[Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated DAISY production

Wed May 12 20:24:54 UTC 2010

Well Pete -

I wouldn't say Bookshare titles are a practical joke at all.  We need to
move ahead as Jim B. said -- improving the quality and navigability at
the same time pulling as much content as we can into the realm of
accessible content.  By its volume in such a short time, Bookshare has
completely transformed the playing field in my view.  And yes, I've
gotten spoiled and more particular and want to see quality improved for
Daisy output from whatever the source, but I also know that Bookshare is
working on that.  And it's still the first place I go to see if a title
is in an accessible format already.  In other words, it's my first
choice, no matter the navigation deficits.

Dan

Dan Burke
Assistant Director/Assistive Technology Coordinator

Disability Services for Studentstss
The University of Montana
Emma B. Lommasson Center 154
Missoula, MT 59812

406.24.4424
406.243.5330 FAX

www.umt.edu/disability

-----Original Message-----
From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:36 PM
To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books
Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org,internet archive and other
automated DAISY production

Hello everyone,

    It's obvious that bookshare.org and company need to teach their 
volunteers the proper way to mark up DAISY books in addition to scanning

them. I will admit to being very disappointed after reading just how
great 
bookshare.org's DAISY books would be only to find that they were nothing
but 
a practical joke. What a great idea for a resolution.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Burke, Dan (DSS)" <burke at mso.umt.edu>
To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org,internet archive and other
automated 
DAISY production

Bookshare's limited use of navigation built on inclusion of headings and
matching pages is not just an automoation issue -- it is also a matter
of the volunteer submissions.  It's pretty easy to scan a book, a good
bit trickier to know how to use the pagination  features of MS Word to
make the prefatory pages one set of page numbers, and the remaining
pages normal page numbers.  And then the headings too ...   I doubt that
most volunteers know how to do such things.

That's why we end up with a couple of headings in the beginning of the
book and none for the chapters.  Bookshare could promote the use of such
improvements in raw scans before submission.  Some of the books I have
read from the -- I think publisher contributions -- have been
well-formed and highly navigabile.

On the other hand, as I have had more and more experience with creating
and reading Daisy books with navigable headings and so forth, my
expectations have risen accordingly.  I wish Bookshare would at least do
more to promote increased inclusion of of headings in submitted rich
text files - they aren't at all difficult to do.

Dan

Dan Burke
Assistant Director/Assistive Technology Coordinator

Disability Services for Studentstss
The University of Montana
Emma B. Lommasson Center 154
Missoula, MT 59812

406.24.4424
406.243.5330 FAX

www.umt.edu/disability

-----Original Message-----
From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Jim Barbour
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:38 PM
To: Robert Jaquiss; Discussion of Digital Talking Books
Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other
automated DAISY production

Hey Everyone,

The challenges Robert outlines below are the same challenges we, as
blind
college students, have faced for decades.  I'd love to see these
issues tackled and solved.  However, even if they aren't solved, daisy
books are a huge step forward from cassette tapes.

Automating the daisy production process is a trade off.  On the plus
side, there will be more daisy books available, since the production
process is less limited by the number of volunteers available.  On the
minus side, the quality of the markup will be limited to what can be
reliably done using automation.

I personally think that automation wins and that we should not hold up
a workable solution while search for a nearer perfect one.

Just my $.02

Jim Barbour

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:53:50PM -0500, Robert Jaquiss wrote:
> Hello Greg:
>
>     It is my opinion that DAISY books should absolutely reflect the
> structure of the original printed book. If they don't how could a
> student deal with a teacher's instructions to turn to page XX. In
> situations where a citation is needed, a reader couldn't produce a
> professionally acceptable citation. If the DAISY book is to be used
> to produce braille, proper pagination is a must. Sections and
> chapters also must be preserved.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert Jaquiss
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Kearney"
> <gkearney at gmail.com>
> To: "daisy group" <dmfc-ig at mail.daisy.org>; "Discussion of Digital
> Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:41 PM
> Subject: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org,internet archive and other
> automated DAISY production
>
>
> >I have been thinking of late about the various attempts to
> >generate DAISY from fully automated systems such as seems to be
> >the case at Bookshare.org, Internet Archive and some other
> >sources.
> >
> >The issue I have with these books is that their DAISY structure
> >does not reflect the printed book. In most cases that I have seen
> >the book is a single long heading level 1 with perhaps page
> >numbering in place. In many cases these page numbers are again not
> >reflective of the printed book, for example I have found books
> >with duplicate page numbers. For example where there is a page
> >number 4 in the front matter and a page number 4 in the body
> >matter.
> >
> >More troubling however is the lack of navigation to chapters and
> >other subsections of the books. This is of particular concern in
> >non-fiction text.
> >
> >Am I just being overly picky here? What do you all think?
> >
> >Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> >Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> >PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria
> >Park WA 6100
> >Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> >Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> >Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au
> >Email: gkearney at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Dtb-talk mailing list
> >Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for Dtb-talk:
>
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40ea
rthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dtb-talk mailing list
> Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Dtb-talk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
.com
>

_______________________________________________
Dtb-talk mailing list
Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Dtb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/burke%40mso.um
t.edu

_______________________________________________
Dtb-talk mailing list
Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Dtb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb
cglobal.net 

_______________________________________________
Dtb-talk mailing list
Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Dtb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/burke%40mso.um
t.edu