog at:
http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/

"History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:42:52 -0700
From: "Erin Rumer" <erinrumer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler
Message-ID: <001c01cc94e9$00288c90$0079a5b0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Thanks for your comments Bridget, like you said we all have our own
opinions and parenting styles and I'm thankful for parents like you
because you help me build a stronger back bone toward my beliefs of how
I'm raising Dawson and being more confident that what I'm doing is right
for him.  I used to care more what people thought, and then I realized
that there's a lot of unsound advice out there and I need to do what I
know is right for Dawson in my heart.  I agree that we can share wisdom
with one another and I really recommend a book call "The No Cry
Solution" and anything from Dr. Sears. Babies cry and it's there only
way to communicate with us.  If we ignore that then we are telling our
child that we will not be there for them when they need us.  Children
Dawson's age don't have the ability to manipulate like an adult can and
that's where a lot of parents make mistakes in thinking that their
child's cries are manipulative tactics to "get at their parents".  The
sooner a child learns that their needs are going to be met, the more
confident and secure that child is going to be and the less manipulative
they're actually going to have to be as they get older because their
needs are being met.  A child that has to worry about whether or not
their parent is going to be there for them or not is spending precious
energy on just surviving in getting their basic needs met and not
focusing on learning and just being a fun loving kid.  I see this in my
everyday life with Dawson.  When he cries, I go to him and take care of
him and he stops crying immediately.  He is calm and confident in nearly
every situation in our day-to-day life which tells me I'm doing the
right thing.  I know that a lot of this could be personality as well,
but my parenting methods are only fostering this behavior because I'm
telling him that I'm there for him and will nurture him always.

We live in a society that is so barbaric compared to other countries
when it comes to some of these topics.  We are a culture that makes
teddy bears that sing our children to sleep and have heart beat sounds
just so we can avoid holding and singing to our own babies.  We have
cribs that rock our children and bottle proper's to feed them all so we
can avoid doing our parental duties.  These tools are alright on a rare
occasion, but some people use them all the time.  My husband and some
dear friends make sure I get some me time so I definitely don't feel
deprived in this category and now that I can nurse Dawson on our bed
that's on the floor and sneak away at night to get some time to myself,
it's even better.  Our attitude as parents needs to be, how can I meet
my child's needs while also meeting my own, rather than, my kid's going
to do what I want despite their needs and they'll adjust to that.
Studies have shown across the board that the baby that is left to cry it
out stops crying eventually, not because they've learned to be a better
baby, but rather because they've begun to just give up and are very
confused and insecure about whether or not their parent is going to be
there for them when they need them.  I know some other parents who do
the cry it out method and I watch their children very closely during
play group.  These are the kids that are screaming louder and are much
more disengaged with mom when it comes to relaxing and having fun time
because they're more concerned with getting their basic needs met.  I
guess the best way I can describe it is that these are the children that
seem much more stressed out compared to their peers.

You cannot spoil a baby with love and affection and when Dawson grows up
to be a confident, secure man because his needs were met growing up and
he was allowed to be a baby, then my hard work as a mom will shine at
its brightest.  I'm going to make mistakes like everyone, but holding my
child when he cries and going to him when he needs me is something I
know in my heart is a good thing I'm doing for him.  I'm teaching Dawson
how to be not only a good person, but also a good daddy and husband in
the future.  I pray that I get the opportunity to watch Dawson comfort
his babies and laugh and play with them because that will be one of the
most wonderful gifts a parent could get from their child.

Food for thought,

Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:09 PM
To: blparent at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

Well, looks like I'm going to be the bitch here. LOL Though it's great
to see our kids grow up and become perceptive and aware, you're letting
Dawson have the upperhand. He's not only aware of your intention, he's
made the connection that certain behavior will get him what he wants-
out of the crib and freedom to either stay awake or roam your room at
his leisure. It's not processed quite this intelligently, but on a basic
level, he knows what the situation is and how to respond. You're
basically catering to his whims now.

My sister did exactly what you're doing, and her kids to this day rule
the roost. They set their own bedtimes, eat when they want and know how
to manipulate the situation to get what they want. This was all learned
at an early age. The oldest at seven is still like this.

Crying is a healthy, natural part of life. Crying doesn't mean they are
hurt or that you're a bad parent. Penny, at two-years-old, has to cry it
out for an hour at times before falling asleep. Usually she just plays
in her bed, but she does cry at times. Nothing will happen to them when
they cry though, and studies actually show it's healthy for children,
and adults, to just cry at times.

No one is the perfect parent, and no one has all the answers. If you
can't accomplish chores or unwind though, there's a problem. And if
you're letting Dawson dictate all this, he's now dominating the
situation. Placing the matress on the floor is just the last straw in my
opinion. You want him to be safe and healthy, but to completely uproot
your schedule and life, this doesn't seem healthy.

It won't kill Dawson or you if he cries and cries in his crib. Children
actually require limits and boundries regardless of how they feel or
what they say and do. Penny has taken to screaming like a night owl when
she wants her way. We've learned to ignore it even when in public. Once
she realizes this doesn't get her attention, or her way, she stops. She
will do it during naptime in her crib too. After she realizes no one is
coming to let her out though, she lays back down and falls asleep.

I know it's tough, and you enjoy the bonding aspect, but honey, that kid
is wrapping his little finger around you much too tight, and he has all
the cards in his hand. You think the crying-it-out method is cruel and
unpleasant, but in a few years, you won't find it so pleasant when
Dawson is always demanding his way and refusing to listen to you. This
doesn't mean he isn't a sweet heart, but he's learning behavior at a
young age that is ingraining certain behavior and ideas that will stick.

And you mention how much you enjoy the bonding aspect, but what about
Dawson? Not that he doesn't like mommy time, or isn't learning anything
from the bonding, but at this point, the bonding seems to be more about
how the experience is for you, and not about what is best for Dawson.
You need time apart from him to unwind, relax, do something just for
yourself, or spend valuable bonding time with your husband. This is all
just as important as bonding with Dawson. Neither one of you seems
better for this scenario; maybe trying something new should be
considered.

And if Dawson is always sleeping with you, it won't be easy to have
another child! Smile.

I realize numerous methods and ideas for parenting exist. This is my
opinion, and it's either to be taken or ignored. Do not interpret this
as me saying you're a bad parent either. We all make mistakes, and we
all just want the best for our children. I just think you've dug
yourself a hole that, if continueing, will be difficult to dig out of.
Take control of the situation, and if Dawson has to cry, it won't kill
him. You need time for yourself and with your husband. This is my two
cents, and just an opinion. I have my own parenting issues to deal with;
we all do. But I've learned from this list that we can all offer some
wisdom, and we can learn from one another.

Sincerely,
Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
Read my blog at: http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/

"History is not what happened; history is what was written down." The
Expected One- Kathleen McGowan

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:11:53 -0700
From: "Erin Rumer" <erinrumer at gmail.com>
To: "NFB blind parent listserv" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blparent] co-sleeping with toddler
Message-ID: <002601cc9339$320be100$9623a300$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Hello parents,

I'd love to hear from those of you who chose to co-sleep with your
babies. My son Dawson who will be one years old on Halloween has been
co-sleeping with my husband and I since he was ten months old.  I
absolutely love the co-sleeping arrangement and in many ways wish I had
started it earlier.  The only snag that I'm finding is that Dawson used
to be able and go down in his crib for the first stretch of the night
which was a couple of hours and then by the time he woke-up I'd be ready
to go to bed or my husband would just bring him into me to co-sleep. Now
Dawson doesn't want to do the first stretch on his own and refuses to go
down without me.  I'm an early to bed person but now not having that few
hours on my own is difficult.  How do those of you with co-sleeping
toddlers usually start out your night?  I'm finding that just letting
Dawson play a little longer in my room with the TV on low helps him
start to calm for the night and then around 8:30 we can lay down
together with no stimulation noise or lights on and he'll fall asleep
quickly.  This isn't giving me any time to unwind for the night though.
I'm still nursing Dawson so daddy putting him down to bed is out of the
question since he needs boob to fall asleep and that's not a battle I
want to start right now especially since breast feeding is so special
and something both Dawson and I love very much. I'm against cry it out
methods and want sleep time to continue to be a positive and pleasant
experience for everyone.

Thanks,

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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:47:20 -0700
From: "Erin Rumer" <erinrumer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blparent] new baby
Message-ID: <001d01cc94e9$a01567f0$e04037d0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Congratulations Jessica and I love the name Noah.  You have a precious
gift in your arms and the best advice I can give to you is just love on
that baby, kiss him and hug him until your lips and arms feel like
they're going to fall off because they grow up too fast.  I'm so happy
for you and recommend really scoping out the resale shops in your area.
I got too many things in the beginning at retail and am now finding
nearly everything Dawson needs at wonderful second hand stores which
really save the pocketbook.

Best to you and your little bundle.

Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Jessica Pitzer
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:33 PM
To: blparent at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blparent] new baby

Hi list.
I have a new baby.
He's 1 month old today.
I'm looking at things for christmas and just future purchases. Do any of
you have any products for a new baby or any websites that you've found
easy to shop for things for a new baby, like toys and so on. Thanks a
lot. Jessica and Noah

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:57:50 -0700
From: "Erin Rumer" <erinrumer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler
Message-ID: <001e01cc94eb$17c7feb0$4757fc10$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Rebecca, love the idea of fun sheets on the big kid bed when the child
is ready.  This is a great money saving method to make the toddler's bed
novel and exciting.

Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:11 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

A fun bed won't do squat if the maturity isn't there. Then you've spent
money on something that won't be used and cannot be used for anything
else. We did get our daughter some fun sheets for her big girl bed,
which is a regular twin bed, but that was because she was mentally
ready. And there was no problem with transition.

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Erin Rumer
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:55 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

Yes, there are definitely individual factors that don't make co-sleeping
the best for some families.  Did you get your son a special fun toddler
bed or convert a convertible crib?  I have a convertible crib but am
wondering if a fun car bed or something like that wouldn't be better for
the transition from our family bed to his big boy bed when he's older.
For now we're just enjoying having Dawson with us.  They grow up too
fast and I'm just loving him being a baby-new toddler right now.

Erin

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Chad Allen
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:37 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler

I strongly discouraged my wife from co-sleeping at an early age. I had
no problems with the cradle being in the room but once Harrison went
from cradle to crib, I worked very hard at not having us co-sleep.

First, I'm a deep sleeper so when Harrison was little, I was concerned
that I might roll over on him without knowing. Many books reinforced my
concerns so we avoided the habit at a young age.

When my wife tried co-sleeping after some protest, no one slept and he
quickly returned to sleeping in his own crib after only a few nights.

Now, Harrison sleeps from 9-11 hours in his bed and at 15 months, we
converted the crib to a bed. He sleeps in it and does not get out of the
bed until morning. We have the baby monitor on and we sleep with it on
and everything works out great.

My wife is quite happy too because she knows her son is a big boy who
can sleep on his own and we all get the sleep we deserve.

Hope this helps.

Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:09 PM
To: blparent at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blparent] Co-sleeping with toddler