[blparent] Sighted Interference

Wed Jul 6 06:47:01 UTC 2016

Hi, Wendy.  I've been told by friends of mine and by my boyfriend that my 
daughter can cast some pretty smirky looks when she wants to.  If her smart 
mouth is any indication, I'm not surprised.  I've told her a few times that 
dirty looks don't impress me--I can't see them anyway--and she's lost more 
than a few TV and computer privileges, days out with friends, etc, for 
having a disrespectful attitude.  I try to let consequences be as natural as 
possible.  For example, if she's sassy and snippy with me at home, how can I 
trust her to be polite and respectful at the houses of her friends?  If 
she's getting a lousy attitude all over the place, maybe it's because she's 
watching too much TV and losing touch with reality--and believe me, there's 
some truth to that.  If you listen closely to TV shows, there's a whole lot 
of snarkiness going on in many of them.

Jo Elizabeth

"The Bright Side of Darkness"
is my award-winning novel,
available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Wendy Meuse via BlParent
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:45 PM
To: Blind Parents Mailing List
Cc: Wendy Meuse
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Hi all:  I have heard people mention blindisms.  I had a very good 
girlfriend who unfortunately rocked and rocked and rocked on
whatever she happened to be sitting on.  I remember I did somewhat when I 
was little, but my mom said that people did not like that.
She got me a rocking chair though and said it was ok to rock in the rocking 
chair.  I still do rock if I happen to be sitting in a
rocking chair and listening to some good music.  When my friend was visiting 
with me and she would madly start rocking, I didn't say
anything, I just gently put my hand on her shoulder and she would stop. 
Noone was able to brake the habit though.  I understand Ray
Charles really rocked a lot.  It is common unfortunately.  u can't stop 
blindisms if you are not aware that you are doing something
like that.  At the school for the blind I went too, we had a very gentle 
house mother who would take us aside and talk to us.  She
didn't make us feel two inches high either.  She did so many fun things with 
us.  I remember when the Beatles first came out and
people were dancing with the show American bandstand or Dance Party, she 
would come to us who wanted to know the dance moves and she
would let us get down on our knees and feel what her feet were doing and 
then her hands and arms.  She was a real scream.  We just
loved her.  I don't know what made this pop into my head, but I have a 
question for some of you.  My daughter has children of her
own now, but I had ae real problem when Grace was little.I got ssome pretty 
bad complaints from the teachers about Grace giving them
dirty faces when they asked her to do something she did not want to do.  she 
would never talk back, but boy.  If looks could kill.
I didn't really know what to do about it and I am sure I missed lots of 
dirty looks.  Finally I ended up telling her, And by the
way.  If you are giving me any of your dirty looks, you might as well wipe 
them off of your face right now.  I'll find out about
them one way or another.  She sure did have a temper on her.  Sometimes 
being a single parent is hard.  all that being said, she was
usually a pretty good kid.  I am curious to know if any of you had this 
problem, and what did you do about it?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sharon Howerton via BlParent" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
To: "'Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Sharon Howerton" <shrnhow at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

I don't know her background, Michelle, so couldn't really respond to that.
She is around my age so mid-60's and if you live your life in a blind world
which I think she may have done--school for the blind, blind friends,
etc-who'd know. And over the many years I've worked in the blindness field,
these things were called "blindisms" and I don't know if sighted people
messed with that. I'd want to know if I was doing something strange and am
sure my mom in particular would have made no bones about telling me. So the
same friend who commented on this behavior has said to me, "You are the most
normal blind person I know." So there you are, but we don't know how we are
perceived by others all the time anyway.

Good to see your message, Michelle.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
Creedy via BlParent
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 6:46 PM
To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
Cc: Michelle Creedy
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Hi Sharon

Most likely, it would have held her back somewhat to rock because it really
does bother sighted people to look at that. I'm curious as to why a close
friend or family member didn't talk to her about it gently?

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sharon
Howerton via BlParent
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:19 AM
To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
Cc: Sharon Howerton
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
Sharon

-----Original Message-----
From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Bullis via BlParent
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
Cc: Michael Bullis
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
considered.  I found the session very helpful.
Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
daughter.
I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.

We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
all can benefit from.
I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
attention.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
Creedy via BlParent
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Hi Jo Elizabeth

I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
things just right.

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
To: Blind Parents Mailing List
Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
and future ones.

Jo Elizabeth

"The Bright Side of Darkness"
is my award-winning novel,
available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
Cc: Michelle Creedy
Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Hello Jo Elizabeth

Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
who I trust tell me they are just fine.

I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
the almighty vision!

I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
you. What a degrading experience!

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
To: Blind Parents Mailing List
Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference

Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
think, the better off they and their children will be.

My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
help did more harm than good.

I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
and protect my daughter from their boorishness.

Jo Elizabeth

"The Bright Side of Darkness"
is my award-winning novel,
available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
l.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
l.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
l.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/w_meuse%40telus.net

_______________________________________________
BlParent mailing list
BlParent at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
BlParent:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 