[blparent] [Bulk] Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her BabyFrom Being Hitby a Car

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Wed Sep 25 18:00:42 UTC 2013 

This note is not in response to any particular note but just as explanation.  I am the moderator of this list but Dave Andrews is 
responsible for all NFBNET lists.  I didn't see his note before writing mine or I would have checked with him to be sure we were 
on the same page.  We probably have said all that needs saying on this, and please also remember that there is another list on 
NFBNET for persons using dog guides, and that would be a good resource for questions about dogs that do not include parenting 
issues.

I also want to add that my note in which I said that dogs were responsible for handlers and handlers for kids was written hastily 
and isn't really correct.  I do understand that the "handler" is really responsible for both, and my comment was only meant to 
imply that the dog's training was generally designed to include the handler.  Nobody wrote to correct me, and I appreciate the 
patience shown, but I did want to set the record straight on that.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 05:47:43 -0600, Sheila Leigland wrote:

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>    Hi I'm a dog user but chose to get a dog when our son was in middle
>    school. I wasn't comfortable getting a dog when Mark was small and
>    I'm not making a call as to whether this was right or wrong it was
>    just my choice. <br>
>    <br>
>    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/24/2013 6:21 PM, Erin Rumer wrote:<br>
>    </div>
>    <blockquote cite="mid:002a01ceb985$2964bda0$7c2e38e0$@gmail.com"
>      type="cite">
>      <pre wrap="">He wanted dog guide users opinion on a few things if you recall?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blparent [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org">mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
</a>] On Behalf Of Sean Paul
>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:56 PM
>To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blparent] [Bulk] Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her BabyFrom Being
>Hitby a Car

>I thought that Mr. Andrews asked late yesterday for this topic & thread to 
>be dropped?
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Erin Rumer" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:erinrumer at gmail.com"><erinrumer at gmail.com></a>
>To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:blparent at nfbnet.org"><blparent at nfbnet.org>
</a>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 17:51
>Subject: Re: [blparent] [Bulk] Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her BabyFrom Being 
>Hitby a Car


></pre>
>      <blockquote type="cite">
>        <pre wrap="">Yes, Steve I agree.  It is in no way a dog guide's responsibility to look
>after a child and if it happens in a troubled moment than that's a 
>miracle.
>My son is my responsibility and anything my dog might do to keep him safe 
>or
>help him is just icing on the cake.  Even now with my son not quite 3 yet,
></pre>
>      </blockquote>
>      <pre wrap="">
></pre>
>      <blockquote type="cite">
>        <pre wrap="">I
>explain to my son that my guide's job is to keep mommy safe so if he's
>holding my hand and walking by my side he needs to look ahead for 
>obstacles
>so he doesn't hit anything.  I'm fortunate that my guide is extremely in
>tune to my son and really looks out for him but this is in no way expected
>of him.

>Have a great day!

>Erin

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blparent [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org">mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
</a>] On Behalf Of Steve
>Jacobson
>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 6:46 AM
>To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blparent] [Bulk] Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her Baby From Being
>Hitby a Car

>Mostly, we seem to be working through this somewhat difficult topic. 
>While
>I would tend to leave turning in people to be investigated to others, I
>don't think it hurts to have a discussion surrounding this article as we
>have.  I find myself having the same concerns about this article expressed
>by others.  This article might be a good promotion for dog guides, but it
>really does nothing at all to help those of us who are blind parents, in
>fact I think it hurts us.  I think we have to be a little careful about
>making assumptions based upon the facts stated in this article, though. 
>Did
>the dog actually push the stroler out of the way or did the dog simply 
>halt
>their progress.  Was the car truly aiming right at them at the time?  Do 
>we
>know for certain that the mother wouldn't have successfully pulled the
>stroler back?  There was reference to the squeal of tires, so clearly the
>driver was trying to stop.  We don't really know if this happened as 
>written
>or if someone was looking for a dramatic feel-good story.
>For that reason, we really do need to be careful about judging the mother 
>in
>this case because we really cannot evaluate all of the facts.

>Having said that, and since it came up, I would appreciate it if those of
>you who use dog guides would explain to those of us who don't how anyone
>would expect a dog to physically move a stroler out of the path of a car.
>This is very different from alerting the person using the dog that they
>should stop.  A dog could even push is body against the handlers legs to
>make the point.
>However, it is extremely difficult to push a stroler with rubber wheels
>sideways in some cases.  If a school teaches someone to push the stroler
>when using a dog, that person can probably not be blamed for doing that, 
>but
>it is very hard for me to see this as a good practice.  I can see that 
>with
>a dog, the stroler is going to be covered better than it would be if I 
>were
>trying to push it and use my cane, but it still seems to me that there are
>unnecessary risks except in very familiar areas.  Somehow, it seems to me
>that a dog's responsibility should be to protect the handler, and the
>handler should be protecting the child in the stroler, not placing that
>responsibility on the dog.  How do those of you who use dogs see this?

>Let's continue to try to keep emotions in check as we have so far.

>Best regards,

>Steve Jacobson
>List Moderator

>On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:38:09 -0400, Tammy wrote:

></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <pre wrap="">I know some people who are blind who push their strollers ahead of them
>while using a guide dog and although I dont' agree with the practice,
>some schools teach their dogs to guide that way if necessary.  A
>stroller is much easier to push then to pull and maybe she felt 
>comfortable
></pre>
>        </blockquote>
>        <pre wrap="">pushing hers.

></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <pre wrap="">Tammy
>--Original Message-----
>From: Gabe Vega Via Iphone4S
>Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:14 AM
>To: Blind Parents Mailing List
>Cc: Blind Parents Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blparent] [Bulk] Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her Baby From
>Being Hitby a Car
></pre>
>        </blockquote>
>        <pre wrap="">
></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <pre wrap="">Was no one else asking themselves, what was this blind mother doing
>pushing her stroller I had of her when crossing a street, does this not
>place the baby in danger if she was totally blind? Sounds kind of funny
>to me, and I get the gist of the story is the capabilities and/or
>intuition of the guy dog, but I have more questions than answers at
>this point
></pre>
>        </blockquote>
>        <pre wrap="">
></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <pre wrap="">Gabe Vega
>Sent from my iPhone
>CEO
>Commtech LLC
>The leader of computer support, training and web development services
>Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://commtechusa.net">http://commtechusa.net</a>
>Twitter: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/commtechllc">http://twitter.com/commtechllc</a>
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>Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info at commtechusa.net">info at commtechusa.net</a>
>Phone: (888) 351-5289 Ext. 710
>Fax: (480) 535-7649
></pre>
>        </blockquote>
>        <pre wrap="">
></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <blockquote type="cite">
>            <pre wrap="">On Sep 23, 2013, at 6:52 AM, "Tammy" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tcl189 at rogers.com">
<tcl189 at rogers.com></a> wrote:

>Hi,

>Yes, all 3 of them.

>Tammy

>-----Original Message----- From: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
>Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 12:54 AM Subject: [Bulk] [blparent]
>Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her Baby From Being Hit by a Car

>Mom's Guide Dog Saves Her Baby From Being Hit by a Car by Mary
>Fischer Friday at 1:12 PM

>Mom Jessica Crowley is thanking her lucky stars after her guide dog
>saved her baby's life by pushing his stroller out of the way of a car
>that was heading straight for it.

>Jessica is registered blind, and her black lab, Jet, has been by her
>side for five years. While getting ready to cross the street pushing
>her son Jacob's stroller, she heard the screech of a car coming in
>their direction. And just before it hit, Jet broke loose from
>Jessica's grip and knocked the stroller out of the way. It did fall
>over and the baby wound up with a cut on his lip, but if it weren't
>for Jet's quick actions, something much worse could have happened.

>Jessica says that Jet loves little Jacob as if he were her own, which
>is evident based on how she reacted when she realized he was in
>danger. Who says a dog can't have mama bear instincts -- even if a
>human baby is the one she's trying to protect? It's amazing how even
>though she's trained to assist Jessica, she immediately switched gears
></pre>
>          </blockquote>
>        </blockquote>
>        <pre wrap="">and came to Jacob's rescue.
></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <blockquote type="cite">
>            <pre wrap="">
>I'm sure this mom keeps replaying what happened over and over again
>in her mind -- I know I would if my son had almost been hit by a car.
>And I don't know how I'd ever be able to give that dog enough love
>and praise to thank her for what she did -- though something tells me
>dogs do what they feel is right without expecting anything much in
></pre>
>          </blockquote>
>        </blockquote>
>        <pre wrap="">return.
></pre>
>        <blockquote type="cite">
>          <blockquote type="cite">
>            <pre wrap="">
>What a blessing it is that Jessica had Jet with her that day. I'm
>sure every time she hears her sweet baby boy's voice, she's once
>again reminded of what a gem of a dog she has in her life!

>Is your dog protective of your baby?


><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/161452/moms_guide_dog_saves_her">
http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/161452/moms_guide_dog_saves_her</a>

>Jo Elizabeth

>Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay,
>you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round
>and full at evening.--Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
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