[Electronics-talk] Electronics-talk Digest, Gps in the big city

Thu Apr 11 13:40:57 UTC 2013

On 4/11/13, electronics-talk-request at nfbnet.org
<electronics-talk-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send Electronics-talk mailing list submissions to
> 	electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	electronics-talk-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	electronics-talk-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Electronics-talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: GPS in the Big City (Baracco, Andrew W)
>    2. Re: GPS in the Big City (Jim Barbour)
>    3. Re: GPS in the Big City (Gerald Levy)
>    4. Re: GPS in the Big City (Jim Barbour)
>    5. Re: GPS in the Big City (Christopher Chaltain)
>    6. Re: GPS in the Big City (Gerald Levy)
>    7. Re: GPS in the Big City (Jim Barbour)
>    8. Re: GPS in the Big City (Christopher Chaltain)
>    9. Re: GPS in the Big City (Gerald Levy)
>   10. Re: GPS in the Big City (Kaye)
>   11. Re: GPS in the Big City (Christopher Chaltain)
>   12. Re: GPS in the Big City (Gerald Levy)
>   13. Re: GPS in the Big City (Christopher Chaltain)
>   14. question about a Mack computer (Becky Sabo)
>   15. Re: question about a Mack computer (Ray Foret Jr)
>   16. Re: question about a Mack computer (Gabe Vega Via Iphone4S)
>   17. Re: accessible dishwasher, refrigerator,	and washer and dryer
>       (Comcast e-mail)
>   18. Re: GPS in the Big City (James Aldrich)
>   19. is there such a thing (Lauren Merryfield)
>   20. Re: is there such a thing (Ray Foret Jr)
>   21. Re: is there such a thing (Kenneth David Tuck)
>   22. Re: question about a Mack computer (Jude DaShiell)
>   23. Re: aps for IOS device (William T. Miller)
>   24. Re: is there such a thing (Stephen Guerra)
>   25. Re: GPS in the Big City (Tracy Carcione)
>   26. question about an app. (Jenny Keller)
>   27. Re: GPS in the Big City (Gerald Levy)
>   28. Fw: [nfbcs] Looking for Blind VoiceOver Users To	Test SideCar
>       Ride Sharing App & Report Accessibility Experiences (Tracy Carcione)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:08:06 -0700
> From: "Baracco, Andrew W" <Andrew.Baracco at va.gov>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID:
> 	<EE84AA38E4FCDD42AE64E566B9247B9A1159854A at VHAV22MSGA1.v22.med.va.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> And this is because the iPhone uses cell tower data as well as info from
> the GPS receiver.
>
> Andy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jim Barbour
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 AM
> To: Tracy Carcione; Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Cc: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
> Hey Tracy,
>
> I can say for sure that the iPhone works better New York City then the
> Sandero braille note PK solution.
>
> I used to used the Sendero  Solution several years ago, but used iPhone
> the last two times I was in New York. Much, much better.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 8:49 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably
> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than
> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable
> in the big city?
>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
> Jersey, the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>> Thanks.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40bar
> core.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/andrew.bar
> acco%40va.gov
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:23:33 -0700
> From: Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <20130410172333.GB9020 at barcore.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Cell tower data, wifi hotspots, better GPS receiver than the bluetooth
> receiver Tracy probably has, etc.
>
> The point is, it's a better location system.
>
> BTW, Sendero will probably have an iPhone app out in the next few
> months.  It will probably prove a fairly easy transition from the
> Braillenote/Sendero solution.
>
> JIm
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:08:06AM -0700, Baracco, Andrew W wrote:
>> And this is because the iPhone uses cell tower data as well as info from
>> the GPS receiver.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim Barbour
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 AM
>> To: Tracy Carcione; Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>> Hey Tracy,
>>
>> I can say for sure that the iPhone works better New York City then the
>> Sandero braille note PK solution.
>>
>> I used to used the Sendero  Solution several years ago, but used iPhone
>> the last two times I was in New York. Much, much better.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 8:49 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably
>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than
>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable
>> in the big city?
>> > I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>> Jersey, the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>> > Thanks.
>> > Tracy
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Electronics-talk mailing list
>> > Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40bar
>> core.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/andrew.bar
>> acco%40va.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 14:35:02 -0400
> From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <5087E811FFBC4B7AAF06252C23B0B100 at glevy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=response
>
>
> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced a
> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often announced
>
> incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is not a
> particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would stand to
>
> reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in a major city
> with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct line of sight to
> the orbiting GPS satellites.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>> I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but iPhone/Android
>> running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot triangulation
>>
>> to improve location reliability. I would think this would help quite a bit
>>
>> in a large metropolitan area, but I can't speak from experience.
>>
>> On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably
>>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than
>>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable
>>> in the big city?
>>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north Jersey,
>>> the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:42:28 -0700
> From: Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <20130410184226.GD9020 at barcore.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think you're talking about the lookaround app.  The biggest problem
> with that app is the map data.
>
> If you use something like "where to?", "around me", or even "blind
> square", you'll find that the iPhone does a great job with GPS.
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 02:35:02PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced a
>> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
>> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>> announced
>> incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is not a
>> particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would stand
>> to
>> reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in a major
>> city
>> with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct line of sight to
>> the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>> >I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but iPhone/Android
>> >running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>> > triangulation
>> >to improve location reliability. I would think this would help quite a
>> > bit
>> >in a large metropolitan area, but I can't speak from experience.
>> >
>> >On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> >>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>> >>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably
>> >>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>> >>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than
>> >>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>> >>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>> >>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable
>> >>in the big city?
>> >>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north Jersey,
>> >>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>> >>Thanks.
>> >>Tracy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>Electronics-talk:
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >Christopher (CJ)
>> >chaltain at Gmail
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >Electronics-talk:
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:45:51 -0500
> From: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <5165B35F.3090007 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
> follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
> Apple? If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
> released. Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall
> buildings will block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you
> say below that this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also,
> using cell tower and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS
> accuracy, and I would expect New York City has quite a few cell towers
> and documented wifi hot spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite
> a bit.
>
> On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced a
>> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
>> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>> announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is not
>> a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>> stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in a
>> major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct line
>> of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but iPhone/Android
>>> running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>> triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>> would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't speak
>>> from experience.
>>>
>>> On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably
>>>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>>>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than
>>>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable
>>>> in the big city?
>>>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north Jersey,
>>>> the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:50:49 -0400
> From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <297DAC4E67B843198AE14763F72C2042 at glevy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=response
>
>
> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the IPhone could
>
> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker Breeze.
> A few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
> demonstrating the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown
> Manhattan.  The unit did not always announce the correct streets or building
>
> addresses, a problem attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the
>
> area.  Besides, walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone
> glued to your ear while trying to listen for traffic and other important
> auditory clues is a recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind
> person is just as dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>>I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from Apple?
>>If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first released. Was
>>
>>wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will block
>>satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below that this is
>>
>>why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell tower and wifi
>>
>>hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would expect New
>>York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi hot spots, so
>>this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>
>> On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>
>>> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced a
>>> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
>>> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>> announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is not
>>> a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>> stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in a
>>> major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct line
>>> of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but iPhone/Android
>>>> running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>> triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>> would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't speak
>>>> from experience.
>>>>
>>>> On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>> probably
>>>>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>>>>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than
>>>>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable
>>>>> in the big city?
>>>>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>> Jersey,
>>>>> the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:06:08 -0700
> From: Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <20130410200607.GE9020 at barcore.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>
> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>
> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
> much less so.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the IPhone
>> could
>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker Breeze.
>> A
>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>> demonstrating
>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.  The
>> unit
>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>> problem
>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to your
>> ear
>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues is
>> a
>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>> > Apple?
>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first released.
>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below that
>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>> > tower
>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi hot
>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>> >
>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced
>> >> a
>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is
>> >> not
>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in
>> >> a
>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>> >> line
>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>> >>
>> >>Gerald
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but iPhone/Android
>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't speak
>> >>>from experience.
>> >>>
>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>> >>>> probably
>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>> >>>> than
>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>> >>>> reliable
>> >>>>in the big city?
>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>> >>>> Jersey,
>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>> >>>>Thanks.
>> >>>>Tracy
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>--
>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>> >>>
>> >>>_______________________________________________
>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>Electronics-talk:
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >Christopher (CJ)
>> >chaltain at Gmail
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >Electronics-talk:
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:12:44 -0500
> From: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <5165C7BC.3050203 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Whether a dedicated device is more accurate than a multipurpose device
> is entirely dependent on the technology being used. Like I said, a
> dedicated GPS device might not include triangulation of cellular towers
> and wifi hotspots, which you can get with devices that include wifi and
> cellular radios. I think it's a big mistake to assume that just because
> a device can perform multiple functions it's somehow inferior to a
> dedicated device. That's not to say the dedicated devices can't be
> superior, but I just think it's a mistake to jump to a conclusion one
> way or the other.
>
> Note that this thread was also just talking about accuracy. It didn't
> discuss usability, where a dedicated device could have a big advantage.
> It also didn't discuss whether using GPS devices was safe or a good idea
> or not.
>
> On 04/10/2013 02:50 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the IPhone
>> could possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>> Breeze. A few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>> demonstrating the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown
>> Manhattan.  The unit did not always announce the correct streets or
>> building addresses, a problem attributable to the multitude of tall
>> buildings in the area.  Besides, walking around in a noisy urban
>> environment with an IPhone glued to your ear while trying to listen for
>> traffic and other important auditory clues is a recipe for trouble.
>> Distracted walking for a blind person is just as dangerous as distracted
>> driving is for a sighted person.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>> follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>> Apple? If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>> released. Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall
>>> buildings will block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what
>>> you say below that this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron.
>>> Also, using cell tower and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS
>>> accuracy, and I would expect New York City has quite a few cell towers
>>> and documented wifi hot spots, so this accuracy could be improved
>>> quite a bit.
>>>
>>> On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced
>>>> a
>>>> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
>>>> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>> announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is
>>>> not
>>>> a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>>> stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in
>>>> a
>>>> major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>> line
>>>> of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but iPhone/Android
>>>>> running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>>> triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>>> would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't speak
>>>>> from experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>>>>>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>>>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>>>> reliable
>>>>>> in the big city?
>>>>>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>>> Jersey,
>>>>>> the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:34:58 -0400
> From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <1FBE9E30AFEA45DA8A4C8DA998B4BC2F at glevy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=original
>
>
> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that the
> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but until I
> hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next, someone
> will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more effectively
>
> than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just limits to what a
> single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone, plus a $1200
> commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is certainly
> moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>
>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>
>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>> much less so.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>
>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the IPhone
>>> could
>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>> Breeze. A
>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>> demonstrating
>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.  The
>>> unit
>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>> problem
>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to your
>>>
>>> ear
>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues is
>>>
>>> a
>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>
>>>
>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>> >Apple?
>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first released.
>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>> > that
>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>> >tower
>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>> > hot
>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>> >
>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced
>>> >>
>>> >>a
>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town of
>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is
>>> >>not
>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in
>>> >>
>>> >>a
>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>> >>line
>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>> >>
>>> >>Gerald
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>> >>> iPhone/Android
>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>> >>> speak
>>> >>>from experience.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>> >>>>probably
>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks
>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>> >>>>than
>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>> >>>>reliable
>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>> >>>>Tracy
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>> for
>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>--
>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>> >>>
>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >--
>>> >Christopher (CJ)
>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>> >
>>> >_______________________________________________
>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >Electronics-talk:
>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:01:06 -0400
> From: "Kaye" <kayezimpher at comcast.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <FC3969EFD1964FD2B7101AA7D5A26152 at kayezimpherPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
> I am from Atlanta, and while that is no Manhattan, I know many blind people
>
> who successfully use various gps apps on their Iphones. I have only heard of
>
> one time that the gps advised a person to turn on to the highway, even
> though the app was in pedestrian mode. That might not have ended well if he
>
> had not know where he was going.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:37 PM
> To: Tracy Carcione ; Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
> I have used Street Talk on a Pac Mate, in the distant past, and in
> Philadelphia, I had the same problems with tall buildings.\
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:49 AM 4/10/2013, you wrote:
>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a Braillenote
>>
>>PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably because of the
>>
>>many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks away from where I
>>know I am, and heading in a different direction than I'm heading.  My
>>question is, does this happen with all GPS in big cities, or is it because
>>
>>the GPS is running on a PK, not the most powerful system in the world?
>>Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable in the big city?
>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north Jersey, the
>>
>>Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>Thanks.
>>Tracy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/kayezimpher%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:20:29 -0500
> From: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <5165D79D.8000307 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check
> people's blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a
> multipurpose device can't perform the function of a dedicated device
> just as well if not better than a dedicated device. As I've said before,
> it just depends on the technology included in the different devices.
>
> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know
> what dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase
> an iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing
> to do with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and
> why wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs
> then there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to
> your smart phone.
>
> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a
> dedicated MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in
> getting a dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my
> iPhone.
>
> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping
> anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a
> question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a
> BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been
> asked and answered
> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that the
>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but until
>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>
>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>
>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>> much less so.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>> IPhone could
>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>> Breeze. A
>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>> demonstrating
>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>> The unit
>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>> problem
>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>> your ear
>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>> is a
>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>> >Apple?
>>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>> > released.
>>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>> that
>>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>> >tower
>>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>> hot
>>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>> >
>>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>> produced >>a
>>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>>>> >> of
>>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>> is >>not
>>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>> in >>a
>>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>> >>line
>>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Gerald
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>> speak
>>>> >>>from experience.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>> >>>>probably
>>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>> >>>> blocks
>>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>> >>>>than
>>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>> >>>>reliable
>>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>>> >>>>Tracy
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>--
>>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>> for
>>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> >Electronics-talk:
>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:36:15 -0400
> From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <CE9666882C07401E9408BA6628EA79A1 at glevy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=response
>
>
> As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the
> IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold an
> IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the touchscreen
>
> to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning with a white
> cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around the neck to leave
> both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons that are easy to
> locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand free to navigate with
>
> a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an effective GPS Device, is it
> really safe to use for this purpose?  Navigating around a sparse, suburban
> or rural setting or a college campus with an IPhone might make sense, but a
>
> crowded, noisy urban environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple
> bites,for what they're worth.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check people's
>>
>> blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a multipurpose device
>> can't perform the function of a dedicated device just as well if not
>> better than a dedicated device. As I've said before, it just depends on
>> the technology included in the different devices.
>>
>> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know what
>>
>> dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase an
>> iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing to do
>>
>> with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and why
>> wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs then
>> there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to your
>> smart phone.
>>
>> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a dedicated
>>
>> MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in getting a
>> dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my iPhone.
>>
>> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
>> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
>> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping
>> anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a
>> question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a
>> BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been
>> asked and answered
>> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>
>>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that the
>>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but until
>>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>>
>>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>>
>>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>>> much less so.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>>> IPhone could
>>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>>> Breeze. A
>>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>>> demonstrating
>>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>>> The unit
>>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>>> problem
>>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>>> your ear
>>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>>> is a
>>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>>> >Apple?
>>>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>>> >released.
>>>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>>>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>>> that
>>>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>>> >tower
>>>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>>>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>>> hot
>>>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>>> produced >>a
>>>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>>>>> >>of
>>>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>>> is >>not
>>>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>>> in >>a
>>>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>>> >>line
>>>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Gerald
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>>> speak
>>>>> >>>from experience.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>> >>>>probably
>>>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>>> >>>>blocks
>>>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>>> >>>>than
>>>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>>> >>>>reliable
>>>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>>>> >>>>Tracy
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>--
>>>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >>>for
>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >> for
>>>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>>>> >
>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> >Electronics-talk:
>>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:27:00 -0500
> From: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <5165E734.6070405 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I guess I don't see where using the iPhone in NYC would be any different
> than using any other GPS device in NYC. Before starting your route,
> while in your living room or a coffee shop, you'd pull up your GPS app
> of choice, punch in your route. and turn on voice guided turn by turn
> directions. Now using open air wired headphones or a bluetooth ear bud
> and dropping your iPhone in a pocket or a holster, you'd walk your route
> with your hands free using your cane or guide dog and listening for the
> audio queues from the app running on your iPhone. There's no reason to
> hold the iPhone to your head or constantly be swiping at it. Of course,
> you may not want the audio queues interfering with your ability to
> listen to what's going on around you, but this would be true for any GPS
> device.
>
> On 04/10/2013 04:36 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>> As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the
>> IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold
>> an IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the
>> touchscreen to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning
>> with a white cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around
>> the neck to leave both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons
>> that are easy to locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand
>> free to navigate with a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an
>> effective GPS Device, is it really safe to use for this purpose?
>> Navigating around a sparse, suburban or rural setting or a college
>> campus with an IPhone might make sense, but a crowded, noisy urban
>> environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple bites,for what
>> they're worth.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check
>>> people's blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a
>>> multipurpose device can't perform the function of a dedicated device
>>> just as well if not better than a dedicated device. As I've said
>>> before, it just depends on the technology included in the different
>>> devices.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know
>>> what dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to
>>> purchase an iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that
>>> have nothing to do with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is
>>> a sunk cost and why wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it
>>> meets your needs then there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS
>>> device in addition to your smart phone.
>>>
>>> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a
>>> dedicated MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in
>>> getting a dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on
>>> my iPhone.
>>>
>>> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
>>> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
>>> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is
>>> keeping anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started
>>> with a question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC
>>> than a BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question
>>> has been asked and answered
>>> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>>>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that
>>>> the
>>>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but
>>>> until
>>>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>>>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>>>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>>>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>>>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>>>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>>>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>>>
>>>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>>>
>>>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>>>> much less so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>>>> IPhone could
>>>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>>>> Breeze. A
>>>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>>>> demonstrating
>>>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>>>> The unit
>>>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.
>>>>>> Besides,
>>>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>>>> your ear
>>>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your
>>>>>> > conclusion
>>>>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>>>> >Apple?
>>>>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>>>> >released.
>>>>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings
>>>>>> > will
>>>>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>>>> >tower
>>>>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I
>>>>>> > would
>>>>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>>>> hot
>>>>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>>>> produced >>a
>>>>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home
>>>>>> town >>of
>>>>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>>>> is >>not
>>>>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it
>>>>>> >> would
>>>>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>>>> in >>a
>>>>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>>>> >>line
>>>>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>Gerald
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>>>> speak
>>>>>> >>>from experience.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>>> >>>>probably
>>>>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>>>> >>>>blocks
>>>>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>>>> >>>>than
>>>>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in
>>>>>> >>>> big
>>>>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>>>> >>>>reliable
>>>>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>>>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>>>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>>>>> >>>>Tracy
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>--
>>>>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info >>>for
>>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> > for
>>>>>> >Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:19:07 -0600
> From: "Becky Sabo" <beckyasabo at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Electronics-talk] question about a Mack computer
> Message-ID: <001a01ce3641$cda79850$68f6c8f0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
> I just purchase a Mack computer.  I love it a lot but I have some questions
> and I was wondering if you could help me or recommend where else to get
> help
> from'  Is there a list serve for Mack users?  Is there a program to use
> like
> word on the Mack?
> What kind of apps are good.  Any help would be great.
> Becky Sabo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerald Levy
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:36 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
> As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the
> IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold an
> IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the
> touchscreen
> to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning with a white
> cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around the neck to leave
> both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons that are easy to
> locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand free to navigate
> with
> a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an effective GPS Device, is it
> really safe to use for this purpose?  Navigating around a sparse, suburban
> or rural setting or a college campus with an IPhone might make sense, but a
> crowded, noisy urban environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple
> bites,for what they're worth.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check people's
>>
>> blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a multipurpose device
>> can't perform the function of a dedicated device just as well if not
>> better than a dedicated device. As I've said before, it just depends on
>> the technology included in the different devices.
>>
>> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know what
>>
>> dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase an
>> iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing to
>> do
>
>> with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and why
>> wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs then
>> there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to your
>> smart phone.
>>
>> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a dedicated
>>
>> MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in getting a
>> dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my iPhone.
>>
>> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
>> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
>> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping
>> anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a
>> question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a
>> BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been
>> asked and answered
>> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>
>>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that the
>>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but until
>>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>>
>>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>>
>>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>>> much less so.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>>> IPhone could
>>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>>> Breeze. A
>>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>>> demonstrating
>>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>>> The unit
>>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>>> problem
>>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>>> your ear
>>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>>> is a
>>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>>> >Apple?
>>>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>>> >released.
>>>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>>>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>>> that
>>>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>>> >tower
>>>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>>>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>>> hot
>>>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>>> produced >>a
>>>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>>>>> >>of
>>>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>>> is >>not
>>>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>>> in >>a
>>>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>>> >>line
>>>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Gerald
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>>> speak
>>>>> >>>from experience.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>> >>>>probably
>>>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>>> >>>>blocks
>>>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>>> >>>>than
>>>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>>> >>>>reliable
>>>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>>>> >>>>Tracy
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%4
> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>--
>>>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >>>for
>>>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>>>>>
>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited
> %40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> >> for
>>>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>>>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40g
> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>>>> >
>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> >Electronics-talk:
>>>>>
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%4
> 0verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
> verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gma
> il.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
> verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40g
> mail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:00:03 -0500
> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com, Discussion of accessible electronics and
> 	appliances	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] question about a Mack computer
> Message-ID: <1CF8EA47-04CE-48C5-AFDF-E3011BA07095 at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Well Becky, your question seems a bit general.  However, I can tell you that
> the version of Word on the Mac is worse than useless.  If it's text editing
> you want, The Mac has a built in app called Text Editor.  The only thing it
> won't do is wash your dishes for you.  But seriously.  It's missing the
> ability to give you a word count.  Don't worry though, there are ways to
> deal with that.  There's an app called Word Count which will give you this.
> For CD ripping, I'd use Max.  that's easier than using ITunes to do it.  For
> CD and DVD burning, there's a free app called Burn.  For built in keyboard
> help, tjust press VO+K and then start playing around.  You'll get told
> exactly what keyboard commands you are pressing.  To get out of keyboard
> help, just press escape.
>
>
> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in!
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 6:19 PM, "Becky Sabo" <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I just purchase a Mack computer.  I love it a lot but I have some
>> questions
>> and I was wondering if you could help me or recommend where else to get
>> help
>> from'  Is there a list serve for Mack users?  Is there a program to use
>> like
>> word on the Mack?
>> What kind of apps are good.  Any help would be great.
>> Becky Sabo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gerald Levy
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:36 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>> As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the
>> IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold an
>> IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the
>> touchscreen
>> to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning with a white
>> cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around the neck to
>> leave
>> both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons that are easy to
>> locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand free to navigate
>> with
>> a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an effective GPS Device, is
>> it
>> really safe to use for this purpose?  Navigating around a sparse,
>> suburban
>> or rural setting or a college campus with an IPhone might make sense, but
>> a
>> crowded, noisy urban environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple
>> bites,for what they're worth.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check people's
>>>
>>> blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a multipurpose device
>>>
>>> can't perform the function of a dedicated device just as well if not
>>> better than a dedicated device. As I've said before, it just depends on
>>> the technology included in the different devices.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know what
>>>
>>> dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase an
>>> iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing to
>>> do
>>
>>> with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and why
>>> wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs then
>>> there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to your
>>> smart phone.
>>>
>>> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a dedicated
>>>
>>> MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in getting a
>>> dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my iPhone.
>>>
>>> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
>>> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
>>> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping
>>> anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a
>>> question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a
>>> BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been
>>> asked and answered
>>> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>>>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that
>>>> the
>>>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but
>>>> until
>>>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>>>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>>>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>>>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>>>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>>>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>>>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>>>
>>>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>>>
>>>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>>>> much less so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>>>> IPhone could
>>>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>>>> Breeze. A
>>>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>>>> demonstrating
>>>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>>>> The unit
>>>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.
>>>>>> Besides,
>>>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>>>> your ear
>>>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your
>>>>>>> conclusion
>>>>>>> follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>> If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>> Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>>>>> tower
>>>>>>> and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>>>> hot
>>>>>>> spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>>>> produced >>a
>>>>>>>> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>>>>>> announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>>>> is >>not
>>>>>>>> a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>>>> in >>a
>>>>>>>> major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>> of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>>>>>>> running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>>>>>>> triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>>>>>>> would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>>>> speak
>>>>>>>>> from experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>>>>>>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>>>>>>>> blocks
>>>>>>>>>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in
>>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>>>>>>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>>>>>>>> reliable
>>>>>>>>>> in the big city?
>>>>>>>>>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>>>>>>> Jersey,
>>>>>>>>>> the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited
>> %40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40g
>> mail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%4
>> 0verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
>> .com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
>> verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gma
>> il.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
>> verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:17:30 -0700
> From: Gabe Vega Via Iphone4S <theblindtech at gmail.com>
> To: "beckyasabo at gmail.com" <beckyasabo at gmail.com>,	Discussion of
> 	accessible electronics and appliances	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] question about a Mack computer
> Message-ID: <E2D1455C-C4EF-4E24-B54A-76B2AAB584AF at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Here is a mac support site for the blind and visually impaired.
> http://commtechusa.net
>
>
> Gabe Vega
> Sent from my iPhone
> (623) 565-9357
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "Becky Sabo" <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I just purchase a Mack computer.  I love it a lot but I have some
>> questions
>> and I was wondering if you could help me or recommend where else to get
>> help
>> from'  Is there a list serve for Mack users?  Is there a program to use
>> like
>> word on the Mack?
>> What kind of apps are good.  Any help would be great.
>> Becky Sabo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gerald Levy
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:36 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>> As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the
>> IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold an
>> IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the
>> touchscreen
>> to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning with a white
>> cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around the neck to
>> leave
>> both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons that are easy to
>> locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand free to navigate
>> with
>> a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an effective GPS Device, is
>> it
>> really safe to use for this purpose?  Navigating around a sparse,
>> suburban
>> or rural setting or a college campus with an IPhone might make sense, but
>> a
>> crowded, noisy urban environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple
>> bites,for what they're worth.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check people's
>>>
>>> blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a multipurpose device
>>>
>>> can't perform the function of a dedicated device just as well if not
>>> better than a dedicated device. As I've said before, it just depends on
>>> the technology included in the different devices.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know what
>>>
>>> dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase an
>>> iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing to
>>> do
>>
>>> with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and why
>>> wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs then
>>> there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to your
>>> smart phone.
>>>
>>> I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a dedicated
>>>
>>> MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in getting a
>>> dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my iPhone.
>>>
>>> Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
>>> they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
>>> forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping
>>> anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a
>>> question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a
>>> BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been
>>> asked and answered
>>> On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>>>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that
>>>> the
>>>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but
>>>> until
>>>> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>>>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>>>> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>>>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>>>> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>>>> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>>>> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>>>
>>>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>>>
>>>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>>>> much less so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>>>>>> IPhone could
>>>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>>>> Breeze. A
>>>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>>>> demonstrating
>>>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>>>>>> The unit
>>>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.
>>>>>> Besides,
>>>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>>>>>> your ear
>>>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your
>>>>>>> conclusion
>>>>>>> follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>>>>> Apple?
>>>>>>> If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>> Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>>>>> tower
>>>>>>> and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>>>> hot
>>>>>>> spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>>>>>> produced >>a
>>>>>>>> podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>>>>>> announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>>>>>> is >>not
>>>>>>>> a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well
>>>>>> in >>a
>>>>>>>> major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>> of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gerald
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>>>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>>>> iPhone/Android
>>>>>>>>> running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>>>>>>> triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>>>>>>> would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>>>> speak
>>>>>>>>> from experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>>>>>>> Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>> because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>>>>>>>> blocks
>>>>>>>>>> away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in
>>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>>> cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>>>>>>>> powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>>>>>>>> reliable
>>>>>>>>>> in the big city?
>>>>>>>>>> I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>>>>>>>> Jersey,
>>>>>>>>>> the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited
>> %40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40g
>> mail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%4
>> 0verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
>> verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gma
>> il.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
>> verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/theblindtech%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:27:13 -0700
> From: "Comcast e-mail" <baltimore777 at comcast.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] accessible dishwasher, refrigerator,
> 	and washer and dryer
> Message-ID: <C4F74708B5B544B18F68CC155BCE57F3 at your90477e8f53>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
> Hi Dave, I would have thrown in my suggetions sooner but my Outlook Express
>
> on my computer had problems over the last two or three weeks so I just got
> this. I would concider using a braille labler to mark your applience
> controls. You'll have to update them every few years whenever the braille
> wares off or whenever you have to replace the applience itself. I don't know
>
> about already accessable appliences. I wish I could help you more!!!
> Kendra
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Bahr" <dcbahr1 at gmail.com>
> To: <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:22 PM
> Subject: [Electronics-talk] accessible dishwasher, refrigerator,and washer
> and dryer
>
>
> Hi there,
>
> I was recommended to this list by the folks over at cooking in the dark.
> I was wondering if I could get some suggestions for a relatively
> accessible dishwasher and refrigerator. My fianc? and I are moving into
> a condo and we need to inform the design center about what
> accommodations we might need.I am totally blind for the record.
>
> Regarding the dishwasher, I have done my research and found the American
> Foundation for the Blind articles but they are from 2007. They
> recommended Whirlpool and Kenmore brands but did not provide model
> numbers because they change so frequently. We need a built-in dishwasher
> rather than one that is top-down. I don't need to access that many
> settings but it would be nice to be able to control the temperature or
> the cycle. I know that you can put markings on the front panel or
> braille them, but it would be nice to have some built-in (in air quotes)
> accessible features. I have attempted to braille my dishwasher at my
> parents place but because the front panel gets hot when doing a dry
> cycle, the braille from the dymo labeler ended up falling off. The folks
> over at abledata.com recommended a few brands that have a strip of some
> sort of tactile markings that one can feel. This is, admittedly, a
> rather vague description but does anybody have something like this?
>
> Regarding the refrigerator, there is not much to it but I would rather
> not have one that has a digital screen above the ice and water filter
> controls. We need a side-by-side refrigerator as my fianc? is in a
> wheelchair and cannot use either a lower or upper freezer. I would
> rather not have one with one single button where one has to change from
> ice to water, but if you do have one or know of one that is accessible
> with a single button, I am flexible and open to any suggestions you may
> have.
>
> Re: washers and dryers, we have a GE model which is somewhat accessible
> because the knobs click and have an arrow on them. The complex that we
> are buying the condo in recommended the Whirlpool duet but the reviews
> on Amazon basically said that there washer and dryer is trash. I'm
> wondering if anybody has any suggestions for a more accessible model? I
> know the Whirlpool was favored in the 2007 AFB article for using tones
> as a means of recognition and accessibility. But if the washer and dryer
> isn't worth the money, the accessibility makes no difference.
>
> Regarding price, I'll pay whatever it takes to have something that is
> somehow blind friendly.
>
> any suggestions are appreciated,
> thanks, Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/baltimore777%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:07:17 -0600
> From: James Aldrich <jajkaldrich at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <B7F6E0F0-3B3B-42B2-8A12-0312EB5DEBFD at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Gerald and all,
>
> There is a free app called heart rate which is free to download to the
> IPhone!  One places their index finger on the phone's camera and one can
> hear a beep with their pulse.  One can hear numerically what their heart
> rate is!
>
> As for GPS, the GPS is only as good as the maps it uses.  The maps in the
> Trekker Breeze are updated every two years if one is lucky!  The IPhone has
> access to frequently updated apps from a number of sources.  I haven't been
> happy with the apps I have used on my IPhone with the exception of the $5
> dollar Sendero app.   It is limited but works well!  I'm looking forward to
> the comprehensive IPhone app from Sendero.  One's IPhone is always with the
> person using it! This isn't the case with the Trekker Breeze.
>
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 2:34 PM, "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce a
>> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that the
>> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but until I
>> hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will remain
>> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next, someone
>> will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure more
>> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just limits
>> to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone, plus a
>> $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is certainly
>> moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS device.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you how.
>>>
>>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>>>
>>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>>> much less so.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the IPhone
>>>> could
>>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>>>> Breeze. A
>>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>>>> demonstrating
>>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.  The
>>>> unit
>>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>>>> problem
>>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.  Besides,
>>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to your
>>>> ear
>>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory clues is
>>>> a
>>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just as
>>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>>>>
>>>> Gerald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your conclusion
>>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>>>> > >Apple?
>>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>>>> > released.
>>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings will
>>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>>>> > that
>>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>>>> > >tower
>>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I would
>>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented wifi
>>>> > hot
>>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>>>> >
>>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone produced
>>>> >> >>a
>>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>>>> >> of
>>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron is
>>>> >> >>not
>>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it would
>>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work well in
>>>> >> >>a
>>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the direct
>>>> >> >>line
>>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Gerald
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>>>> >>> iPhone/Android
>>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>>>> >>> speak
>>>> >>>from experience.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>>>> >>>> >>>>probably
>>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>>>> >>>> blocks
>>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction
>>>> >>>> >>>>than
>>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big
>>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most
>>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>>>> >>>> >>>>reliable
>>>> >>>>in the big city?
>>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>>>> >>>> >>>>Jersey,
>>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>> >>>>Thanks.
>>>> >>>>Tracy
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>>> for
>>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>--
>>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>> for
>>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> >Electronics-talk:
>>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Electronics-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jajkaldrich%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:28:41 -0700
> From: "Lauren Merryfield" <lauren1 at catliness.com>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Electronics-talk] is there such a thing
> Message-ID: <65060F1162CA4BE68A202E599DDC2A5D at homec1f191e91c>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
> I am wondering if there is such a thing as a receiver that I could take with
> me to other parts of my home to hear MLB's Game Day Audio as it is broadcast
> from my computer?  I want to listen to the games but not have to stay in my
> office to hear them.
>
> If there is such a thing, where do I get it?
> Thanks
> Lauren
>
> advice from my cats: "meow when you feel like it."
> The most basic of all human needs is the need to understand and be
> understood. The best way to understand people is to listen to them.
> -- Ralph Nichols
> Visit us at catliness.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:57:52 -0500
> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] is there such a thing
> Message-ID: <9354442E-50AF-410F-93A8-ACF86312593B at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> I know that Ccrane sells a cheep FM transmiter which you can connect to your
> computer and which will transmit up to about 30 feet or so.  You just tune
> in an ordinary FM radio and it picks up the signal.
>
>
> Sent from my mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in!
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
>
> On Apr 11, 2013, at 1:28 AM, "Lauren Merryfield" <lauren1 at catliness.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I am wondering if there is such a thing as a receiver that I could take
>> with me to other parts of my home to hear MLB's Game Day Audio as it is
>> broadcast from my computer?  I want to listen to the games but not have to
>> stay in my office to hear them.
>>
>> If there is such a thing, where do I get it?
>> Thanks
>> Lauren
>>
>> advice from my cats: "meow when you feel like it."
>> The most basic of all human needs is the need to understand and be
>> understood. The best way to understand people is to listen to them.
>> -- Ralph Nichols
>> Visit us at catliness.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 02:59:50 -0400
> From: Kenneth David Tuck <kennethtuck at samobile.net>
> To: electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] is there such a thing
> Message-ID: 437a40db-6b30-42eb-8a2e-546df811d598 at samobile.net
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
>
> Here is what you are looking for.
> http://www.amazon.com/FM2-Digital-Spectrum-Transmitter-Players/sim/B005GUQ0FI/2
> Original message:
>> Hi,
>> I am wondering if there is such a thing as a receiver that I could take
>> with me to other parts of my home to hear MLB's Game Day Audio as it is
>> broadcast from my computer?  I want to listen to the games but not have
>> to stay in my office to hear them.
>
>> If there is such a thing, where do I get it?
>> Thanks
>> Lauren
>
>> advice from my cats: "meow when you feel like it."
>> The most basic of all human needs is the need to understand and be
>> understood. The best way to understand people is to listen to them.
>> -- Ralph Nichols
>> Visit us at catliness.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/kennethtuck%40samobile.net
>
> --
> Kenneth David Tuck
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 04:21:45 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com, Discussion of accessible electronics and
> 	appliances	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] question about a Mack computer
> Message-ID:
> 	<alpine.BSF.2.01.1304110419260.67864 at freire1.furyyjbeyq.arg>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Apple also has pages which is a wordprocessor which can do word counts
> internally as well as numbers a spreadsheet program and if you don't
> want to spend money aqua emacs is for intel mac's.  I'll need to find
> out what flavor powerpc uses since I'll probably be getting one of these
> later this year.
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Becky Sabo wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I just purchase a Mack computer.  I love it a lot but I have some
>> questions
>> and I was wondering if you could help me or recommend where else to get
>> help
>> from'  Is there a list serve for Mack users?  Is there a program to use
>> like
>> word on the Mack?
>> What kind of apps are good.  Any help would be great.
>> Becky Sabo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gerald Levy
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 3:36 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>> As I stated previously, I have some real safety concerns over using the
>> IPhone as a GPS device.  How is it possible for a blind person to hold an
>> IPhone to his ear with one hand, use his other hand to swipe the
>> touchscreen
>> to activate variouls commands while simultaneously scanning with a white
>> cane?  At least dedicated GPS devices can be worn around the neck to
>> leave
>> both hands free.  And they have large, tactile buttons that are easy to
>> locate by touch with one hand , leaving the other hand free to navigate
>> with
>> a cane.  So even if the IPhone functions as an effective GPS Device, is
>> it
>> really safe to use for this purpose?  Navigating around a sparse,
>> suburban
>> or rural setting or a college campus with an IPhone might make sense, but
>> a
>> crowded, noisy urban environment?  I don't think so.  Just my two Apple
>> bites,for what they're worth.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>> > I've actually heard of doctor's starting to use iPhones to check
>> > people's
>> > blood pressure and pulse. There's really no reason a multipurpose device
>> >
>> > can't perform the function of a dedicated device just as well if not
>> > better than a dedicated device. As I've said before, it just depends on
>> >
>> > the technology included in the different devices.
>> >
>> > I'm not going to do the math to check your figures, and I don't know
>> > what
>> > dedicated GPS devices cost anyway, but if you're going to purchase an
>> > iPhone, because you want a smart phone for reasons that have nothing to
>> > do
>>
>> > with using the GPS, then the cost of the iPhone is a sunk cost and why
>> > wouldn't you use it's GPS feature? If you find it meets your needs then
>> >
>> > there's no reason to purchase a separate GPS device in addition to your
>> >
>> > smart phone.
>> >
>> > I'm not necessarily a big fan of multipurpose devices. I have a
>> > dedicated
>> > MP3/DAISY player for example. I've never been interested in getting a
>> > dedicated GPS device, but I do use the various GPS apps on my iPhone.
>> >
>> > Finally, no one needs to justify to me or anyone else on this list why
>> > they don't want to use an iPhone or it's GPS functionality. No one is
>> > forcing anyone to use an iPhone or it's GPS apps, and no one is keeping
>> >
>> > anyone from using a dedicated GPS device. I think this started with a
>> > question as to whether an iPhone would be more accurate in NYC than a
>> > BrailleNote running the Sendero GPS ap. I think that question has been
>> > asked and answered
>> > On 04/10/2013 03:34 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> If that is the case, then I challenge someone on this list to produce
>> >> a
>> >> podcast demonstrating the IPhone GPS app in an urban setting so that
>> >> the
>> >> rest of us can evaluate its performance for ourselves.  Sorry, but
>> >> until
>> >> I hear a real-world demo of the IPhone GPS app in action, I will
>> >> remain
>> >> unconvinced that it is superior to a dedicated GPS device.  Next,
>> >> someone will claim that the IPhone can monitor your blood pressure
>> >> more
>> >> effectively than a dedicated blood pressure monitor. There are just
>> >> limits to what a single device can do. Besides, at $200 for an IPhone,
>> >> plus a $1200 commitment over two years for an IPhone contract, it is
>> >> certainly moreexpensive over the long term than a dedicated GPS
>> >> device.
>> >>
>> >> Gerald
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Barbour" <jbar at barcore.com>
>> >> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> >> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:06 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I'm not sure why you say there is no way the iPhone can be a better
>> >>> locating device than the breeze, when several of us have told you
>> >>> how.
>> >>>
>> >>> The iPhone has better ways of figureing it where it is in places like
>> >>> Manhattan where there are lots of concrete structures around.
>> >>>
>> >>> GPS signals get confused in the city.  Cell tower and wifi signals
>> >>> much less so.
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope that helps,
>> >>>
>> >>> Jim
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:50:49PM -0400, Gerald Levy wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There is simply no way a one-device-does-it-all gadget like the
>> >>>> IPhone could
>> >>>> possibly be as reliable as a dedicated GPS device like the Trekker
>> >>>> Breeze. A
>> >>>> few years ago,someone (Lynn Tatum, I think) produced a podcast
>> >>>> demonstrating
>> >>>> the Trekker Breeze as she walked the streets of midtown Manhattan.
>> >>>> The unit
>> >>>> did not always announce the correct streets or building addresses, a
>> >>>> problem
>> >>>> attributable to the multitude of tall buildings in the area.
>> >>>> Besides,
>> >>>> walking around in a noisy urban environment with an IPhone glued to
>> >>>> your ear
>> >>>> while trying to listen for traffic and other important auditory
>> >>>> clues
>> >>>> is a
>> >>>> recipe for trouble.  Distracted walking for a blind person is just
>> >>>> as
>> >>>> dangerous as distracted driving is for a sighted person.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Gerald
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> >>>> <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> >>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> >>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:45 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >I haven't listened to this podcast, but I don't think your
>> >>>> > conclusion
>> >>>> >follows from this one data point. Was this using the Maps app from
>> >>>> >Apple?
>> >>>> >If so, it had some well reported map issues when it was first
>> >>>> >released.
>> >>>> >Was wifi enabled during this test? It's true that tall buildings
>> >>>> > will
>> >>>> >block satellite signals, but it isn't clear from what you say below
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> >this is why there were accuracy problems in Acron. Also, using cell
>> >>>> >tower
>> >>>> >and wifi hotspot triangulation will improve GPS accuracy, and I
>> >>>> > would
>> >>>> >expect New York City has quite a few cell towers and documented
>> >>>> > wifi
>> >>>> hot
>> >>>> >spots, so this accuracy could be improved quite a bit.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >On 04/10/2013 01:35 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>Not true at all.  Last year, Rick Harmon from Blind Geek Zone
>> >>>> produced >>a
>> >>>> >>podcast demonstrating the GPS app for the IPhone 4 in his home town
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>of
>> >>>> >>Akron, Ohio.  Needless to say, it was not very accurate and often
>> >>>> >>announced incorrect street names and landmarks, even though Akron
>> >>>> is >>not
>> >>>> >>a particularly dense urban area like midtown Manhattan.  So it
>> >>>> >> would
>> >>>> >>stand to reason that the GPS app for the IPhone would not work
>> >>>> >> well
>> >>>> in >>a
>> >>>> >>major city with a lot of tall buildings that could block the
>> >>>> >> direct
>> >>>> >>line
>> >>>> >>of sight to the orbiting GPS satellites.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>Gerald
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Chaltain"
>> >>>> >><chaltain at gmail.com>
>> >>>> >>To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> >>>> >><electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:56 AM
>> >>>> >>Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>>I'm not sure about the BrailleNote running Sendero, but
>> >>>> iPhone/Android
>> >>>> >>>running a GPS app will also use cell tower and wifi hotspot
>> >>>> >>>triangulation to improve location reliability. I would think this
>> >>>> >>>would help quite a bit in a large metropolitan area, but I can't
>> >>>> speak
>> >>>> >>>from experience.
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>On 04/10/2013 10:49 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> >>>> >>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>> >>>> >>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City,
>> >>>> >>>>probably
>> >>>> >>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2
>> >>>> >>>>blocks
>> >>>> >>>>away from where I know I am, and heading in a different
>> >>>> >>>> direction
>> >>>> >>>>than
>> >>>> >>>>I'm heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in
>> >>>> >>>> big
>> >>>> >>>>cities, or is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the
>> >>>> >>>> most
>> >>>> >>>>powerful system in the world?  Would, say, IPhone GPS be more
>> >>>> >>>>reliable
>> >>>> >>>>in the big city?
>> >>>> >>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north
>> >>>> >>>>Jersey,
>> >>>> >>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>> >>>> >>>>Thanks.
>> >>>> >>>>Tracy
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>> >>>> >>>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>> >>>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >>>> >>>> info
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> >>>>Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%4
>> 0gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>--
>> >>>> >>>Christopher (CJ)
>> >>>> >>>chaltain at Gmail
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>> >>>> >>>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>> >>>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>for
>> >>>> >>>Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>
>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited
>> %40verizon.net
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>>> >>Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>> >>Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>> >> for
>> >>>> >>Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40g
>> mail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >-- >Christopher (CJ)
>> >>>> >chaltain at Gmail
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >_______________________________________________
>> >>>> >Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>> >Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>> > for
>> >>>> >Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>
>> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%4
>> 0verizon.net
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
>> .com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
>> verizon.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> Electronics-talk:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gma
>> il.com
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Christopher (CJ)
>> > chaltain at Gmail
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Electronics-talk mailing list
>> > Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Electronics-talk:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40
>> verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40shellworld.net
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
> Microsoft, windows is accessible. why do blind people need screen readers?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 07:54:26 -0400
> From: "William T. Miller" <william_t_miller at hotmail.com>
> To: <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
> Message-ID: <BAY174-DS188D81E08A3A36BFA660ACD3C00 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Not sure if Fleksy has been mentioned in this thread yet, but I highly
> recommend the Fleksy App by Syntellia. Here is a description from the
> website at http://fleksy.com/:
>
> <snip>
> Fleksy is a revolutionary technology, which makes typing text on a
> touch-screen easy.
> Ever dreamt of an auto-correct system powerful enough to work even when you
> don't look at the screen? Enter, Fleksy.
>
> Used today by thousands of blind and visually impaired users to type faster
> and easier than many sighted people, Fleksy is set to revolutionize the way
> people think about mobile devices and to challenge the traditional barriers
> in touch-screen typing for everyone.
>
> Featuring Syntellia's patent pending technologies, Fleksy uses the familiar
> QWERTY layout, coupled with probably the most powerful text prediction
> engine out there.
>
> Tap typing, re-invented.
>
> How Fleksy works
> Fleksy allows users to type text on the familiar keyboard layout, by
> tapping
> on the screen. Our patent pending technology does not need accuracy - just
> tap on the screen and Fleksy will automatically detect the text you meant
> to
> enter - even if you have missed every single key.
> <end snip>
>
> The app works as advertised. I'm typing at least 3 times faster after one
> day using it. Enjoy!
>
> Will
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 09:17:47 -0700
> From: Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
> Message-ID: <20130407161747.GX4321 at barcore.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hey Folks,
>
> I apologize for my one word answer yesterday.  I should have been
> clearer that I too use the app store app on my iPhone to purchase
> apps.  These days, in fact, I never connect my phone to my computer at
> all.
>
> However, if I remember correctly, Ashley doesn't have an iDevice.  She
> wanted to go poking around in the app store before buying a phone.  In
> this case, downloading iTunes is really the best option for poking
> around in the App store.
>
> Take Care,
>
> Jim
>
> On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 06:49:29AM -0400, Annette Carr wrote:
>> I view iTunes as a necessary evil.  I deal with the app Store from my
>> iPhone.  I only deal with iTunes on the PC when I absolutely have to.
>>
>> Annette
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tom Lange
>> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 1:29 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>>
>> Hi,
>> The app store is very easy for me to use on the phone, so it's my
> preferred
>> way of buying apps. I see no reason whatsoever to use iTunes to buy apps
> for
>> my phone. Despite what others might say about how well they get along
>> with
>> iTunes, I think its interface is cumbersome and unwieldy at best,  a
>> monumental pain in the butt to use.  With the exception of rare occasions
>> when I add new music to my phone, I avoid it like the plague. My
> discussions
>> with people about iTunes almost always degenerate into obscenity-laden
>> rants, so I'd best get out of here before that happens.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 9:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>>
>>
>> > To be honest, I avoid using iTunes on the PC, and I find using the App
>> > Store on the iPhone to be a piece of cake. I guess I can't say which is
>> >
>> > best, but I'd be surprised if accessing the App Store on the PC with
>> > iTunes is easier or better than just using the App Store directly from
> the
>>
>> > iPhone.
>> >
>> > On 04/06/2013 08:20 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
>> >> Yes.
>> >>
>> >> Jim
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 4:35 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> is the best way to go through itunes to look at the ap store with a
> pc?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Chaltain
>> >>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 6:09 PM
>> >>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>> >>>
>> >>> I haven't done it myself, but yes you can access the App Store with
>> >>> iTunes from your PC. You can also purchase/download apps to your PC
> and
>> >>> then sync them with your iPhone using iTunes. Like I said, I haven't
>> >>> done this myself, and I can't speak to it's accessibility.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/01/2013 02:56 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>> >>>> true prices change.
>> >>>> can I access the ap store on a pc. I have itunes if that helps.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Chaltain
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 1:32 AM
>> >>>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Plus prices can change and apps can go on sale, so it's always good
> to
>> >>>> check the App Store itself for current price information.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 03/31/2013 11:56 PM, Jim Barbour wrote:
>> >>>>> Yes, but one can easily find out if an app is free by consulting
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> app store from your iPhone.  The app store will also give you an
>> >>>>> indication of what the app does and how the sighted public feels
> about
>> >>>>> it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The applevis site http://www.applevis.com/ may give you information
>> >>>>> about the app's voiceover friendliness, depending on if any
> voiceover
>> >>>>> users have reviewed the app there.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Jim
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 09:37:21PM -0700, Drew Hunthausen wrote:
>> >>>>>> I believe the info about an app being free or not helps to know if
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> it's
>> >>>>>> something even to look into.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: Electronics-talk
>> >>>>>> [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>
>> >>>>>> On
>> >>>>>> Behalf Of cheez
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:19 PM
>> >>>>>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but, I see a lot of questions
>> >>>>>> asking
>> >>>>>> if apps
>> >>>>>> are free or not.  Doesn't it tell you before you confirm the
>> >>>>>> download?
>> >>>>>> Vince
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> >>>>>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> >>>>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 7:54 PM
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Jude,
>> >>>>>>> What is the name of the free color ID ap?
>> >>>>>>> What does A1GPS do that navagan doesn't?
>> >>>>>>> Are both accessible? How much is navigan?
>> >>>>>>> Do they only let you make points of interest, or plan routes too?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: Jude DaShiell
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 10:18 PM
>> >>>>>>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Navigan isn't free, though a1gps is.  Maps get downloaded into
>> >>>>>>> g.p.s.
>> >>>>>>> apps like these and users can locate themselves on maps and add
>> >>>>>>> their
>> >>>>>>> own points of interest to them and then get navigation help to
>> >>>>>>> navigate
>> >>>>>>> from their current location to their selected points of interest.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If
>> >>>>>>> you find the right color id app, it came from England and is free
> or
>> >>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>> last time I downloaded it.  The camera gets used to scan objects
> for
>> >>>>>>> color identification and reporting.  Actually blio is a book
> reading
>> >>>>>>> app.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>>>>> Can you explain more?
>> >>>>>>>> What does navagan do? How does it differ from the other gps ap
>> >>>>>>>> called
>> >>>>>>>> ariad?
>> >>>>>>>> I thought blio was a book software for pcs.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Is the color ap called Color ID? Is that free?
>> >>>>>>>> What is digit eyes?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thanks.
>> >>>>>>>> Ashley
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jude DaShiell
>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:53 PM
>> >>>>>>>> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] aps for IOS device
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Yes to all, I have redlaser for bar code and qr code scanning
>> >>>>>>>> Navigan for
>> >>>>>>>> gps, blio for scanning and I will test digit-eyes for bar codes
>> >>>>>>>> though
>> >>>>>>>> that's a paid app.  I have color id on my phone for color
>> >>>>>>>> identification
>> >>>>>>>> and it can come up with some color announcements some people
>> >>>>>>>> find
> a
>> >>>>>>>> bit
>> >>>>>>>> too creative, but then again I'm not some people.  Good luck on
>> >>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>> Section 508 work, every so often I help the Navy out a little
> with
>> >>>>>>>> their
>> >>>>>>>> efforts along that line of work.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2013, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> For those of you using an I device, which free aps do you find
>> >>>>>>>>> helpful?
>> >>>>>>>>> Are there aps for scanning, bar code recognition, and color
>> >>>>>>>>> identification?
>> >>>>>>>>> How about GPS aps?
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I?m asking because I intern in a section 508 office and they
> want
>> >>>>>>>>> to do
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> an
>> >>>>>>>>> outreach session on accessible aps for disabled people. This
>> >>>>>>>>> includes
>> >>>>>>>>> blindness and two other disabilities.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley
>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>> >>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40she
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> llworld.net
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
>> >>>>>>>> Microsoft, windows is accessible. why do blind people need
>> >>>>>>>> screen
>> >>>>>>>> readers?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >>>>>>>> info
>
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> earthlink.net
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >>>>>>>> info
>
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40she
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> llworld.net
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
>> >>>>>>> Microsoft, windows is accessible. why do blind people need screen
>> >>>>>>> readers?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> earthlink.net
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/cheez%40cox.ne
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> t
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>> >>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/dhunthausen%40
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> gmail.com
>> >>>>>> -----
>> >>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>> >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >>>>>> Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5717 - Release Date:
>> >>>>>> 03/31/13
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>> >>>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
>> .com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>> >>>>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gma
>> il.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Christopher (CJ)
>> >>> chaltain at Gmail
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>>
>> >>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
>> earthlink.net
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>>
>> >>> Electronics-talk:
>> >>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
>> .com
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> >> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> Electronics-talk:
>> >>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gma
>> il.com
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Christopher (CJ)
>> > chaltain at Gmail
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Electronics-talk mailing list
>> > Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Electronics-talk:
>> >
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/lange85%40gmai
>> l.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/amcarr1%40veri
>> zon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore
> .com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Electronics-talk Digest, Vol 84, Issue 9
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 07:10:03 -0500
> From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen at independentliving.com>
> To: "'Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances'"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] is there such a thing
> Message-ID: <002c01ce36ad$7ff94dd0$7febe970$@independentliving.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> If you are using an iPhone, you can use the MLB AtBat app and also purchase
> from speeddots.com a BeatBox Bluetooth speaker to meet your request
>
>
> Stephen Guerra
> Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations
> independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES
> 200 Robbins Lane
> Jericho, New York 11753-2341
> Phone: 800.537.2118
> Direct: 516.450.3817
> Fax: 516.450.3842
> E-mail: stephen at independentliving.com
> Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog
> Web sites: www.independentliving.com
> www.soundbytes.com
> 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3
> Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Lauren Merryfield
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:29 AM
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> Subject: [Electronics-talk] is there such a thing
>
> Hi,
> I am wondering if there is such a thing as a receiver that I could take
> with
> me to other parts of my home to hear MLB's Game Day Audio as it is
> broadcast
> from my computer?  I want to listen to the games but not have to stay in my
> office to hear them.
>
> If there is such a thing, where do I get it?
> Thanks
> Lauren
>
> advice from my cats: "meow when you feel like it."
> The most basic of all human needs is the need to understand and be
> understood. The best way to understand people is to listen to them.
> -- Ralph Nichols
> Visit us at catliness.com
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Electronics-talk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/stephen%40inde
> pendentliving.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:16:28 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <6162EBA880F842C88AB0C73ED2F85377 at tracy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
> Occasionally, I have asked Sendero GPS to create a pedestrian route, hoping
>
> it would give me a non-highway way to get somewhere, and it has told me to
> walk on the highway.  NOT!
> Tracy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kaye" <kayezimpher at comcast.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>>I am from Atlanta, and while that is no Manhattan, I know many blind people
>>
>>who successfully use various gps apps on their Iphones. I have only heard
>>of one time that the gps advised a person to turn on to the highway, even
>>though the app was in pedestrian mode. That might not have ended well if he
>>
>>had not know where he was going.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Andrews
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:37 PM
>> To: Tracy Carcione ; Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>> I have used Street Talk on a Pac Mate, in the distant past, and in
>> Philadelphia, I had the same problems with tall buildings.\
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 10:49 AM 4/10/2013, you wrote:
>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a Braillenote
>>>
>>>PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably because of the
>>>
>>>many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks away from where I
>>>know I am, and heading in a different direction than I'm heading.  My
>>>question is, does this happen with all GPS in big cities, or is it because
>>>
>>>the GPS is running on a PK, not the most powerful system in the world?
>>>Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable in the big city?
>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north Jersey,
>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>Thanks.
>>>Tracy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/kayezimpher%40comcast.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 07:41:40 -0500
> From: Jenny Keller <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Electronics-talk] question about an app.
> Message-ID: <F18CA51B-EAA7-4232-81D0-370CAFAF1545 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all,
> I was looking for an app that I used to have on my I phone.
>
> I don't know how to spell it or whether it's one word or not, but it's
> called viz wiz.
>
> Could someone help me with this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jenny
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:51:32 -0400
> From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> To: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>,	"Discussion of accessible
> 	electronics and appliances"	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
> Message-ID: <2C981409E2A240CCB3D93CAE53F02C2F at glevy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=response
>
>
> The problem with all these GPS apps and devices is that they are designed to
>
> simply give you directions for the shortest route between two points, not
> necessarily the safest route.  If these devices were truly designed with
> blind pedestrians in mind, their primary route  suggestion, regardless of
> length, should include only streets with sidewals or walkways that are
> isolated from traffic.    If no such route is available, then they should
> alert you to this fact.  When you use Google Maps to get directions between
>
> two points, the walking directions include a warning, if appropriate, that
> some parts of the trip may involve walking on highways or other areas that
> might be hazardous.  GPS devices designed for the blind should do the same.
>
> After all, when you work with an O&M instructor, he will usually recommend
> the safest route between two points even if it means walking out of your way
>
> to get to your destination.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>
>
>> Occasionally, I have asked Sendero GPS to create a pedestrian route,
>> hoping it would give me a non-highway way to get somewhere, and it has
>> told me to walk on the highway.  NOT!
>> Tracy
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kaye" <kayezimpher at comcast.net>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 5:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>
>>
>>>I am from Atlanta, and while that is no Manhattan, I know many blind
>>>people who successfully use various gps apps on their Iphones. I have only
>>>
>>>heard of one time that the gps advised a person to turn on to the highway,
>>>
>>>even though the app was in pedestrian mode. That might not have ended well
>>>
>>>if he had not know where he was going.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Andrews
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:37 PM
>>> To: Tracy Carcione ; Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-talk] GPS in the Big City
>>>
>>> I have used Street Talk on a Pac Mate, in the distant past, and in
>>> Philadelphia, I had the same problems with tall buildings.\
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 10:49 AM 4/10/2013, you wrote:
>>>>I work in midtown Manhattan.  I have Sendero GPS, running on a
>>>>Braillenote PK.  I find it pretty unreliable in New York City, probably
>>>>because of the many tall buildings.  It frequently says I'm 2 blocks away
>>>>
>>>>from where I know I am, and heading in a different direction than I'm
>>>>heading.  My question is, does this happen with all GPS in big cities, or
>>>>
>>>>is it because the GPS is running on a PK, not the most powerful system in
>>>>
>>>>the world? Would, say, IPhone GPS be more reliable in the big city?
>>>>I am only interested in the big city aspect.  At home, in north Jersey,
>>>>the Sendero and PK work reasonably well.
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/kayezimpher%40comcast.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Electronics-talk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Electronics-talk mailing list
>> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Electronics-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org/bwaylimited%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:13:15 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "Discussion of accessible electronics and appliances"
> 	<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Electronics-talk] Fw: [nfbcs] Looking for Blind VoiceOver
> 	Users To	Test SideCar Ride Sharing App & Report Accessibility
> 	Experiences
> Message-ID: <061FBCCBFB23447DA63B59509CA25155 at tracy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mika Pyyhkala" <pyyhkala at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "nfbcs" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:54 PM
> Subject: [nfbcs] Looking for Blind VoiceOver Users To Test SideCar Ride
> Sharing App & Report Accessibility Experiences
>
>
>> Download the app here:
>> http://t.co/Sn1cpcQLyf
>> File Accessibility Reports by Email to:
>> e-hail at nfbma.org
>> Twitter: @pyyhkala @NFBMA @EHaila11y
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> The NFB of Massachusetts and Mika Pyyhkala are investigating the
>> accessibility of the SideCar ride sharing app to blind VoiceOver users
>> with Apple iOS devices.
>>
>> Here are some questions and answers about this project:
>>
>> Q: What is SideCar Ride?
>> A: SideCar Ride is one of several emerging E-Hail apps that allow you
>> to request a ride or ground transportation via a mobile phone or
>> device.  Other E-Hail apps you may have heard of include Uber, Hailo,
>> Lift, etc.  These apps allow you to track the arrival of your vehicle
>> with your smartphone, check the availability of nearby vehicles,
>> complete payment electronically, and receive accessible digital email
>> receipts.  E-Hail apps have many benefits to riders and drivers that
>> were previously not possible or available.
>>
>> Q: What citys is SideCar currently available in?
>> A: San Francisco, Seattle, Los Angeles, Austin, Philadelphia, Chicago,
>> Boston, Brooklyn, NY and Washington, D.C.
>>
>> Q: What are some of the more interesting features of the SideCar Ride
>> app and service?
>> A: SideCar advertises that users can see the number and location of as
>> well as the ETA of the nearest SideCar vehicle available to give rides
>> in your area based on your GPS position.  Once you request a ride, you
>> can track the vehicle as it approaches your pickup point.  Also,
>> SideCar Ride uses an innovative pricing model where you, the
>> passenger, specify a "donation," amount to pay the driver.  You may
>> elect to pay nothing, to pay less than the suggested donation amount,
>> to pay the exact suggested donation amount, or to pay more than the
>> suggested donation amount.  In other words, you as the rider, pick the
>> amount you elect to pay for any given ride.  The app also allows and
>> requires you to rate your driver to close out and complete a ride
>> transaction.
>>
>> Q: How can I find out more details about the SideCar Ride app and
>> service?
>> A: The SideCar Ride web site is located at
>> http://side.cr
>> The company is on Twitter @SideCar and also city specific Twitter
>> accounts are available such as @SideCarBOS @SideCarDC etc.  You can
>> also email questions to
>> support at side.cr
>> Feel free to ask the company both general and accessibility related
>> questions.  You may be able to find out more about SideCar by
>> searching on the internet or Youtube as well.
>>
>> Q: Are there any promotions or discounts that I can use to try SideCar
>> Ride?
>> A: An existing SideCar Ride user can refer you to the service, and
>> each party receives a $10 credit.  There are also various promotion
>> codes that you may be able to find on Twitter or on the internet.  If
>> you know someone who uses SideCar Ride, they may be able to help you
>> find discounts to try the service.
>>
>> Q: When I email e-hail at nfbma.org what kind of information should I
>> include?
>> A: Please include your full name, the city and state you tried
>> SideCar, and your experience using the app with VoiceOver.  You may,
>> for example, describe how the signup process worked with VoiceOver, or
>> how the process to request and complete a ride worked with VoiceOver.
>> If you get stuck in any part of the process, please report this.
>> Please also include a telephone number where we can contact you to get
>> further information.
>>
>> Q: What will happen with the information I submit about SideCar Ride
>> accessibility?
>> A: Mika Pyyhkala and the NFB of Massachusetts are researching the
>> accessibility of SideCar.  We will work to address any accessibility
>> issues that are found in the app or service.  We are looking for both
>> your experience in trying the service, and also for people who can
>> help with any accessibility issues found in various SideCar citys.  We
>> will give you indstructions and more information after you file your
>> initial accessibility report, and as we evaluate the accessibility of
>> SideCar.
>>
>> Q: Is similar accessibility research being done regarding other E-Hail
>> apps like Lift, Uber, Hailo, etc.?
>> A: Yes, and if you have a story about one of these apps please feel
>> free to send it to e-hail at nfbma.org
>> Right now, it is most important that we have blind VoiceOver users
>> test and evaluate the accessibility of SideCar.  In the coming weeks
>> and months, we may send out similar requests regarding other E-Hail
>> apps.
>>
>> Q: If I don't live in a current SideCar city, can I still participate?
>> A: Yes, you can still install and register for SideCar.  You can use
>> the service when you travel to a supported city, and the company is
>> actively expanding the citys serviced.  You can still provide
>> VoiceOver accessibility feedback on the signup process for SideCar,
>> and the overall interface of the app.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mika Pyyhkala,
>> Board Member
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> pyyhkala at gmail.com
>> Twitter: @pyyhkala
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbcs mailing list
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nfbcs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Electronics-talk mailing list
> Electronics-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/electronics-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Electronics-talk Digest, Vol 84, Issue 14
> ************************************************
>


-- 
Join me at:
www.out-of-sight.net
A free voice chat site for the blind
Quote, Catch the vision! Its Out of Sight!
Yes the iphone works better then the braille note's GPS.