[Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.

Mon Nov 10 12:48:03 UTC 2008

That's weird.  I know that St. Paul preaches against group sex and
other kinds of weird forms of sex acts, but Jesus not hanging out with
or healing homosexuals is just odd.  If homosexuality is seen as a sin
in the Bible, why isn't it clearly stated that it can be healed?  Both
Protestants and Conservative Catholics feel this way, but I don't
think that the homosexual attractions my friends experiece can be
healed.
Beth

On 11/10/08, Alan Wheeler <awheeler at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Yes, and that by grace we are saved.  God's grace is truly amazing, isn't
> it?
>
>
> +-+-+-
>
>    There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is
> there any rock like our God.
>  1 Samuel 2:2
> ~~~
>
> Alan D Wheeler
> awheeler at neb.rr.com
> IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
> Skype: redwheel1
> Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at
> www.theqonline.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Corey Cook" <ccook01 at knology.net>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.
>
>
>> The great part is Paul says that that was what we were before we were
>> forgiven.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "BMW" <lynnwhite51 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.
>>
>>
>>> well, Beth, your view goes against the old and new Testament.  Nobody is
>>> being a bigot or anything like that.
>>>
>>> What do you do with the verses that speak against adultery, drunkardness,
>>>
>>> slanderers, fornicators?  Paul says that all of have fit into one of
>>> these
>>> categories before we were forgiven.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 2:53 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Allan, this article is severely biased and is hurtful to homosexual
>>>> friends of mine.  Thank God they didn't read this.  To be honest, I
>>>> love my friends, all my friends heterosexual and homosexual.  Every
>>>> kid has the right to two loving parents, but not necessarily a mom and
>>>> a dad.  Gay couples and lesbian couples are still adoptable couples.
>>>> I've seen a lesbian couple that adopted two Cree First Nations
>>>> children.  I saw a gay couple adopt special needs twins who had
>>>> addiction problems.  This country needs to be more progressive and
>>>> stop attacking homosexuals because they are homosexuals.  Before you
>>>> know it, Allan, this country will put blind and visually impaired
>>>> people as well as cognitively disabled people in their places: along
>>>> with the homosexuals, below sighted and heterosexual people.  Before
>>>> you know it, Allan, African Americans will be kicked out of office and
>>>> there will be an assassination attempt on Barack Obama, who I hope
>>>> will reign for eight long and healthy years.  Please watch what you're
>>>> saying!  We're all Christians on this list!  Can't we accept others'
>>>> beliefs and opinions here?  I'm not trying to be psychic and prophetic
>>>> here, but please understand that I am very concerned that this nation
>>>> is going to fall down like Rome did and we won't have a very healthy
>>>> end if you know what I mean.  And not everybody believes in God.  And
>>>> God loves everybody, and even though it is written that homosexuality
>>>> is a sin, attacking homosexuals who are not atracted and refuse to be
>>>> attracted to the opposite sex is wrong.  We cannot an will not attack
>>>> others because they are a different brand of homo sapiens sapiens.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> On 11/9/08, Alan Wheeler <awheeler at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>> I went to www.biblegateway.com to see what I could find about
>>>>> homosexuality
>>>>> and the bible.  This was among the resources.  So, again I say, and
>>>>> this
>>>>> is
>>>>> my last comment on the subject, if you disagree that marriage is only
>>>>> for
>>>>> men and women, then your argument is with God.  It's in His book.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/gay-rights#marriage
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sanctity of Marriage
>>>>> In recent years, the homosexual movement has centered on giving
>>>>> marriage-like benefits to gay couples. Many in the culture have
>>>>> mistakenly
>>>>> concluded that marriage is merely an institution for the convenience of
>>>>> adults. In actuality, marriage is the bedrock institution for culture
>>>>> to
>>>>> sustain itself through having and nurturing children. There are
>>>>> complementary aspects to a man and woman that are important to the
>>>>> instutution of marriage which go beyond the obvious physical
>>>>> attributes.
>>>>> There are things that a man needs that can only be provided by a woman,
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> vice versa.
>>>>>
>>>>> These complementary aspects are important to the relationship of the
>>>>> couple
>>>>> itself, as well as to the children. One does not have to appeal to
>>>>> religion
>>>>> to instinctively understand this. Yet statistics verify the structure
>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> traditional family as the approach to raising children that gives the
>>>>> best
>>>>> measurable results. The overwhelming body of social science research
>>>>> agrees
>>>>> that children do best when raised in homes with married, opposite-sex
>>>>> parents. Every child has the right to both a mom and a dad.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet we cannot divorce the institution of marriage from its theological
>>>>> roots. We acknowledge that marriage is an institution given by God
>>>>> (Genesis
>>>>> 2:24). The Creator of the Universe established the relationship between
>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> man and a woman, thus it is a divine institution, not a human one. To
>>>>> confer
>>>>> marriage-like rights to gays is not the prerogative of people (Matthew
>>>>> 19:6). (This includes civil unions or domestic partnerships, as they
>>>>> are
>>>>> merely marriage by other names.) Defining marriage is the prerogative
>>>>> of
>>>>> God. Whatever may tend to undermine the institution of marriage would
>>>>> also
>>>>> undermine the authority of God, as well as hurt society.
>>>>>
>>>>> Liberals may argue, "Why should we arbitrarily select only heterosexual
>>>>> couples for marriage? What can it hurt if two homosexuals want to
>>>>> marry?"
>>>>> The answer is surprisingly simple. The institution of marriage between
>>>>> and
>>>>> man a woman is not, in fact, arbitrary. It's purpose is clear and of
>>>>> utmost
>>>>> importance to society.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Orland in an article entitled "The Deceit of Gay Marriage" puts
>>>>> it
>>>>> very well. He says:
>>>>>
>>>>>   To justify giving privileges or exemptions or subsidies to some
>>>>> particular
>>>>> group in society, the benefit of doing so for society at large must
>>>>> first be
>>>>> shown. With heterosexual marriage, the case is clear enough.
>>>>> Heterosexual
>>>>> marriage is a matter of genuine social interest because the family is
>>>>> essential to society's reproduction. The crux of my argument, in other
>>>>> words, was that married couples receive the benefits they do, not
>>>>> because
>>>>> the state is interested in promoting romantic love, or because the
>>>>> Bible
>>>>> says so or because of the influence of special interest groups but
>>>>> rather
>>>>> because the next generation is something that is and should be of
>>>>> interest
>>>>> to all of us. And, by definition, this is not a case that can be made
>>>>> for
>>>>> homosexual unions. To that degree, the attempt to turn the question of
>>>>> domestic partnership into a debate about fairness falls flat.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The more persistent supporters of domestic partnership will of course
>>>>> respond to this argument by pointing to the case in which homosexual
>>>>> partners adopt children or, in the case of lesbians, undergo artificial
>>>>> insemination. The intention here is to show that the nuclear family is
>>>>> found
>>>>> even among homosexual couples and that, to that extent, homosexual
>>>>> unions do
>>>>> indeed meet the same criterion of social interest as heterosexual ones
>>>>> and
>>>>> thus should be granted legal status. It is a weak argument and one that
>>>>> ultimately back-fires on those who employ it. This is for two reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>>   First, adoption by homosexual couples is still exceedingly rare and
>>>>> the
>>>>> law-though many are surprised to learn this-is aimed at the general
>>>>> case. To
>>>>> confer legal benefits on the entire class of would-be homosexual
>>>>> spouses
>>>>> just because some very small minority of this class approximates the
>>>>> pattern
>>>>> of the nuclear family would be a bit like admitting all applicants to a
>>>>> select university on the grounds that a few of them had been shown to
>>>>> meet
>>>>> the entrance requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Second, the right of this small minority to the benefits of marriage
>>>>> is
>>>>> dubious in the extreme. Homosexual "families" of whatever type are
>>>>> always
>>>>> and necessarily parasitic on heterosexual ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Every child has the right to a mom and a dad. See 5 Reasons Why
>>>>> Same-Sex
>>>>> Marriage Harms Children.
>>>>>
>>>>> But homosexuals not only want fair treatment, they are pushing for
>>>>> "Super
>>>>> Rights." According the Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute:
>>>>>
>>>>>   "Every member of society has a duty to contribute to the
>>>>> commonwealth.
>>>>> Yet
>>>>> the empirical evidence indicates that those who engage in homosexuality
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)
>>>>> contribute less and cost more in goods and services, 2)
>>>>> disproportionately
>>>>> disrupt social functioning, and 3) have few children while being more
>>>>> apt to
>>>>> harm them. Thus, homosexual practioners not only fail to 'pay for their
>>>>> keep,' but by their negative influence on children, cloud society's
>>>>> future.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Those who engage in homosexuality seek what they say are 'gay
>>>>> rights."
>>>>> In
>>>>> reality, they are demanding Super Rights. Super Rights are those
>>>>> privileges
>>>>> that allow one to ovverride the inalienable rights of other citizens,
>>>>> such
>>>>> as freedom of speech and association. These Super Rights-which are
>>>>> conferred
>>>>> by 'non-discrimination,' 'hate crime,' and 'hate speech' laws-allow
>>>>> homosexuals, if they so choose, to endanger or punish those who would
>>>>> exercise their associational rights to avoid them or protect their
>>>>> children
>>>>> from them.
>>>>>
>>>>>   As an example, empirical studies to date indicate that a male teacher
>>>>>
>>>>> who
>>>>> practices homosexuality is the most likely kind of teacher to sexually
>>>>> molest students. A principal knowing this may not want to hire a
>>>>> teacher
>>>>> who
>>>>> declares his homosexual interests. But if that teacher wants the job,
>>>>> his
>>>>> Super Rights trump the associational rights of the principal as well as
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> right of students not to experience extra risk (especially since safety
>>>>>
>>>>> is
>>>>> part of their right to life). Parents renting out one side of their
>>>>> duplex
>>>>> may not want to place their children at risk by renting to a gay
>>>>> couple.
>>>>> But
>>>>> if-even on a whim - the homosexuals want the duplex, their Super Rights
>>>>> trump the property and associational rights of the parents as well as
>>>>> their
>>>>> children's right not to be exposed to potential molestation.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The Super Rights of homosexual practitioners also squelch the right
>>>>> of
>>>>> others to freedom of speech. If a broadcaster opines that homosexual
>>>>> sex
>>>>> is
>>>>> dangerous, but a homosexual finds such speech 'offensive,' his Super
>>>>> Rights
>>>>> trump the broadcaster's freedom of speech and the broadcaster may be
>>>>> fined
>>>>> or imprisoned."
>>>>>
>>>>> The concept of hate crimes seems particularly reprehensible. If one of
>>>>> your
>>>>> (heterosexual) loved ones is the object of a despicable crime, the
>>>>> perpetrator would receive a lesser punishment than someone who
>>>>> committed
>>>>> the
>>>>> same act against someone who practices homosexual sex!
>>>>>
>>>>> +-+-+-
>>>>>
>>>>>    He has made clear to you, O man, what is good; and what is desired
>>>>> from
>>>>> you by the Lord; only doing what is
>>>>>  right, and loving mercy, and walking without pride before your God.
>>>>> Micah
>>>>> 6:8
>>>>> ~~~
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan D Wheeler
>>>>> awheeler at neb.rr.com
>>>>> IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
>>>>> Skype: redwheel1
>>>>> Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at
>>>>> www.theqonline.net
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lynnwhite51%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.net
>>>
>> Corey Cook
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/awheeler%40neb.rr.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1778 - Release Date: 11/9/2008
> 2:14 PM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>