[DTB-Talk] Censorship, NLS Alert
Peter Donahue
pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
Sun Jul 28 02:52:36 UTC 2019
Hello Sherry and everyone,
Neither Mary nor I wrote to her. Praise God for positioning ourselves so we could self-fund the blindness products and services we need such as buying accessible Braille and audio books from sources other than lending libraries. This isn't bragging! It's protecting ourselves from falsely accusing someone for something that after closer investigation wasn't really their fault. Now to find another good read.
Peter Donahue
-----Original Message-----
From: DTB-Talk [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherri via DTB-Talk
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:12 PM
To: 'Discussion of Digital Talking Books'
Cc: Sherri
Subject: Re: [DTB-Talk] Censorship, NLS Alert
Now that we have all written to Judy Dixon, that is sad! I guess that's what happens when we jump to conclusions. Thanks for researching this out.
Sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: DTB-Talk [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney via DTB-Talk
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 4:50 PM
To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Greg Kearney <gkearney at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DTB-Talk] Censorship, NLS Alert
A bit of investigation has given me to a possible explanation as to what happened here.
First the NLS annotation for this title indicates that this is a commercial audio book:
Travis, Randy; Abraham, Ken. Reading time: 9 hours, 48 minutes.
Read by Rory Feek.
Music Appreciation and History
Memoir of country music star. Chronicles his troubled childhood, the relationship with the woman who became both his manager and his wife, the ups and downs of his career, and his difficult divorce. Discusses how his faith sustained him, especially after the stroke that almost killed him. Unrated. Commercial audiobook. 2019.
It turns out that there are at least two version of the audio book edition. One was produced by Thomas Neilson, the original books publisher and a second version produced by Harper Collins Christian Publishing, both are imprints of the larger Harper Collins. Rory Feek was the narrator for both versions.
The difference here is that books from Harper Collins Christian Publishing will be devoid of "strong language" So Harper Collins simply takes the Thomas Neilson recording and edits out the strong words for the Harper Collins Christian Publishing version rather than re-recording the whole book or even part of the book. My bet is that the print editions from Harper Collins Christian Publishing just have the offending word blacked out in the text. Harper Collins Christian Publishing uses the Christian Writer's Manual of Style: 4th Edition which has cautions against the use of such language.
So when the NLS arranged to get the commercial recordings what they got was the Harper Collins Christian Publishing version which is what you hear. Of course they, the NLS, would have no way to know that there were these two version of the recording. It no like they are going to have someone sit down and play the whole recording looking for these sorts of things.
So I suspect this is the cause of this issue. Perhaps the NLS should instruct the audiobook publishers that they are only interested in unedited and of course unabridged recordings of the original published text. In any event I don't thing this was anything deliberate on the part of the NLS.
Greg Kearney
> On Jul 27, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Peter Donahue via DTB-Talk <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I thought that the alert you sometimes encounter in Talkingbook Topics and Braille Book Review was supposed to alert readers that a book contained "Strong language, explicit descriptions of sex, and violence."This alone should be enough to alert readers to such books to allow them to choose wisely if they find such material to be offensive to them. Amazon and other commercial book sellers have similar practices. Amazon extends their "Explicit" alert to songs and other digital media.
>
> If it can be proven that censorship is really going on this is unexcusable. All material book producers for the blind offer need to contain all of their original content. First we must be certain that censorship is really going on before further action is taken and locate other sources of books we choose to read that may have been censored by the NLS. All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DTB-Talk [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via DTB-Talk
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:58 AM
> To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books
> Cc: Pamela Dominguez
> Subject: Re: [DTB-Talk] Bard sensoring certain material?
>
> I have not ever known that BARD has done abridged books. The only time I
> remember seeing an abridged book is when I got one in braille that was a
> hand-copied, thermoform braille book done by another agency. That was back
> in the 1970s. The book was called Intern by Dr. X. Pam.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donahue via DTB-Talk
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 5:07 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Digital Talking Books'
> Cc: Peter Donahue
> Subject: Re: [DTB-Talk] Bard sensoring certain material?
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> Praise God for iBooks, Amazon Kindle, Audiobooks.com, and Audible. It may be
> that BARD is only recording abridge versions of books hence the disrespect
> for its patrons. Mary downloads an occasional book fromBARD. I can't
> remember when the last time was when I read a book from NLS. Its collection
> is seriously lacking when it comes to the type of books I read many dealing
> with agriculture, Gospel, Inspiration, computer topics, and travel.
>
> Solution? Do some dumpster diving to raise the needed funds to buy
> unabridged versions of books and know that you're getting what you paid for
> and no disrespect is shown. Around here self-funding products and services
> we use to live independently is job one! Before anyone thinks we were borne
> with silver spoons in our mouth we know what its like living on Social
> Security and eating pancakes for supper. The difference was seazing
> opportunity when it came our way to improve our financial situation. If we
> don't want blindness agencies like the NLS deciding what material is
> appropriate for us to read and what isn't it's our responsibility to find
> ways to buy our own books in accessible media. Several solutions now exist
> that allow us to do that.
>
> By the way www.audiobooks.com is available on many types of devices
> including Apple TV. We found a few titles available via audiobooks.com that
> aren't available through any other service including the NLS and
> Bookshare.org. You can sign up for a 30-day free trial which we plan to do
> when we get paid. All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue who hopes Audible comes to Apple TV Under tvOS 13.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DTB-Talk [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherri via
> DTB-Talk
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 2:29 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Digital Talking Books'
> Cc: Sherri
> Subject: Re: [DTB-Talk] Bard sensoring certain material?
>
> Oh this is not good. Did not use to be this way! Why are they treating us
> like children?
>
> Sherri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DTB-Talk [mailto:dtb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl
> Osborn via DTB-Talk
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 3:23 PM
> To: Discussion of Digital Talking Books <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cheryl Osborn <chapalacheryl at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DTB-Talk] Bard sensoring certain material?
>
> Very well put. Thank you for saying that.
>
> Cheryl Osborn
>
>
>> On Jul 26, 2019, at 1:49 PM, Dale Leavens via DTB-Talk
>> <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I resent the patronizing attitude toward us as blind people, like children
>> who apparently don’t have sufficient personalities to discern for
>> ourselves.
>>
>>
>> Many of us Canadians don’t understand how carefully American television
>> sensor language on television broadcasts but so readily show often
>> gratuitous violence of the most graphical type.
>>
>> I suppose culture is a complicated thing and very personal
>>
>> Still, I resent having to accept other people’s values being imposed on me
>> just because I have no visual acuity.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>> Dale Leavens
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Christopher Gilland via DTB-Talk
>>> <dtb-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, I just made a discovery today which does not at all make me the
>>> slightest bit happy.
>>>
>>> I'm not one for swearing, however, neither am I one for sensorship.
>>>
>>> I was listening to a book which I'd downloaded from Bard, come to think
>>> of it, this was the 2nd title I've noticed this. I'm only quoting here
>>> from a book, so please do not ban me for a simple quotation, and not that
>>> of my own remark, but one line in the book said, "by the look on her
>>> face, you would have thought she didn't give a shit." What you actually
>>> heard however in the downloaded Bard recording was, she didn't give a...
>>> bee'eep. The only way I know they said the word s h i t is because it's a
>>> commurcial audio book, and, it just so happens that I downloaded the
>>> original mainstream recording from Audible, as I was very curious if they
>>> actually bleeped the word in the mainstream recording. I've found most
>>> audio books Bard or not, if there is a swear word, regardless cultural
>>> beliefs etc, the narrator *has* to say it. If you're a pro narrator, from
>>> what I understand, you have to put emotions and things like that aside in
>>> order for the recording to past quality control screening. Anyway, on the
>>> actual Audible version, same narrator, same recording, etc, it was not
>>> bleeped out. I could make out the word clear as night and day.
>>>
>>> This led me to check the other book to see if the book did the same
>>> thing. I downloaded the Bard book again to my shelf, went to the chapter
>>> in question, and listened through Bard. The line was, and no, even
>>> quoting, I'm not gonna repeat this word as it's way more offensive to
>>> many than the sh word, but basically, the line was, it was f**king crazy.
>>>
>>> The narrator on the Bard version said, effing crazy. When I listened to
>>> the version on Audible, and even checked the actual print text through a
>>> scanned copy on Bookshare, the actual F word was there. Again, I ab, suh,
>>> lootly! do not condone that type language, however, that said, come on!
>>> It's a book for Pete sake!
>>>
>>> Why're Bard narrators all of a sudden unlike before being coached
>>> evidently to not just read what is on the page? Both these books were
>>> fairly newer titles. Bard didn't seem to used to do this.
>>>
>>> What changed?
>>>
>>> Chris.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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