[Electronics-Talk] A New Totally-Featured Push-Button Phone is Definitely needed
Santiago Velasquez
zanty410 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 02:43:09 UTC 2023
Hi to you all,
I hope this message finds you all well. I have been reading the various threads regarding feature phones with buttons and I just want to throw my two cents into this conversation. Before I do though, for some context, I am a blind electrical engineer based in Australia, and I do not work for a company that manufactures phones. However, I have been working in the industry for the past six years. Furthermore, the following will be just an opinion, but it is not to negate the feelings that people have towards, or against feature phones. I hope this is helpful to those who are hoping that a new feature phone is developed, or one of the existing ones is made to be more accessible.
Ignoring the various online trends regarding feature phones, Rotary phones and technology that is deemed to be obsolete, I am just going to jump into the economics and technical aspects of why it is rather difficult and probably not likely that a new feature phone with buttons will be developed.
As I am sure that a lot of you are aware, for the development of anything, regardless of whether it is an electronic device, or not, three things must exist:
1. Funding.
2. Customer demand.
3. Purchasing power.
These things are just the minimum, but if they do not exist, nothing else matters.
Assuming that an initial source of funding exists, that source of funding will not be limitless. So, at some point the original investment will run out. From here on out, it is expected for the company to become self-sufficient for it to be able to continue. This does not even take into account the fact that most investor groups expect to have a return on their investment at some point. And it is here where we hit our first major roadblock.
Unfortunately, due to various factors, the vision impaired community around the world does not have the same purchasing power as sighted users. That's not an excuse, but it is unfortunately a fact at the moment. With this in mind, we can look at the unemployment rate of people who have a disability in developed and developing nations, and unfortunately it is rather high. We couple this with the astronomical cost of developing a phone in our pool of buyers decreases exponentially. Adding to this, how many people who are vision impaired and have the ability to purchase, or the support to buy a phone that costs more than US$1000 would choose a feature phone? With these things in mind regarding the economics, I'm now going to move on to the technical stuff. We can write an essay just on the economic side of things alone.
If you do not work in the industry, it is totally okay to assume that developing a phone is rather easy. The software isn't easy, but it isn't terribly difficult. You can develop software using laptops and a dedicated team of developers. However, even this is not sufficient. Apple will not release their operating system, so we are left with android. Adding to the licensing fees that a hypothetical company would have to pay to Google to be able to just tweak the operating system to properly work with buttons, ongoing support for everything will be needed if the phone is to work with most apps. This all requires time for testing, good developers who understand accessibility guidelines and funds to attract good talent. Which as discussed previously, it is not as easy to come by given the small buyer pool for our feature phone. The company could develop its own operating system, but then no apps would be available to the phone: unless big companies decide to develop for it. This does not take into account the astronomical cost of just developing an operating system alone.. even then, there is no guarantee that big companies will support the apps for as long as they do their current android and iOS apps. Last, before I go down a software Rabbit hole, none of the current android apps have been properly designed to work using buttons, so any updates, regardless of how small they are, will require developers to continuously write software patches to make sure the feature phone is as accessible as it can be given its limitations.
Now we get to hardware, the most expensive thing and the biggest fear for most investors. For some context, when you manufacture anything, companies such as Samsung display, TSMC, Sony cameras, Panasonic batteries, etc, they don't just sell you one thing, they have a minimum number of units that you must purchase before they will do any business with you. And, if whatever it is that you are purchasing is not within their standard portfolio, do you want to invest funds for its development. Regardless of whether you do it in house, or whether you contract it out to another company. As a company, you could license a current feature phone design, but even basic modifications to it regardless of whether they are software, or hardware would cost more than $1 million. None of this takes into account the fact that there are some companies that will not negotiate with you even if you have the money, and are able to purchase 10,000, 100,000, or 1 million modems from them simply because you are a new player. Last, while software is relatively easy to test since it can all be done using cloud computing and local computers, hardware is totally different. It is virtually impossible to manufacture and test physical hardware in one location. Even companies like Apple that have billions of dollars cannot and do not do this. And, unfortunately, you don't get it right on the first time with software, or with hardware. So, if you fail with software, that's more money that you will need to spend on developers. If you fail with hardware, that's time wasted on shipment and money that needs to be spent for manufacturing costs. Plus, once you merge software and hardware together, you don't get it right the first time. So, the whole cycle begins again. All of this happens before you even get and can guarantee one single buyer for your product.
A few last questions to keep in mind:
1. How much money do you have for certification's that are required in order for you to be able to sell your device?
2. What type of support do you want to give your customers, and you are able to afford with your business model?
3. In which markets around the world would you like your product to be available, and what would you need to do for that to be the case?
4. Funding for marketing, how much are you able to invest from your revenue if you have any?
There are many more aspects to manufacturing a feature phone and why it is so difficult, but I thought I would add my two cents to this conversation. As mentioned to the beginning, I'm not negating the feelings that people have towards, or against smart phones, or negating the desire for a new feature phone, but I just wanted to share the difficulties faced by individuals, investors and manufacturers in producing any new products for such a limited audience. If the technology developed for people who have a vision impairment, or other disabilities can be utilised for the general public, we would see more products being developed that can assist us all.
If anybody has any thoughts, or questions, please feel free to continue this great discussion.
Regards
Santi
> On 17 Jan 2023, at 11:34 am, cheez via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I heard on the radio today, that flip phones are the craze amongst the younger generation.
>
> There are Tick-tock videos showing their anticipation and elation as they open the boxes.
>
> Don't know what that means. Maybe it's just history repeating itself. Or, a marketing scheme.
>
> Vince
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Aaron Spears via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2023 3:41 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Aaron Spears <valiant8086 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] A New Totally-Featured Push-Button Phone is Definitely needed
>
> Hi.
>
>
> The last button phone I know about for the time being that is mainstream is the Unihertz Titan Pocket. However it has some issues that need addressing before you give one to a newbie user. For starters, its power management is too aggressive and it kills Talkback. It's fixable, but the beginner with no patience will not put up with that.
>
>
>
> Cheers:
> Aaron Spears, AKA Valiant8086 General Partner at Valiant Galaxy Associates "we make (VERY GOOD AUDIOGAMES) for the blind comunity" http://valiantGalaxy.com
>
> On 1/15/2023 1:47 PM, Amanda Lee via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>> My 89 year old Mom is the same way. Also, I have never been impressed
>> with the call quality fromcertain phones so I still have both.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf
>> Of Arlene via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2023 7:15 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Arlene <arlenes71154 at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] A New Totally-Featured Push-Button
>> Phone is Definitely needed
>>
>> My brother and my brother-in-law, both totally sighted prefer a
>> feature or flip phone, and texting isn't for them. What's best for
>> anyone, such as a type of phone is wjat they feel more confortable with.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Chaltain via Electronics-Talk"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances"
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Christopher Chaltain" <chaltain at outlook.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 6:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] A New Totally-Featured Push-Button
>> Phone is Definitely needed
>>
>>
>> Are feature phones still available for sighted cell phone users? If so
>> then they should also be available for blind users. Blind people
>> shouldn't be forced to use a smart phone if sighted people aren't also
>> being forced to do so. In other words, the same reason a sighted
>> person would prefer a feature phone would also apply to a blind
>> person. I have a smart phone myself, and I wouldn't consider switching
>> to a feature phone, but I'm not every blind person.
>>
>> --
>> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
>> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf
>> Of Peter via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 2:49 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Peter <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] A New Totally-Featured Push-Button Phone
>> is Definitely needed
>>
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>> I don't mean to belabor the point but the points made below are a
>> clear reason why a fully-featured push-button smartphone is needed
>> instead of the sorry dumb phones that have come out recently which do
>> not allow one to use services like Lyft and Uber forcing customers
>> capable of using these services with a push-button phone to use of
>> third party services like Gogo Grandparent making the use of rideshare
>> services less costly. This is just one of many examples I can think of
>> why a fully-featured push-button smartphone is needed. I smell a
>> resolution in the works for consideration at this year's NFB Convention.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf
>> Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 5:57 AM
>> To: cheez via Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Gerald Levy <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] That New Phone
>>
>>
>> GoGo Grandparent allows you to book Uber rides with any telephone,
>> even a land line phone, once you register with them.
>>
>> They charge the regular Uber fare, plus an additional charge of 27
>> cents per
>>
>> minute for their service. So a one hour Uber trip would cost the
>> regular Uber fare, plus about an additional $16for the Gogo Grandparent service.
>> This could become very, very expensive if you make a lot of trips with Uber.
>>
>> But the dirty little secret about Uber and Lift that nobody likes to
>> talk about is that they can leave you stranded with no way to get
>> home. Suppose you book a Uber trip to go to a doctor's appointment.
>> When the appointment
>>
>> is finished, you call for a return trip to go home, but you are told,
>> sorry,
>>
>> we don't have any vehicles available to pick you up? Then what? Gogo
>> Grandparent tells you to have a "Plan B" for such a contingency. Seriously?
>>
>> What are you supposed to do? Walk all the way home? Caveat emptor.
>> For anyone who has used GoGo, please share your experiences.
>>
>>
>> GoGo Grandparent:
>>
>>
>> 855-GOGO-USA
>>
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/2023 6:34 AM, cheez via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>> I wonder if that 800-number gives you the lowest price for an Uber.
>>> I've never tried the 800-number. I have the app and it shows at
>>> least
>>> 4 options.
>>>
>>> Vince
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk<electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On
>>> Behalf Of Darla J. Rogers via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 5:57 PM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc:djrogers0628 at gmail.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] That New Phone
>>>
>>> Oh; no I'm not. I live near Kansas City, MO.
>>>
>>> Because of hand difficulties and lack of sensitivity in my hands plus
>>> tremors, this phone might be a real solution for me.
>>>
>>> Darla
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk<electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On
>>> Behalf Of Donald Moore via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 6:30 PM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc:don.moore48 at reagan.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] That New Phone
>>>
>>> I don't know if you're still in Florida, but they have an 800 number
>>> that blind people without the app can call.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk<electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On
>>> Behalf Of Darla J. Rogers via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 5:18 PM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc:djrogers0628 at gmail.com
>>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] That New Phone
>>>
>>> I think it is called the Blind Shell Classic; while it seems to be
>>> able to do some things, can anyone look into their crystal ball to
>>> see if they can or will add programs like Uber?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darla
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> A
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>>> A
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>>> a
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>>> I
>>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
>>> 7
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