[Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated DAISY production

Thu May 13 01:29:43 UTC 2010

Hello Dave and everyone,

    I'm not sure what the status is now but several years ago we passed a 
resolution urging them to proofread their Braille files to be sure they 
comply with NLS and Braille textbook standards. Perhaps a similar resolution 
should be passed urging all of these folks to mark up their books in DAISY 
to improve their navigability.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated 
DAISY production

They do not "markup in DAISY."  They scan the files and prepare them
in Kurzweil, Word, or another program, submitting a rtf file to
Bookshare.  they are required to put pages in, at one time they
weren't.  I can't speak for BSO, to know if they are going to up the
requirements again.

Dave

At 06:54 PM 5/12/2010, you wrote:
>Hello Dave and everyone,
>
>     But are they teaching these people how to properly mark up books in
>DAISY as Greg suggested?
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrews, David B B (DEED)" <David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us>
>To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated
>DAISY production
>
>
>Peter:
>
>All that sounds good, but the reality is that with a large number of
>volunteers, both scanners and proofers, and a wide variety of tools,
>consistent, reliable content is going to be difficult to achieve.
>
>I think though that Bookshare.org is probably moving away from volunteers.
>They are getting more and more from publishers directly, and I believe they
>are paying people in India to do input, and staff is doing some too.  It is
>my guess that ultimately volunteer-produced content will become a small 
>part
>of their overall operation.
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 1:36 PM
>To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books
>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other automated
>DAISY production
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>     It's obvious that bookshare.org and company need to teach their
>volunteers the proper way to mark up DAISY books in addition to scanning
>them. I will admit to being very disappointed after reading just how great
>bookshare.org's DAISY books would be only to find that they were nothing 
>but
>a practical joke. What a great idea for a resolution.
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Burke, Dan (DSS)" <burke at mso.umt.edu>
>To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org,internet archive and other automated
>DAISY production
>
>
>Bookshare's limited use of navigation built on inclusion of headings and
>matching pages is not just an automoation issue -- it is also a matter
>of the volunteer submissions.  It's pretty easy to scan a book, a good
>bit trickier to know how to use the pagination  features of MS Word to
>make the prefatory pages one set of page numbers, and the remaining
>pages normal page numbers.  And then the headings too ...   I doubt that
>most volunteers know how to do such things.
>
>That's why we end up with a couple of headings in the beginning of the
>book and none for the chapters.  Bookshare could promote the use of such
>improvements in raw scans before submission.  Some of the books I have
>read from the -- I think publisher contributions -- have been
>well-formed and highly navigabile.
>
>On the other hand, as I have had more and more experience with creating
>and reading Daisy books with navigable headings and so forth, my
>expectations have risen accordingly.  I wish Bookshare would at least do
>more to promote increased inclusion of of headings in submitted rich
>text files - they aren't at all difficult to do.
>
>Dan
>
>Dan Burke
>Assistant Director/Assistive Technology Coordinator
>
>Disability Services for Studentstss
>The University of Montana
>Emma B. Lommasson Center 154
>Missoula, MT 59812
>
>406.24.4424
>406.243.5330 FAX
>
>www.umt.edu/disability
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Jim Barbour
>Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:38 PM
>To: Robert Jaquiss; Discussion of Digital Talking Books
>Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org, internet archive and other
>automated DAISY production
>
>Hey Everyone,
>
>The challenges Robert outlines below are the same challenges we, as
>blind
>college students, have faced for decades.  I'd love to see these
>issues tackled and solved.  However, even if they aren't solved, daisy
>books are a huge step forward from cassette tapes.
>
>Automating the daisy production process is a trade off.  On the plus
>side, there will be more daisy books available, since the production
>process is less limited by the number of volunteers available.  On the
>minus side, the quality of the markup will be limited to what can be
>reliably done using automation.
>
>I personally think that automation wins and that we should not hold up
>a workable solution while search for a nearer perfect one.
>
>Just my $.02
>
>Jim Barbour
>
>On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:53:50PM -0500, Robert Jaquiss wrote:
> > Hello Greg:
> >
> >     It is my opinion that DAISY books should absolutely reflect the
> > structure of the original printed book. If they don't how could a
> > student deal with a teacher's instructions to turn to page XX. In
> > situations where a citation is needed, a reader couldn't produce a
> > professionally acceptable citation. If the DAISY book is to be used
> > to produce braille, proper pagination is a must. Sections and
> > chapters also must be preserved.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Robert Jaquiss
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Kearney"
> > <gkearney at gmail.com>
> > To: "daisy group" <dmfc-ig at mail.daisy.org>; "Discussion of Digital
> > Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:41 PM
> > Subject: [Dtb-talk] Bookshare.org,internet archive and other
> > automated DAISY production
> >
> >
> > >I have been thinking of late about the various attempts to
> > >generate DAISY from fully automated systems such as seems to be
> > >the case at Bookshare.org, Internet Archive and some other
> > >sources.
> > >
> > >The issue I have with these books is that their DAISY structure
> > >does not reflect the printed book. In most cases that I have seen
> > >the book is a single long heading level 1 with perhaps page
> > >numbering in place. In many cases these page numbers are again not
> > >reflective of the printed book, for example I have found books
> > >with duplicate page numbers. For example where there is a page
> > >number 4 in the front matter and a page number 4 in the body
> > >matter.
> > >
> > >More troubling however is the lack of navigation to chapters and
> > >other subsections of the books. This is of particular concern in
> > >non-fiction text.
> > >
> > >Am I just being overly picky here? What do you all think?
> > >
> > >Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> > >Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> > >PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria
> > >Park WA 6100
> > >Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> > >Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> > >Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au
> > >Email: gkearney at gmail.com
>

                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920

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