[Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated DAISY production

Wed May 12 15:47:03 UTC 2010

Dan and others: This is a good idea, and good expectation. Those who are going to national conventions where Bookshare is attending, please bring it to them there. Those who use Bookshare, add it to their suggestions. It is good that we raise the issue here, but take it to them. 

-----Original Message-----
From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Burke, Dan (DSS)
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:40 AM
To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books
Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated DAISY production

Bookshare's limited use of navigation built on inclusion of headings and matching pages is not just an automoation issue -- it is also a matter of the volunteer submissions.  It's pretty easy to scan a book, a good bit trickier to know how to use the pagination  features of MS Word to make the prefatory pages one set of page numbers, and the remaining
pages normal page numbers.  And then the headings too ...   I doubt that
most volunteers know how to do such things.  

That's why we end up with a couple of headings in the beginning of the book and none for the chapters.  Bookshare could promote the use of such improvements in raw scans before submission.  Some of the books I have read from the -- I think publisher contributions -- have been well-formed and highly navigabile.

On the other hand, as I have had more and more experience with creating and reading Daisy books with navigable headings and so forth, my expectations have risen accordingly.  I wish Bookshare would at least do more to promote increased inclusion of of headings in submitted rich text files - they aren't at all difficult to do.  

Dan

Dan Burke
Assistant Director/Assistive Technology Coordinator

Disability Services for Studentstss
The University of Montana
Emma B. Lommasson Center 154
Missoula, MT 59812

406.24.4424
406.243.5330 FAX

www.umt.edu/disability

-----Original Message-----
From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Jim Barbour
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:38 PM
To: Robert Jaquiss; Discussion of Digital Talking Books
Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated DAISY production

Hey Everyone,

The challenges Robert outlines below are the same challenges we, as blind college students, have faced for decades.  I'd love to see these issues tackled and solved.  However, even if they aren't solved, daisy books are a huge step forward from cassette tapes.

Automating the daisy production process is a trade off.  On the plus side, there will be more daisy books available, since the production process is less limited by the number of volunteers available.  On the minus side, the quality of the markup will be limited to what can be reliably done using automation.

I personally think that automation wins and that we should not hold up a workable solution while search for a nearer perfect one.

Just my $.02

Jim Barbour

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:53:50PM -0500, Robert Jaquiss wrote:
> Hello Greg:
> 
>     It is my opinion that DAISY books should absolutely reflect the 
> structure of the original printed book. If they don't how could a 
> student deal with a teacher's instructions to turn to page XX. In 
> situations where a citation is needed, a reader couldn't produce a 
> professionally acceptable citation. If the DAISY book is to be used to 
> produce braille, proper pagination is a must. Sections and chapters 
> also must be preserved.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert Jaquiss
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Kearney"
> <gkearney at gmail.com>
> To: "daisy group" <dmfc-ig at mail.daisy.org>; "Discussion of Digital 
> Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:41 PM
> Subject: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org,internet archive and other automated 
> DAISY production
> 
> 
> >I have been thinking of late about the various attempts to generate 
> >DAISY from fully automated systems such as seems to be the case at 
> >Bookshare.org, Internet Archive and some other sources.
> >
> >The issue I have with these books is that their DAISY structure does 
> >not reflect the printed book. In most cases that I have seen the book 
> >is a single long heading level 1 with perhaps page numbering in 
> >place. In many cases these page numbers are again not reflective of 
> >the printed book, for example I have found books with duplicate page 
> >numbers. For example where there is a page number 4 in the front 
> >matter and a page number 4 in the body matter.
> >
> >More troubling however is the lack of navigation to chapters and 
> >other subsections of the books. This is of particular concern in 
> >non-fiction text.
> >
> >Am I just being overly picky here? What do you all think?
> >
> >Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media Association for the Blind 
> >of WA - Guide Dogs WA PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 
> >Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
> >Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> >Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> >Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au
> >Email: gkearney at gmail.com
> >
> >
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