[Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question

Greg Kearney gkearney at gmail.com
Sun May 16 23:59:24 UTC 2010 

OK so it all come down to an interpretation of law and not the law itself. I can understand that I guess.

Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au
Email: gkearney at gmail.com

On 17/05/2010, at 2:40 AM, Mike Freeman wrote:

> Greg:
> 
> I believe Lloyd Rasmussen, who works for NLS, might be able to point you to someone who might be able to answer your question. You might also write to nlsdownload at loc.gov which, while catering to those using the NLS BARD service, might also be able to point you in the right direction.
> 
> You ask whether BookShare or NLS are correctly interpreting copyright law. My answer (and it is just mine) is that they both are. How can this be?
> 
> BookShare requires recipients to demonstrate via registry with a NLS regional library or RFB&D membership or the like that they are eligible to receive books for the blind programs.. This allows a website password allowing books to be downloaded.
> 
> NLS requires this *plus* encrypting the books. Why? Because NLS already has been subject  to some problems of people distributing back-translations of its braille materials via the WebBraille interface. At once time, you weren't asked whether you would abide by NLS restrictions when you log in. You now are. That's because there was quite a flap a few years ago and, in fact, NLS had to suspend the WebBraille program for a while till it got straightened out.
> 
> NLS, being a public entity, has to be extra-careful for the public controls its purse strings. Not so with BookShare. Moreover, in alleging that BookShare books might be more valuable to pirate than NLS material, you're forgetting the commercial audio book market. Frankly, although many of the commercial book readers are great, most NLS readers are even better. And publishers get mighty touchy about this sort of thing as demonstrated by the Kindle mess -- even though anyone in his/her right mind would admit there's no comparison between text-to-speech and a live reader.
> 
> Also, until very recently, most BookShare books were scanned by volunteers with all the variation in quality that this implies. With respect, any distribution of such books would be no competition to books translated from compositor's tapes from the publishers.
> 
> Bottom line: the NLS program could b nixed by Congress at any time. Not so for BookShare.
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Kearney" <gkearney at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
> 
> 
>> I guess I should explain a bit more what we are asking and thinking  about here.
>> 
>> Daisy Bookworm and Olearia  were written primarily to support books  from our library at ABWA as well as Vision Australia and RNZFB. They  will read any non encrypted DAISY book. As it happens this means every  book from every other library for the blind in the world. The sole  exceptions are RFB&D, who we are working with to provide playback, and  the NLS system.
>> 
>> What we are looking into is to have the iPhone/iPad/iPod touch  hardware authorised as playback device in the same way that the  VictorReader Stream is authorised. That is to say that the hardware  itself would be identified as belonging to an authorised user. In the  case of the VictorReader Stream this is done by serial number and an  authorisation key tied to that number. A similar thing could be done  with the iPhone/iPad/iPod there by providing proof that the owner of  such was an authorised user. In effect the iPhone/iPad/iPod is nothing  more than a playback device like the Stream and could be treated the  same way.
>> 
>> I must admit that the status of all of this in U.S. Copyright law has  be a bit confused to say the least. Let take a look at two  organisations both producing copyrighted works under U.S. law:
>> 
>> The NLS seems to be saying that it is a requirment under the law that books be in an encrypted format playable only on special authorised devices.
>> 
>> Bookshare on the other hand says that it can provide, in many cases  the text of the same books, in clear text requiring only that the user  have a user name and password to download and unpack the same. Once a  Bookshare title has been unzipped all of the text is in a human  readable for and can be simply transformed into any number of formats  in much the same way Braille can be back translated.
>> 
>> So who is in the right here? it is the same book and if anything the Bookshare version would be even more valuable to pirates as it has the text of the book and not simply a recording. Both these claims can not  at the same time be true the law either requires encryption and  special devices or it does not.
>> 
>> In any event there are many technical issues to solve, most notably  the issues surrounding the playback of the audio in the NLS format and  we may never be able to do that and preserve battery life.
>> 
>> So to be clear here we are not asking the NLS to change the format of their books and we are clearly not asking or suggesting that anyone "share" the book with unauthorised users. Right now we are only asking what the process is to get a device authorised for NLS playback as  other devices have been in the past and to what extent if any there is  interest in the print disabled community in having such playback on  the iPhone/iPad/iPod.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Gregory Kearney
>> Manager - Accessible Media
>> Association for the Blind of Western Australia
>> 61 Kitchener Avenue, PO Box 101
>> Victoria Park 6979, WA Australia
>> 
>> Telephone: +61 (08) 9311 8202
>> Telephone: +1 (307) 224-4022 (North America)
>> Fax: +61 (08) 9361 8696
>> Toll free: 1800 658 388 (Australia only)
>> Email: gkearney at gmail.com
>> 
>> On 16/05/2010, at 7:09 PM, Fr. John Sheehan wrote:
>> 
>>> You have to remember that NLS is governed by the publishers. As long  as their material is in a proprietary format, they can issue the  materials without worrying about copyright. Braille is a proprietary  format - and when they went to audio, NLS devised its own unique  system first for tape, now digital. If they open it up for wider  use, they will be required to get individual copyright permission  for each work, or pay. Either would cripple the service. But in  terms of "sharing" with more popular devices, they don't really have  much choice. Remember how the publishers and then authors reacted  when the Kindle 2 was released with its text to speech feature? Same  issue.
>>> Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
>>> Chairman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Xavier Society for the Blind
>>> 154 East 23rd St
>>> New York, NY 10010
>>> (212) 473-7800
>>> Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Lynn Evans <evans-lynn at comcast.net>
>>> To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 2:46:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
>>> 
>>> Just being a smart ass here:
>>> 
>>> With all the emails flying back and forth here, we haven't yet  convinced NLS
>>> to release their proprietary format?
>>> 
>>> hmmmmm
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Flint Million" <fmillion at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 1:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think another possible issue is that the iPod has an AAC/MP3 decoder
>>> in hardware, but not an AMR-WB+ decoder. I may be completely wrong on
>>> that since the iPhone is probably using some kind of AMR audio for the
>>> phone component, but I have never read any specs on it. Also it'd  be
>>> logical that the iPod touch would lack such a decoder even if one is
>>> in the iPhone. (And it could also be that the iPhone's decoder, if
>>> any, is part of the GSM hardware itself and not part of the media
>>> playback chipset.) This would mean we'd be reduced to decoding the
>>> book content in software, which would potentially reduce battery life.
>>> One of the selling points of the iPod touch is its seriously long
>>> playback time - they rate it at about 30 hours for music, which
>>> matches our big tabletop NLS players - but they achieve this by doing
>>> as much as they can in hardware using specialized very-low-power
>>> chips. Anything done in software on the device eats the battery life
>>> away, because the main processor, while efficient, can't compete with
>>> a specialized low-power decoding chip for media content.
>>> 
>>> And of course, the issue still stands with how to get the book content
>>> on to the device. I may be wrong, but I think Apple disapproves of
>>> methods of loading content that involve simple drag-and-drop. All of
>>> the apps I've seen available on the app store for content consumption
>>> require you to either use WebDAV or FTP or a traditional web server
>>> style upload mechanism. This adds yet another complexity to the
>>> process. Apple's App Store policies seem to include some unwritten
>>> rules about things like this (I'm sure some have heard the stories of
>>> apps being rejected for no apparent reason), so this is just another
>>> thing to worry about.
>>> 
>>> FM
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>  wrote:
>>>> Besides, multi-use devices do each of their functions with equal
>>>> mediocrity!
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burke, Dan (DSS)" <burke at mso.umt.edu
>>>> >
>>>> To: "Discussion of Digital Talking Books" <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:35 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> It's logical - everybody is searching for a single multi-use  device. I
>>>>> would love to be able to use my smart phone to read Daisy and NLS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But htis is not a world that always makes sense, is it?
>>>>> (grin)
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan Burke
>>>>> Assistant Director/Assistive Technology Coordinator
>>>>> 
>>>>> Disability Services for Studentstss
>>>>> The University of Montana
>>>>> Emma B. Lommasson Center 154
>>>>> Missoula, MT 59812
>>>>> 
>>>>> 406.24.4424
>>>>> 406.243.5330 FAX
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.umt.edu/disability
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org ]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Eric SS
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 4:21 AM
>>>>> To: 'Discussion of Digital Talking Books'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Dtb-talk] iPhone/iPad/iPod touch NLS Playback question
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would think anyone who currently uses one of the dedicated NLS- capable
>>>>> devices and has an Iphone/Touch/Pad, would be very happy to be  able to
>>>>> use
>>>>> just one device. I know a couple of folks who don't use the NLS digital
>>>>> service because they do not want to deal with another device, but would
>>>>> become enthusiastic users if they could listen on their Iphone, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Eric SS
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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