[Electronics-talk] descriptive TV

[David Andrews]

There are the so-called glass is half full people, and the glass is 
half empty people, but Gerald, you are a glass is a quarter full person.

I know two blind persons, personally, who work for target in the area 
of accessibility, and know a third who was just interviewed.

Accessibility of large corporate web sites can be a complex 
undertaking, and while individual pieces may move up and down some, I 
think that Target is now committed to moving to a better place.

Dave

At 03:10 PM 12/12/2012, you wrote:

>Oh sure, some companies bow to legal pressure in the beginning.  But 
>over time, they just revert back to their old practices.  A case in 
>point is Target.  They made their web site more accessible after 
>they were successfully sued by the NFB.  But since then, I have 
>found that their web site has actually become less accessible than 
>it was before the lawsuit. And what about other major retailers like 
>Home Depot?  Their web site, which includes an image captcha on the 
>check out page that Webvisum cannot decipher, is still 
>inaccessible.  So again, unless stiffer penalties are imposed for 
>failing to make products and web sites more accessible, nothing will 
>really change.
>
>Gerald
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances" 
><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:44 PM
>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>
>
>>I don't think this is true. Apple now has accessible products due in
>>part to federal legislation that kept government agencies from
>>purchasing inaccessible products. AOL, Google, Amazon and so on have all
>>bowed to pressure, legal and otherwise, to address accessibility issues.
>>No one has gone to jail or been prosecuted criminally in any of these
>>cases, and yet, changes were made and accessibility was improved. I
>>firmly believe that if we keep working hard at this, we will see
>>improvement.
>>
>>So are you suggesting that we should be changing laws and making these
>>criminal offences and bringing criminal charges against CEO's of
>>companies who violate these laws? I'm not sure that's even possible in
>>our corporate laws. Have you worked with anyone to see if this is
>>possible or what could be done to get more teeth put into these laws?
>>
>>On 12/12/12 10:55, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>
>>>But that's my point.  These laws are essentially unenforceable.  So
>>>while it's nice to claim a "victory" in the accessibility wars,alas, I'm
>>>afraid it is only a paper victory.  Only when failing to make products
>>>universally accessible is treated as a criminal offense will anything
>>>change.
>>>
>>>Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>>>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Cc: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:05 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>>>
>>>
>>>>My aren't we bitter and angry this morning. The only way we can make
>>>>these changes is by passing loss, and then demanding  that they  be
>>>>enforced.
>>>>
>>>>You can sit and wine
>>>>About how laws don't work if you want to, but frankly they're  about
>>>>the only thing that ever has.
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>On Dec 12, 2012, at 7:51 AM, "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If this is true, then why does Time Warner, my cable provider, claim
>>>>>that it knows nothing about any legal requirement to offer accessible
>>>>>cable boxes? To be perfectly blunt, I think this law is a big waste
>>>>>of time, and absolutely nothing will come of it.  So what if the
>>>>>cable providers refuse to comply?  Are their executives going to be
>>>>>arrested and prosecuted for violating the civil rights of their
>>>>>disabled customers? Of course not. Will the companies be fined?
>>>>>Maybe.  And if they're fined, they'll simply pass the cost along to
>>>>>their customers in the form of higher monthly cable bills. And we
>>>>>blind customers will still be unable to access described programming.
>>>>>So file all the complaints you want with the FCC if it makes you feel
>>>>>better, but you can be sure that the fat-ass bureaucrats there will
>>>>>simply shrug them off.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gerald
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Wayland"
>>>>><larry.wayland at arkansas.gov>
>>>>>To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'"
>>>>><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:50 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe it is the Twenty first century communications and video
>>>>>>act of 2010 that says formal complaints can be filed after October
>>>>>>of 2013. The law was signed by the president in August of 2010 and
>>>>>>companies have two years from that time to get their  equipment in
>>>>>>compliance.  My understanding the law includes all communications
>>>>>>equipment. It doesn't mean all models a company produces has to be
>>>>>>accessible, but they have to offer models that are.
>>>>>>Larry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:12 AM
>>>>>>To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So waht?  We still can't access this described programming because
>>>>>>there is no way to navigate the onscreen menus of most cable boxes
>>>>>>and digital TV's without sighted help to turn on the SAP channel
>>>>>>that carries the descriptive audio. And most remote controls no
>>>>>>longer have a dedicated SAP button, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gerald
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "A. Chew" <a1chew at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:58 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 25, 2011, the FCC was finally able to vote (unanimously) to
>>>>>>>reinstate video description, effective July 1, 2012.  ABC, CBS,
>>>>>>>Fox, NBC,
>>>>>>>USA, the Disney Channel, TNT, Nickelodeon, and TBS are each
>>>>>>>required to
>>>>>>>provide 50 hours of video-described prime time or children's
>>>>>>>programming
>>>>>>>per calendar quarter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>full text may be found at below link
>>>>>>>http://www.acb.org/adp/tv.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>at the bottom of the linked page will be links to file a complaint
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>the FCC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was surprised to received a call from Comcast a few weeks after
>>>>>>>filing a
>>>>>>>complain.
>>>>>>>issue is still open... (not resolved)  but Comcast claims they are
>>>>>>>working
>>>>>>>on it....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A. Chew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>><bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>>><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:05 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>>>>this is bad news. You're saying that time warner and
>>>>>>>>Comcast are not providing descriptive audio when its now the law.
>>>>>>>>I cannot speak for cox cable as I have not asked. But I suspect
>>>>>>>>when I
>>>>>>>>do, they will have no clue.
>>>>>>>>what it is either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My parents can read the options on the screen and we never see
>>>>>>>>descriptive audio. So like
>>>>>>>>Mariea said, I suspect that descriptive tv doesn't exist either
>>>>>>>>for me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If I cannot get it, is there a way to file a complaint with the
>>>>>>>>FCC and
>>>>>>>>how?
>>>>>>>>Is there a way to download descriptive tv shows from online? even
>>>>>>>>if its
>>>>>>>>paid, I'd like to have old shows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ashley
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Mariea Harris
>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:04 PM
>>>>>>>>To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] descriptive TV
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Time Warner Cable doesn't support audio description either. When I
>>>>>>>>read
>>>>>>>>up
>>>>>>>>on audio description, it said that cable companies use analog and
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>satellite uses something else, but I forget what. It seems that
>>>>>>>>the only
>>>>>>>>way
>>>>>>>>you can get audio description here in the states is via satellite
>>>>>>>>TV. We
>>>>>>>>turned on SAP on our TV and nothing happens. I doubt Time Warner
>>>>>>>>has any
>>>>>>>>clue what audio description is either, so I've not bothered asking.