[Colorado-talk] Colorado-talk Digest, Vol 74, Issue 19

Tue Oct 30 20:56:07 UTC 2012

Dear Members

The National Federation of the Blind of Colorado would URGE YOU NOT TO SIGN
ONTO THIS PETITION!  At the 2012 National Convention we adopted a resolution
calling on the Braille Authority of North America to adopt the UEB for
literary braille and to maintain the Nemeth code as the code for math and
science. THAT IS NOW FEDERATION POLICY!  

By our constitution Federationist are prohibited from taking a public
position which is in direct contradiction to the policy that has been voted
on by the membership.  Utilizing this list to circulate this petition
directly contradicts Federation policy, gives the FALSE impression that we
support the petition, and is a misuse of our e-mail distribution system.  

PLEASE DO NOT SIGN THIS PETITION.  Also, we would ask that people who send
information out on OUR database be mindful of OUR policies!  Additionally,
this list was set up to distribute information SPECIFIC to NFB of Colorado.
If you have not been authorized to post messages to Colorado Talk by the
president, please send information to lriddle at cocenter.org and she will
discriminate the information accordingly.    

Best Wishes

Jessica Beecham
Chapter and Community Development Coordinator
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
2233 West Shepperd Ave.
Littleton, CO 80120
jbeecham at nfbco.org
303-778-1130 extension 223
www.nfbco.org
720-440-2632

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Subject: Colorado-talk Digest, Vol 74, Issue 19

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Today's Topics:

   1. Petition to preserve the nemeth Uniform Braille	system
      (Antonio Guimaraes)
   2. Re: Colorado Association of Blind Students	Convention
      Registration (Arielle Silverman)
   3. Re: [Cabs-talk] Petition to preserve the nemeth	Uniform
      Braille system (Steve Jacobson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:56:27 -0400
From: Antonio Guimaraes <freethaught at gmail.com>
To: writers-chat at nfbnet.org, vendtalk at nfbnet.org,
	travelandtourism at nfbnet.org, 	social-sciences-list at nfbnet.org,
	tn-talk at nfbnet.org, sd-talk at nfbnet.org, 	rehab at nfbnet.org,
	reader-users at nfbnet.org, promotion-technology at nfbnet.org,
	pibe-division at nfbnet.org, perform-talk at nfbnet.org,
	ohio-talk at nfbnet.org,	nfbv-discuss at nfbnet.org,
blparent at nfbnet.org,
	nfbok-talk at nfbnet.org, 	nfbofnc at nfbnet.org, nfbmo at nfbnet.org,
	nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org,	nfbmd at nfbnet.org, 	nfbk at nfbnet.org,
	nfbj at nfbnet.org, ct-nfb at nfbnet.org, nfbf-l at nfbnet.org,
	cabs-talk at nfbnet.org, nfbc-info at nfbnet.org, nfbaz-talk at nfbnet.org,
	blind-gov-muster at nfbnet.org, nfb_of_georgia at nfbnet.org,
	nfb-web at nfbnet.org, 	nfb-announce at nfbnet.org,
nfb-utah at nfbnet.org,
	nfb-science at nfbnet.org, 	nfb-or at nfbnet.org, nabop at nfbnet.org,
	nfb-new-hampshire at nfbnet.org, 	nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org,
	nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org,	blindmath at nfbnet.org,
nfb-history at nfbnet.org,
	nfb-hi at nfbnet.org, nfb-db at nfbnet.org, 	nfb-arkansas at nfbnet.org,
	nfb-cars at nfbnet.org, nagdu at nfbnet.org,
	blind-international-students at nfbnet.org, nd-talk at nfbnet.org,
	colorado-talk at nfbnet.org, nabentre at nfbnet.org, aebteam at nfbnet.org,
	journalists at nfbnet.org, jobs at nfbnet.org, il-talk at nfbnet.org,
	humanser at nfbnet.org, blind-cooks at nfbnet.org, faith-talk at nfbnet.org,
	fabs at nfbnet.org, diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org, blindlaw at nfbnet.org,
	4alabama at nfbnet.org
Cc: freethaught at gmail.com
Subject: [Colorado-talk] Petition to preserve the nemeth Uniform
	Braille	system
Message-ID:
	<CAN-1jw0zfOfG5FY3wwaL1s7ZkdiJPbLudgrb5W2cqMASzemVsg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Dear reader,

I would like to bring your attention to a petition concerning changes to the
Braille system in the United States.

The Braille Authority of North America will vote to adopt the Unified
English Braille this November. The body will likely retain the Nemeth code
for use in math and the sciences, but will change Braille in this country to
reflect adoption of the Unified English Braille used in other countries.

BANA has given little effort and thoughtful consideration to Dr.
Abraham Nemeth?s most recent \work to make American Braille uniform.

It is my opinion that BANA is more concerned with unification of Braille
with other English-speaking countries than the impact changes will have on
education of all blind people who will study math and science.

However, uniformity is vastly more important than unification. This is
especially true considering that the Nemeth code is unique to the United
States, and enables blind children to excel in their chosen career paths in
the hard sciences.

The Nemeth Uniform Braille System, NUBS, is the most up-to-date revision to
the Nemeth code in use today. It makes American Braille usage uniform, and
incorporates changes to the Nemeth code revision of
40 years ago.

BANA is moving towards adopting an older, outdated version of the Nemeth
code available.

Please sign a petition to preserve NUBS, and move blindness education on a
path to excellence. Let?s bring the Nemeth system into the 21st century.
Let?s give blind people a competitive edge. Let?s move together towards one
Braille system for all Americans. Let?s preserve NUBS.

The petition is available here:

http://www.change.org/petitions/braille-authority-of-north-america-adopt-a-b
raille-code-that-supports-general-and-technical-readers

Sincerely,

Antonio Guimaraes

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 20:22:07 -0600
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: Colorado Association of Blind Students List <cabs at nfbnet.org>,
	colorado-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Colorado-talk] Colorado Association of Blind Students
	Convention Registration
Message-ID:
	<CALAYQJBu0s=RvaaSdfonfTi=cs8z7qpJnx625C4jKOh3dzn0Yg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear CABS members,
The Colorado Association of Blind Students (CABS) will be holding a seminar
and annual business meeting on Saturday, October 27, during the convention
of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in Boulder. In order to
be eligible to vote in the elections and participate in CABS business, you
will need to have your $5 dues paid before the start of the meeting. To save
time, we encourage you to register for the CABS meeting and pay your dues in
advance by going to
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8NH6YPU
LNG7T2
All those who register before Friday, Oct. 26 will be entered into a special
prize drawing.
Best and see you at the convention,
Arielle Silverman, Secretary, CABS

On 10/9/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear CABS members,
> The Colorado Association of Blind Students (CABS) will be holding a 
> seminar and annual business meeting on Saturday, October 27, during 
> the convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in 
> Boulder. In order to be eligible to vote in the elections and 
> participate in CABS business, you will need to have your $5 dues paid 
> before the start of the meeting. To save time, we encourage you to 
> register for the CABS meeting and pay your dues in advance by going to
> https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8
> NH6YPULNG7T2 All those who register before Friday, Oct. 26 will be 
> entered into a special prize drawing.
> Best and see you at the convention,
> Arielle Silverman, Secretary, CABS
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:52:20 -0500
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "4alabama at nfbnet.org" <4alabama at nfbnet.org>,	"aebteam at nfbnet.org"
	<aebteam at nfbnet.org>,	"Antonio Guimaraes" <freethaught at gmail.com>,
	"blind-cooks at nfbnet.org" <blind-cooks at nfbnet.org>,
	"blind-gov-muster at nfbnet.org" <blind-gov-muster at nfbnet.org>,
	"blind-international-students at nfbnet.org"
	<blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>,
"blindlaw at nfbnet.org"
	<blindlaw at nfbnet.org>,	"blindmath at nfbnet.org"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>,
	"blparent at nfbnet.org" <blparent at nfbnet.org>,
"cabs-talk at nfbnet.org"
	<cabs-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"colorado-talk at nfbnet.org"
	<colorado-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"ct-nfb at nfbnet.org"
<ct-nfb at nfbnet.org>,
	"diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org" <diabetes-talk at nfbnet.org>,
	"fabs at nfbnet.org" <fabs at nfbnet.org>,	"faith-talk at nfbnet.org"
	<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"humanser at nfbnet.org"
<humanser at nfbnet.org>,
	"il-talk at nfbnet.org" <il-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"jobs at nfbnet.org"
	<jobs at nfbnet.org>,	"journalists at nfbnet.org"
<journalists at nfbnet.org>,
	"nabentre at nfbnet.org" <nabentre at nfbnet.org>,	"nabop at nfbnet.org"
	<nabop at nfbnet.org>,	"nagdu at nfbnet.org" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>,
	"nd-talk at nfbnet.org" <nd-talk at nfbnet.org>,
"nfb_of_georgia at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb_of_georgia at nfbnet.org>,	"nfb-announce at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-announce at nfbnet.org>,	"nfb-arkansas at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-arkansas at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbaz-talk at nfbnet.org"
	<nfbaz-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"nfb-cars at nfbnet.org"
<nfb-cars at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfbc-info at nfbnet.org" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>,	"nfb-db at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-db at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbf-l at nfbnet.org" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfb-hi at nfbnet.org" <nfb-hi at nfbnet.org>,
"nfb-history at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-history at nfbnet.org>,	"nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbj at nfbnet.org" <nfbj at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfbk at nfbnet.org" <nfbk at nfbnet.org>,
"nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbmd at nfbnet.org"
	<nfbmd at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org"
<nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfbmo at nfbnet.org" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>,
"nfb-new-hampshire at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-new-hampshire at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbofnc at nfbnet.org"
	<nfbofnc at nfbnet.org>,	"nfbok-talk at nfbnet.org"
<nfbok-talk at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfb-or at nfbnet.org" <nfb-or at nfbnet.org>,
"nfb-science at nfbnet.org"
	<nfb-science at nfbnet.org>,	"nfb-utah at nfbnet.org"
<nfb-utah at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfbv-discuss at nfbnet.org" <nfbv-discuss at nfbnet.org>,
	"nfb-web at nfbnet.org" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>,
"ohio-talk at nfbnet.org"
	<ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"perform-talk at nfbnet.org"
	<perform-talk at nfbnet.org>,	"pibe-division at nfbnet.org"
	<pibe-division at nfbnet.org>,	"promotion-technology at nfbnet.org"
	<promotion-technology at nfbnet.org>,	"reader-users at nfbnet.org"
	<reader-users at nfbnet.org>,	"rehab at nfbnet.org"
<rehab at nfbnet.org>,
	"sd-talk at nfbnet.org" <sd-talk at nfbnet.org>,
	"social-sciences-list at nfbnet.org" <social-sciences-list at nfbnet.org>,
	"tn-talk at nfbnet.org" <tn-talk at nfbnet.org>,
	"travelandtourism at nfbnet.org" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>,
	"vendtalk at nfbnet.org" <vendtalk at nfbnet.org>,
"writers-chat at nfbnet.org"
	<writers-chat at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Colorado-talk] [Cabs-talk] Petition to preserve the
	nemeth	Uniform Braille system
Message-ID: <auto-000010124712 at mailback4.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Antonio,

You and I tried to talk this out last summer at the convention, and I
recognize that we probably failed to change one another's mind.  This is a
complicated issue, and people should voice their opinions, but it just isn't
as simple as you are portraying it here.

First, readers need to know that NUBS is not just the most modern version of
Nemeth Code.  It is a braille code that includes literary braille as well
and, like UEB, it changes literary braille as well.  In my opinion, and this
is definitely a subjective judgement, NUBS has a greater impact on Literary
braille than does UEB, so readers need to understand that NUBS would also
change the braille that is read every day and not just affect math.  Readers
may want to be sure they know what they are getting before making up their
minds on this.  There have been many opportunities over the past decade or
more to participate in studies of both NUBS and UEB, something I have done,
so this is not really debate that is all that new.

You also did not mention that it is no longer just BANA who is talking about
using UEB for literary braille and retaining Nemeth for technical and
mathematical subjects.  We passed a resolution to that effect at our NFB
convention last summer, the very convention where you and I talked about
this.  
I also understand that the ACB passed something similar.  To leave that out
of your note seems to me to be very incomplete.  A lot of us have studied
this at great length, and it is true that we don't all agree, but I believe
people need to sign any petition from a perspective of understanding the two
codes and not out of fear or partial information.

Finally if a decision is made on this, even if that position is one you do
not like such as adopting UEB for literary braille and retaining Nemeth
Code, we can then give some good consideration to how Nemeth can be
modernized, and I think that is something we should do.  However, the Nemeth
Code is not all that bad as it is.

In my opinion, the big intent of a uniform code has been to standardize on
upper and lower numbers.  I felt this was important at one time but now see
that to do that either impacts literary braille or math braille that I feel
has more drawbacks than what is gained by uniform numbers.  We're used to
numbers being upper in literary braille and lower in math, so I just don't
see the point in trying to solve that problem by adopting NUBS for literary
braille or UEB for math.  Keeping the Nemeth Code for math and using UEB for
literary braille makes complete sense to me and I supported the resolution
that we passed on this last summer.  Braille just has to move forward, and
while NUBS was finalized fairly recently, many of us have been aware of NUBS
all along and have been following its development with interest but just
feel a UEB/Nemeth approach makes the most sense.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:56:27 -0400, Antonio Guimaraes wrote:

>Dear reader,

>I would like to bring your attention to a petition concerning changes 
>to the Braille system in the United States.

>The Braille Authority of North America will vote to adopt the Unified 
>English Braille this November. The body will likely retain the Nemeth 
>code for use in math and the sciences, but will change Braille in this 
>country to reflect adoption of the Unified English Braille used in 
>other countries.

>BANA has given little effort and thoughtful consideration to Dr.
>Abraham Nemeths most recent \work to make American Braille uniform.

>It is my opinion that BANA is more concerned with unification of 
>Braille with other English-speaking countries than the impact changes 
>will have on education of all blind people who will study math and 
>science.

>However, uniformity is vastly more important than unification. This is 
>especially true considering that the Nemeth code is unique to the 
>United States, and enables blind children to excel in their chosen 
>career paths in the hard sciences.

>The Nemeth Uniform Braille System, NUBS, is the most up-to-date 
>revision to the Nemeth code in use today. It makes American Braille 
>usage uniform, and incorporates changes to the Nemeth code revision of
>40 years ago.

>BANA is moving towards adopting an older, outdated version of the 
>Nemeth code available.

>Please sign a petition to preserve NUBS, and move blindness education 
>on a path to excellence. Lets bring the Nemeth system into the 21st 
>century. Lets give blind people a competitive edge. Lets move 
>together towards one Braille system for all Americans. Lets preserve 
>NUBS.

>The petition is available here:

>http://www.change.org/petitions/braille-authority-of-north-america-adop
>t-a-braille-code-that-supports-general-and-technical-readers

>Sincerely,

>Antonio Guimaraes

>_______________________________________________
>Cabs-talk mailing list
>Cabs-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Cabs-talk:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%4
>0visi.com

------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of Colorado-talk Digest, Vol 74, Issue 19
*********************************************