[Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of appliances?

[Jude DaShiell]

The nfb at the right time may find it useful to link up with a.a.r.p. 
and join resources in litigation.  All of this equipment; washers, 
dryers, cooking appliances needs to be accessible for if no other 
reasons health maintenance.  For that reason it might be possible to get 
the F.D.A. involved here since medical apps on iPhone and android and 
windows devices have to work as advertised or have to be removed and I'd 
be real surprised if the F.D.A. hadn't included accessibility 
requirements in their testing of apps since that agency last I heard was 
part of the Federal Government and has interests in helping 
accessibility for the Federal community and its dependents.

On Sun, 30 Oct 2016, David Andrews via Electronics-Talk wrote:

> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 13:58:05
> From: David Andrews via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>     <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of
>     appliances?
> 
> Gerald, I think we can make something happen, it is just a matter of things 
> getting bad enough, that it moves up in people's and organization's 
> priorities.  I think we are getting near that time.
>
> I think it isn't the generic appliances per se, but the less expensive models 
> that get us accessibility.  I bought a name-brand stove, that, with labeling 
> I can operate, but their cheapest model. The name-brand manufacturers tend to 
> not make stuff at the bottom of the spectrum because the profit margin isn't 
> as great.
>
> One of the things that can help the NFB move towards action is people writing 
> resolutions and presenting them at national convention.
>
> Dave
>
> At 11:37 AM 10/30/2016, you wrote:
>
>> It is apparent that appliance manufacturers are unable or unwilling to make 
>> their products accessible to blind consumers, and so it may be time for 
>> government intervention to force them to do so.  Advocacy groups for the 
>> deaf were successful in getting the government to pass legislation that 
>> mandated that all TV sets be equipped with closed caption decoders.  Why 
>> don't we blind consumers have similar clout?  Ironically, I have discovered 
>> that products made by generic manufacturers are more likely to be blind 
>> accessible than those made by the traditional brand name manufacturers. 
>> For instance, low-end microwaves made by less well-known manufacturers are 
>> more likely to have mechanical controls or touchpads that can be labeled 
>> with tactile markers than higher-end models made by the more familiar brand 
>> names. And speaking of printers, I just purchased a monochrome laser 
>> printer from one of those generic manufactures, namely Pantum.  I haven't 
>> set it up yet, but based on my initial inspection, it should be usable by a 
>> blind computer user.  It has a rocker-style power switch on the rear panel 
>> and two buttons on the top: a wifi button and a continue/cancel button.  No 
>> LCD display to mess with, so it should be reasonably easy to use.  And for 
>> only $35, which is what it is currently selling for on Newegg.com, it is a 
>> great deal to boot.  So for anyone who needs a basic, monochrome laser 
>> printer with wifi capability, check out the Pantum P2502W.
>> 
>> Gerald
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Annette Carr via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:04 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Annette Carr
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of 
>> appliances?
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I believe that there are additional factors that are impacting the
>> identification of appliances that can be used by people who are blind.  Let
>> me see if I can explain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The lack of knowledge or the unwillingness of manufacture's customer 
>> service
>> phone representatives to understand what blind consumers are looking for. 
>> I
>> have been working with GE for 3 weeks to identify an over the range
>> microwave or microwave/convection oven, as well as a slide-in range.  I've
>> explained what I need, as well as explained why each model they have
>> identified is not accessible to someone who is blind.  After making no
>> progress with that representative beside having a plastic card with 45
>> 2-letter braille combinations mailed to me, they have upon my request
>> forwarded my case to someone else (maybe a supervisor).  I am now starting
>> over with explaining what I am looking for, and explaining why the models
>> being suggested by this second person is not accessible to someone who is
>> blind.   They continually provide me with products that the manufacturer 
>> has
>> labeled ADA Accessible, but they are not accessible to people who are 
>> blind.
>> If you read the manufacturer's definition of ADA Accessibility, you will 
>> see
>> that factors for non-visual access is not even mentioned.  In addition, 3
>> other manufacturer's (LG, Whirlpool & Kitchen Aid) customer representatives
>> have told me point blank that they do not have any products that do not use
>> the new technology of very sensitive control panels that do not require
>> pressure to operate, or a knob that only provides feedback on the digital
>> screen.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If the manufacturer does make even one model that can be accessed without
>> having to touch the overly sensitive panel in multiple spots to navigate to
>> the desired location, or not require reading a digital screen to know what
>> settings you are selecting, the customer representative are not able to 
>> help
>> the blind consumer identify these models.  Sales people in local stores do
>> not know anything more than what is written on the display sign for each
>> appliance.  So when you ask if the control panel requires pressure to
>> activate or whether the product produces an audible sound when the button 
>> is
>> activated/de-activated, they have no idea.  The inability to test a product
>> in a store just adds to our inability to identify a product that is
>> accessible or that could be adapted to meet our individual needs.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> When visiting the homes of friends and relatives who have replaced various
>> appliances within the past 3 years, we have found the appliance control
>> panels to be overly sensitive, require no pressure to activate, and overall
>> size of the panel to be too small to fit braille labels or other type of
>> markings within close proximity to the buttons.  Consideration of placing
>> the marks on the frame of the panel does not provide you with access to the
>> buttons that are in the center of the panel.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Some microwaves are using a single dial used to control multiple features
>> such as cooking mode, cooking time, cooking level, convection oven
>> temperature, and much more.  Some microwave models do use a knob that
>> provide a slight click, but does not have a defined start or end to the
>> rotation.  Other models provide no physical feedback when turning the knob.
>> The information being controlled by the knob is displayed on the digital
>> display, and no audible sound is able to be produced as the settings are
>> changed.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In addition, many models no longer produce an audible sound when a button 
>> is
>> activated or de-activated.  I found this unbelievable, so we have read
>> through a few manuals and have confirmed that it is indeed true.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your idea of visiting my local appliance stores equipped with an extension
>> cord is worth consideration.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think that it is time to stop letting manufacturers assume or dictate 
>> that
>> if a person is blind that they be:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> .         Limited to a stripped down model.  I believe that either all
>> appliances should be accessible to people who are blind, or at a minimum at
>> least 1 or 2 models be accessible within each model series or product 
>> level.
>> 
>> .         limited to the concept of accessibility requiring the consumer to
>> add braille labels or tactile marking to a product, or requiring the user 
>> to
>> memorize what a button is or the settings available with each press of that
>> button.  If it is reasonable for the average person to memorize what each
>> press of a button will do, then why do manufacturers provide displays or
>> indicator lights on their products.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In addition, the following should also be considered:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> .         If it is not reasonable for a manufacturer to train all of their
>> customer representatives, product distributors and sales people to
>> understand the needs of a consumer with a disability, then manufacturers
>> need to have a dedicated department (even if it is one person) who is
>> knowledgeable of the needs of people with disabilities and the features of
>> each product and how they can meet various user needs.  Information on how
>> to access information about accessibility of products needs to be easily
>> found.
>> 
>> .         Manufacturers need to provide more details in their product specs
>> that can help a consumer with a disability identify which features/aspects
>> of an appliance they can or cannot access given their specific needs.
>> 
>> .         While access to large home appliances is crucial to the daily
>> independence of people with disabilities, access to other products such as
>> exercise equipment and their mobile device apps, as well as entertainment
>> and office equipment needs to be considered.  Have you tried to find a
>> dedicated printer or Multi-Function Printer lately?  A person who is blind
>> or those who have any type of disability should not have to spend days and
>> weeks trying to find a product that they need or want.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I hope my rambling is helpful.
>> 
>> Annette
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brad Hodges via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 9:52 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Brad Hodges
>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] Does where we shop impact accessibility of
>> appliances?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Colleagues:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As some of you long-time Federationists may recall, a number of years ago I
>> had the privilege of working at our National Center. One of the areas of
>> research and advocacy I undertook was to begin the exploration of the state
>> of appliance accessibility. I also was pleased to have had several articles
>> published in the Braille Monitor. Entitled "Crisis For The Blind at the Big
>> Box Store" they summarized our understanding of the issues and technology 
>> of
>> the time.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Fast forward more than a decade and I find myself prowling the isles of big
>> box stores and other appliance departments once again. This time as a 
>> member
>> who has an abiding interest in this topic. I intend to collaborate with the
>> Technology Team at the Jernigan Institute, to once again publish a
>> comprehensive survey of the appliance accessibility landscape.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To make a very long story short, most of what we observed in the early
>> 2000's still applies. So, what has changed? Why are things considerably 
>> more
>> difficult now than they were in 2004? Is it time to establish standards for
>> accessibility? Is government intervention necessary? Have our expectations
>> for accessibility changed?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In posing these questions I'm hoping to expand our scope of exploration and
>> to consider additional forces and factors which contribute to the 
>> bedeviling
>> time we all have in finding a microwave oven or washing machine which we 
>> can
>> use.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, I'm getting to the topic you expected after reading the message 
>> header.
>> Yesterday I was shopping at my local JCPenney store. Low and behold, what
>> did I find on the second floor but a very well merchandised display of 
>> major
>> appliances from LG, Samsung and GE. Of particular interest was how
>> unfamiliar many of the models were. I have been tracking availability at
>> Lowes, Home Depot and Sears for many years. It struck me, as I explored a 
>> GE
>> front loading laundry pare, which look quite usable that something which a
>> mgr at Home Depot shared. The floor space for appliance display in the big
>> box store is rented by each manufacturer. Thus the choice of which models
>> are available for public preview is controlled exclusively by those
>> manufacturers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do you suppose that one of the issues which contributes to the state of
>> affairs is a re tale experience which only includes a sampling of less
>> accessible or manageable products? Since I believe it to be the case that
>> relatively few models in any manufacturers lines is really usable, the
>> chances of those models not showing up in the display space is perhaps 
>> quite
>> high.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In addition to the GE laundry machines, I found an LG electric range with
>> beautiful burner turn knobs on the front, and a back panel which would
>> appear to lend itself very nicely to tactile markings. Several
>> over-the-range microwaves looked promising, again to be used with tactile
>> indicators. A Samsung dishwasher with 5 easy to feel buttons also 
>> intrigued.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'll return to JCPenney, this time with a camera, an extension cord, and my
>> husband to lend a hand and a pare of eyes.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hope I haven't run to long here, but there was a qualitative aspect of
>> 
>> the overall experience which I found encouraging. I also trust that as
>> 
>> we progress in collecting our findings and thoughts for a new Monitor
>> 
>> article that the collective experience of this group will help inform
>> 
>> the conversation.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Brad Hodges
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Huntington WV
>> 
>> 
>
>
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