[Colorado-Talk] my thoughts on living the life you want
Dianna Alley
dianna24 at earthlink.net
Sun Jan 12 03:42:52 UTC 2020
I figured it would come to this because anytime people decide to not agree with the center and stuff we are "arguing" I respect all choices myself, but there needs to be options in communities so people have more of an informed choice, but not sure if that will ever change. The NFB should not be the only philosophy being put down people's throats in some cases no more than the regular public school in Chicago for example. We are having a similar issue with charter schools and regular public schools in Chicago, and union verses nonunion in a lot of cases. In other words going to a center should be a true choice just like we should have true educational choices with our children.
-----Original Message-----
From: Maurice mines <mmines1 at icloud.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 6:46 PM
To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Dianna Alley <dianna24 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Colorado-Talk] my thoughts on living the life you want
Good afternoon, all I can say is this, to go to an NFB center is a choice! That’s the best way it was put to me many moons ago when I went to the Colorado Center for the blind. This is not to say a state-supported center is bad it’s just that our three centers are centers that survive because of client choice. I hear a lot of talk about changing our centers and frankly that’s what makes them great. I think at this stage of it that one should agree to disagree on this one point, I also think that we can disagree but still respect the other guy’s opinion. But at the end of the day these facts still remain, one I respect Jenny, and/or Jennifer opinion. But I also believe she should respect the majority of us I believe on this list that either are Colorado Center graduates who are reading this list from afar. In this case I am in California. And those of the list who were in Colorado and/or are potentially called auto center current students. I prefer to look on the bright side of days that it’s a good discussion to have.
But there comes a point when arguing just for the sake of arguing does no one any good and creates bad feelings that don’t need to be.
In other words I made a choice many moons ago and if I had to do it all over again I would make the same choice. And I’ll say this and I’m going to leave it at that I trust people like Julie, Diane and the late Ray McGeorge then and now. I’m a graduate that still very much believes in the mission of the center. It disheartened me if we go down the road of blaming and attacking good people. Long story short, enough is enough I think this thread unless something positive gets that has run its course. Sharing is great but attacking I don’t wish to be involved in.
Maurice Mines, Board Member
National Federation of the Blind Deaf-Blind Division
Email: board4 at nfbdeaf-blind.org <mailto:board4 at nfbdeaf-blind.org>
Website: www.nfbdeaf-blind.org <http://www.nfbdeaf-blind.org> Live the life you want.
The National Federation of the Blind Deaf-Blind Division, a proud division of the National Federation of the Blind, is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want.
On 11 Jan 2020, at 15:53, Dianna Alley via Colorado-Talk wrote:
> I take issue with sleep shades being compared to a textbook in
> college because they are two different things. Not to mention sighted
> people that are using the same textbooks are not being forced to do
> stuff they do not want to do all in the name of blind skills training
> an confidence building. Maybe some folks need this, but not all. I
> am pretty sure most need some type of skills though to get through
> life an should be able to use all the tools in their tool box and this
> includes vision if they have it. We will never when this battle
> though because if you choose an NFB center or a center ran similar
> then you choose their doctrines at least while you are there. You do
> know them up front and no matter what they say for marketing purposes,
> they are not going to change or minimize them for anyone.
> Organizations in general schools included tell people what they want
> to hear for the most part. Their goal is to make whatever they are
> marketing appealing. Otherwise no one would do whatever it is, and
> they would go out of business. This goes for the NFB as well. You
> have to have people to have an organization. The NFB does enough good
> so to speak they will always have followers. Otherwise, you find a
> center that fits your style of learning or you learn yourself as you
> go. Life experience does teach believe it or not. I will compare the
> public education system to the Federation centers in that you do what
> they say or choose other options. Like it or not, these centers do
> force people indirectly to do what they want them to do sometimes
> because for some people depending on where they live if they want any
> training at all they may feel they have no choice, but to do what the
> NFB says, and that is scary. That is also not totally the NFB's
> doing, but it can be a byproduct unfortunately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colorado-Talk <colorado-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of
> Jenny Perdue via Colorado-Talk
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 2:51 PM
> To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jenny Perdue <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Colorado-Talk] my thoughts on living the life you want
>
> Well, I have no residual vision so wearing sleep she is absolutely
> stupid. Plus, I have neurological issues. those really do exist it’s
> not just an excuse.
>
> Yes, I understand the NFB is not for everyone. But that’s the case,
> the NFB has absolutely no right to say that there’s a voice to the
> blind. Because there’s a voice of the NFB blind. Not all of us.
>
>
>
> Jenny
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 11, 2020, at 12:55 PM, Ryan O via Colorado-Talk
>> <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello, Colorado!
>>
>> Greetings from Nebraska, where the temperature is 6 degrees and we
>> just endured our first major snow of the season. Yes, I’m rubbing it
>> in. You guys deserve it after stealing the Baldwins from us.
>>
>> I still miss Denver and all of you terribly (except Kevan, of course)
>> and long for the days when the climate and public transit were more
>> temperate.
>>
>> I’ve been following this thread for the past week with great
>> interest. Frankly, I was glad to see that someone raised the issue.
>> For many of us outside of the leadership ring of the Federation,
>> there has been a growing perception of a widening disconnect between
>> the leadership and the general rank-and-file movement. The
>> Federation has always emphasized leadership, of course, and it’s
>> top-down style has engendered criticism over the decades. Perhaps
>> nothing has changed. Perhaps the leadership is the same as it has
>> always been. Or, perhaps the emergence of social media as a dominant
>> force has magnified the cracks that have always existed in the NFB
>> armor. Or, perhaps it merely gives our critics a larger megaphone
>> with which to shout at us.
>>
>> I think that there is a kernel of truth in all of these
>> possibilities. Whatever the case, this is a conversation that needs
>> to happen.
>>
>> I found Scott’s remarks on the branding process to be of particular
>> interest. I shamelessly acknowledge that I am a free market
>> capitalist. That said, I think it is a mistake for the NFB to take a
>> corporatist approach to our messaging. We are a non-profit
>> organization, not for-profit. The methods by which we recruit and
>> motivate our membership should be entirely different than that of a
>> for-profit enterprise.
>>
>> My criticism of the slogan itself can best be summed up by a friend
>> of mine (who shall remain anonymous) who said that our new slogan,
>> “Live the life you want,” sounds like the tagline of an ad that you
>> would see for a retirement community. His/her critique is profound.
>> Even though a select group of people chose this slogan, there is
>> nothing in it that really stands out as uniquely NFB.
>>
>> I was a fan of our prior slogan, “Changing what it means to be
>> blind.” I thought it was simple, direct, accurate and most important
>> of all, it contained the word, “Blind,” within the slogan.
>>
>> I have a larger point in bringing this up. This is the first time
>> I’ve expressed my view about our slogan on any platform, or in any
>> venue. No one asked me my thoughts when we adopted the slogan a few
>> years ago. The first I ever heard of it was in the summer of 2014
>> when a group of us filmed a video singing around the piano in the CCB
>> lobby for publication on the NFB YouTube channel. By then, it was
>> already our official slogan. I don’t recall any discussion of it at
>> chapter meetings, on list serves, at conventions or in casual
>> conversations with NFB leaders.
>>
>> This is why I was glad that Jenny wrote the message that she did. I
>> believe that the leadership needs to hear feedback like this from
>> outside of their comfort zone. Unfortunately, we now live in a time
>> when like-minded people seem to congregate together, excising those
>> with whom they disagree from their sphere of interaction. This
>> phenomenon has created an echo chamber effect. If the leadership has
>> always been this way, our recent shift toward further societal and
>> cultural polarization has probably exacerbated the problem. This is
>> why I think Jenny’s message was healthy and necessary.
>>
>> Before I continue, I’m going to take a fit break in honor of Jessica
>> and Maureen.
>>
>> I’m back now. My fit break consisted of me getting up, stretching,
>> then going to the kitchen for a root beer. If you ladies don’t feel
>> that this was adequate, take heart in the knowledge that it’s a diet
>> root beer.
>>
>> Talking of comfort zones brings me to my next point. Jenny, while I
>> applauded your initial message, I do feel that you and others have
>> subsequently muddied it more than a bit.
>>
>> It’s one thing to criticize the Colorado leadership for their
>> approach to state conventions. These are conversations that the
>> leadership has been holding for some years now. Like national, I
>> think they need input from those outside of their comfort bubble.
>> That said, criticizing a policy at the CCB is quite a different
>> matter.
>>
>> Here’s where I acknowledge a bias. While I am increasingly skeptical
>> of our national leadership, I have great heart for the mission, the
>> staff and the students at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I
>> worked there for three-and-a-half months and it was enough to scar me
>> for life. That aside, unlike a random, superficial slogan, the CCB
>> is transforming our high-sounding words into concrete action. They
>> aren’t merely changing what it means to be blind; they are
>> illustrating one course of action for doing so. The sleep shades are
>> an integral component to this. Anyone can use their residual vision
>> for everyday tasks, but it is quite another proposition to go outside
>> of your comfort zone in order to experience an alternative,
>> non-visual method of performing an ordinary task such as crossing a
>> street, frying bacon or hammering a nail. The use of the shades is a
>> compulsory means of pushing a student into that mode of learning.
>>
>> Maryann kind of stole my thunder on this point. I will merely echo
>> what she suggested and urge you to study your rights as a consumer;
>> rights that the NFB was instrumental in defining. As blind
>> consumers, choice is a right that we all have, but the choice of the
>> CCB to implement a curriculum that aligns with its philosophy is just
>> as important as your right to choose as an individual.
>>
>> If you want to criticize the leadership for their messaging or their
>> convention agendas, fine. More power to you. This is a relatively
>> new conversation and it is worth having. If you want to take issue
>> with the sleep shades, the long cane, the importance of braille, etc,
>> just know that folks like Diane, Julie, Dan and Brent have been
>> weathering storms of criticisms surrounding these issues for decades.
>> Their arguments are well-honed and have withstood the test of time.
>>
>> Finally, I will toss out the Nebraska state motto; a slogan that has
>> proven somewhat controversial.
>>
>> “Nebraska: It’s not for everyone.”
>>
>> The simple truth is that the NFB could adopt this same slogan. The
>> Federation approach is not for everyone. I know the leadership is
>> resistant to this reality, but that doesn’t change it. Yet, our
>> presence is vital as an option for those who wish to pursue their
>> growth and independence as blind people living in the world. If
>> choice is a basic human right, the NFB must be a choice.
>>
>> On the other hand, if the leadership is not effectively communicating
>> that choice, it is incumbent upon them to modify their outreach. I
>> believe that such modification depends upon honest dialogue, not that
>> which is manufactured and controlled by a mere few.
>>
>> Sorry for the length of this message. I’m off now for another fit
>> break; Sam Adams and a cigar. Love y’all.
>>
>> … Except Kevan, of course.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Ryan Osentowski
>>
>> http://www.conservativeblindguy.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Colorado-Talk [mailto:colorado-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Maryann Migliorelli via Colorado-Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 11:27 AM
>> To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List
>> Cc: Maryann Migliorelli
>> Subject: Re: [Colorado-Talk] my thoughts on living the life you want
>>
>> Hi Jenny, it is absolutely worth a conversation to talk to Julie or
>> someone at the center and explain what things you believe you can
>> want to. The centers certainly are able to adjust the requirements to
>> meet somebody’s needs. As far as things like sleep, shades it’s best
>> to think of them as just part of the curriculum. You couldn’t go to a
>> college and say ”I want to graduate but I don’t want to use the
>> textbook you’re providing.” I’m not saying this specifically to you
>> but the others were thinking about canes and sleep shades. I think
>> about it like attending the physics class and saying, ”That’s great,
>> but I don’t want to use the physics
>> textbook you have.” It wouldn’t be accepted. Most people do
>> have some choices about which centers too attend.You can choose a
>> Center anywhere in the country if you can justify why you need that
>> over another place. It is not easy, but it is part of the freedom of
>> choice act.
>> On another subject entirely I’m very proud to hear of your volunteer
>> accomplishments. Are you aware that we have a community service
>> division? It sounds like something you should really consider
>> joining. Any of the activities are by phone.
>>
>>
>> Being a homemaker is certainly a good profession, even though
>> vocational rehab doesn’t consider it so. There used to be a time when
>> their were services or people whowork at home taking care of
>> families. Perhaps we can look into that again as an organization and
>> ensure that Blind parents are able to get skills that they need and
>> technology that facilitates then being at home.
>> Scott, please think as I do that using assistance and crossing cards
>> is certainly a choice. There certainly is an opposite choice which is
>> much less desire such as staying home or completely relying on
>> somebody to do what you need for you. Either way living the life you
>> want is about making your own choices instead of having somebody
>> make them for you
>>
>> I apologize for the length of the message and several subjects, but I
>> wanted to get them all in while I am making the choice to ride a
>> greyhound from New York City to Albany. Have a wonderful day.
>> At your service,
>> Sent from Maryann Migliorelli's iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 5:58 AM, Jenny Perdue via Colorado-Talk
>>> <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Melissa, I enjoyed your comments greatly.
>>>
>>> Yes you’re told the requirements for CCB, but if you can’t be under
>>> sleep shade, if there are things that you can’t do. You shouldn’t
>>> just be booted out because you don’t meet the requirements.
>>>
>>> I thought if anyone the NFB‘s Colorado Center for the blind would be
>>> Accommodating and such as that. I have never called, because
>>> honestly, all the centers for the blind sound like their run very
>>> similarly and I don’t think that I would really be able to do it.
>>>
>>> Everybody doesn’t fit in a box. And that includes those of us with
>>> multiple health problems.
>>>
>>> I am so grateful for this Dialogue, conversation. Thank everybody
>>> for being so wonderful and understanding. Even the thoughts that we
>>> don’t agree on, we can still respect them.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2020, at 7:15 PM, Melissa R. Green via Colorado-Talk
>>>>> <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First, thank you Scott. For sharing your views and the background.
>>>> Now, I will share my thoughts, and then continue to comment and
>>>> read, as webbl as live the life I want.
>>>> Growing up, I got little mentions of the NFB. Like many I got the
>>>> little callendars in braille. My teachers would give it to me.' as
>>>> a gift.
>>>> I didn't really know about the NFB until 1992.
>>>> I had made up my mind that I was not going to be in any more
>>>> organizations. I was leaving the ACB. I was done.
>>>> So I sat at the table with my aunt and a couple of people that I
>>>> had met. While Peggy Pinder, at that time, walked around the room,
>>>> and my aunt whispering in my ear about her.
>>>> I didn't like it. But, Peggy came over and spent time with me.
>>>> Thats where I met my cousin who was a leader in the federation. I
>>>> did join.
>>>> I read the braille monitor. I kept reaning it when I moved back to
>>>> NewJersey.
>>>> No matter how depressed or upset I got about the commission not
>>>> helping me, I stikl kept reading the braille monitor, and teaching
>>>> myself things like computers.
>>>> As well as talking with my cousin. Him encouraging and listening
>>>> and making suggestions.
>>>> One day I got a cabbl, from Mrs. Maurer. She told me about the
>>>> centers. I got a better response from Diane Mcgeorge.
>>>> Smile! We started working me getting to CCB.
>>>> After, the NFB of NJ president, joined the reverend moon church,
>>>> and lots ot talks with Duncan, and asked to consider mo"ing to
>>>> Colorado.
>>>> I moved and yes as the youngest, my mom came with me. I got flack
>>>> for that, but it worked out.
>>>> For me it was more than river rafting, cooking a big meal, and rock
>>>> climbing. I learned that the center gives you choices and the
>>>> training is tools in my tool box.
>>>> We had many students that had other disabilities. Their program was
>>>> indevidualized. The staff worked to help these students. One
>>>> student had a stroke. It was other diffeculties that were hendering
>>>> her, the staff didn't kick her to the can-rb, they found other
>>>> programs for her. Nother student graduated and recieved his bell. I
>>>> tell you all of this because, CCB will try, and sometimes they have
>>>> a comversation about if this program will work for the person. As
>>>> someone that is human, I get tired of people blaming the center for
>>>> the program. You are told the requirements, and if not, then it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have a enjoyable and blessed day.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Melissa R. Green and Pj
>>>> "If you have a goal, make it something you strive to accomplish. If
>>>> you have a hope, then hope for it with all your heart.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Scott C. LaBarre via Colorado-Talk <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: colorado-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: 01/07/2020 5:02 pm
>>>> Subject: [Colorado-Talk] my thoughts on living the life you want
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, I want to wish everyone here a very happy new year!
>>>>> My hope is that 2020 will be outstanding for all of us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, I want to thank Jenny for raising the topic of what our
>>>>> tagline "live the life you want!" really means. I appreciate
>>>>> everyone's thoughtful comments about how it should be interpreted
>>>>> and implemented.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before I delve into the substance of my comments, I want to give
>>>>> you a little background which helps to form my perspective. I
>>>>> first joined the NFB in 1986, and I have had the honor and
>>>>> privilege of being a very active member and leader on many
>>>>> different levels. As part of that experience, I served on a
>>>>> committee which was formed in 2013, maybe even late 2012, whose
>>>>> purpose was to develop our plan for celebrating the 75th
>>>>> Anniversary of the Federation. After some discussion, we decided
>>>>> that it was time to rebrand our messaging so that we could more
>>>>> effectively communicate who we are. One part of that rebranding
>>>>> was changing our tagline from "we are changing what it means to
>>>>> be blind" to the current "live the life you want!" Beyond just
>>>>> the tagline, we developed a comprehensive brand architecture which
>>>>> has many elements that would serve as an excellent focal point for
>>>>> future discussions. In any event, I mention all this because I
>>>>> think I have some idea of what we intended regarding the message
>>>>> we were attempting to communicate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ever since I have been involved in the NFB, there has been this
>>>>> conception that the NFB only supports and celebrates the "super
>>>>> blind" and that if you don't go about blindness in a very specific
>>>>> manner, you are not really living the life the NFB endorses. I
>>>>> emphatically and whole heartedly believe that this misconception
>>>>> is not true! There is no such thing as a model Federationist, and
>>>>> there certainly is not one, singular script from which we must all
>>>>> lead our lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea of "live the life you want!" is that your blindness
>>>>> should not hold you back from pursuing your dreams and ambitions.
>>>>> Undeniably all of our dreams and ambitions are limited and
>>>>> somewhat governed by the realities we face, whether those are
>>>>> financial, educational, , health based, or otherwise. There is no
>>>>> one way to live the life you want. It doesn't matter if you are
>>>>> pursuing a high stakes profession, working from home, volunteering
>>>>> in the community, or not working at all. Our main message is that
>>>>> whatever you are doing with your life, your blindness should
>>>>> not be the chief reason holding you back from whatever brings you
>>>>> fulfillment and purpose in life. Our one minute message, another
>>>>> creation of our rebranding, brings this point out.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not
>>>>> the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we
>>>>> raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations
>>>>> create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live
>>>>> the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back."
>>>>>
>>>>> A key part of this message is that we are raising expectations.
>>>>> That has both an external and internal aspects to it. On the
>>>>> external side, we are working to convince the general population
>>>>> that they can and should expect more from us. All of us often run
>>>>> into very low expectations held by the public. Pretty much every
>>>>> time I travel to and through an airport somebody tells me how
>>>>> amazing I am for simply putting one foot in front of another.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the internal side, we should encourage one another to become
>>>>> the best versions of ourselves that we can. Doing so must always
>>>>> be done with love and understanding. Every year that I am in the
>>>>> Federation, I learn so much from our members on how I can lead my
>>>>> life in a better way, a new technology trick or something that
>>>>> enhances my independent travel or whatever it might be. I
>>>>> certainly haven't figured it all out, and I know that some times I
>>>>> do in fact let my blindness limit me in a way that isn't truly
>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regardless, we must accept people where they are in their lives
>>>>> and be ready to encourage them to achieve more when that is
>>>>> appropriate. This is what we aim to do at our centers. We work
>>>>> with people from all walks of life and who have a wide variety of
>>>>> challenges. No student's program is or should be the same. We
>>>>> have some general policies and expectations, but same are always
>>>>> adjusted to the individual student.
>>>>>
>>>>> Living the life you want is all about independence and freedom.
>>>>> As our founder Dr. tenBroek so eloquently put it, we have a right
>>>>> to live in the world. That means we have the right to be free and
>>>>> independent and to determine our own destiny. The exact mechanism
>>>>> we use to achieve that freedom and independence is not the key
>>>>> issue, but rather that we know and believe that we have the right
>>>>> to achieve it. I think the Federation's best speech regarding
>>>>> independence is the Nature of Independence by Dr. Jernigan from
>>>>> the 1993 Convention. If you haven't read it, I encourage that you
>>>>> do so. It is available through our national website.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before closing this out, I want to address another point Jenny
>>>>> raised in her original message, the idea that perhaps we some
>>>>> times focus and emphasize success stories based on traditional
>>>>> notions of success and that we don't celebrate other forms of
>>>>> achievement. I think this is a great point, and we should
>>>>> endeavor to paint a more comprehensive picture. Convincing an
>>>>> animal shelter to let you volunteer despite your blindness is just
>>>>> as important as someone winning a national scholarship based on
>>>>> academic achievement at the highest level. Both are part of
>>>>> living the life we want.
>>>>>
>>>>> In closing, I want to share two other element from our brand
>>>>> architecture, the Brand Promise and Value Proposition. I do this
>>>>> because, for me, it so eloquently sums up why I am involved in our
>>>>> Federation. "Together with love, hope, and determination, we
>>>>> transform dreams into reality. I am filled with hope, energy, and
>>>>> love by participating in the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>> because my expectations are raised, my contributions make a
>>>>> difference to me and to others, and I can celebrate the
>>>>> realization of my dreams with my Federation family."
>>>>>
>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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