[Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition

Brett Winches bwinches at icbvi.idaho.gov
Wed Mar 18 16:02:30 UTC 2009 

Jim,  I suspect part of this is similar to NPR stations who have not
determined or do not have access to the programming that they might fill
the extra channels with.  Funding to secure the programming may also be
a factor.   

-----Original Message-----
From: electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Aldrich
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:24 PM
To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition

Hello!

My area has two Christian AM HD stations broadcasting in stereo.  The
public station is transmitting one HD stream on their FM signal.  So HD
radio works!  Why don't more stations go to it?  How are they going to
know it works or doesn't without putting it on the air!  That's my
point!

Jim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances" 
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition


There are some areas of the country where hd radio will not work and
it's
for that reason some radioshack stores market hd radio and others do
not.
Where I live in Lexington Park, MD hd radio will never work properly so
the local radioshack doesn't market hd radio.  However go to Waldorf, MD
and you can buy hd radio recievers from the waldorf Radioshack.



On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, James Aldrich wrote:

> Time will tell!  Some places have a pot full of HD stations where some
> places do not.
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition
>
>
>
> I think HD radio's days are numbered.  It has not caught on with the 
> general
> public,  and it is almost impossible to find home radios and audio 
> receivers
> with HD tuners.  In the mid-1970's, Dolby FM was touted as a great
leap
> forward in radio sound quality, but it too, never caught on.
>
> Gerald
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Aldrich" <jkaldrich at qwest.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition
>
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> A radio reading service could end up on a digital stream which would
make
>> it
>> heard by anyone!  I don't feel that's problematic! Again, the proof
is in
>> the pudding here!
>>
>> My brother was saying the digital TV stations aren't at their full
power
>> yet
>> so we'll see how things go.  Digital radio certainly will be
interesting!
>> We have two stereo AM stations thanks to HD radio and they sound
quite
>> good!
>> Too bad they are simply playing gospel stuff.  I have nothing against
>> that,
>> just wish I had other forms of music available to me.  Our public FM
>> station
>> has one digital stream and it is sounding better by the day.  It will
be
>> nice if they added an additional stream so if one is doing talk, the 
>> other
>> could be playing music.
>>
>> For what it is worth!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> will
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition
>>
>>
>> Jim, You are right about stations not broadcasting their digital
>> signals at the same power level with analog signal, in radio, but not
>> TV.  Radio digital signals are immediately adjacent to tthe analog
>> signals, but television digital signals are at totally different
>> frequencies from the analog stations, so they are already at the
>> power they will be at.
>>
>> If and when analog radio goes away we could see the digital power go
>> up, but since there are hundreds of millions of analog radios, it
>> will be no time soon.  There are actually a couple proposals from
>> radio stations and equipment manufacturers and trade groups to up the
>> digital power somewhat, but no decision has been made.  There has
>> been some testing, but not enough and some feel to much increase will
>> cause interference, so must be done on a station by station
>> basis.  Further, one entity that could get hurt, if there is an
>> increase are analog radio reading services.  There has been no
>> testing of this to date though.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 04:26 PM 2/2/2009, you wrote:
>>> Hi Dave and list,
>>>
>>> My brother works in TV repair.  We of course are in rural America
>>> (Billings
>>> MT) and often he goes to surrounding communities where TV may be 
>>> marginal
>>> at
>>> best.  He often says when he is in one of the small communities
where TV
>>> has
>>> a marginal signal and the person has one of the newer digital sets,
he
>>> switches to the digital signal and instead of hearing multipath and 
>>> seeing
>>> fuzzy picture on the analog signal, the person gets a perfect
digital
>>> signal.  This seems to happen continually!  I find that interesting!
I
>>> too
>>> understand that digital signals are coming in  or they are not!
There 
>>> is
>>> no
>>> middle ground!  This is also true with satellite radio or Iboc HD
radio.
>>> The incoming signal needs to be strong enough for the TV, radio etc.
to
>>> properly decode the digital signal. One other thing my brother
stated
>>> which
>>> could give hope to people.  most broadcasters aren't devoting the
full
>>> power
>>> to their signal presently till they must broadcast a digital signal
full
>>> time and stop their analog broadcasts!
>>>
>>> I think too we will find some devices will decode a digital signal 
>>> better
>>> than others.  I would guess a digital TV set would do better
bringing in 
>>> a
>>> digital signal than the converter.  We certainly know that some
analog
>>> radios and TVS work better than others and I think this still will
hold
>>> true
>>> today despite the fact that a signal is either there or it isn't!
>>>
>>> Our two main stations also have secondary programming on their
digital
>>> signal.  One of our channels is CBS but they broadcast the CW
network on
>>> their secondary channel.  Our other main channel broadcasts a
weather
>>> service on their secondary channel.  As this gets further along, I
>>> wouldn't
>>> be surprised to find two separate programs on a given channel.
Let's
>>> assume
>>> the main channel has a local college football game or high school
>>> tournament.  The secondary channel could have a football game or
>>> basketball
>>> game from a national network.  I think we will see any number of
>>> possibilities here. Of course, all of this could be a good thing!
If
>>> people
>>> can't see their TV, they may go back to reading books, audio books
no
>>> less!
>>>
>>> The proof is in the pudding so to speak!  Guess we'll see what
happens
>>> when
>>> it happens.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, one of the dirty little digital TV secrets, that
>>> broadcasters have known for years, is that reception in highly urban
>>> areas isn't that great.  There can be dead areas, buildings can
block
>>> the signal etc.  As you say, if the signal strength is to low, you
>>> get nothing.  On the good side, if you have enough of a signal you
>>> have a perfect picture etc., anyone who gets a strong enough signal
>>> for the equipment to lock on to, has the same high quality signal.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 12:59 PM 1/31/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Based on the experience I just had attempting to install  a digital
>>>> TV converter box, don't expect to see radios with built-in DTV
>>>> tuners any time soon.  I purchased a Digital Stream DTX9950 box at
>>>> my local Radio Shack to use with my small portable kitchen TV, and
>>>> needed lots of sighted assistance to set it up.  The online version
>>>> of the instruction manual was in PDF format that Adobe Reader was
>>>> unable to translate because of a plethora of graphics,  and
>>>> therefore was totally inaccessible.  However, once connected to the
>>>> TV, the box  was unable to provide consistent reception on any of
my
>>>> local VHF channels using a hefty indoor antenna.  I live in
>>>> Manhattan, not in the boondocks, so proximity to the transmitters
>>>> atop the Empire State Building is not an issue.  Unlike analog TV
>>>> channels, which still remain audible even when weak, digital
>>>> channels drop out completely if the signal is too weak.  So you get
>>>> no picture or sound at all.  At least with analog TV's, you can
>>>> still hear the channel even with a weak signal.  Because of this
>>>> "all or nothing" phenomenon, it will be impossible to produce a
>>>> usable portable radio with a built-in DTV tuner until the
technology
>>>> drastically improves.  For those of you who do not yet have cable
or
>>>> satellite TV, be forewarned that even if you purchase a DTV
>>>> converter box or full-fledged digital TV, there is no guarantee
that
>>>> it will work with an indoor antenna. If you live in an apartment
>>>> building, your landlord may not permit the installation of a
rooftop
>>>> antenna.  Cable and satellite TV is not cheap. Here in New York
>>>> City, basic cable rates start at about $60 per month.  If you sign
>>>> up for one of the teaser double- or triple-play packages, you will
>>>> be hit with a huge rate increase after the first year.  You could
>>>> wind up spending over $150 per month when the introductory offer
>>>> period expires.  So as I said previously, the digital TV transition
>>>> will likely have a very disruptive impact on many disabled and
blind
>>>> consumers.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson"
>>>> <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:22 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And how will this change by June?  I wish it would, though.  I
>>>>> wonder if anyone will have a portable digital TV Radio at
>>>>> some point, or if any of these converters are small, can be
>>>>> operated from batteries, with audio outputs?  ?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 07:00:31 -0500, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> And the 70% of blind people who are unemployed is no big deal
either.
>>>>>> After
>>>>>> all, most of them already have cable TV, talking computers, GPS
>>>>>> navigation
>>>>>> gizmos and all manner of assistive technology, so they really
don't
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> jobs to support this comfortable life style anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" 
>>>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:51 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] Digital TV Transition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, it has been announced for years and I also have no
>>>>>>> sympathy.
>>>>>>> Broadcasters have big money involved, tower climbers set up
months
>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>> antenna switches etc.  It can also cost $20,000 in electricity
each
>>>>>>> month
>>>>>>> to run an analog TV transmitter.  It is also my understanding
that
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the phone companies has a multimillion dollar advertising
campaign
>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> launch the day after cutoff to advertise its new services in
vacated
>>>>>>> TV
>>>>>>> space.  Phone companies and others have paid billions for the
>>>>>>> spectrum
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> they should be able to use it when they were told they could.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.s.  eighty-five percent of the country's population gets its
TV 
>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>> cable or satellite.  The 15 percent is not huge, and also second
or
>>>>>>> third
>>>>>>> TV's in a household.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 03:57 AM 1/30/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> The senate passed the delay; but, the house did not. I wish
y'all
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> get y'all's facts straight.  As for the proposed delay, I have
no
>>>>>>>> sympathy
>>>>>>>> for those who want it.  It's been announced for months, and,
people
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> had more than ample time to prepair.  IF anyone is not ready
now,
>>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>> too bad.  That's what they get for waiting till the last
minute.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>>>>>>>> abroad
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
your
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> land"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> George Seferis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 (985) 360-3375
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> e-mail:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Lange wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> Charlie writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, good news, they delayed the mandate by four months.
>>>>>>>>> Really?  I thought I'd heard on the radio the other night that
the
>>>>>>>>> proposed four-month delay wasn't going to happen. I hope the
>>>>>>>>> transition
>>>>>>>>> is delayed so that accessibility issues can be addressed and
>>>>>>>>> resolved.
>>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> rg/dandrews%40visi.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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