[blparent] Pass the butter please!

[Jo Elizabeth Pinto]

Gabe, I am asking you respectfully, as a fellow list member, to please use 
your delete key.  Skip the messages you don't like and move on, just as we 
all try to do.  You find off topic, chatty posts problematic to read.  I 
understand that.  But I find your complaining and personal attacks on other 
list members objectionable, too.  The moderators are worried that people who 
need help will leave the group because there are too many off topic posts. 
But an argumentative atmosphere, which you are creating with your unpleasant 
messages, will make people leave as well.  As the moderators have said many 
times, before you send a post, read it over to make sure it isn't abrasive. 
Thank you.

Jo Elizabeth

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, 
compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of 
the weak and the strong.  Because someday in life you will have been all of 
these."--George Washington Carver, 1864-1943, American scientist

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Gabe Vega Via Iphone4S" <theblindtech at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 3:37 PM
To: "Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blparent] Pass the butter please!

> And, in all due respect, please, why can't you just let it go? He has 
> asked nicely he has asked over Steve has asked over it has been asked to 
> move on. But for some reason you cat. Please, let it go. If you want to 
> chitchat with your friends here on this list, and get their email 
> addresses and write them off list. But we are here to help your parents, 
> struggling parents, and parents are just have curiosities about how we 
> parent as blind people
>
> Gabe Vega
> Sent from my iPhone
> (623) 565-9357
>
> On May 21, 2012, at 2:16 PM, "Erin Rumer" <erinrumer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave, if anything my messages concerning this have talked about how
>> ambiguous and not black and white threads can be since we often talk 
>> about
>> parenting with our blindness sometimes as an addition to the topic at 
>> hand.
>> While your emails about the house buying topic were professional, your 
>> email
>> mentioning that "unless margarine is blind" we needed to end the thread,
>> came off very threatening and rood.  Like I mentioned in my email to 
>> Steve,
>> I personally will stick to blindness related parenting topics since it's
>> been clarified how that's the intent and goal of this list and I 
>> encourage
>> others to do the same.  We can always get other types of conversations 
>> going
>> on other lists concerning parenting and that's why there are so many 
>> types
>> out there.  Maybe the NFB will come up with an additional list where 
>> parents
>> who just happen to be blind can talk on a variety of things when it comes 
>> to
>> parenting, but from how you have mentioned you'd like to see the list 
>> run,
>> blindness related topics need to be at the forefront of this particular
>> list, correct?  Otherwise, my nutritional facts on butter and margarine
>> wouldn't have been off topic since we're always looking at what's going 
>> into
>> our kid's mouths.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Erin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 1:53 PM
>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Pass the butter please!
>>
>> Well, I would urge you to stay and see how things go.  I don't think 
>> things
>> are as black and white as your message seems to indicate.
>>
>> I spoke up on the butter thing because it was clearly off topic, and 
>> posted
>> a couple days after I had written a nice polite message about what is
>> appropriate for the list.
>>
>> Many people seem to take what I say either as a challenge, or a threat.
>> I know, and understand that the world is more grey, not black and white 
>> in
>> most situations.
>>
>> As lists and their topics go, this one isn't very strict, but people do 
>> seem
>> to get more upset about things.  I suppose this may be because of the 
>> desire
>> to do the right thing for our kids, and all the emotions -- love, etc.,
>> surrounding raising children.
>>
>>
>> Anyway I have probably rambled enough, Steve and I will give people as 
>> much
>> leeway as possible, but ultimately all our lists are blindness-related.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/20/2012 10:17 PM, Erin Rumer wrote:
>>> Hello Dave,
>>>
>>> I totally understand that some topics can be completely unrelated to
>>> parenting or blindness related parenting but I didn't think that
>>> talking about the nutritional value of butter and margarine for
>>> ourselves and kids was an out of control topic, but okay.  If this
>>> list is going to be limited to only blindness related parenting topics
>>> then it looks like most discussions will have to be brought to a halt
>>> because we've been talking about a lot of interesting and helpful
>>> topics that don't necessarily have to do with our blindness such as
>>> healthy recipes for our kids, all different types of helpful baby
>>> products and appropriate music for children just to name a few.  If
>>> every single thread is going to have to be directly link to blindness
>>> in some way than that's fine but I'll be turning to this list a lot
>>> less since only a small percentage of my life is related to my
>>> blindness and I'll need to turn to other parents on other list serves
>>> for compelling discussions on a variety of great parenting topics.  It
>>> will be a bummer though because we all have so much to offer to one
>>> another that has to do with parenting and is not related to our being
>>> blind.  I always thought that it was really nice to be able and just
>>> talk "normal" parenting chat with others who are blind and realize
>>> that we go through the same things that sighted parents go through.
>>> It is what it is and I guess there will just be a lot less threads on 
>>> this
>> list or you will have your work cut-out for yourself with proof-reading.
>>>
>>> Erin
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:13 PM
>>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Pass the butter please!
>>>
>>> Erin:
>>>
>>> I think that, over the years, Debbie and I and now Steve have tried to
>>> allow for great latitude concerning what is appropriate for this list.
>>> Yes, you can't divorce blindness from many other things.  However, on
>>> the other hand, long drawn discussions pro or con about topics like
>>> innoculations, or breast feeding would not be appropriate for this
>>> list.  Do these topics come up, yes they both have and many others.
>>> Some discussion is fine, but this is not an anything goes discussion 
>>> list.
>>>
>>> One of the things that an average list member would not be aware of is
>>> who comes and who goes, that is unsubscribes from the list, and when.
>>> I have done this for well over 20 years and experience has taught me
>>> that if a list doesn't have some guidelines and restraints, it becomes
>>> chaotic, and people leave.
>>>
>>> Ultimately, there needs to be some tie in to blindness.  Some off
>>> topic discussion happens and is fine, but we will speak out if and
>>> when things get out of hand.
>>>
>>> At the risk of sounding like a dictator, or a jerk, this is not up for
>>> debate.  I have run our lists this way since 1991 with our first
>>> dial-up bulletinboard system and it has worked.
>>>
>>> I am sure there are many lists for discussion of general parenting
>> concerns.
>>> This one is for blind parents to discuss parenting from a blindness
>>> perspective.
>>>
>>> Hope that makes sense and isn't too rambling!
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> \\At 08:54 PM 5/20/2012, you wrote:
>>>> I don't understand!  I thought this list was for blind parents
>>>> talking about topics of parenting whether it directly relates to our
>>>> blindness or not.  If we only talked about things that our blindness
>>>> is related to, then our discussions would be quite limited as
>>>> parents.  My blindness is a part of who I am and not all of what I
>>>> am.  It would be pretty shallow of us to only discuss things that are
>>>> connected to our blindness because that would leave out lots about
>>>> who we are as people in
>>> addition to who we are as parents.
>>>> Erin
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Gabe Vega
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:41 PM
>>>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Pass the butter please!
>>>>
>>>> I thought about saying something but the last time I tried suggesting
>>>> something was off topic, I was condemmed to 9 slashing with a spiked
>> whip.
>>>>
>>>> On May 19, 2012, at 1:04 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Come on everybody, you clearly know this is off topic -- so why do
>>>>> you do
>>>> it.  Unless the margarine is blind it isn't for discussion here.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 06:08 PM 5/17/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>> So there are different types of Margarine but just one kind made in
>>>>>> this way is enough to watch-out for the product and be more on the
>>>>>> defense when purchasing such altered and man-made food items.  I
>>>>>> wasn't sending this out to everyone as gospel that we should hurry
>>>>>> up and send out to everyone we know, but I merely found it
>>>>>> interesting and thought how it's good to educate ourselves on how
>>>>>> disgusting some of the "food" items are that companies expect us to
>>>>>> eat which we do as a whole because we're too trusting.  Just
>>>>>> because something's being sold in a grocery store here in America
>>>>>> doesn't mean we should eat it and if we base our purchases upon
>>>>>> that state of mind, then we're in trouble.  I truly and firmly
>>>>>> believe that obesity is on the rise, not just because of people's
>>>>>> poor eating habits and lack of exercise but it's also largely based
>>>>>> on what's put into our foods and how things are processed and-or
>>>>>> manufactured.  The bottom line is that the more natural and less
>>>>>> processed we get our foods the better and that's the only message I
>>>>>> was sharing here.  Of course there are a million different studies
>>>>>> out there warning us against this and that,
>>>> but have we ever seen a study that says that margarine is good for us?
>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>> Erin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gabe Vega Via
>>>>>> Iphone4S
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:34 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>>>> Cc: Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Pass the butter please!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like your line of thinking sir. Thank you for this well-written
>>>> response.
>>>>>> I knew that something being sold every day to everybody for years
>>>>>> cannot be that bad and on the brink of killing us all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gabe Vega
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> (623) 565-9357
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 17, 2012, at 12:24 PM, "Michael Baldwin"
>>>>>> <mbaldwin at gpcom.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> yeah real old, do a little more reading. It is kind of true, but
>>>>>>> it depends on what margarine your looking at.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/butter-vs-margarine/AN00835
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/prevention/askdietician/margarine.
>>>>>>> aspx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/butter.asp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really like the part about being one molecule away from being
>>>> plastic.
>>>>>>> Even a very slight change in the molecular structure of a
>>>>>>> substance can make a huge difference. o2 is the oxygen we need for
>>>>>>> life, but
>>>>>>> o3 is ozone, which is considered poisonous. You going to stop
>>>>>>> breathing because the oxygen you need to survive is 1 molecule
>>>>>>> away
>>>> from a poison?
>>>>>>> Some would argue that all products containing vegetable oil are
>>>>>>> bad for you, and you should only use lard and tallow for cooking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No matter what you decide to eat someone is going to come up with
>>>>>>> some research that says it is bad for you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> now if you want to be careful of something, watch out for
>>>>>>> dihydrogen monoxide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Erin Rumer
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:33 PM
>>>>>>> To: NFB blind parent listserv
>>>>>>> Subject: [blparent] Pass the butter please!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is some interesting and amazing facts about margarine and
>>>>>>> butter that I thought you'd all like to read since we're always
>>>>>>> concerned about putting the right things in our children's mouths
>>>>>>> as well as our
>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Enjoy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Erin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Margarine was originally manufactured to fatten turkeys. When it
>>>>>>> killed the turkeys, the people who had put all the money into the
>>>>>>> research wanted a payback so they put their heads together to
>>>>>>> figure out what to do with this product to get their money back.
>>>>>>> It was a white substance with no food appeal so they added the
>>>>>>> yellow colouring and sold it to people to use in place of butter.
>>>>>>> How do you like it? They have come out with some clever new
>>>> flavourings....
>>>>>>> DO YOU KNOW.. The difference between margarine and butter?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Read on to the end...gets very interesting!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both have the same amount of calories.
>>>>>>> Butter is slightly higher in saturated fats  at  8 grams; compared
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> 5 grams for margarine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eating margarine can increase heart disease in women by 53% over
>>>>>>> eating the same amount of butter, according to a recent Harvard
>>>>>>> Medical
>>>>>> Study.
>>>>>>> Eating butter increases the absorption of many other nutrients in
>>>>>>> other foods.
>>>>>>> Butter has many nutritional benefits where margarine has a few and
>>>>>>> only because they are added!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Butter tastes much better than margarine and it can enhance the
>>>>>>> flavours of other foods
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Butter has been around for centuries where margarine has been
>>>>>>> around for less than 100 years.
>>>>>>> And now, for Margarine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very High in Trans fatty acids.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Triples risk of coronary heart disease ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increases total cholesterol and LDL (this is the bad cholesterol)
>>>>>>> and lowers HDL cholesterol, (the good cholesterol)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increases the risk of cancers up to five times..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lowers quality of breast milk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Decreases immune response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Decreases insulin response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And here's the most disturbing fact... HERE IS THE PART THAT IS
>>>>>>> VERY INTERESTING!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Margarine is but ONE MOLECULE away from being PLASTIC... And
>>>>>>> shares
>>>>>>> 27 ingredients withPAINT These facts alone were enough to have me
>>>>>>> avoiding margarine for life and anything else that is hydrogenated
>>>>>>> (this means hydrogen is added, changing the molecular structure of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> substance).
>>>>>>> Open a tub of margarine and leave it open in your garage or shaded
>>>> area.
>>>>>>> Within a couple of days you will notice a couple of things:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * no flies, not even those pesky fruit flies will go near it (that
>>>>>>> should tell you something)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * it does not rot or smell differently because it has no
>>>>>>> nutritional value ; nothing will grow on it. Even those teeny
>>>>>>> weeny microorganisms will not find a home to grow. Why? Because it
>>>>>>> is nearly
>>>> plastic .
>>>>>>> Would you melt your Tupperware and spread that on your toast?
>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920
>>
>>
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