[Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City

Wed Apr 10 21:36:15 UTC 2013

As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the 
IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold an 
IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the touchscreen 
to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning with a white 
cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around the neck to leave 
both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons that are easy to 
locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand free to navigate with 
a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an effective GPS Device, is it 
really safe to use for this purpose?  Navigating around a sparse, suburban 
or rural setting or a college campus with an IPhone might make sense, but a 
crowded, noisy urban environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple 
bites,for what they're worth.

Gerald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances" 
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City

> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check people's 
> blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a multipurpose device 
> can't perform the function of a dedicated device just as well if not 
> better than a dedicated device. As I've said before, it just depends on 
> the technology included in the different devices.
>
> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know what 
> dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase an 
> iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing to do 
> with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and why 
> wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs then 
> there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to your 
> smart phone.
>
> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a dedicated 
> MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in getting a 
> dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my iPhone.
>
> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why 
> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is 
> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping 
> anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a 
> question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a 
> BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been 
> asked and answered
> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that the
>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but until
>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>
>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>
>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>> much less so.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>> IPhone could
>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>> Breeze. A
>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>> demonstrating
>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>> The unit
>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>> problem
>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>> your ear
>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>> is a
>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>> >Apple?
>>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first 
>>>> >released.
>>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>> that
>>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>> >tower
>>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>> hot
>>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>> >
>>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>> produced >>a
>>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town 
>>>> >>of
>>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>> is >>not
>>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>> in >>a
>>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>> >>line
>>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Gerald
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>> speak
>>>> >>>from experience.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>> >>>>probably
>>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 
>>>> >>>>blocks
>>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>> >>>>than
>>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>> >>>>reliable
>>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>>> >>>>Tracy
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>--
>>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>>> >>>
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
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