[blparent] Sighted Interference

Wed Jul 6 21:04:36 UTC 2016

Hello Joe Elizabeth,

Your mom sounds very much like mine!

JODY 🐺
thunderwalker321 at gmail.com

"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."  DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Jo Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent <blparent at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I believe my mom may have had some good intentions, combined with a healthy dose of poor parenting from her own childhood.  In any case, though her methods left a lot to be desired, she made me into a very determined person and a pretty competent member of sighted society.  I know how to eat without making a mess.  I know how to move about without being too clumsy, most times, and how to handle myself in a conversation without interrupting or monopolizing, touching people, or taking up other annoying habits that unfortunately, some blind people haven't been taught not to do.  I know very well that the world owes me nothing and that if I want something, I better get my butt out there and work for it.  I know that life isn't fair and I don't expect it to be.  I know that if I want something bad enough, the chasm between where I am now and where what I want is doesn't matter much. And I know that beauty can be found in some very dark places.  My mom taught me all of that--maybe on purpose and maybe in spite of herself.  That I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message----- From: Star Gazer via BlParent
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 7:14 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Star Gazer
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Sounds like, and you may not want to hear
> it, that your mom had the right concept but a very poor implementation. The
> other take is that she wanted to beat up on you and used any way she could
> to "get away" with it.
> As for your writer group, she sounds like a bully. I'd call her out on it,
> and I'd talk with your daughter about bullies, how they aren't confined to
> the schoolyard.
> Finally, I'd empower her and yourself if you haven't already to speak up.
> I've never understood or appreciated the "respect your elders". All people
> get respect just as all people are can loose respect and age has nothing to
> do with it. We all decide who is worthy of our respect based on our
> experiencewith them.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 8:33 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto <jopinto at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> I am quite aware of what my parents used to call "blindisms" or "looking
> blind."  They, especially my mother, wanted me to appear as sighted as
> possible in every way.  They couldn't keep me from being blind, much to
> their despair, but they sure did everything they could to keep me from
> looking blind.  I never picked up the habit of rocking because if I started
> doing it, I was likely to get slapped for it.  I learned the proper way to
> hold a spoon because if my mom caught me clutching one in my fist, she'd
> reach over and smack my knuckles with the handle of her knife or fork.  And
> if it took me too many times to get the message, she was known to turn the
> utensil around and make use of the business end.  I put in many a mile
> around the circle of our suburban home, from the living room, through the
> kitchen, down the hallway and back again, practicing a walk with a smooth,
> loose gait and no foot shuffling.  There would be no "blindisms" when I
> ventured out in public with my perfectionist family, by God.  So it wasn't
> easy for me to hear my OCD friend harp on my daughter--my sighted daughter,
> no less, especially because her premise was that the problem stemmed from
> the fact that I couldn't see.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sharon Howerton via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 11:19 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Sharon Howerton
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Interesting observations, Michael. I'd be curious to know some of the things
> your friend mentioned to you. A few months ago, I invited a blind couple to
> attend a concert with me. I'm certainly as blind as they are! I always
> thought the female of the pair was very nice--and still do. But after the
> concert and a meal with friends (all of us who were blind, you had to
> figure, were placed at the same table), a sighted friend of mine said
> something about one of the women. "She drove me crazy to look at her! She
> rocked all the time!" I'd have never known and felt badly for her as
> wondered if that kind of behavior held her back in her work or social life.
> Sharon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Bullis via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:07 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michael Bullis
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Much of what sighted people do is learned behaviour.  People observe one
> another and imitate.  Walking, talking, holding a fork, waving, hair styles,
> dancing, all of it is imitated behaviour.  There isn't technically a "right"
> way to hold a fork.  There is simply the way that most people do it.  I
> myself didn't learn to hold a fork the "socially acceptable" way until I was
> eight or nine.  I didn't even know I was doing it differently and I too
> found the new way seemed awkward.  But, I do admit that, after some practice
> it did seem to give me more control over the fork.
> I do think there is some value in teaching kids the generally socially
> acceptable way to do things unless they are the kind of kid who just wants
> to be a rebel.  Not doing things the socially acceptable way can be
> difficult for kids who don't like to be singled out.
> I grew up blind.  When I was eighteen or so, a friend said to me that I
> looked awkward in the ways I stood and sat.  I was fascinated by his
> observations so we set up an evening in which he showed me how sighted
> people do such things.  In some cases they were things I would have never
> considered.  I found the session very helpful.
> Needless to say, he was polite in bringing up the subject and didn't
> embarrass me in front of a large group as this annoying person did to your
> daughter.
> I became fascinated by all of these learned behaviours.  Interestingly, many
> things we think of as "natural" are simply learned.  Take walking for
> instance.  The very few instances we have of babies being raised by four
> legged animals such as wolves, bears or dogs have shown that these children
> never learn to walk.  In other words, when you see that one year old trying
> to stand and then walk, it's imitation, probably combined with some
> instinct, but instinct alone wouldn't get the job done.
> 
> We all know that too much imitation is unhealthy.  That's why we give our
> kids advice about not following the crowd.  But, there are social norms we
> all can benefit from.
> I'm just sorry you had such a rude person bring it to your daughter's
> attention.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle
> Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 10:21 AM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List' <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michelle Creedy <michelle.creedy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi Jo Elizabeth
> 
> I'm so glad you chatted with your daughter. It sounds like you handled
> things just right.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:06 AM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, Michelle.  I did speak to my daughter after the fact.  I told her that
> while by adulthood, most grown-ups no longer grasp spoons in their fists, it
> really didn't matter if she still held her spoon that way for now.  I said
> that she would have an easier time writing in school if she learned to hold
> her pencil properly, and once she mastered that, her spoon would follow
> naturally.  Be that as it may, it was inappropriate for my writer friends to
> bother her about how she ate her ice cream.  I apologized for not speaking
> up sooner and more firmly.  She admitted that she had been embarrassed and
> sad, and I said those feelings were very understandable.  What I was at a
> loss to come up with, at least out loud with my daughter, was a resolution
> of how to move forward from there, both with regards to the current incident
> and future ones.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Creedy via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 11:13 PM
> To: 'Blind Parents Mailing List'
> Cc: Michelle Creedy
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hello Jo Elizabeth
> 
> Wow, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It truly is amazing how sighted
> people feel it is their God-given right to tell us things they think we
> should hear. I have some folks in my life who often make comments about my
> clothes but when I go to my sister and ask her, my sister and best friend
> who I trust tell me they are just fine.
> 
> I'm wondering, have you had a chat with your daughter about this? It may be
> a good opportunity to explain to her about how others sometimes feel that
> they can interfear. Honestly, I know a lot of children with sighted parents
> who hold their spoon like your daughter does and no one says anything. I
> encourage you to also have a conversation with the writers without your
> daughter present and tell them how you felt when the feedback involved your
> daughter. Let them know that you have trusted friends and family to give you
> feedback and that they have all been asked to give it in a particular manner
> I.E. without your daughter present. I have had to draw a really hard line
> with the person of which I wrote in the last paragraph. I've literally had
> to make feedback rules for her and there are certain areas of my life where
> she simply may not offer feedback. This is because the feedback was given in
> front of my blind students who didn't understand it and then started talking
> among themselves and to their siblings about it. I had to get pretty firm.
> It is tough but it does help. I did wait until I'd cooled down a little and
> I ran through what I needed to say with a close friend because honestly, it
> really hurt to be treated like this which unfortunately you and your
> daughter found out yet again last week. People seem to think that because
> we're blind, they get to say whatever they like because they can see. Oh,
> the almighty vision!
> 
> I'm thinking of you. Please let us know how it goes. I'm thinking of both of
> you. What a degrading experience!
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlParent [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jo
> Elizabeth Pinto via BlParent
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 2:47 PM
> To: Blind Parents Mailing List
> Cc: Jo Elizabeth Pinto
> Subject: [blparent] Sighted Interference
> 
> Hi, all.  I regularly dealt with the issue of well-meaning sighted people
> interfering with my parenting when my daughter was a baby, but I thought the
> problem had pretty much resolved itself once she got too big to be
> irresistibly cute and learned to walk and talk.  Maybe I just have
> particularly busybody friends--I'm in a writing group where most of the
> members are quite a bit older than I am,  some with grandchildren my
> daughter's age--but sighted interference is an ongoing problem we all have
> to be on the lookout for .  It jumped up and bit me on the nose last week.
> This time it embarrassed my daughter, which infuriated me, whereas before
> she was too little to really know or care.  That makes the issue a thousand
> times more thorny now, which is why I decided to bring it up on the list,
> because the earlier disabled parents find a strategy for dealing with it, I
> think, the better off they and their children will be.
> 
> My daughter and I were out to lunch at Dairy Queen with some of the members
> of my writing group.  One of the authors, in my opinion, is quite obsessive
> about everything, including my blindness.  She once told me in front of
> everyone that there's a right way to eat a cupcake, and I wasn't eating mine
> correctly because you're supposed to eat it from the side and I was eating
> mine from the top.  Of course, she said, I wouldn't know that because I
> can't see.  I was slightly peeved with the self-appointed Miss Manners, but
> I laughed it off and said I always was a rebel.  There are a lot more
> examples of her saying things like that.  That particular author had been
> invaluable in helping me get my book published, so I didn't feel I could
> ruffle her feathers too much.  Anyway, toward the end of the lunch, my
> daughter was enjoying her cherry sundae, and the same author told her she
> was holding her spoon the wrong way.  She said my daughter still held her
> spoon in her fist, like a boy, instead of in three fingers, like a proper
> little girl.  My daughter got embarrassed, and I was appalled.  First of
> all, my daughter is eight.  So what if she holds her spoon in her fist?
> Lots of kids do.  Maybe she's a little old for that, but to go on and on
> about how boys shovel their ice cream in and girls eat nicely, and if she
> didn't learn the right way to hold a spoon, the kids at school would make
> fun of her, and her mom couldn't see to show her the right way.  Then two
> other grandparent-aged writers at the table joined in to try and "help."  My
> daughter tried to hold her spoon their way, but it felt funny to her, so she
> said she couldn't do it.  At that point, I intervened--I had been quite
> shocked and appalled before that, and to my shame, it took me a few moments
> to find my voice--I put up a menu around my daughter's place at the table
> and said it didn't matter how she held her spoon and she was going to eat
> her sundae in peace without everybody watching her.  She was too
> overwhelmed, though, and said she was full and didn't want her ice cream.
> Her cherry sundae, which is her favorite thing in the world, was spoiled.
> She wouldn't eat it; she gave it to me.  I didn't say anything else, but
> looking back, I wish I would have.  I wish I would have asked them how dare
> they ruin my daughter's dessert.  I wish I would have told the instigator
> that if she was really concerned with the way my child held her spoon, she
> could have spoken to me privately about it instead of making it a public
> issue for the whole table.  I wish I would have told them all that their
> help did more harm than good.
> 
> I will have to decide if I should say anything to them when we meet again
> this week.  I don't know if I can make them see that they made a mistake,
> especially the obsessive one.  My other choice is just to be very vigilant
> and protect my daughter from their boorishness.
> 
> Jo Elizabeth
> 
> "The Bright Side of Darkness"
> is my award-winning novel,
> available in Kindle, audio, and paperback formats at Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/michelle.creedy%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/bullis.michael%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/shrnhow%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmai
> l.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/jopinto%40msn.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlParent mailing list
> BlParent at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlParent:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/thunderwalker321%40gmail.com