[Faith-talk] Scripture Regarding Predestination

[Antonio Guimaraes]

Hi Everett,

Thank you for taking the time to share this answer with me.

I come to understand the answer much better, though not yet fully. That will 
come with reading the chapters recommended, and reading the pastor's message 
carefully.

Sincerely,

Antonio Guimaraes

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Everett Gavel" <everettg at successfuladaptations.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Scripture Regarding Predestination


> Hello Antonio, and all,
>
> My pastor can share the scripture and some specifics on Predestination 
> much more clearly than I am able to right now.  So I asked him to help me 
> respond to your questions and statements on this topic, Antonio.  His 
> reply is below.  I hope it can help anyone reading this, with any 
> questions you may have on this Biblical topic. All I ask of each of you 
> who read it, and who may be Christ-followers, is to please pray first. 
> Ask God to lead you with His wisdom and His discernment on this topic.
>
>
> God Bless Your Efforts--and Your Path,
> Everett
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> Antonio,
>
> I would encourage you to read John 6 (whole chapter), Romans 9 (whole 
> chapter), and Ephesians 1 (whole chapter).  We are not just taking out a 
> few verses, but we are putting them in the context in which we find them, 
> which, in the case for predestination (election), it is explain in whole 
> chapters.  I would start there.
>
> Secondly, you said, "Then, what is it worth the effort, if said effort may 
> be fruitless?"  On this their are two important things: 1)  Your effort 
> will never get you into heaven unless you are completely perfect!  You are 
> not, and neither am I, and only Jesus is!  This is works based 
> righteousness, and it is a sin (Eph. 2:8-10; Isa.64:6).  In works based 
> righteousness, rather than gift righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21, correct view), 
> the question becomes, 'How good is good enough for God to love me?'  This 
> is the wrong question to be asking.  How good is good enough to satisfy a 
> holy angry God?  Answer: Perfection!  And unless you are perfect, you need 
> grace, and that my friend is where the doctrine of predestination is such 
> a beautiful thing.  Grace (gift righteousness) says, "God loves me, 
> therefore I can become good."  Not, "If I become good by trying really 
> hard, God will love me."  2) Predestination does not work like you think. 
> Again, going back to your quote, all your effort is useless, and it does 
> not benefit a perfect God, but it is not in vain.  Listen carefully.  If 
> you love Jesus, then you are predestined as one of his children.  If you 
> ask the question, "Well, what if I love him and he doesn't love me," then 
> you are of the elect.  God would never keep anyone from salvation that 
> desired it!  But, the desire was not yours, it was by God's divine grace 
> that you do desire him.  That is what makes election so beautiful! You 
> don't deserve it, but he gives it to you, not because of you or anything 
> you've done, but because of his amazing grace!  When properly understood, 
> this will drop you to your face in humility, because you understand for 
> the first time that God doesn't love you for the things you do, but that 
> he loves you despite the things you do--which, in turn, will make you stop 
> doing the stupid things you do.  Understand?
>
> I have believed how you do, my friend, and I know the lonely and endless 
> road of sin you are on, just trying to maintain your salvation until the 
> end.  If you love Jesus, no one can pluck you from his hand, not even you 
> (Jn. 10:28).
>
> Third and finally, God does love the world, but that passage is speaking 
> of those who are elect from the world, just has people from every nation, 
> tongue, and tribe will be saved (Rev. 5).  Remember, if you want to be 
> saved, you are elect; if you do not want to, you are not elect.  Simple.
>
> If you have any questions either email Everett or myself at: 
> jeremy at themovementchurch.info
>
>
> In His Grip,
>
> Pastor Jeremy
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> Hi,
>
> So, acording to the doctrine of predestination, God has
> already decided who
> will follow him? I may or may not be destined to ascend
> to heaven? Then,
> what is it worth the effort, if said effort may be
> fruitless?
>
> I always believed, and learned that God died for ALL
> people, and that Jesus
> suffered and died for all sins, notjust some selected
> group.
>
> this doctrin is either misinterpreted, or it is wrong.
>
> God knows all things, so he knows all of my choices,
> past, present, and
> future. He knows how many times I'll attend church
> durring my lifetime, and
> more importantly, he knows whether I will choose a
> christ-centered life that
> will leed to salvation. But he didn't choose to save
> me, he gave me the
> choice. He just happens to know what my choice will
> ultimately be. Isn't
> this how it goes?
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
>
>
>
>
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