[Dtb-talk] bookshare vs. nls

[Greg Kearney]

I too have wondered what the source of the aversion to the term DAISY is at the NLS. As you say they are using it and their devices play it so why not just say so?


On 14/03/2010, at 1:50 AM, David Andrews wrote:

> One error the library made in its info to you is that NLS does, in fact use a version of DAISY.  The DAISY standard came out in the late 1990's, with "version 1.0 of course.  It was quickly followed by 2.0 2.01 and 2.02.  The 2.02 version is what RFB&D currently uses.  The next version was the Z39-86 2002 version that NLS uses, later followed by Z39-86 2005.  Initially, the DAISY Consortium and others wanted to use the Z390-86 name, later on they gave in and agreed that it could be called DAISY 3.  So, NLS uses a version of DAISY 3 (2002.)
> 
> For whatever reason, and I don't know what it is, NLS has chosen to downplay the fact that they are actually using a version of the DAISY DTB standard.  To me this is unfortunate as it leads to the confusion we see from your librarian source.  The DAISY standard is fast becoming the lingua franca of the worldwide blind community, and I think NLS should proudly get on the bandwagon.  They are on it, they should just say they are!
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 11:35 AM 3/12/2010, you wrote:
>> I was way over the number of books that NLS contracts out each year. Thank you David for pointingthat out.
>> Below is what the librarian said.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <infoeyes at shawls.lib.il.us>
>> To: <evans-lynn at comcast.net>
>> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:38 AM
>> Subject: Library Question - Answer [Question #5387336]
>> 
>> 
>>> Hello
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your question.  NLS contracts out for approximately 2,000 audio titles a year (and multiple copies of each title.) NLS does not use Daisy per se.  NLS uses ANSI-NISO Z-39.86 2002.  These specs were developed especially for the digital talking book.
>>> 
>>> NLS has a collection development section.  Staff in this section select titles.  The NLS collection building policy is available on the NLS website at www.loc.gov/nls.  In addition, an annual meeting is held of the Collection Development Advisory Group.  This group is composed of consumers, among others, who make recommendations.
>>> 
>>> NLS books do go through a rigorous quality assurance program.  All books must pass the quality standards before being released.  If the collection development section selects books that are a part of a series, they strive to record all of the books in that series.  The books are released when they are ready.  A book is not held if an earlier book in the series is not yet ready.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" <m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] bookshare vs. nls
>> 
>> 
>> Don't get me wrong: I think NLS does a great job. In fact, there's a couple of narrators who do a fantastic job. Merwin Smith is at the top of my list; he's the reason I got into Robert Ludlum (plus Ludlum's a great writer.) I also enjoy Bob Askey and David Hartley-Margolin (is it me or does DHM sound similar to Bob Askey on recordings recorded circa 2002 and forward? DHM sounds younger on Without Remorse by Clancy [1993 recording] and similar to Bob Askey on Clancy's Red Rabbit [2002].) Is there any place where we can read short biographies of these gentlemen or other favorite narrators? Is Merwin Smith still alive and recording?
>> (As a side note, I must say that I ordered a book that was narrated by another narrator recently. I found out Merwin Smith had done it originally twenty some-odd years ago and this was a reissue. Smith's recording is still available. Had i known, I would've ordered it because the reissued book by a new narrator ruined the book. Although, the guy did do a good job on a Jack Higgins novel and was all right on an Agatha Christie novel.) How does NLS get its narrators like DHM, Bob Askey, Merwin Smith, etc.? Are these folks retired or what? How much are they payed? (I ask because I had someone back in my college days tell me that the folks that read these books on tape are prisoners. That would make sense because prisoners have a lot of time on their hands; however, your average inmate won't be able to be dramatic and do accents and voices and all that good stuff. Plus, I doubt sophisticated recording equipment is brought into the cell or there's a studio at
>> the prison.) I also love how we never hear them turn a page or pause when flipping the page.
>> 
>> As far as commercial audio, I noticed NLS was listing titles and I always like to see who the narrator was. I remember Anne Haish (sorry for the misspelling) and Carolyn McCormick (better known as Dr. Elizabeth Olivet on Law & Order or as Minuet, the holodeck distraction of Riker in the STTNG episode 1001001) narrated a couple and I was surprised. I also noticed that a couple of NLS recordings are taped at the slow speed; however, instead of four sides per cassette, it's two but at the slower speed. So, side 3 and 4 are cassette two, so on and so forth. I remember being surprised and was wondering what is up with this.
>> 
>> The only problem withe commercial audio books is the book is severely edited (which is why NLS rocks because you get the full book.) The Star Trek commercial audio is cool because you've got sound effects and the actors reading the book; but, a lot of stuff gets cut out and it is a trip hering one actor try to imitate the rest of his or her cast mates (unless it's Scotty doing an STTNG book trying to do Data--you can tell he'd never seen the show because he does Data like a robot, and, as we all know, he is an android.) When did the entire book start to be put out on commercial audio instead of an edited version?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Flint Million <fmillion at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Flint Million <fmillion at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] bookshare vs. nls
>> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 5:27 PM
>> 
>> 
>> I forgot to mention that NLS is now getting permission to simply adapt
>> existing commercial audiobooks, which is actually a nice thing for us
>> blind folks. They take the commercial CD book, encrypt it and insert
>> DAISY markers, and distribute it to us. Saves them the effort of the
>> volunteer reading, which is really nice. And in some cases, commercial
>> books are already nicely arranged for them (e.g. each CD track is one
>> chapter)
>> 
>> FM
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Flint Million <fmillion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There does not seem to be much rhyme or reason to how NLS is deciding
>>> which books to convert to digital format. The only thing they've said
>>> about this in their documents is as follows:
>>> 
>>> Q: Why are some books from a series missing? Why are some magazine
>>> issues missing?
>>> A: Production schedules can cause inadvertent delays.
>>> 
>>> Pretty vague, eh?
>>> 
>>> In either case, Bookshare tends to be able to expand their library
>>> faster because they're not doing real human readings of the books.
>>> Their content comes from volunteers who scan or convert materials into
>>> text format. then they simply DAISY-ify them and throw them up on the
>>> site. In contrast, NLS must have a volunteer reader read the content
>>> into digital form (or convert the existing cassette version), then
>>> have someone scan through the recording to insert all of the DAISY
>>> navigation points. It can be quite a laborious process. Also, it does
>>> seem that Bookshare has a lot more of a "blanket" copyright exemption
>>> in place, while NLS titles announce "with the permission of the
>>> copyright holder". Maybe this also causes NLS delays, at least in
>>> getting new titles produced. As for why they have only spanish
>>> versions of some books, that's just their quirky schedule at work, but
>>> it does mean it's likely that the english version will be soon to
>>> follow, hopefully.
>>> 
>>> FM
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mike Gilmore <m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> I've been browsing bookshare's list of books. I've liked that it and NLS have a lot of the same stuff; however, I was also impressed that it has books that NLS does not. For example, there are two Agatha Christie books that bookshare has that NLS does not. Actually, one of the books NLS does have but it's in Spanish, which is kind of odd considering that Agatha Christie is a British author and they have pretty much all of her other stuff in English except for the title I'm talking about (it's a Poirot book.) So, why put all of the Poirot books in English recordings except for one and put that in Spanish? Thank goodness for bookshare for those of us who want to read all of the books or series by a particular author!
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
> 
> 
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Greg Kearney, Manager - Accessible Media
Association for the Blind of Western Australia
61 Kitchener Ave
Victoria Park, WA 6100
AUSTRALIA
+61 08 9311 8246