[Electronics-Talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: b2g description

[Andrews, David B (DEED)]

Well yes, that is the "traditional" kind of display, but I think we may see some different kinds of devices on the market in the next few years.  Time will tell.

Dave



David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer
Department of Employment and Economic Development 
State Services for the Blind, 2200 University Ave. W., Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
Direct: 651-539-2294 | Mobile: 612-730-7931
Web | Twitter | Facebook




-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Baracco, Andrew W via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 10:01 AM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Baracco, Andrew W <Andrew.Baracco at va.gov>
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: b2g description

Perhaps the cells are somewhat less expensive, but this is made up for by the fact that Braille displays are a lot more these days than just an output device. Just about all of today's Braille displays allow for input as well as output, and some even offer basic note taking functions.

Andy


-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrews, David B (DEED) via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 7:43 AM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
Cc: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: b2g description

I think the cost of the cells themselves, today is in the $40 to $50 range.

At CSUN, Bristol Braille Technologies showed a prototype and they estimated that the cell cost would be about $3 per cell. However, it is a very different technology from the piezo-electric cells used today, and the refresh rate is quite slow. Their display is intended for use in reading Braille documents, not for real-time interaction with a computer, like with a "refreshable Braille display."

Dave



David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer Department of Employment and Economic Development State Services for the Blind, 2200 University Ave.
W., Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
Direct: 651-539-2294 | Mobile: 612-730-7931 Web | Twitter | Facebook



-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Baracco, Andrew W via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Baracco, Andrew W <Andrew.Baracco at va.gov>
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] [EXTERNAL] Re: b2g description

In the 1990s Dean Blazie said that refreshable Braille costs about $100 per cell, and this price point seems to be valid today. Perhaps actually more when you are talking about a note taker because of the computer functionality.

Andy


-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Aldrich via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2016 4:33 AM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
Cc: James Aldrich
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Electronics-Talk] b2g description

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for this good information!  I believe Dean Blazy has his hands in the design of this product!  I for one will never pay over $5000 for a notetaker ever again!  I have done this twice and have products which are obsolete and can't go online.  One shouldn't have to pay much over
$2500 for any braille product!  The jury is still out on the 300 to five hundred dollar braille display but I hope we see the end of the $5000 and more notetakers.  I'm writing these companies expressing this thought!  Imagine what might happen if everyone wrote this thought and avoided buying over $5000 notetakers!  I believe this year will bring about some refreshing changes for braille products!

Jim

Sent from my iPod

> On Apr 5, 2016, at 9:49 AM, Sharon Klug via Electronics-Talk
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello. My friend just got the b2g and it sort of looks like the old 
> braille lites but the keys or more erogonomic. The display is a little

> lower in the front. It has 20 cells. It is a little smaller than the 
> apex. The braille is very nice on it and easy to type on.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Sharon
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

> Behalf Of Lauren Merryfield via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 10:11 AM
> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
> Cc: Lauren Merryfield
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Android-based braille notetakers
> 
> Hi,
> What does the Braille To Go look like?
> Thanks,
> Lauren
> 
> Blessings in Jesus' name! John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He 
> is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of

> Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin. ... My digital evangelism
blog is at:
> w w w . ask in jesus name . org (remove the spaces). 
> Advice from my cats:"meow when you feel like it." 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

> Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:36 AM
> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jim McCarthy <jmccarthy at mdtap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Android-based braille notetakers
> 
> Tracy,
> The touch tablet has the Braille display at the bottom so if one 
> places it in the conventional way, the display will be closest to you,

> below the touch screen. It fits in a case and the keyboard is hinged 
> into the case and lays on top of the touch tablet when one wants to 
> use it. I can't recall if the keyboard can be removed from the case, 
> though the expectation, I think, is that if one does not need the 
> keyboard for braille, one would carry the touch pad in a neoprene
sleeve that comes with all of this at purchase.
> Jim McCarthy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 10:25 AM
> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Android-based braille notetakers
> 
> I have looked at the Humanware site for the Braillenote Touch, but 
> it's light on actual specs.
> Is it 3 pieces--braille display, touch tablet, and case?  It seems 
> rather confusing to me.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

> Behalf Of Jim Barbour via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 10:12 AM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: Jim Barbour
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Android-based braille notetakers
> 
> I am assuming that you two are talking about the Braille note touch, 
> I've not heard of the apex touch.
> 
> It definitely has a one line Braille display.
> 
> It also comes with a touchscreen tablet that you can Braille into much

> like the iPhone's braille input utility. It also comes with a case 
> that has traditional braille keys on it.
> 
> Another android-based note taker that was introduced is the low cost 
> Braille display that the NFB has been involved in.  It definitely has 
> drawbacks, but will cost under $500 which will be interesting to some.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Jim
> 
> Written While on the Move
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2016, at 6:51 AM, Brad Hodges via Electronics-Talk
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings:
>> 
>> I have had a brief audition of the Touch, and it includes a braille 
>> display. If it is a consideration, I'm sure if you contact humanware 
>> you can arrange an in-person audition. I don't know what plans the 
>> other manufacturers have for demonstrations.
>> 
>> My direct e-mail is brad.hodges at outlook.com, if you would like to 
>> communicate directly.
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4/5/2016 9:26 AM, Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>> Thanks Brad.
>>> I looked at the ad for the Humanware Touch, but it does not appear 
>>> to have a braille display, which for me is a deal-breaker.
>>> Looking at the FS ad, it appears that the ElBraille will not be 
>>> available until at least convention.  Since my current notetaker 
>>> died suddenly and I'm now using my good old slate for notes, I'm not

>>> sure I'm willing to wait that long.
>>> Your questions are certainly things worth thinking about.
>>> Both the NeoBraille and B2G say they can have cellular connectivity,

>>> but don't specifically say one could use them for phone calls.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Brad Hodges via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 9:02 AM
>>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>>> Cc: Brad Hodges
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Android-based braille notetakers
>>> 
>>> Tracy:
>>> 
>>> While I was not at CSUN, I have had an opportunity to follow the 
>>> arrival of Android-based notetakers. In addition to the 2 you 
>>> mention, the Apex Touch, from Humanware is also available. Of the 3,

>>> I would say that the Touch is the most available for immediate
purchase.
>>> 
>>> That having been said, in my opinion there are some very important 
>>> considerations created by the switch to the Android operating system

>>> for our notetaker technology. Your questions illuminate several of 
>>> these. I also believe there is more that we don't know yet which we 
>>> should know in order to evaluate Android as a notetaker operating
system.
>>> 
>>> Rather than relating my understanding of the 2 you mention, and 
>>> relate my very brief experience with the Touch, last week-end, I 
>>> would encourage you to formulate a comprehensive set of evaluation 
>>> criteria to use as you have the opportunity to audition each of the
>>> 3
> candidates.
>>> Additionally, don't discount Freedom Scientific's L-Braille, which 
>>> is based on Windows 10 and integrates one of the companies existing 
>>> braille displays with a module containing the processor.
>>> 
>>> I strongly suggest that those interested in a new notetaker hold off

>>> until the candidates have made their actual arrival and are ready 
>>> for
> purchase.
>>> 
>>> This question might also be something which we may want to address 
>>> at Convention. Perhaps a panel organized by one of our De visions.
>>> 
>>> Here are a few of the questions which come to my mind so far.
>>> 
>>> Since they are using an operating system which is intended to 
>>> support a mobile device does the notetaker include the ability to 
>>> use cellular
> data?
>>> Will it support phone calls? How important is this to you?
>>> 
>>> Which is more important, the availability of phone-like connectivity

>>> and other exclusive features provided by Android, or an updated 
>>> experience with a familiar menu structure and existing  set of
features?
>>> 
>>> We are accustom to a very fast and responsive interface on legacy 
>>> devices, is the notetaker equally as responsive?
>>> 
>>> How quickly can the notetaker be activated for immediate input, such

>>> as capturing a note or appointment? Is there both a sleep mode and 
>>> power down mode? If so what is the difference?
>>> 
>>> Is the interface logical and easy to follow?
>>> 
>>> Since this is an Android device, what is the relationship between 
>>> the interface and apps provided by the manufacturer and those apps 
>>> available through the Play Store?
>>> 
>>> Can Talkback, the Android screen reader be used? If so how does that

>>> experience contrast with built in menus etc?
>>> 
>>> How does the notetaker feel while in use? Is the form factor
convenient?
>>> Are keys convenient and responsive? If a touch screen is used how do

>>> your hands feel after an extended period of use?
>>> 
>>> How do the braille cells feel? Do they meet your expectations if you

>>> are experienced with notetaker or refreshable braille?
>>> 
>>>  How important is the ability of the notetaker to become part of 
>>> your personal echo system, allowing contacts, calendars, documents 
>>> and such to be shared across all your devices and phone? Does the 
>>> notetaker facilitate this if it is of importance?
>>> 
>>> At the time of product announcements, in mid-March, 3 different 
>>> versions of Android were used, 1 each on the 3 devices. What is the 
>>> significance, if any, of the version of Android used in the 
>>> notetaker
> when purchased?
>>> What is the impact of update availability, and who controls update
> releases?
>>> 
>>> Those are just a few quick thoughts which have been running around 
>>> in my mind. I hope that they may be of some use. It has been my 
>>> experience that careful planning and a consistent record of your 
>>> experience can help you make a choice with which you will be very
> pleased.
>>> 
>>> Brad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 4/5/2016 7:16 AM, Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>>> 2 new braille notetakers were announced at CSUN, the NeoBraille and

>>>> the Braille2Go.  Both are based on android phones.
>>>> 
>>>> Did anyone happen to go to CSUN and actually use one of these new 
>>>> notetakers?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm in the market for a new braille notetaker, and I'd like to know

>>>> what the interface for either of these is like.  Does one have to 
>>>> swipe around, or does one enter a command from the keyboard to 
>>>> bring up an app?  If I need to quickly scribble a note, does the 
>>>> device come on quickly, or do I have to mess around with unlocking 
>>>> it, then starting
>>> some app?
>>>> I know it's a long shot, but I'd love to hear from anyone who's 
>>>> actually had hands on one of these new devices.
>>>> 
>>>> Tracy
>>>>